Airbrush buying guide

"I don't think he meant they were not good quality, as he was referring to how they came about into the market hastily."

I follow you now, Mike. Very impressive collection of brushes from a very knowledgable and talented individual. I've read his commentaries and noted his posts on other forums. No doubt he is devoted to the Thayer Chandler line, though. But..... that as you imply, is an aspect we all carry. An extreme to this is the reason I own nothing but Fords and would rather push one then to drive a Chevy...LOL! Not really but you get the point.

QUOTE: Originally posted by John L [brAn extreme to this is the reason I own nothing but Fords and would rather push one then to drive a Chevy...LOL! Not really but you get the point.

I hear you John.
I own a 1998 F-150 X-cab and although this is my first Ford pickup I think I will be a regular customer as I love it.

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by plum1030 Did I get a dud that I need to return?

I doubt it. You are just used to the Iwata which is smoother and has tighter tolerances, but then again it costs about 33% more than the Omni so you would expect something for that much money. I don't think the end results are worth the extra money spent but that is up to the individual. I personally would rather spend my money on products made in America where American families are benefitted and not a country overseas that steals other countries designs and ideas and makes them into their own.
But that is another story.

Mike

Did some practice and a quick test. I used windsor and newton black ink thinned with alcohol as a test. sprayed the same mixture through my sotar, iwata and omni. I usually don't do fine lines with my iwata. I found that with the ink at least the omni sprays very well. atomizes as well as the iwata and better than the sotar with the same mixture. I was able to spray finer lines with no effort with the iwata and sotar. I don't think many need to spray this small though. I found the sticky trigger on the omni didn't cause the problems I thought it would. Cleaning was frustrating on the omni compared to the iwata and even the sotar. Will try enamels next.

Top line Iwata, second line Omni Third line sotar.

http://www.plummersmines.com/modelling/brushtest.jpg

PS watchout if I get on my soapbox about the disappearance of the American work ethic. I've always worked to do the best job I can and I will not support some lazy videogame playing retard who has no interest in bettering him/herself. The most confident person is the one who is ignorant of what he/she has left to learn.

QUOTE: Originally posted by plum1030 PS watchout if I get on my soapbox about the disappearance of the American work ethic. I've always worked to do the best job I can and I will not support some lazy videogame playing retard who has no interest in bettering him/herself. The most confident person is the one who is ignorant of what he/she has left to learn.

So because you disagree with the ethics of some American workers, which I agree is true, that means that you won't buy American made products?

Mike

Plum1030,

Hopefully this will answer your questions as to why the Sotar, Badger and T&C Omni all look similar as well as why American made products from company's like Badger are worth supporting.

First, let me say that I will be the first to say that "The Factory" in Japan does some very nice and precise machine work and builds the best machined airbrushes in the world except for the Sotar. "The Factory" is an independent entity that builds airbrushes and sprayguns for Iwata, Olympos, Richpen, Peak, and many others. Iwata Airbrushes in the US are distributed exclusively by Medea out of Portland Oregon. "Medea": A greek goddess best known for eating her own children...now there's a nice thought! Medea and Anest Iwata contrary to popular belief, are not related. At any rate, Iwata is a well built airbrush and they work great until they fail for the first time, and the failure is usuallly catastrophic and requires factory reconditioning. The replacement parts cost is three to four times higher than American made airbrushes. With modelling, the failure aspect may not be as critical due to the fact that the airbrush will never undergo the constant and continual usage that the art field puts on them.
The color cup smoothness and attachment characteristics are irrelevent to the operation of the airbrush, and do not impede cleaning if done properly.
The Badger 100LG and the Omni were developed very independently, but are both direct descendants of the Thayer & Chandler/Charles Burdick "Fountain Airbrush" design patented in 1891. Badger Evolved from the Schlotfeldt Screw Machine Company founded by August Schlotfeldt. SCMS did most of the machine work for Thayer, Paasche, Wold, and Binks, so it would stand to reason that Badger Airbrushes would be similar to T&C products. Over the years, many of the parts on T&C (and other) airbrushes were developed and patented by the Schlotfeldt Company, and then used on the Badger lines later. At least everything on a Badger or T&C is legally implemented and used. The Japanese Factory has simply stolen and/or modified US patented components and guns. They even stole the name "Eclipse" as it was an American airbrush company in the 1940's. My allegiance lies with T&C and Badger for many reasons. First and foremost is the unparalleled customer service. Second, Badger/T&C provides many jobs in the US, and many American children are supported as a result. The Badger T&C workforce is a family, and the lowliest worker on the foodchain takes pride in their products as if the product was their own. The president of their company will take over any work station in the main plant while the worker takes a break! And on Fridays when he is not on the road, he cooks lunch for the entire workforce!
I hope this little bit of history helps shed some light on this issue.

Mike

ya know who you remind me of mike? the nieghbor of tim the tool man! ya know the one you never see, but he always has great advice or a good story. anyway, to anyone who cares, i own an omni 5000 brush from T&C and love it. i read a few posts on this forum before i purchased just to see what people were using. and like usual, you get 6,894,347 different opinions about 397 diferent airbrushes. i wound up being more frustrated by reading this forum and trying to choose than i did trying to learn how to use these precious instuments of art. never once has my trigger felt "sticky". i use mine with the spring adjuster backed down til its almost touching the needle chuck. i like it like that. my omni and me get along great. shucks, i would even go as far as to say its my friend. later folks.

end of soapbox... neither of us will understand the other's point of view sufficiently enough to resolve it here. I bought 3 badgers and 2 pasche brushes before going to the iwata. I tried to buy american and the american product didn't do what I needed it to. The incentive to stay away from some iwata brushes is building anyway. the price for the HP-CS has shot up since I bought mine just a couple of months ago.

QUOTE: Originally posted by plum1030 end of soapbox... neither of us will understand the other's point of view sufficiently enough to resolve it here. I bought 3 badgers and 2 pasche brushes before going to the iwata. I tried to buy american and the american product didn't do what I needed it to.

Each of us has to make our own decision on what we need Karl. If you found that in the Iwata then that is fine, I don't frown upon anyone who chooses another brand than the ones made here in the U.S.

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by saltydog ya know who you remind me of mike? the nieghbor of tim the tool man! ya know the one you never see, but he always has great advice or a good story.

Heidi Ho neighbor! Haha.
Am I "Wilson" now?

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by saltydog i use mine with the spring adjuster backed down til its almost touching the needle chuck. i like it like that. my omni and me get along great. shucks, i would even go as far as to say its my friend. later folks.

It's interesting how people like different tensions on the trigger.
I have an Omni 3000 "Scooter Shooter" which is a "Hot-rodded" version of the Omni 3000 with a stiffer spring for faster needle return for getting cleaner dagger strokes.
I like it that way and may "Hot-rod" some other's also with a different spring.

Mike

I have a badger Crescendo that I use mostly, also a Paasche single action airbrush. I bought a Sotar 20/20 from Dixie arts online but haven used it yet. I tried a friend's out but didn't get the expected results. Probably my inexperience with it...

Regards, Dan

QUOTE: Originally posted by boybuddho I bought a Sotar 20/20 from Dixie arts online but haven used it yet. I tried a friend's out but didn't get the expected results. Probably my inexperience with it...

It could also be that this airbrush is total overkill for modeling and performs no better with model paints than does your Crescendo.

Mike

thats the guys name, wilson! i havent watched that show in 10 yrs so i couldnt think of it. well, im off to bed friends and "neighbors". good nite and God bless.

Mike's right about the sotar. Model paints don't go through it well. I use mine for inks only and to be honest, for fine lines my iwata performs better. My new omni and my iwata can both atomize ink better than my sotar! Shocked me.

QUOTE: Originally posted by plum1030 Top line Iwata, second line Omni Third line sotar. http://www.plummersmines.com/modelling/brushtest.jpg

A question for you Karl:

Did you use the Omni with the tip protected in this test or did you reverse the aircap exposing the needle? With the needle exposed you can get closer and an even finer line.

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV Did you use the Omni with the tip protected in this test or did you reverse the aircap exposing the needle? With the needle exposed you can get closer and an even finer line. Mike

the sotar doesn't have one and i took off the iwata and omni protectors just for that reason. That was still the best I could do after some practice. I had never tried to do lines like that with the Iwata, that was first try. I was surprised by how well it did. I'm not sure if you can tell but the quality of the atomization for the iwata and omni were better than the sotar, another shock.

That is interesting that the Sotar didn't beat them both with inks especially.
They claim the Sotar can spray as fine or more fine than an Iwata Micron.

Mike

This is a great thread. How is the price on a Sotar compared to an Eclipse? The idea of getting an illustrating airbrush has begun to pick at my brain until I'll have to do it before too long. I'm interested to do some artwork with one. Getting that down will probably help my overall painting skills too, and that can't be bad.

Josh,

I have seen the Sotar as low as $159 and the Eclipse runs around $105.

I would like to have one too just to play with, but then again I want one of every model made to play with.

Mike

I bought my sotar for $129 from bear air. It was a special. I paid $89 for my iwata either from dixie art or bear air (I can't remember). The HP-CS has shot up since and is now $105 from both bear air and dixie art. If I was recommending one of the two, I'd go with the Iwata, It sprays better, is easier to clean, can easily spray enamels and still costs less. It seems that it's the only one I need.

Hmm, I should get my tax refund back in the next couple of months also...... I feel a new airbrush coming on, maybe I'll pick up a CS to compare, to my revolution, maybe I'll grab an Omni 5k so see how it stacks up as well, and maybe a Custom Micron to start some artwork with. Of course, maybe I'm getting out of hand here. I have a couple of knotworks that would look great painted. I'm thinking about painting one with model enamels, lightly sanding it, then clearcoating it with Future. I have a feeling that it would come out looking pretty neat. I don't really want to paint with model enamels much really though.

QUOTE: Originally posted by maddafinga Hmm, I should get my tax refund back in the next couple of months also...... I feel a new airbrush coming on, maybe I'll pick up a CS to compare, to my revolution, maybe I'll grab an Omni 5k so see how it stacks up as well, and maybe a Custom Micron to start some artwork with. Of course, maybe I'm getting out of hand here.

Are you making fun of me? Yeah, I bought way too many brushes, just because I didn't like any of them till the Iwata. I'm lazy and the thought of cleaning my old brushes kept me from using them.

Nah, I was just going airbrush crazy for a minute, but I'm feeling much better now. I wouldn't mind doing a test myself to see how they compare directly though. I could do the test, then sell the one I like the least on ebay and make a nice profit. They seem to go for more on ebay than they do from dixie or bear.

I would like to have a CS though, it might make cammo jobs on 72 scale a bit easier, and I do want a custom micron for some artwork. I can feel myself slipping a bit again though, gotta reign this in some.

Have you done any more work with your comarison? I'm pretty interested to see how it's coming along. You will probably influence my decision (MikeV is doing so as well) in the long run, but no pressure.

QUOTE: Originally posted by maddafinga I would like to have a CS though, it might make cammo jobs on 72 scale a bit easier, and I do want a custom micron for some artwork. I can feel myself slipping a bit again though, gotta reign this in some. Have you done any more work with your comarison? I'm pretty interested to see how it's coming along. You will probably influence my decision (MikeV is doing so as well) in the long run, but no pressure.

I do mostly 1/72 aircraft and the Iwata made the painting my favorite part! Will be doing more tests. Yesterday I was pre-shading panel lines on a 1/72 Hase F-14 with the iwata. That test I did is what drove me to try it.

http://www.plummersmines.com/modelling/f-14b.jpg

SO....

in conclusion, i can safely say this

1. iwata is among the best built, has tighter tolerences, more reliable, but when it breaks, it needs factory reconditioning. however, the eclipse (i think) is a copy of a t&c airbrush

2. Thayer and Chandler airbrushes are not built as well, however, it works almost the same as iwata. almost.

3. The sotar is not as good as the Micron

4. Aztec is not as recommended as some other brands ie iwata

5. Therefore, the recommended: Iwata, T&C, Badger. the neutral: paasche(not enough info). not recommended: Aztec/testors(also not enough info)

6. have a nice day.

QUOTE: Originally posted by unnamedplayer SO.... in conclusion, i can safely say this 1. iwata is among the best built, has tighter tolerences, more reliable, but when it breaks, it needs factory reconditioning. however, the eclipse (i think) is a copy of a t&c airbrush

No, Iwata's are not more reliable. Yes, the Eclipse is a copy of T&C's Vega and Omni.

QUOTE: 2. Thayer and Chandler airbrushes are not built as well, however, it works almost the same as iwata. almost.

They are built just as well as an Iwata, they are just not as closely machined and therefore are less expensive, but that in no way means they are not of very high quality.

QUOTE: 3. The sotar is not as good as the Micron

That is not true either. They are both high quality, precision airbrushes for illustration work.

QUOTE: 4. Aztec is not as recommended as some other brands ie iwata

Some people love the Aztec's and others hate them, but of course you will find that with any brand and model.

QUOTE: 5. Therefore, the recommended: Iwata, T&C, Badger. the neutral: paasche(not enough info). not recommended: Aztec/testors(also not enough info)

All of those companies produce good airbrushes, it is just a personal thing as to which one people like.

QUOTE: 6. have a nice day.

You too.

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV QUOTE: Originally posted by unnamedplayer SO.... in conclusion, i can safely say this 1. iwata is among the best built, has tighter tolerences, more reliable, but when it breaks, it needs factory reconditioning. however, the eclipse (i think) is a copy of a t&c airbrush No, Iwata's are not more reliable. Yes, the Eclipse is a copy of T&C's Vega and Omni. QUOTE: 2. Thayer and Chandler airbrushes are not built as well, however, it works almost the same as iwata. almost. They are built just as well as an Iwata, they are just not as closely machined and therefore are less expensive, but that in no way means they are not of very high quality. QUOTE: 3. The sotar is not as good as the Micron That is not true either. They are both high quality, precision airbrushes for illustration work. QUOTE: 4. Aztec is not as recommended as some other brands ie iwata Some people love the Aztec's and others hate them, but of course you will find that with any brand and model. QUOTE: 5. Therefore, the recommended: Iwata, T&C, Badger. the neutral: paasche(not enough info). not recommended: Aztec/testors(also not enough info) All of those companies produce good airbrushes, it is just a personal thing as to which one people like. QUOTE: 6. have a nice day. You too. Mike

Side by side the iwata is definitely made better than an omni. (unless my omni is an unusual dud) The iwata is only superficially a copy. To me a copy implies near identical design. the iwata's machining, mechanism and color cup are very different, much more refined. The mechanism is smoother and the color cup is designed to make cleaning shamelessly easy. My badger 150LG could pass for an omni were it not for the lack of access to the needle chuck. So far my only real complaint about the Omni is that it's a pain to get the paint resevoir clean, other that that it workes great. The omni easily sprays better than my VL or Aztek.

As MikeV says, some people have good luck with Azteks. I was one. I preferred it (hands down) to my pasche VL, H and badger 350.

My current recommendation (for what it's worth) is based mostly on budget. If you want to do great quality work and are on a budget, and don't want to spend money later to upgrade, get an T&C omni or Badger 100LG, anthem etc. If you've got money (prices were high and they've gone up) and need near perfection ( I know I'm gonna get it for using that word but I don't use it lightly), get an iwata HP-CS. Iwata's revolution CR may be a good comprimise. If you can get an Aztek for free, then by all means use that, with practice and compulsive cleaning you can get great results. I hated my pasches so I'll just keep my mouth shut there because I know people have great luck with them.

QUOTE: Originally posted by plum1030 So far my only real complaint about the Omni is that it's a pain to get the paint resevoir clean, other that that it workes great.

Karl,

What is so hard about cleaning the cup in the Omni 4000?
I wipe it out with a paper towel the best I can then I put some thinner in it, get a good flat paint brush and put it inside the cup and rub it all around. Then I spray the thinner out, put some more thinner in and spray it out. That is usually good enough to clean it.
I think the Iwata cup has spoiled you.

Mike