My Polly Scale Nightmare

Burt,

Sorry to hear about the bad time you had using Polly Scale Paint. A few questions... What was your paint to thinner (distilled water) ratio? What did you use as a retardant? Last, did try spraying windex or any glass cleaner that contains ammonia through the airbrush between sprayings to prevent tip clogging?

Reason I am asking is because I too use Polly Scale Paint and I also airbrush it but, I have not had the problems you did. Maybe I can offer some advice that will help prevent this problem next time.

Reply here or send me a PM and I'll see if I can help you with any advice or tips.

What thinning ratio did you use, and how much retarder did you use?

It sounds like maybe not enough solvent, and too much retarder. Retarders are strange critturs in that they slow down polymerization for a time—after which they accelerate it.

OR—did you add the retarder to the distilled water and mix that thoroughly before adding it to the paint? Adding retarder directly to the paint can, and usually does, create severe problems.

Also, always strain the paint before it goes into the airbrush cup. I prefer a 100 mesh screen, but a fine tea strainer will do. Some people use old nylons, but they are rather coarse mesh for hobby paints, especially if stretched.

As far as masking and airbrush technique, there is a "simple" (Ha!) answer: practice, practice, practice, experiment, practice, practice, practice, experiment, practice…

But no doubt you get my drift. 

Hey Ross & Rand,

Thank you both for the replies. I started my session with a totally clean brush. As far as my mixing is concerned, I thinned down the PS paint with the distilled water based on the "milk rule."  I then added about 4 drops of Liquitex Slow-dri fluid retarder straight into the paint and not into the water as suggested.

I don't know the exact amount of paint I had, but I would guess close to half a tablespoon or a little under. I did not use a mesh strainer, but mixed the paint up very well. To transfer the paint I actually dip a toothpick into the paint and drop it into my mixing container. A slow process, but very little waste and I doubt I picked up any chunks. Once in my mixing container, I mixed in the water and stirred like a demon. I then added my Liquitex as stated before.

MaxPower wrote:

I've never had good success with PollyScale paint. I get the worst tip dry ever. I am now the point with it I just avoid it all together. If I can't get the color I want in Tamiya I go with MM enamel.

Hey MaxPower,

I wish I could go with all Tamiya, but they refuse to make a line of their can paint in acrylics. For the navy blue and interm. blue, I chose Polly because it was available and I had used Polly clear flat with no issues. I'm determined to learn Polly not only for aircraft, but also for trains which I know they offer a lot of colors for.

Thanks

"about 4 drops of Liquitex Slow-dri fluid retarder straight into the paint"

I should add that I rarely use retarder with Polly Scale—don't seem to need it. As for tip-dry, I do two things:

1. I put the protective cap back on the brush when I set it down for a few minutes, and I put a small wad of cotton or paper towel deep in the cap, saturated with Windex.
2. I keep a cotton swab saturated with Windex handy while I'm painting. This gets used to clean the paint off the tip before it becomes a problem.
   

Burt,

I also use a medicine dropper or pippets to measure out paint for airbrushing. I general use a 3:1:1 ratio, 3 Drops paint...1 drop retarder, 1 drop thinner. I mixed up retarder and thinner first then add paint and mix it well until its the consistancy of skim milk. Do NOT shake your mixing jar to mix the paint and thinner together STIR IT well before adding it to the paint cup. Also I keep a dropper, Q-tips and some Windex in a small cup near by to clean the tip and spray through the airbrush to clean out left behind paint between sprayings. I rarely have the tip clog up doing this. Another good practice is to hang up airbrush with tip pointing up after cleaning tip and spraying out residue paint and let dry between spraying. When done break down your airbrush and give it a good cleaning.

Triarius wrote:

"about 4 drops of Liquitex Slow-dri fluid retarder straight into the paint" Whoa! There's the problem!!! For that amount of paint, you need about 1 drop, and a small one at that!!!! I generally use a blunt syringe tip on a dropping bottle, and the size of the drop is about half what you get from most eyedroppers. If I seem to need more, a second drop of the same size will get used in the next batch. If your retarder comes with a dispensing cap (like the one's on a squeeze bottle of mustard) don't use it for the amount of paint you are using. It is meant to dispense the right amounts for painting on canvas with artists acrylics. Use an eyedropper at least.

Hey Ross,

So you're saying that 1 small drop from an eyedropper is all I need to add to my water first before mixing it into my paint? Or it sounds like I might not even need to use the Liquitex from what you said in the other post. Unfortunately my airbrush didn't come with any protective cap. I usually just set it in the stand (photo here) which covers the opening, but does not rest in any windex. So should I just try the distilled water by itself next time?

Air Master Modeler wrote:

Burt, I also use a medicine dropper or pippets to measure out paint for airbrushing. I general use a 3:1:1 ratio, 3 Drops paint...1 drop retarder, 1 drop thinner. I mixed up retarder and thinner first then add paint and mix it well until its the consistancy of skim milk. Do NOT shake your mixing jar to mix the paint and thinner together STIR IT well before adding it to the paint cup. Also I keep a dropper, Q-tips and some Windex in a small cup near by to clean the tip and spray through the airbrush to clean out left behind paint between sprayings. I rarely have the tip clog up doing this. Another good practice is to hang up airbrush with tip pointing up after cleaning tip and spraying out residue paint and let dry between spraying. When done break down your airbrush and give it a good cleaning.

Hey Rand,

I think I'm a little confused on your ratio. Maybe you can help me understand. Ross was saying above that he only uses 1 drop for about the amount of paint I was using, but if I did 1 drop per every 3 drops like you state, I probably would have had about 20 drops of retarder. And when you say thinner you are meaning distilled water correct? As for your cleaning method, I always clean my brush after each session. Also, there was no way I could clean out my brush during my "nightmare" because it was happening all with the same paint color. Maybe I should have been cleaning the tip every couple of sprays? Whatever the case, it would be nice to be able to mix Polly without having to worry. The Tamiya acrylics are great when thinned with x20. I'm just hoping for the same you know. 

Centurion wrote:

Air Master Modeler wrote: Burt, I also use a medicine dropper or pippets to measure out paint for airbrushing. I general use a 3:1:1 ratio, 3 Drops paint...1 drop retarder, 1 drop thinner. I mixed up retarder and thinner first then add paint and mix it well until its the consistancy of skim milk. Do NOT shake your mixing jar to mix the paint and thinner together STIR IT well before adding it to the paint cup. Also I keep a dropper, Q-tips and some Windex in a small cup near by to clean the tip and spray through the airbrush to clean out left behind paint between sprayings. I rarely have the tip clog up doing this. Another good practice is to hang up airbrush with tip pointing up after cleaning tip and spraying out residue paint and let dry between spraying. When done break down your airbrush and give it a good cleaning. Hey Rand, I think I'm a little confused on your ratio. Maybe you can help me understand. Ross was saying above that he only uses 1 drop for about the amount of paint I was using, but if I did 1 drop per every 3 drops like you state, I probably would have had about 20 drops of retarder. And when you say thinner you are meaning distilled water correct? As for your cleaning method, I always clean my brush after each session. Also, there was no way I could clean out my brush during my "nightmare" because it was happening all with the same paint color. Maybe I should have been cleaning the tip every couple of sprays? Whatever the case, it would be nice to be able to mix Polly without having to worry. The Tamiya acrylics are great when thinned with x20. I'm just hoping for the same you know.

Burt,

Sorry about the confusion. I use a medicine dropper that measures up to 3 teapoons when I fill the whole thing (3tps or 3ml ) with paint or thinner I count that as 1 Drop. This way I get an acurate measure of paint to thinner ratio. So since I use a siphon feed jar with my airbrush I measure 3 dropper fulls of paint, 1 dropper full thinner (distilled water), and about 0.5 ml of retarder and that fills up half the siphon jar and that is all I need to get started. Now as for the retarder, I only use 0.5 ml or about 2 actual drops to the paint because too much takes the paint longer to dry and causes it to pool up in places you dont want it to. Also less is better because you dont want the paint to sit wet to long. You just add enough retarder to slow the drying time but allow it to dry enough to handle it within 1 and 1/2 hours or less so you can continue working. I can usually handle the model within an hour after airbrushing it.

Hope this clears up the confusion.

Hey Guys,

I tried just straight distilled water this time and the paint dried up so quick that I didn't even get to start the paint session. I was so frustrated that I just decided to use the Tamiya X20A thinner and it worked the entire session without any dry tip. I probably could have mixed the ratio better so there wasn't so much thinner, but this seems to be the only way I can get Polly Scale to airbrush without it drying out. It doesn't make sense because on the bottle it says to thin with water.

Ross, I know you said that you don't use alchol or thinners, but I'm just not having success with water. I will continue to test different thinning methods, but for now I've got to stick with the Tamiya thinner.

I should pay more attention to avatars: You're in San Diego—hot and dry, or at least dry even if you have air conditioning. Here in the muggid midwest, it never gets that dry, and rarely gets that hot.

Other than that, I have no idea why ordinary DI water isn't working for you, even with retarder.

Triarius wrote:

I should pay more attention to avatars: You're in San Diego—hot and dry, or at least dry even if you have air conditioning. Here in the muggid midwest, it never gets that dry, and rarely gets that hot. Other than that, I have no idea why ordinary DI water isn't working for you, even with retarder.

Hey Ross,

Yeah you would think that the distilled water would do the trick. It really makes no sense. The weather might have something to do with it, but it's hard to tell. I even tried to keep the tip in a soaked paper towel. I litterly sprayed once and got dry tip and then nothing would come out. I'm sure water works and I'm just having bad luck. 

Anyhow, so after last nights paint session with the Tamiya thinner mixed into the Polly it was spraying ok as I said earlier. I looked at it this morning and the paint looked very uneven. It was like having dark and light areas of the same color paint all over. I'm wondering if the Tamiya thinner had anything to do with this? I did mix in quite a bit of it. 

Could be compatibility problems, but it could also be that you used too much reducing solvent and got separation by sedimentation in the cup.

You are mixing in a separate container, I assume, and straining the paint before putting it in the air brush cup?

As I've said, I find Polly Scale to be the easiest paint to airbrush…

How, and how long, are you mixing the Polly Scale paint before you reduce it for airbrushing? Polly Scale tends to "settle hard" when stored. I generally stir for quite awhile (2 to 5 minutes) before I consider the paint ready for dilution. 

Triarius wrote:

Could be compatibility problems, but it could also be that you used too much reducing solvent and got separation by sedimentation in the cup. You are mixing in a separate container, I assume, and straining the paint before putting it in the air brush cup? As I've said, I find Polly Scale to be the easiest paint to airbrush… How, and how long, are you mixing the Polly Scale paint before you reduce it for airbrushing? Polly Scale tends to "settle hard" when stored. I generally stir for quite awhile (2 to 5 minutes) before I consider the paint ready for dilution.

I mix the paint probably the same amount of time (2 to 5 min.) until I can see there are no more chunks. I then mix the paint in a separate container with thinner before dumping it into the airbrush cup. The only thing I haven't been able to try is straining the paint. I supposed I could try that next. Any idea where to get a paint strainer? Micro-Mark maybe? And you could be right that I used too much thinner.

http://www.micromark.com/STRAINER-FUNNELS-SET-OF-3,8343.html

I bought a set of these, and they are my nre best friend!  Knock on wood, but no clogs since I started using them!

Chris

Hey Ross,

I contaced Testors to see what they did to thin their Polly paints and this is the response I got.

I generally use #50496 thinner with POLLY Scale.  Absent this, add a
few drops of dishwashing detergent to several ounces of water to
create your own thinning agent.

My trick: add POLLY Scale *CLEAR COAT* (gloss, satin or flat) to
thinned POLLY Scale paint to augment airbrushing control.  Clear coat
restores the resin binder, improving application by airbrush.

I mix POLLY Scale paint and gloss (1:1) -- with a bit of
#50496 thinner or detergent water per color cup to improve nozzle flow.

What do you think about this? Have you used the Testors acrylic thinner or any other combination that they stated, ie. soap or clear coat.

And thanks Chris for the link, I'll check it out.

I too am having a really hard time spraying polly scale.  I thin with distilled water, added a drop of dishwashing liquid to my mix before thinning, tried adding polly scale matte sealer, nothing keeps me spraying consistantly.

 I am using a badger 100LG with medium needle and tip, shooting at 15-ish PSI, and I live in Washington State, so it is neither hot nor dry in my garage.

I am also close to giving up on pollyscale despite loving the color choices.  I have great results with Tamiya, but have no local dealers, so have to mail order them now.  Also like goldens airbrush line, but limited color choices.  Vallejo Model air sprays like a dream, but again, no local dealer, and it is expensive!

I'd love to find a solution to all this!

Chris

Hey Chris,

I am determined to figure this out. I've heard a lot of great stuff about Polly Scale and have gotten the clean flat to spray just fine. As I'm sure you've read through this post I've tried a lot of stuff and even a couple of the vets on here chimed in with some great advice. I thought at first it was my airbrush, but this stuff doesn't happen when I spray Tamiya. I'm spraying with the Iwata HP-CS which I find to be a great brush, so I can't blame it on that. I'm starting to paint trains as well, so using Tamiya seems out of question. Can you imagine all the mixing I would be doing just to get a brick red or big sky blue? I've already bothched my F4U Corsair that I've been working on for months all because of PS. And you would think that the Testors thinner would work. I mean come on, it's their own brand and it doesn't even retard the paint.

By the way, I use to live close to your location up there in WA. Have you checked out Hobbytown by PLU? Not the best selection, but it's an option. I don't think they carry Tamiya, but you might have them order for you so you don't have to pay shipping. Anyways, hopefully we can figure out this Polly crap.

The really peculiar thing is that you aren't having tip-dry problems with Tamiya, which is notorious for it, and you are with Polly Scale.

Any idea how old the paint is? 

Triarius wrote:

The really peculiar thing is that you aren't having tip-dry problems with Tamiya, which is notorious for it, and you are with Polly Scale. Any idea how old the paint is?

The age point is intresting. last night I was spraying an FW 190 with PS paint. One jar was several years old, the other new. The new paint sprayed a lot better. This was with a Badger Renegade Velocity.

That said both were still problematic, unlike the Tamiya I usually use. I was thinning with distilled water at abut 15% as recommended. I also strained the paint.

I didn't use dish soap but will try that tonight. 

scollen wrote:

The age point is intresting. last night I was spraying an FW 190 with PS paint. One jar was several years old, the other new. The new paint sprayed a lot better. This was with a Badger Renegade Velocity. That said both were still problematic, unlike the Tamiya I usually use. I was thinning with distilled water at abut 15% as recommended. I also strained the paint. I didn't use dish soap but will try that tonight.

That's great that you were able to test both, but unfortunate that it gave you the same result. It's sad to hear that the strainer didn't even work. I just ordered some online in hopes that this would solve my problem. One of the guys over at the Trains.com forums recommended this link to read about PS. There are some good points in there, but haven't tried them yet.

Ok guys I finally got my strainer in the mail today and was hoping this would solve the problem. I've followed all the steps, I've thinned the paint as recommended using the Testors acrylic thinner 1 part to 4, my airbrush is completely clean, I've strained the paint using a micromesh grade 100 strainer, and yet I still have issues spraying.

It's really odd because I will open the airbrush a little to let the air out and paint will start to flow, but then within a couple of seconds nothing comes out. I continue to hold the needle in the same position and the paint just stops coming out. If I rock the needle back and forth a little paint will start to flow again, but then eventually it just stops again. Something is stopping the paint, but I can't tell what it could be if I have strained it. The thinner should help with any dry tip and so I can't imagine it's that. What else could it be?

I should add that I had no issues spraying PS clear gloss without thinning.