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Best Way to Fix Pigments?

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  • Member since
    December 2019
Best Way to Fix Pigments?
Posted by Otto von Lindberg on Thursday, May 7, 2020 12:44 AM

Hi all, just finished applying some Vallejo Pigments to a 1:72 Panther and I was wondering, what is the best way to "fix" it in place? I have a 10 year old MIG Productions Pigment Fixer, but I was worried that applying it with a brush would remove the pigments/change its appearence which I'm already happy with.

 

Can I spray a layer of Testor's Dull Cote (spray can) in order to "fix" the pigments and otherwise finish my model?

 

Thank you.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Thursday, May 7, 2020 2:33 AM
Spraying the dullcoat over the pigments will diminish the pigments or make them disappear.The pigment fixer will also change the look.If you are happy with the look you achieved,then you are done,handle carefully and put it on the shelf and thats it.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, May 7, 2020 6:23 AM

For a heavy built up look i mix the pigments in water and then apply that way, once dry i brush off excess. After that i will brush on some lose pigments and leave at that.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Thursday, May 7, 2020 8:49 AM

If it is good, properly ground pigment it will not need to be sealed.  It is so fine it will settle into tiny imperfections in even gloss finishes.  Only strong soap and water or solvent will take it off.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:03 AM

Don Stauffer

If it is good, properly ground pigment it will not need to be sealed.  It is so fine it will settle into tiny imperfections in even gloss finishes.  Only strong soap and water or solvent will take it off.

That sounds good to me. What pigments behave as you say, Don?

I guess I've never tried a true pigment product, just sanded colored chalk back in the old days which I quickly abandoned for reasons mentioned above when trying to seal or fix it. Man, that was a long time ago.

-Greg

  • Member since
    August 2015
  • From: the redlands Fl
Posted by crown r n7 on Thursday, May 7, 2020 12:14 PM

when I use vallejo pigments on my tanks, I seal them with pigment binder by vallejo though my air brush. it reminds me of a super thin elmers glue works very well.

 

 

 Nick.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, May 7, 2020 12:50 PM

crown r n7

when I use vallejo pigments on my tanks, I seal them with pigment binder by vallejo though my air brush. it reminds me of a super thin elmers glue works very well.

 

Interesting. Those are two Vallejo products I've not tried. I wondered if their pigments might be some of the good ones.

-Greg

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, May 7, 2020 1:02 PM

These are REALLY good pigments.

https://www.bragdonent.com/weather.htm

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by modelmaker66 on Thursday, May 7, 2020 1:17 PM
Interesting. Those are two Vallejo products I've not tried. I wondered if their pigments might be some of the good ones.
 

Really, all pigments are tha same now. There is no better, they are aeven ans excellent. you can use tamiya x-20a thinner to set pigments. Use sparingly. you can also use enamel thinner also used sparingly.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, May 7, 2020 1:37 PM

modelmaker66
Interesting. Those are two Vallejo products I've not tried. I wondered if their pigments might be some of the good ones.
 

Really, all pigments are tha same now. There is no better, they are aeven ans excellent. you can use tamiya x-20a thinner to set pigments. Use sparingly. you can also use enamel thinner also used sparingly.

 

I disagree with everything stated above. I've had both good and bad products. Some go right on and can be carefully handled. Others won't stick at all and fall off.

Fixing pigment with a pray coating makes the model itself darker and minimizes the effect of the dusty look. I've seen good results with the Ammo pigment fixer when applied with a dropper around the edges of the pigment and allowed to flow into it by capillary action, then rubbed.

Everyone can have their own opinion, but the question was asked and the answers matter.

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    June 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Thursday, May 7, 2020 1:55 PM

I find that using a "Fixative", an artist product sprayed through my AB works well as it won't ruin the look if you go light. And it helps hold the pruduct on so you can dust it later and not worry about knocking anything off. These are all good techniques, to each his own. It boils down to what you prefer.

BK

On the bench:

Tamiya 1/35 M4A3E8 "Fury" with crew,

1/32 Kittyhawk Kingfisher,

1/35 Meng Panther Ausf A Early,

1/48 Pro Modeller P-51C "Boise Bee"

2022 Completed:

1/25 Revell 29 Highboy

1/48 Tamiya Sea Harrier

1/25 Revell 70 Boss 429 Mustang

1/48 Hasegawa D3A1 Type 99 Val

  • Member since
    August 2015
  • From: the redlands Fl
Posted by crown r n7 on Thursday, May 7, 2020 1:58 PM

here is one of the tanks that I used a pingment binder

 

 

 Nick.

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Friday, May 8, 2020 12:24 PM

Otto von Lindberg

...Can I spray a layer of Testor's Dull Cote (spray can) in order to "fix" the pigments and otherwise finish my model?... 

My answer is a qualified "yes".

As others have noted, applying a seal coat over pigments will change the way they look.

I use DullCote, too, and when I use weathering powders (ground pastel chalks, in my case.  I refuse to pay Mig or his former partners for something I can make myself) I account for the change in intensity that the seal coat causes.  I'll apply the color till it looks too intense, for example, knowing that the seat coat will knock the effect back.

However, I will also apply weathering powders after using DullCote to seal painted effects, knowing that, although there's nothing binding the powder to the surface, I also know that as long as the model won't be handled, nothing is going to rub the powder away.

Hope that helps!

Best regards,

Brad

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by modelmaker66 on Friday, May 8, 2020 4:43 PM

[quote user="GMorrison"] 

"I disagree with everything stated above. I've had both good and bad products. Some go right on and can be carefully handled. Others won't stick at all and fall off."

 

 

My comment was taken verbatum from Micael Rinaldi Tankart 3 revised 2nd printing this year. Cool

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, May 8, 2020 4:54 PM

Really, he says all pigments are the same? That's not been my experience, but oh well.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Monday, May 11, 2020 11:41 AM

modelmaker66

GMorrison
 

"I disagree with everything stated above. I've had both good and bad products. Some go right on and can be carefully handled. Others won't stick at all and fall off." 

My comment was taken verbatum from Micael Rinaldi Tankart 3 revised 2nd printing this year. Cool 

You should have included that citation, then.  The way you posted your comment suggested that it's your own experience.  If you happen to have had that experience, you might want to clarify that you have.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by modelmaker66 on Monday, May 11, 2020 3:22 PM

 Baron, don't tell how I should post my responses! Who are you the forum police? Mind you self. I'm sick and tired of you antagonizing everything I say here. I can post what and when I want and you have no authority over me. I don't know what I did to you or what aggravates you about me but I don't need you trying to ruin my experience or run me off. Won't happen.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, May 11, 2020 3:33 PM

I'm still curious to know why the now cited reference thinks all powders are the same.

And lay off Brad. He simply pointed out that when I questioned what seemed to be a declarative statement on your part, you hadn't cited your source. Not that it matters, if in fact the book says all powders are the same I still disagree.

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by modelmaker66 on Monday, May 11, 2020 3:41 PM

GMorrison

I'm still curious to know why the now cited reference thinks all powders are the same.

And lay off Brad. He simply pointed out that when I questioned what seemed to be a declarative statement on your part, you hadn't cited your source. Not that it matters, if in fact the book says all powders are the same I still disagree.

 

Bill

 

Then go buy the book and prove me wrong.

  • Member since
    July 2013
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by modelmaker66 on Monday, May 11, 2020 3:50 PM

Pigment is pigment. If you want good adhesion, you apply to a rough flat coat and if you want better adhesion you have to grind them in, not sprinkle like salt. For permanence you have to use fixer, or they may rub off or  fall off. That is the nature of ALL pigments and there are no exceptions.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, May 11, 2020 3:55 PM

modelmaker66

 

 
GMorrison

I'm still curious to know why the now cited reference thinks all powders are the same.

And lay off Brad. He simply pointed out that when I questioned what seemed to be a declarative statement on your part, you hadn't cited your source. Not that it matters, if in fact the book says all powders are the same I still disagree.

 

Bill

 

 

 

Then go buy the book and prove me wrong.

 

 

Not interested. Your statement, not mine.

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by modelmaker66 on Monday, May 11, 2020 4:46 PM

Chapter3 , page 32  2nd paragraph:

 

"I have used the ones from Mig productions for most of my career, times have changed and they are now sold under 502 abtielung from AK, and Vallejo, Wilder, Ammo and Lifecolor all make pigments as well..........To be fair the other products on the market work in the same basic manner and share the same basic results, so we have a lot of high quality options to source from."

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, May 11, 2020 7:55 PM

To the OP, I would buy new Ammo pigment fixer and apply it to a liberal amount of pigment but letting it soak the pigment through capillary action. There are a niumber of decent youtubes on that. Then rub off the excess. I have never done that but it looks reasonable. Stay tuned.

66 that quote is helpful. I think the view is that with a number of high quality pigmwents on the market, you can remove pigment quality as a parameter. I'll give you points there. I do need to buy better quality pigments as I have the perfect project coming up- Revell's 1/144 Flower Class corvette.

 

 

 

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 1:04 PM

modelmaker66

 Baron, don't tell how I should post my responses! Who are you the forum police? Mind you self. I'm sick and tired of you antagonizing everything I say here. I can post what and when I want and you have no authority over me. I don't know what I did to you or what aggravates you about me but I don't need you trying to ruin my experience or run me off. Won't happen. 

Nope, not the forum police, and I never thought for a moment that I have authority over you.  Only offering that suggestion because it would have made your response clearer, that you were talking about something you read, not something you experienced yourself.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

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