Airbrush buying guide

ok and i thought i could conclude it :|

so.

t&c and iwata are almost the same; its just iwata is built better but its just a copy
t&c airbrushes look nice

just a thought: is the badger 360 and omni matrix like the same thing? they look almost identical in fsm

QUOTE: Originally posted by unnamedplayer ok and i thought i could conclude it :| so. t&c and iwata are almost the same; its just iwata is built better but its just a copy t&c airbrushes look nice

I wouldn't say the Iwata is built better, it is just built to tighter tolerances.

QUOTE: just a thought: is the badger 360 and omni matrix like the same thing? they look almost identical in fsm

They are pretty much the same except for shape and features.
I have yet to use one, but am hoping to get a 360 to test out in the near future.

Mike

you sound like me mike, im not gonna quit with the omni 5000, im gonna buy several more ab just to have. i build houses for a living and i collect hammers as well. not because i needed them, but just because i thought it would be cool to try them. matter of fact, my favorite 2 hammers came from hart tool co. out in california. ever heard of em' mike? anyway, im gonna try an iwata just to what all the fuss is about, the badger 360, and the vega 2000. as if anybody cares

Chris,

Actually I am not going to buy the airbrush I mentioned.
I have a connection and I am going to see if I can try out a few Badger airbrushes that I have never used to get an idea of what they are capable of, so when people ask me about them I don't have to say, "I don't know"

Mike

lucky dawg! just kiddin', i only bow to One.

QUOTE: Originally posted by saltydog i only bow to One.

Which is as it should be brother.

Mike

Maybe I'm stirring the pot a little. I have Iwata (HP-B, HP-C, and HP-CR), I have a Badger (100sg), I have T&C (Vega Nailaire, Omni 4000G) and I have A Paasche AB Turbo. I have too many airbrushes but enough to play with and learn what is important in airbrushing. So here is one man’s opinion. Don’t use the stock HP-C with enamel paint. It has too small a needle/nozzle combination to spray enamels without giving you sputtering problems. My HP-C has been modified with a larger needle/nozzle combination and it will spray just fine but not as fine a line as a standard HP-C. Strangely my HP-B with a smaller needle/nozzle than a standard HP-C will spray nicely with enamels.

I do not like the Paasche AB Turbo. It is just too complicated for what it does and is just a dust catcher.

The rest of the ABs that I own I like. I don’t care about which air brush tolerance is tighter (Iwata is) or which one has a smoother bore (Iwata) and is easier to clean because I use the wipe the bowl with a rag then swish solvent with a #5 brush method. My bottom line of how well and how easy it is for the air brushes to spray on my projects. They all do a great job.

I have bought foreign and U.S. air brushes and any of them one sprays just as good as the other. I guess I have helped the world economy a little bit.

One man’s opinion. Now I’ll have to watch out for the flying bricks.

sometimes we get a little too technicle with things dont we? i wish i was like shermanfreak, he's had one airbrush for 20 yrs and never had a use for another one. me, i started with a paache vl yrs ago, went to the H when i got into modelling, now im with the omni 5000. i got frustrated trying to learn the omni, but love the gravity feed so i bought a badger 200 gravity feed. used it for a couple of weeks on some spare plastic, picked up the omni once again and absolutely love it. my curiosity still roams from one brush to another. and like you say roosterfish, they all probably spray basically the same pattern. why cant i just be satisfied with what i have? i need an airbrush psychiatrists! lets see, what can we call it? PAUS (Post Airbrush Usage Syndrome)? later fellows.

Good points roosterfish. I agree completely my friend.
You don't show any partiality in your assessment of the airbrushes and came to a good conclusion in my opinion.

Mike

Hee, hee, saltydog. I've had my HP-C since 1983 and I have been happy with it. Only in the last few years have I thought about and trying different airbrushes. So I bought a couple of different ones knowing I could always sell them later at Ebay. I have come to find out my old-timer 20+ year old HP-C still keeps up with the state-of-the-art ABs. Only when I go to spray a hairline (never) would the ABs make a difference.

ebay seems like a good bet for me too. My test so far proved to me that My HP-CS does everything better than any other brush I have. Leaving me to eventually sell my VL, 100LG, Sotar, Aztek and Omni 4000 (my H and badger 350 are long gone).

I want one that will spray a hair fine line for some illustration. I plan on getting a big tax refund, so I may just pick up a Custom Micron and some paints for it. I would like to pick up an Eclipse or an Omni to compare them to my Revolution. I've had some trouble lately putting a decent cammo on my 1/72 scale spit and I wonder if a finer line brush would help with the soft edge.

I tried masking, but didn't like the results, so I went freehand over the top of that, and liked it better. Unfortunately, by the time I was satisfied with the cammo, the paint was so thick that there were no panel lines or any detail left. Crap. I should have practiced on some spares, but I had too much faith in my hands and artistic ability with no reguard for my airbrushing ability. I did improve quickly though, and have painted it thinly and well the second time around. Hurrah.

I'd just be interested to see how the more expensive models compare to the Revolution. Would anyone else be interested in a comparison like that?

QUOTE: Originally posted by plum1030 ebay seems like a good bet for me too. My test so far proved to me that My HP-CS does everything better than any other brush I have. Leaving me to eventually sell my VL, 100LG, Sotar, Aztek and Omni 4000 (my H and badger 350 are long gone).

Send me an email about the Omni before you go to Ebay, I might be interested.

Have you ever noticed that Omni's are rarely ever seen on Ebay?
I have seen maybe three or four for sale in the past year. Interesting.

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by maddafinga I'd just be interested to see how the more expensive models compare to the Revolution. Would anyone else be interested in a comparison like that?

Josh,

Any comparisons are interesting to see.

I would talk to someone experienced in illustration airbrushes before I went and dropped almost $300 on a Micron. The Sotar by the way is about half as much and is supposed to be just as fine if not moreso. Why not shoot Dru Blair and email and tell him what you are considering and get his opinion? You might want to come on over to the Airbrush Online forums and ask your question there also: http://www.airbrushonline.com/

Just keep practicing and you will be able to paint anything you want freehand on even those 1/72 scale planes. I think any airbrush designed for finer lines isn't necessary.
Any airbrush along the lines of the Omni, Vega, Anthem, 360, 150, Eclipse, Revolution, VL, etc will do what you want with practice.

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV The Sotar by the way is about half as much and is supposed to be just as fine if not moreso. Any airbrush along the lines of the Omni, Vega, Anthem, 360, 150, Eclipse, Revolution, VL, etc will do what you want with practice. Mike

I found that my HP-CS sprays just as fine lines, atomizes better, is easier to clean, is more versatile (in terms of media it can spray) and is built more solidly than my sotar. It wouldn't be too hard to actually bend the handle of the sotar just beyond the needle chuck access point. It's pretty weak there.

We're all building models here and essentially any of the brushes that MikeV mentions (with the exception of the VL in my biased opinion) will work great for what we do.

QUOTE: Originally posted by plum1030 It wouldn't be too hard to actually bend the handle of the sotar just beyond the needle chuck access point. It's pretty weak there.

Karl,

Believe it or not, a friend of mine did a test to see how well the Sotar needle was made and shot it through a blowgun into a 2x4. He said he pulled it out of the board, put it back into the Sotar and it sprayed great still.
The Iwata needle will not take any abuse I have been told.

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV QUOTE: Originally posted by plum1030 It wouldn't be too hard to actually bend the handle of the sotar just beyond the needle chuck access point. It's pretty weak there. The Iwata needle will not take any abuse I have been told. Mike

The best needle will still not move well through a bent handle.
Mike, you need to get an iwata and use it before having such indepth opinions about it. I find it to be the best made and performing brush I've owned. I'd say that my badger 100LG would take second VL third then the omni and the rest.

Clarification needed on that last sentence. That only refers to the apparent quality/solidness of the brush. Not the other traits I listed.

QUOTE: Originally posted by plum1030 Mike, you need to get an iwata and use it before having such indepth opinions about it.

Indepth opinons? I mearly stated that the Sotar needle was stronger, that's all.
My opinion of Iwata airbrushes has already been made clear before, they are well made, machined very well and I am sure they spray great. But as I have already made clear I prefer to buy American made products if possible and the airbrushes the U.S. produces spray as good as I will ever need. I do not see a need to spend almost 50% more money for an airbrush that will not yield me any better results than what I have.
I may try one someday if someone wants to let me borrow one just to see what they feel like, but I am not going to buy one unless it's dirt cheap.

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV [Indepth opinons? I mearly stated that the Sotar needle was stronger, that's all. My opinion of Iwata airbrushes has already been made clear before, they are well made, machined very well and I am sure they spray great. But as I have already made clear I prefer to buy American made products if possible and the airbrushes the U.S. produces spray as good as I will ever need. I do not see a need to spend almost 50% more money for an airbrush that will not yield me any better results than what I have. I may try one someday if someone wants to let me borrow one just to see what they feel like, but I am not going to buy one unless it's dirt cheap. Mike

I wasn't referring to just the previous post. You've offered many people detailed comparisons in terms of quality and capabilities between the omni and iwata without actually having them. You continually say that they are comparable in workmanship and design but you haven't actually had them together to compare! If you actually put them together and compare, any claim of equal quality of workmanship cannot hold water. The Eclipse line costs a good chunk of $ more now but you do get a better constructed brush that can spray finer lines. I cannot debate that the omni is a fine brush, as it is clearly a fine brush and gives great results (better than most). If I had bought an omni first I may have never bought an iwata. But comparing the Iwata and omni side my side, the Iwata is clearly better. Most modellers don't need a brush even as good as an omni. You and I are just at different degrees of overkill. I was just willing to spend the money to be pampered all the way.

QUOTE: Originally posted by plum1030 You continually say that they are comparable in workmanship and design but you haven't actually had them together to compare! If you actually put them together and compare, any claim of equal quality of workmanship cannot hold water.

Give me an example where I said they are comparable in workmanship and design?
Someone asked if the Iwata was better than the Omni and I said that it wasn't.
How does that imply that they are equal in workmanship or design?
If you would read my previous posts you would see that I said to you on one occasion, "You are just used to the Iwata which is smoother and has tighter tolerances, but then again it costs about 33% more than the Omni so you would expect something for that much money."
That sounds to me like I was saying the Iwata was a little better in terms of machining, but that the price was why.
I also said this: "let me say that I will be the first to say that "The Factory" in Japan does some very nice and precise machine work and builds the best machined airbrushes in the world except for the Sotar."
Does that sound like I am saying the Omni is equal in terms of machining to the Iwata?

Maybe you should re-read my posts before chiding me for something I didn't say.

QUOTE: Originally posted by plum1030 [br The Eclipse line costs a good chunk of $ more now but you do get a better constructed brush that can spray finer lines.

But that is only something you have discovered true for yourself.
I know people who could spray as fine of a line with a Paasche VL as you could with that Eclipse so what does that say? Is it possible for a $59 VL to spray as fine of a line as a $105 Eclipse? In the right hands, yes.
Although I would agree that it would probably be easier for a beginner to get finer lines with the Eclipse as they are made to a tighter tolerance.

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV QUOTE: Originally posted by maddafinga I'd just be interested to see how the more expensive models compare to the Revolution. Would anyone else be interested in a comparison like that? Josh, Any comparisons are interesting to see. I would talk to someone experienced in illustration airbrushes before I went and dropped almost $300 on a Micron. The Sotar by the way is about half as much and is supposed to be just as fine if not moreso. Why not shoot Dru Blair and email and tell him what you are considering and get his opinion? You might want to come on over to the Airbrush Online forums and ask your question there also: http://www.airbrushonline.com/ Just keep practicing and you will be able to paint anything you want freehand on even those 1/72 scale planes. I think any airbrush designed for finer lines isn't necessary. Any airbrush along the lines of the Omni, Vega, Anthem, 360, 150, Eclipse, Revolution, VL, etc will do what you want with practice. Mike

Dru reccomends the Custom Micron actually, he mentions it on his site in the classes section of it. I know they'll all work, and I did eventually get a very nice cammo job with my CR, but the paint was too thick by that time I'll do it again as well, and get it right the first time, now that I now how to do it. I just felt like a finer line brush could outline a bit better without quite so much overspray on the border. I do have good hands though, so I can get it down really well with practice. I'm interested to see how they compare to each other. I'll probably be getting 4k or so back on taxes, so the bucks for the CM won't be that big a deal really.

First though, I'll probably pick up some art airbrushing paint, and give it a shot with some frisket, just to see how it comes out. I have an idea of making a knotwork with a dragon using metallic model enamels on paper. When the whole thing is painted, I'll hit it with several coats of Future, then sand and polish it up with my micro mark polishing kit. I have a feeling it'll be pretty cool, but all the frisket work might be a pain in the hiney.

Also, remember, we're all friends here.

QUOTE: Originally posted by maddafinga Also, remember, we're all friends here.

I agree.

My appologies to this group if my posts seemed out of line at all.
I in no way meant to be demeaning or imply that my opinions are the only valid ones out there. I appreciate all the input everyone gives here on what they have discovered with airbrushes because it gives us an accumulation of knowledge that is very helpful on this subject.

Mike

I, for one, am enjoying the discussion a lot. I always thought it was how the air brush laid paint down on a project that was important. I thought needle/nozzle combinations that work and if a needle/nozzle could be interchanged with another set might be more important. I didn't know it was more important to worry about how much slack an air brush has or one air brush bowl is smoother than the other and takes 10 seonds less time to clean. I make sure I have 'quiet time', no distractions and I'm not in a hurry before I air brush so I make sure my air brushes feel right and I'm not in a hurry to clean them.

I'm not trying to be sarcastic but have the two of you thought about trading ABs and doing three projects to get familiar with the other ones brush? Then see if it is enlightening to see the other's point of view?

Carry on!

QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV QUOTE: Originally posted by maddafinga Also, remember, we're all friends here. I agree. My appologies to this group if my posts seemed out of line at all. I in no way meant to be demeaning or imply that my opinions are the only valid ones out there. I appreciate all the input everyone gives here on what they have discovered with airbrushes because it gives us an accumulation of knowledge that is very helpful on this subject. Mike

No, nobody was out of line or even getting testy at all, but I've seen this kind of thing get out of hand and personal on other forums. I didn't feel that anyone was demeaning or anything like that. I enjoy everyone's input and hate to see things get blown out of proportion due to the limits of text communication.

How is that comparison coming along by the way Karl?

QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV QUOTE: Originally posted by maddafinga Also, remember, we're all friends here. I agree. My appologies to this group if my posts seemed out of line at all. I in no way meant to be demeaning or imply that my opinions are the only valid ones out there. I appreciate all the input everyone gives here on what they have discovered with airbrushes because it gives us an accumulation of knowledge that is very helpful on this subject. Mike

I was just reading along with all the informative posts. I don't think anybody thought you were out of line. But the strong arguements both ways helped to point out issues that someone like me might get something out of.

I've been shooting an Aztek 470 for awhile now and I think I've outgrown it. I find myself wanting more out of an airbrush. This thread has helped a lot.

I"m considering either the Iwata HP-CS or the Omni 4000. And I can use the Aztek for some general purpose stuff.

But this brings up a question. Do people use the HP-CS and 4000 for the finer lines (.35?) and a second airbrush for cases when they need more coverage (.5?).... say your airbrushing larger with a base coat. Or are these airbrushes flexible enough that you can get by with just the 1 airbrush?

Well, my Revolution has only a .5 nozzle,and I did manage to get a nice looking cammo job on a 1/72 spitfire with it. It took me a bit of practice, but I did get it. I'm interested to try an omni or an Eclipse CS just to see how they compare to my CR, but I don't really need any more of a brush than I have already. Want is a different thing though. I want to start doing some airbrush illustration though, and that is a different animal entirely.