Beginner Airbrushes

brickshooter

IMO, the Chinese companies that make the cheap knockoffs have very poor quality control.  That means that they do not check for defects.   So You're out of luck if you happen to get a brush from a poor batch.

If you're experienced, then you can tune up the brush yourself.   But if you're a beginner and are still trying to figure out the cleaning steps, then you are really in trouble.

So IMO, the cheap knockoffs are actually better for experience users who can fix the defects at home.   Beginners need a simple to use, and practically indestructible brush. 

The cheap knockoff airbrushes only make sense if you are new to modeling and no sure if you will stay with it or airbrushing. You get what you paid for.

The two airbrushes that work perfectly out of the box are the Iwata HP-CS and the H&S Evolution. The trigger is silky smooth and gives long, linear control of paint. The feeling of precision is unparallel by other airbrushes I have. From both personal experience and reading reviews, some other name brand airbrush control are tight, but not necessarily smooth from factory. Some break-in and lubricating oil can fix that. Again, it is the job for a experienced user.

I have two knock-offs. A PowerCat 203 that is a Iwata HP-C Plus clone and a PowerCat 800 that is a Badger 155 clone. The trigger is loose and lack the precision feel. Both of them work fine out of the box and so far. (I used them only for testing.) The PowerCat 203 can do pretty fine line. The PowerCat 800 has a dual taper needle and mimic the quick paint release characterisitics of the 155. Not too bad for the prices that I paid, $36 and $16 respectively.

If you are in modeling for the long haul, pay the extra for the better airbrush. The feel and control of the AB is priceless and allow you to build better skill quicker. Just my 2 cents.

I think that there is a big risk that once a modeler new to airbrushing has a bad experience with the cheap airbrushes, he may simply quit because of the bad experience.

For You and I, something such as a hook needle is no big deal to fix.   For the beginner, he's not even going to know it's a hook needle.   And he'll come to the incorrect conclusion that airbrushing is something only experienced modelers could do.

So we'll have to agree to disagree on whether the beginner should start on a cheap knockoff.

But we could agree that the better path is to pay extra for the better airbrush.

Normally I would agree, however in this case the OP purchased an Excel Tools clone of the Badger 250, and virtually ANY airbrush will be a step in the right direction. I can't personally speak on behalf of the airbrushes I linked to on the Everything Airbrush website, but they look mighty similar to the brushes available from Airbrush City in the US. I do know a person who is very experienced who bought one on a whim and his report was that it was certainly a usable airbrush.

Given that the OP is located in the UK (disclosed elsewhere), the "brand" name airbrushes are considerably more than we can buy them in the US. For instance a Badger that sells for $75 here, sells for £100 there, effectively double the price.

Well that's true.  There's a whole range of knockoffs.    The ones that come from reputable retailers are good because retailers don't want to torpedo their names nor spend most of their times handling returns.    BearAir is one company who carries decent knockoffs.   As I understand it, their Peak line is very good.

I guess I was giving caution to the ebay sellers with wharehouses in China.   Sometimes the prices are so seductive, it overcomes people's judgment.

Define knockoff? To me, a knockoff is a illegitimate copy, a fake. Like $10 Ray Bans and so on. The Peak isn´t that. In a sense not the Fengdha chinese airbrushes either. At least not more than most other brands.

Good and bad quality is something different. A lot of the chinese airbrushes are made from inferior material, and at lower tolerances than the bigger brands. I´ve had a few of the BD-line airbrushes, and even if they work, sometimes even quite good, they are definitly not as well made as most japanese airbrushes.  

brickshooter

Well that's true.  There's a whole range of knockoffs.    The ones that come from reputable retailers are good because retailers don't want to torpedo their names nor spend most of their times handling returns.    BearAir is one company who carries decent knockoffs.   As I understand it, their Peak line is very good.

I guess I was giving caution to the ebay sellers with wharehouses in China.   Sometimes the prices are so seductive, it overcomes people's judgment.

I agree with you on most points. People should start with a good quality, internal mix, dual action airbrush.

If he is not sure about his long term interest in modeling and not willing to pump down $80 or more, I would suggest a "house brand" internal mix, dual action airbrush instead of an cheap name brand external mix AB.

I will not call the BearAir Peak C-5 a knock-off. It sell for about the same price as the Iwata Eclipse or H&S Evolution and has the quality to match them. It is supposed to be made in Japan and parts compatible with Iwata HP-C and Richpen 113C.

denstore

 In a sense not the Fengdha chinese airbrushes either.

What is a Fengdha?

Fengda, Fenhua (or how they spell it) makes a lot of the chinese clones. I thing that all the BD-line is made by Fengda.

http://www.cnbida.com/fengda.html

I couldn't find a Fengdha, but I did find a Fengda!

This has got to be the source for both Airbrush City and the cheap ones at Everything Airbrush in the UK.

Killjoy

denstore:

 In a sense not the Fengdha chinese airbrushes either.

 

What is a Fengdha?

They are the biggest producer of knock-off airbrushes and compressors of the US market. You will find their products in many house brand merchandise but the airbrush seller will not admit it.

denstore

Define knockoff? To me, a knockoff is a illegitimate copy, a fake. Like $10 Ray Bans and so on. The Peak isn´t that. In a sense not the Fengdha chinese airbrushes either. At least not more than most other brands.

Good and bad quality is something different. A lot of the chinese airbrushes are made from inferior material, and at lower tolerances than the bigger brands. I´ve had a few of the BD-line airbrushes, and even if they work, sometimes even quite good, they are definitly not as well made as most japanese airbrushes.  

To me a knockoff is a copy.   It could be a licensed copy, which would make it legitimate.  Or it could be an illegal copy.  

Then you must know what is the original, and in the case of the Peak C-5, it isn´t as simple as some people seem to think. I´m basing this on that more and more often I see people stating that this and that is a copy of the Iwata similar model, when Iwata isn´t more the original than anything else. The only real original Iwata design that I know of, is the Eclipse (which in my honest opinion is a fabulous airbrush).

I don´t want to restart the "which airbrush was first" war, but to sum it up, all of todays airbrushes are more or less copies of older designs. There´s not much happening in airbrush development.

So, to me, the use of "knock off" is more of a degrading term. It´s implying that it is copied from something better or original. In general, this might be correct when it comes to a lot of the chinese made airbrushes. Not that they all are bad, but they really don´t hold up to the japanese, european or american brands. But they don´t cost as much either. And the main difference is in things that can be corrected or enhanced. The needles need polishing (or even better replacment), and the chrome isn´t as good as in more expensive brands. One of the things that I feel immediately is the creepy feel of the main spring, and the usually rough feel of the trigger. But with a polished needle and trigger parts, a new spring and maybe a new preset back handle, they can perform just as good as any other airbrush.

Do I recommend the Fengda airbrushes to beginners? Usually not. Why? Mostly because there are enough possible pitfalls in the beginning stage of airbrushing anyway, and you really don´t need to be unsure if the equipment is working with or against you.

denstore

Do I recommend the Fengda airbrushes to beginners? Usually not. Why? Mostly because there are enough possible pitfalls in the beginning stage of airbrushing anyway, and you really don´t need to be unsure if the equipment is working with or against you.

This is the universal dilemma, that applies just about anything: Beginners need easy-to-use hazzle-free gear that just works. The problem is, of course, that the gear that actually satisfy those requirements - no matter what kind of activity we are talking about - is expensive. Not necessarily top-of-the-line, but above average.

The inexpensive stuff might be tweaked and modified into a working unit if one knows what to do and how to do it, but beginners just don't know those kinds of things. In effect, the difference between a cheap knock-off (whatever a 'knock-off' might be) and a more expensive unit, is that with the expensive brand some expert with the manufacturer have already done all the tweaks and adjustments the user must do with the knock-off brand.

In the end, it becomes a question of how much you value your own time: Do you accept the hazzle and mods needed to tweak the inexpensive unit onto something useful? Or do you pay the $$$ difference and get a unit that works straight out of the box?  

DoC

Dr. Coffee

The inexpensive stuff might be tweaked and modified into a working unit if one knows what to do and how to do it, but beginners just don't know those kinds of things. In effect, the difference between a cheap knock-off (whatever a 'knock-off' might be) and a more expensive unit, is that with the expensive brand some expert with the manufacturer have already done all the tweaks and adjustments the user must do with the knock-off brand.

That is a critical point and may be the "make or break" factor for a beginner just starting out airbrushing.

Several years ago, out of curiosity, I picked up a cheap Badger 150 knock off "look alike" from an auto parts supplier. When I took it out of the box, the air cap/regulator simply fell off. When I drew back on the trigger, the needle didn't move, as the lock nut hadn't been tightened sufficiently.

Had I been unfamiliar with airbrushes, as a beginner may be, I may not have been able to make it work, as there were no instructions included.  All it took was a few turns on the lock nut and screwing the regulator back into place. I was able to do this because I was familiar with the general design/layout of the airbrush, but could a person who had just picked up an airbrush for the first time? Perhaps not. The supplier was an auto parts store - could they have helped? Probably not.

Would a person who had bought this as their first airbrush been frustrated? More than likely.

Another thing to consider when looking at the cheap "knock-off" brushes on Ebay and the like, is the availability of replacement parts. If you break or bend something and can't get a replacement part for it, then it becomes a paperweight. Sure, it may have only cost $30.00 but it's still a $30.00 paperweight.

Phil_H

Another thing to consider when looking at the cheap "knock-off" brushes on Ebay and the like, is the availability of replacement parts.

That has probably been my biggest concern, and the reason I have never bought any of the knock-off brushes.  I am sure some of the Iwata look-alikes would perform reasonably well, but I like customer service (preferably in English,) and the ability to get a new part of something breaks or gets too worn. 

For my money, it's name brand all the way for those reasons alone, even if the perormance was identical!

Chris

denstore

Then you must know what is the original, and in the case of the Peak C-5, it isn´t as simple as some people seem to think. I´m basing this on that more and more often I see people stating that this and that is a copy of the Iwata similar model, when Iwata isn´t more the original than anything else. The only real original Iwata design that I know of, is the Eclipse (which in my honest opinion is a fabulous airbrush).

I don´t want to restart the "which airbrush was first" war, but to sum it up, all of todays airbrushes are more or less copies of older designs. There´s not much happening in airbrush development.

So, to me, the use of "knock off" is more of a degrading term. It´s implying that it is copied from something better or original. In general, this might be correct when it comes to a lot of the chinese made airbrushes. Not that they all are bad, but they really don´t hold up to the japanese, european or american brands. But they don´t cost as much either. And the main difference is in things that can be corrected or enhanced. The needles need polishing (or even better replacment), and the chrome isn´t as good as in more expensive brands. One of the things that I feel immediately is the creepy feel of the main spring, and the usually rough feel of the trigger. But with a polished needle and trigger parts, a new spring and maybe a new preset back handle, they can perform just as good as any other airbrush.

Do I recommend the Fengda airbrushes to beginners? Usually not. Why? Mostly because there are enough possible pitfalls in the beginning stage of airbrushing anyway, and you really don´t need to be unsure if the equipment is working with or against you.

I'm practical.

I just need a short generic name to describe a brush that looks like and sprays like an Iwata, but costs less.  If you have a good one, I'll gladly use it so that we could talk about the brush itself without getting sidetracked.    If not, I'll just use the term "knockoff" since everyone knows what that word implies.

brickshooter

I'm practical.

I just need a short generic name to describe a brush that looks like and sprays like an Iwata, but costs less.  If you have a good one, I'll gladly use it so that we could talk about the brush itself without getting sidetracked.    If not, I'll just use the term "knockoff" since everyone knows what that word implies.

I have yet to find one like that yet. You usually can get 2 of the 3, but NOT all 3. Example:

The BearAir Peak C-5 "looks like and sprays like an Iwata", but it cost about the same as an Iwata. Even the parts are interchangable. I will not call it a knock-off.

The FengHua BD-208 "looks like an Iwata MICRON, but costs a lot less", but it DOES NOT spray like an Iwata. It is sold by many different brand names in the US. It is a knock-off of the Iwata. It can spray pretty fine lines when new, but does not have the feel and finish of an Iwata. The trigger feels loose and lacks precision. The needle feels soft and the tip dings and body bends too easily. The BD-208 needle has a different diameter than the Iwata needle which makes it impossible to substitute. You get what you paid for.

What about this one -  PremiAir G35

It's made by the UK company "The Airbrush Company" own brand, PremiAir, you can buy spares for it and it has some very good reviews.

As far as I am aware "The Airbrush Company" brushes are re-branded Sparmax items -  The G35 being the Sparmax SP-35.

It looks to be available in the US for about $70, & I would assume being Sparmax it would be reasonable quality - if their compresors are anything to go by.

They offer service and parts, for £40, you aren't going to find a better alternative.

Alex Shaw

What about this one -  PremiAir G35

It's made by the UK company "The Airbrush Company" own brand, PremiAir, you can buy spares for it and it has some very good reviews.

I've been using a Sparmax SP-35C for 4 years now. The PremiAir G35 is, I believe, essentially the same brush, though it has a "cut away" handle where mine has a standard handle with preset needle stop.

Nicely finished, nicely weighted. The needle taper is quite gentle, so it has a very linear trigger response. The only real downside that I have found is the "throw" of the trigger combined with the flat shape of the trigger button top can cause finger cramps when painting for extended periods.

Man you guys in the UK take it in the can on airbrush prices!  Iwata eclipse cs for 129 pounds, that's $197.00 US!  Those go for $119.00 here! 77 pounds!  Wow, that's harsh!

LOL Killjoy,

Over here in Oz, the Exlipse CS (siphon feed) runs around $250.00 -  $270.00 AUD, which is equivalent to about $230.00 - $250.00USD

Killjoy

Man you guys in the UK take it in the can on airbrush prices!  Iwata eclipse cs for 129 pounds, that's $197.00 US!  Those go for $119.00 here! 77 pounds!  Wow, that's harsh!

Yes, it is called protectionism. In England, you pay extra for Japanese or American airbrushes. So they buy European. See this Revell Master Class Compressor at 175 pounds, and

Harder & Steenbeck Infinity 2-in-1 at 190 pounds.  You cannot do any better in the US.

Phil_H

LOL Killjoy,

Over here in Oz, the Exlipse CS (siphon feed) runs around $250.00 -  $270.00 AUD, which is equivalent to about $230.00 - $250.00USD

Ok, since my Mom is in Oz, I do know that things are more expensive, but that's just rediculous.  I wasn't joking about finding a friend in the states, paypal him the money for the brush plus shipping, and have him mail it to you marked 'gift.'

Save you a ton-o-cash!

$89.00 eclipse BCS (siphon feed) + $13.45 USPS priority mail 6-10 days= $102.45 US.  Comes to about $110.00 Australian.  Toss in a 20 spot for the guy doing the work for ya, you're still $100.00 ahead!

Shoot, I'd do it for ya just to protest the ludicrous nature of import and excise taxes!

Chris

Killjoy

 

 I wasn't joking about finding a friend in the states, paypal him the money for the brush plus shipping, and have him mail it to you marked 'gift.'

Save you a ton-o-cash!

...but could get you into a pile-o-trouble. If customs were to find out - and they do tend to scan most of the parcels that pass international borders - you might find yourself in the recieving end of a tax-evation indightment.  

And there are those tiny details that cause all kinds of trouble. I visited the US some time in the mid '90s, and bought a Sony Discman over there. In my home country the discman would have cost me some USD 300, while I picked one up for $200 in Denver. When I returned cack home, I did not declare it in the customs, which saved me 20% ($40) in taxes. Which also prevented me from insuring the thing, since it had not been imported legally to the country.

The discman also came with a power adaptor, that was intended for the US power grid. Both the grid power and wall connectors were different where I intended to use the discman, so I had to cash out another $50 or so for a replacement power adaptor.

In the end I had only saved the import tax and was unable to insure the discman. Not a very good deal even if an insurance has not been necessary. I am still using the same discman, some 15 years later.

One should be very cautious about buying stuff in a different part of the world than where it is intended to be used. Airbrushes don't rely on electrical power, but there is a chance that screw connectors etc are different for different parts of the world. Don't be surprised if units sold in America use screw connectors in imperial units, while the same brand sells the same models in Europe with metric screw connectors.

If one falls into that kind of trap, one might very quickly find oneself in a very frustrating, and expensive, wait for all kinds of obscure adaptors and connectors.

DoC   

brickshooter

 

I'm practical.

I just need a short generic name to describe a brush that looks like and sprays like an Iwata, but costs less.  If you have a good one, I'll gladly use it so that we could talk about the brush itself without getting sidetracked.    If not, I'll just use the term "knockoff" since everyone knows what that word implies.

It´s mostly that Iwata makes quite a lot of airbrushes, that perform in different ways, so to say that you want a common word for something that performs like a Iwata is like saying that you want something that performs like a Chrysler. And when you really wanted to say that you wanted something like a midend american car, people will wonder why you insist on saying Chrysler.

Iwata isn´t more the original than anything else. Their airbrushes are as much copies (knock-offs?) as anyone elses.

denstore

brickshooter:

I'm practical.

I just need a short generic name to describe a brush that looks like and sprays like an Iwata, but costs less.  If you have a good one, I'll gladly use it so that we could talk about the brush itself without getting sidetracked.    If not, I'll just use the term "knockoff" since everyone knows what that word implies.

It´s mostly that Iwata makes quite a lot of airbrushes, that perform in different ways, so to say that you want a common word for something that performs like a Iwata is like saying that you want something that performs like a Chrysler. And when you really wanted to say that you wanted something like a midend american car, people will wonder why you insist on saying Chrysler.

Iwata isn´t more the original than anything else. Their airbrushes are as much copies (knock-offs?) as anyone elses.

Den, the term "knock-offs" has special meaning in American language. It has nothing to do with Iwata or Chrysler. It usually applies to counterfiet goods that looks like a name brand product, sells for a lot less, but does not have the quality of the name brand. I saw it used most often with women's hand bags. I don't know who first applied it to name brand airbrush look-alike. The Iwata look was copied the most because they have the quality reputation. The airbrush "knock-offs" purposedly make the nozzle and needle dimension different from their copied original to avoid legal problem of copy rights.

I think that it is not a bad use of the term "knock-off" for those name brand look-alike, but low quality airbrushes.

keilau

Den, the term "knock-offs" has special meaning in American language. It has nothing to do with Iwata or Chrysler. It usually applies to counterfiet goods that looks like a name brand product, sells for a lot less, but does not have the quality of the name brand. I saw it used most often with women's hand bags. I don't know who first applied it to name brand airbrush look-alike. The Iwata look was copied the most because they have the quality reputation. The airbrush "knock-offs" purposedly make the nozzle and needle dimension different from their copied original to avoid legal problem of copy rights.

I think that it is not a bad use of the term "knock-off" for those name brand look-alike, but low quality airbrushes.

I know what knock off mean. The thing I´m reacting to is that people here and in a lot of other modelling communities seem to think that all airbrushes that looks like a Iwata HP-C is a knock off. Problem is that other brands as BB Rich, Richpen or Olympos has been making airbrushes that look like this as long or even longer than Iwata.

Sure, there´s no question that companies like Fengdha makes cheap copies of the "general airbrush" design that has been popular in Japan for at least 30-40 years. Probably a lot longer. But a lot of other companies, like Grex and Sparmax has also picked up that design, and it doesn´t make them more knock-offs than  Iwata.

denstore

keilau:

It usually applies to counterfiet goods that looks like a name brand product, sells for a lot less, but does not have the quality of the name brand.

The thing I´m reacting to is that people here and in a lot of other modelling communities seem to think that all airbrushes that looks like a Iwata HP-C is a knock off.

BB Rich, Richpen or Olympos has been making airbrushes that look like this .........Grex and Sparmax has also picked up that design, and it doesn´t make them more knock-offs than  Iwata.

Den, your concern is NOT warranted.  I have not seen people called BB Rich, Richpen, Olympos, Grex or Sparmax a "knock-off" here or at other airbrush sites that I visited. If there were a few incidents of misinformed people, they usually got corrected pretty quickly.  People are intellegent enough to use "knock-off" for airbrushes that "looks like an Iwata, costs a lot less, but does not spray like one" only.

I will be very interested in seeing at least one post which would call BB Rich, Richpen, Olympos, Grex or Sparmax a "knock-off". It is just my curiosity to see in what context that was stated. I don't mean to argue.