Which Airbrush to buy?

I'm not overly familiar with either brush, but Badger currently have the Vega 2000 & the 150 on offer in their "Garage Sale" department;

http://www.badgerairbrush.com/Garage_Sale.asp

Both are good reliable airbrushes. I have one of each and have both for over 22 years and are still going strong. The only parts I had to replace was the needles. The Badger (IMO) is more flexiable in the finer detail work while the Paasche H is good for larger single color coverage. For cleaning the Paasche is a little easier to clean because it's ext mix.

What was the issue with the double action airbrush? Was it due to the double action which is harder to get the hang of or was it something wrong with the airbrush itself.

Owen

Here I go again, plugging myself.  There is information on all 3 on my website.

I'm shameless.

Don

Don Wheeler

Here I go again, plugging myself.  There is information on all 3 on my website.

I'm shameless.

Don

You certainly are aren't you Don?

Just kidding my friend. We all appreciate the time "experts" of individual topics post here to help others.

You can get a Badger Anthem 155 Double Action Siphon feed airbrush at Coast Airbrush for around $74 brand new.  I got one.  Awesome little brush.  I never cared for the Paasche brushes.  Not sure why, probably the handle design on most of their models.   I researched for over two weeks deciding on the Anthem.  It seems like the best general purpose airbrush out there, and can handle anything you throw at it.

Here's the link

http://www.coastairbrush.com/proddetail.asp?prod=155-1

I just looked and right now it's on sale again for what I paid for it.  $62.95 for the kit, including Brush, 2 jars and a paint cup.

You can't beat that deal.

mrazz

Last year I purchased a double action airbrush from Harbor Freight. I am new to airbrushing and also totally frustrated. I have finally decided to buy a new airbrush. My choices are narrowed to the following:

Badger model 200-20 Detail Single action

or

Paasche H Series kit

Any opinions as to which of these models would be the best choice? I have a compressor/ regulator setup ready to go. I also want to consider ease of cleaning. The primary use for this would be detailing structures and scenery  for HO scale model railroading. I do have a couple model aircraft kits I would like to detail also. any information will help.

Thanks

 

Thanks for the reply. I figured that would be the case with cleaning the Paasche H series.  The problem with my Harbor Freight double action is probably 90% operator error. I think it is the mixing of the paint. I can’t get the paint to siphon up and through the brush. Than I mix it so thin to a point where it sprays like water and runs right off the plastic I’m trying to paint. The LHS told me not to use water or iso alcohol to thin acrylics. They said to match the brand paint with that brand thinner. This may have been an up sale, but the extra $4.00 for specific thinner isn’t going to break me either. I went ahead and tried Testors thinner and still had the same problem. I use Polly Scale RR paints. I dissassembled the brush and now the trigger seems loose. It rocks from side to side very loosely. So I am very frustrated. I am leaning toward buying the Paasche H series because of the ease of cleaning. Model Railroader magazine has an expert tip video on how to dissasemble and clean the Paasche H series with Windex, looks pretty easy. Coast airbrush has the H series kit (including size #3 and #5 spray tips) for $53.00 shipping included.

Thanks for all the replys so far.

Mark

It's possible that the brush is drawing air somewhere in the paint path, or that for some reason it isn't creating (or getting) enough vacuum to draw paint at the regular viscosity - hence it only seems to work with over thinned paint. I suppose it will work fine with water?

Okay.  The thing with Acrylics (which is why I don't use them for anything but washes) is that no two specific paints thin the same.  Some can be thinned with water, some need alcohol, and some need a specific thinner.  To add to the lunacy, different colors within the same brand can and mostly do react differently as well.  With enamels, they pretty much thin the same way.  A simple 1:1 with most enamel thinners works fine for most folks.  You might want to consider switching.  Changing brushes is ot going to change how acrylics behave (or misbehave).  As for  Gravity or siphon feed.  Some folks prefer gravity fed, but I prefer the option of having a large jar or a paint cup.  The jar is much better for larger jobs like 1/48 or 1/32 aircraft.  The siphon fed brushes also have a cup, and the Badger is the best one out there.  If you look at your current brush's cup, you will notice a small hole at the bottom or partway up the side.  This makes it hard for the brush to siphon when there is very little paint left.  The Badger cups have a tube that extends to the bottom of the cup and allows for much more paint to be used before you need to refill.  Using a Jar also has one other advantage.  If you need to mix paint for a specific task like a large aircraft fuselage, you can do it right in the jar.  That way you have a large amount of paint which is all the same color and already jarred (is that even a  word..?).  With cups you have to mix externally then transfer the paint a little at a time into the brush cup.  They say that Gravity fed provides a small downpressure that allows for better finer spray.  The same can be accomplished by simply increasing the air pressure to a siphon fed brush.   I weighed all of these factors before snagging my 155.  The benefits of a siphon feed outweigh the benefits of gravity fed.  And I can also tell you that even with the siphon bottle in place, the balance and feel of the 155 is terrific.  Plus you can more easily see what you are painting without that annoying cup in the way. lol.  So think carefully before you make what is a fairly major investment.  See if there is a local place you can actually get your hands on oen to try it out for feel, before deciding on which brush to get.

Rich

mrazz

Thanks for the reply. I figured that would be the case with cleaning the Paasche H series.  The problem with my Harbor Freight double action is probably 90% operator error. I think it is the mixing of the paint. I can’t get the paint to siphon up and through the brush. Than I mix it so thin to a point where it sprays like water and runs right off the plastic I’m trying to paint. The LHS told me not to use water or iso alcohol to thin acrylics. They said to match the brand paint with that brand thinner. This may have been an up sale, but the extra $4.00 for specific thinner isn’t going to break me either. I went ahead and tried Testors thinner and still had the same problem. I use Polly Scale RR paints. I dissassembled the brush and now the trigger seems loose. It rocks from side to side very loosely. So I am very frustrated. I am leaning toward buying the Paasche H series because of the ease of cleaning. Model Railroader magazine has an expert tip video on how to dissasemble and clean the Paasche H series with Windex, looks pretty easy. Coast airbrush has the H series kit (including size #3 and #5 spray tips) for $53.00 shipping included.

Thanks for all the replys so far.

Mark

I was thinking the same thing.  You kind of get what you pay for with brushes.  The Harbor Freight brushes I believe are made by the same company who made my old Master G23.  It had problems with bad fitting seals from day 1, Which is why I went to the Anthem 155.  The Master had small leaks around the place where the tube goes into the jar, and as I found out a few weeks later, it had a small one just at the point where the tip assembly screws onto the body of the brush.

Milairjunkie

It's possible that the brush is drawing air somewhere in the paint path, or that for some reason it isn't creating (or getting) enough vacuum to draw paint at the regular viscosity - hence it only seems to work with over thinned paint. I suppose it will work fine with water?

Mrazz - when you clean your jar cap's siphon tube are you shoving tissue and/or craft-store-type pipe cleaners dipped in thinner up it? If you are you may have clogged it with lots of small hairs and fibers being pulled off of the tissue/pipe cleaners as you reciprocate them in and out. This has happened to me on a number of occasions with my Pasche VL double action siphon.

I came up with two solutions - 1 - get a 2/3" needle, bend the tip so it can snag stuff, shove it up both ends of the jar cap siphon and gouge out all the gunky crap up there.

2 - invest in a nylon A/B cleaner. Exactly the same as a pipe/test-tube cleaner but the bristles are tightly jammed within the twisted wire and take a lot of use to start being ripped off.

HTH

Yeh Cleaners are great.  Here's an image of what you need.

And you can get them from this guy on eBay for $6 and free shipping.

http://cgi.ebay.com/5-Pc-Mini-Cleaning-Brush-Set-Pait-Cleaner-Airbrush-/250764047175?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a62b3b347

Hope this helps.

Rich

somenewguy

Mrazz - when you clean your jar cap's siphon tube are you shoving tissue and/or craft-store-type pipe cleaners dipped in thinner up it? If you are you may have clogged it with lots of small hairs and fibers being pulled off of the tissue/pipe cleaners as you reciprocate them in and out. This has happened to me on a number of occasions with my Pasche VL double action siphon.

I came up with two solutions - 1 - get a 2/3" needle, bend the tip so it can snag stuff, shove it up both ends of the jar cap siphon and gouge out all the gunky crap up there.

2 - invest in a nylon A/B cleaner. Exactly the same as a pipe/test-tube cleaner but the bristles are tightly jammed within the twisted wire and take a lot of use to start being ripped off.

HTH

It would seem that there are few subjects that garner such varied opinions such as the airbrush one.  The key is just to find one that is comfortable, well made and accomplishes what you want it to.  Badger, Thayer & Chandler (Now badger), Iwata, Paasche, aztec all make good products.  There are numerous accounts of people getting great results with any of them.  The hard part is finding somewhere you can actually hold them and see for yourself.  I personally have a Vega 2000 and an HP-CS.  I love them both for very different reasons.

Dave

Sparrowhyperion

I was thinking the same thing.  You kind of get what you pay for with brushes.  The Harbor Freight brushes I believe are made by the same company who made my old Master G23.  It had problems with bad fitting seals from day 1, Which is why I went to the Anthem 155.  The Master had small leaks around the place where the tube goes into the jar, and as I found out a few weeks later, it had a small one just at the point where the tip assembly screws onto the body of the brush.

Yup.  More fine products from our friends in the far east.  I really hate junky imported goods. lol..

Milairjunkie

 

Sparrowhyperion:

 

I was thinking the same thing.  You kind of get what you pay for with brushes.  The Harbor Freight brushes I believe are made by the same company who made my old Master G23.  It had problems with bad fitting seals from day 1, Which is why I went to the Anthem 155.  The Master had small leaks around the place where the tube goes into the jar, and as I found out a few weeks later, it had a small one just at the point where the tip assembly screws onto the body of the brush.

 

Yes, they are most likely all products of Fengda in China & reviews of these brushes is a bit on the variable side. They are fine when they work, but seem almost as likely not to work, with issues surrounding seal & thread quality.

As they say in another trade, mileage may vary (considerably in this case)!

 

mrazz

Thanks for the reply. I figured that would be the case with cleaning the Paasche H series.  The problem with my Harbor Freight double action is probably 90% operator error. I think it is the mixing of the paint. I can’t get the paint to siphon up and through the brush. Than I mix it so thin to a point where it sprays like water and runs right off the plastic I’m trying to paint. 

Mark, if I might, have you considered picking up a gravity feed double action? If you're having problems with the siphon action, a gravity feed is pretty much the surest way to overcome that!

I used a Paasche H for years. It's a solid workhorse airbrush. I still have mine, but these days it spends most of its time in a drawer, and I only pull it out when I need to absolutely bomb a subject with paint (works great for things like pre WWII yellow wings schemes). 

Here's the thing with the Paasche H - at least in my experience. First, compared to any double-action I've ever used, it's basically like an alcoholic, only for paint. Second, it's siphon-feed, which some people love, but IMO (having used exclusively siphon until last summer) just introduces another variable to the equation - and another thing to clean! You have to worry about having bottles on hand, or cleaning out that PITA siphon cup.

As for cleaning the Paasche H, it's easy-ish. Basically two parts on the airbrush that need steady attention. But it can be messy, and takes me about twice as long to strip and clean as my Iwatas or my Grex.

Guys, I brought AB cleaning set from Harbor Freight Tools for only $2 each.  No kidding... if you have one in your area, just go and buy one!   It sure beats paying $11 I paid last time from TCP Global ($7 plus shipping).  I bought two just in case... both looked the exact same. 

Yep, and sometimes you can even catch a sale and get them cheaper. I also use those little interdental brushes that are intended for cleaning between teeth. I used to use pipe cleaners but the wire's kinda big and can chew up the needle seal/bearing.

As far as airbrushes, I recently bought an Iwata Revolution CR as a general purpose gravity fed brush and am very happy with it. If you want something capable of more detail then there is the BR version. CR uses a .50mm nozzle and the BR uses a .30mm. $72.95 shipped from Chicago Airbrush or Coast Airbrush. Pick up a $3 hose adaptor and you're good to go.

Tony

Milairjunkie

Sparrowhyperion:

I was thinking the same thing.  You kind of get what you pay for with brushes.  The Harbor Freight brushes I believe are made by the same company who made my old Master G23.  It had problems with bad fitting seals from day 1, Which is why I went to the Anthem 155.  The Master had small leaks around the place where the tube goes into the jar, and as I found out a few weeks later, it had a small one just at the point where the tip assembly screws onto the body of the brush.

Yes, they are most likely all products of Fengda in China & reviews of these brushes is a bit on the variable side. They are fine when they work, but seem almost as likely not to work, with issues surrounding seal & thread quality.

As they say in another trade, mileage may vary (considerably in this case)!

Usually, if you get a knock-off made by Fengdau in China, such as the TCPGlobal Master brand, it works pretty well when it is new. Don Wheeler pointed out some of the design defect in the paint cup. But I definitely considered them an option for beginner modeler who is tight on budget. Long term durability is the biggest unknown. However, there are tens of airbrush factories in China who make "knock-offs of Fengdau". Those could be really bad. So buyer be aware. I suspect Harbor Freight does not source their airbrush from Fengdau.

I found a new knock-off at Hobby Lobby called "Neo for Iwata" recently. I got the gravity feed one for $38. It was supposed to have parts made in Taiwan and assembled in China. I am pretty impressed with the finish and the paint cup design is easy to clean. (It sets it aside from most of the old Fengdau.) The needle is typical Fengdau quality, in fact, same diameter. So it is not bad compared to some American brand needles. I have had that for a while, but have not find time to test it yet. Below are some pictures of the disassembled "Neo for Iwata"

Airbrush and compressor are the type of item that you get what you paid for. I have no reservation to recommend the "Neo for Iwata" or even a FengDua knock-off to a teen modeler who has limited allowance. My go-to airbrush for general modeling task is an Iwata Eclipse HP-CS. A good workhorse airbrush capable of a lot of details and easy to get spares cheap at Hobby Lobby.

If I may, I would agree with DoogsATX; just get a simple, reliable double-action airbrush. I've used syphon for a while, and did not like it at all compared to double-action airbrushes. Very affordable ones can be found, and like everything, if cleaned and maintained, should last a long time. Plus, as pointed out, they drink far less paint than syphon.

Um.  Siphon has nothing to do with the action.  I think you mean Gravity feed.  I actually prefer siphon for a few reasons.   First off you can use more paint at one time, and you don't have the cup getting in the way when you are trying to see what you are doing.  I prefer Double Action over Single because I like to have more immediate control over how and what I am spraying without having to stop and adjust the needle.  That's why I got an Anthem 155.

I suppose it all boils down to personal choice.  People say they like gravity feed because it give more power when you spray.  Well, I have a 100PSI compressor with a 2 gallon tank and all I have to do is turn up the pressure a tad to get the same result.  The siphon cup doesn't bother me where it is and neither does the jar when I am working on something like a B52.

Other people don't like the weight of the jar, or have issues with the placement of the cup.  Like I said, it's all a matter of finding the brush that just feels right for each individual.

As for paints.  I use enamel for base coats always.  I only use Acrylics for washes.  I use the enamels so I CAN use thinned acrylics for washes without eating up the base coats.  Acrylics are too unpredictable.  Different colors and brands all seem to be different when it comes to thinning, acrylics dry too fast for my taste and some of them are a bear to clean up.  Not to mention that I have found some colors nearly impossible to find in acrylic.  Enamels are available in more colors, and are really consistent when you are thinning them and spraying them.  One brand and color works pretty much the same as others.  So you don't get any nasty surprises when you spray unless the paint is old or bad.  And enamels are just as easy to use if you spend a few bucks for a semi decent respirator.  The ONLY major advantage I see with Acrylics is that it is usually easier to remove, but even then, that may not be an advantage on some projects.  As for Lacquers..  I never use them.  They can be too aggressive on plastics like the stuff Dragon uses for some of their kits.  And lacquer thinners can eventually dissolve or weaken the O-rings in the airbrush.  Then you have to replace them.

Once again, it's all personal preference.

Rich

Sparrowhyperion

I suppose it all boils down to personal choice.  People say they like gravity feed because it give more power when you spray.  Well, I have a 100PSI compressor with a 2 gallon tank and all I have to do is turn up the pressure a tad to get the same result.  The siphon cup doesn't bother me where it is and neither does the jar when I am working on something like a B52.

Oh I totally agree it's personal preference, BUT I do think it's gravity feed is somewhat easier to "dial in", and since the OP was having issues getting paint to siphon, a gravity brush removes one variable from the equation.

I've had siphon problems in the past with my Paasche H, and can totally understand the frustration of finding just that right PSI balance between paint not siphoning and paint firehosing the model. Maybe it's different with a higher-end double action siphon feed...

I actually tried out a single action before I got my Anthem, and you are right, they are different.  The control is much better on the Dual Action.  No messing with needle adjustments, just vary the trigger pull.  It does take a few tries to get used to it though.

DoogsATX

 

Sparrowhyperion:

 

I suppose it all boils down to personal choice.  People say they like gravity feed because it give more power when you spray.  Well, I have a 100PSI compressor with a 2 gallon tank and all I have to do is turn up the pressure a tad to get the same result.  The siphon cup doesn't bother me where it is and neither does the jar when I am working on something like a B52.

 

 

Oh I totally agree it's personal preference, BUT I do think it's gravity feed is somewhat easier to "dial in", and since the OP was having issues getting paint to siphon, a gravity brush removes one variable from the equation.

I've had siphon problems in the past with my Paasche H, and can totally understand the frustration of finding just that right PSI balance between paint not siphoning and paint firehosing the model. Maybe it's different with a higher-end double action siphon feed...

Sparrowhyperion

 As for Lacquers..  I never use them.  They can be too aggressive on plastics like the stuff Dragon uses for some of their kits.  And lacquer thinners can eventually dissolve or weaken the O-rings in the airbrush.  Then you have to replace them.

The only O rings in the airbrush are the ones in the air valve assembly so if you keep paint out of the internal areas of the trigger you will be ok normally although I do agree with you that lacquer is aggressive and care needs to be exercised by spraying light mist coats of it on plastic so as to not attack the plastic. Many  airbrushes are now solvent proof and can take any paint without any problems.

They are going to phase out enamels completley before too long so I would learn the quirks of acrylics and start moving over to them exclusively. I use acrylics as my base coats as well as washes although I use water based T-shirt airbrush paint for my washes as it does not adhere very well which I like.

I've looked around the web and I have been told about the O ring problem with some brushes more than a few times.  The primary symptom of it is apparently paint leakage into the back of the airbrush.  I am pretty sure that this is why Badger offers the free seal O ring replacement service with their products.  I know I wouldn't even try it with my big fat hands. lol

I had not heard anything about any of the companies phasing out enamels.  I would be really surprised if they did.  Way too many people prefer enamels.  I have had issues with Tamiya acrylics and tryig to do washes.  even after several days of curing time, they would blend and generally make a mess.  I have had it happen with MM acrylics when trying to use acrylics for base and washes.  I have tried ammonia, alcohol and water for thinners depending on what color paints and what brand i am using.  This is why I finally decided to not even mess with acrylics as base coats anymore.  It is so much easier to use the acrylics and save a lot of time messing with different thinning rations and media depending on the brand and color acrylic you are using.  I think if they go to all acrylic, then they will lose a lot of business.  Lately I have been using some Humbrol enamel cans and they work great, and about half as much as MM.  I just wish they had more colors.

Rich

Marine Sniper

 

Sparrowhyperion:

 

 As for Lacquers..  I never use them.  They can be too aggressive on plastics like the stuff Dragon uses for some of their kits.  And lacquer thinners can eventually dissolve or weaken the O-rings in the airbrush.  Then you have to replace them.

 

The only O rings in the airbrush are the ones in the air valve assembly so if you keep paint out of the internal areas of the trigger you will be ok normally although I do agree with you that lacquer is aggressive and care needs to be exercised by spraying light mist coats of it on plastic so as to not attack the plastic. Many  airbrushes are now solvent proof and can take any paint without any problems.

They are going to phase out enamels completley before too long so I would learn the quirks of acrylics and start moving over to them exclusively. I use acrylics as my base coats as well as washes although I use water based T-shirt airbrush paint for my washes as it does not adhere very well which I like.

Sparrowhyperion

I've looked around the web and I have been told about the O ring problem with some brushes more than a few times.  The primary symptom of it is apparently paint leakage into the back of the airbrush.

 

 

Actually that is the needle bearing and it is not an O-ring.

I had not heard anything about any of the companies phasing out enamels.  I would be really surprised if they did.  Way too many people prefer enamels.

It has more to do with environmental issues and the Green movement I think.

I have had issues with Tamiya acrylics and tryig to do washes.  even after several days of curing time, they would blend and generally make a mess.

Did you protect the paint with a clear coat of Future and wait 48 hours to allow it to dry before using the washes?

You may be right.  My memory doesn't work as well as it used to.

I used a coat or Clear Gloss Coat from Model Masters.  I only started using future a few months ago.

Rich

Marine Sniper

 

Sparrowhyperion:

 

I've looked around the web and I have been told about the O ring problem with some brushes more than a few times.  The primary symptom of it is apparently paint leakage into the back of the airbrush.

 

 

 

 

Actually that is the needle bearing and it is not an O-ring.

 

 

I had not heard anything about any of the companies phasing out enamels.  I would be really surprised if they did.  Way too many people prefer enamels.

 

 

It has more to do with environmental issues and the Green movement I think.

 

 

I have had issues with Tamiya acrylics and tryig to do washes.  even after several days of curing time, they would blend and generally make a mess.

 

Did you protect the paint with a clear coat of Future and wait 48 hours to allow it to dry before using the washes?

Doogs mentioned Grex briefly up above, and IMHO they deserve a lot more attention than what they get.  For detail work, once you go with a long-throw, pistol style trigger you'll likely never go back. 

I stil use the Aztek 7778 for primers and wide coverage base coats.  Put the white tip on it, load up the cup with thinned Surfacer 1200, and blast away.  When finished, shoot some cheap home depot lacquer thinner and drop white tip back into sealed jar of the same. 

For camo lines and mottling, though, you just can't beat the trigger on the Grex.  The Aztek and Iwata brushes I've tried have a microscopic throw length that can make it difficult to get precise, faded mottle blobs on a base coat.  The mechanical length of the Grex trigger makes selecting very small amounts of paint a snap.  And you can't beat the stability of having your entire hand wrapped around the pistol grip.

NervousEnergy

For camo lines and mottling, though, you just can't beat the trigger on the Grex.  The Aztek and Iwata brushes I've tried have a microscopic throw length that can make it difficult to get precise, faded mottle blobs on a base coat.  The mechanical length of the Grex trigger makes selecting very small amounts of paint a snap.  And you can't beat the stability of having your entire hand wrapped around the pistol grip.

Just curious, which Iwata airbrush did you find to have a microscopic throw of its trigger?

I don't doubt that the Grex pistol grip may have a longer mechanical throw. But the linear throw length of the trigger is more a function of the taper length or angle. I would expect any airbrush with a 6 degrews or smaller (taper or linear flow) angle to have a reasonably long linear throw, whether it is Badger, Columbo, Harder & Steenbeck, Iwata, Paasche or Grex's own non-pistol airbrushes. Most of the fine detail airbrush fall into this catagory and can be had for a lot less than the Grex's pistol grip.

I have not heard anything bad about the Grex pistol grip. But am not sure I want to pay the extra for that since I do not do much free hand. Grex regular trigger airbrush are more price competitive with the other brands.