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Wits end with airbrushing Tamiya acrylics

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  • Member since
    May 2011
Wits end with airbrushing Tamiya acrylics
Posted by dazzjazz on Monday, December 30, 2019 2:22 AM

Hi all,

 

can anyone tell me why I'm getting this speckled metallic effect with Tamiya paints please? I've cleaned my airbrush very well, I've thinned the paint a little and I'm using 20-25lbs on my compressor. This issue doesn't seem to happen with Vallejo paints.

Example photo

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Monday, December 30, 2019 2:57 AM

Cant see the pic.  What are you thinking with?  In thin tamiya with 94% isopropyl alcohol about 60/40 and spray around 18lbs.

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    May 2011
Posted by dazzjazz on Monday, December 30, 2019 3:11 AM
  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Monday, December 30, 2019 5:18 AM

TR

  • Member since
    May 2011
Posted by dazzjazz on Monday, December 30, 2019 5:33 AM

So can you see the photo and the issue I've described? 
the thing is, yet again I feel like I've been doing all the right things - gosh I've watched so many instructional videos.

 

some times airbrushing is just easy, and other times nothing goes right. 
I just spent some time spraying Vallejo on a 1/48th scal Spitfire, only to have the airbrush clog up. The number of videos saying Vallejo doesn't need to be thinned must be wrong. 

scratching my bald head!

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Monday, December 30, 2019 6:09 AM

TR

  • Member since
    January 2017
Posted by damouav on Monday, December 30, 2019 6:11 AM

Thin the paint to the constancy of skim milk. Play with the pressure, personally I dont shot that high. I prefer laqure thinners, I get better results.

What type of compressor is used, constant or air tank?

Good luck.

In Progress
1/48 Tamiya P47-D Bubbletop
1/48 Hobby Boss TBF-1C Avenger (on hold)
Pending
1/48 Roden S.E.5a
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  • Member since
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Posted by oldermodelguy on Monday, December 30, 2019 6:45 AM

Text removed.

  • Member since
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  • From: The Deep Woods
Posted by Tickmagnet on Monday, December 30, 2019 8:05 AM

I understand your frustration have had it myself. Other than thinning enough I found that a drop of Tamiya paint retarder helps with lowering or even eliminating the spattering of Tamiya metallic acrylics. I've only tried it once but it seemed to make a definite improvement when I used it. I also thin them 50/50 with Tamiya X20A.

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2013
Posted by patrick206 on Wednesday, January 1, 2020 5:49 PM

We have likely all had to just go through the experimental stages of learning what works, and what doesn't. Speaking strictly from my own experience, this works for me, and I am a Tamiya acrylic user.

First, a thorough cleaning of the airbrush. Then make sure you have completely stirred your paint, just shaking the bottle is not enough. For thinning I use both X-20A or 71 to 90 percent alcohol, I don't notice a significant difference.

I use a 50/50 mix to start, that is for broadcast work, like a full coverage base coat. I make adjustments as determined by test spray results. The majority of my work is at a psi of 15 to 20. I use Badger gravity feed airbrushes.

I know it sounds contrary to the general method for thinning, but this works for me. I will often end with a thinning ratio of 60/75 percent thinner to paint, for smaller areas like gear wells, cockpits and such. It is watery, but sprays very well, just be careful to avoid runs. With practice it is amazingly easy to control and produces some really nice, smooth coats. And remember, the thinner the paint, the more you have to reduce the paint flow. You can't have a wide open blast when paint is thinned more.

Try a new bottle, THOROUGHLY stir the contents to a smooth blend, transfer to a small container and add thinner, get some scrap plastic and start just varying thinning ratios, psi and distance to the surface. In general about one or two inches will be enough to prevent the rough, pebbly finish as shown in your example.

I'll be surprised if you don't quickly find finishes that you like, once you've tested enough to learn what works best for you. Good luck, let us know how it goes if you find time.

Patrick 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Wednesday, January 1, 2020 6:06 PM

I like the results I get from using Tamiya Lacquer Thinner instead.Iso never worked for me,came out dry,chalky.

Vallejo Model Color or Panzer Aces needs thinning and their Flow improver.

  • Member since
    May 2011
Posted by dazzjazz on Wednesday, January 8, 2020 3:49 AM

Thanks for the great advice Patrick! 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Wednesday, January 8, 2020 6:40 AM
Hey your welcome,anytime.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Wednesday, January 8, 2020 10:00 AM

keavdog
What are you thinking with?

I can't speak for the OP, but being a man, I think with the same thing all other men do, John.

dj, you mention you have been having no trouble with Vallejo. What concerns me here is whatever you are thinning your Vallejo with will not work with Tamiya, and you haven't addressed the question what are you thinning with.

Process of elimination and all that.

Patrick makes a good point. I've been at this a while and every time I try a new paint, seems to be a new adventure. I think we all understand.

  • Member since
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Posted by dazzjazz on Wednesday, January 8, 2020 3:18 PM

I use X20A for thinning. Isn't that fine for all acrylic paints?

  • Member since
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  • From: The Deep Woods
Posted by Tickmagnet on Wednesday, January 8, 2020 3:50 PM

dazzjazz

I use X20A for thinning. Isn't that fine for all acrylic paints?

 

Not sure but a good question to see if anyone has ever tried.

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Wednesday, January 8, 2020 4:33 PM

Tickmagnet

 

 
dazzjazz

I use X20A for thinning. Isn't that fine for all acrylic paints?

 

 

 

Not sure but a good question to see if anyone has ever tried.

 

I wouldnt use it for Vallejo,smells like its alcohol based.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Wednesday, January 8, 2020 7:28 PM

dazzjazz

I use X20A for thinning. Isn't that fine for all acrylic paints?

 

No, but that's the ticket for Tamiya. Yes

So the good news is you are thinning with the right stuff. Bad news is I have no idea why you are having trouble with the Tamiya. I seldom use it, but it generally airbrushes like a dream.

  • Member since
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  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Wednesday, January 8, 2020 7:53 PM

Greg
and you haven't addressed the question what are you thinning with.

 

It would also help to know which airbrush you're using. I wouldn't want to try airbrushing Tamiya metallics with anything with less than a 0.3mm nozzle. I use a 0.35 brush and that seems to be right on the limit.

Generally speaking, all the suggestions above are fine for the regular Tamiya paints. their metallics are a slightly different animal.

I find that the metallic pigments in Tamiya's paints are quite coarse/heavy and have a tendency to settle out of suspension quite quickly if the paint is thinned too much. Non-metallic Tamiya paints can be thinned quite heavily and still give great coverage. This is not quite so with the metallics.

If you go much past one part X-20A thinner to two parts paint, particularly with a gravity feed brush, the metallic particles settle quickly and the airbrush action is not smooth. It will start to spray and then stop. Pull the trigger back a little more and it will shoot shiny clumps of concentrated metallic particles without much of the carrier colour. 

If you are using a siphon feed brush, you can swish the paint around in the jar to keep the particles suspended. If using a gravity feed, you need to work quickly and get it done before the particles settle in the bottom of the paint cup. Use a slightly higher than typical pressure for Tamiya (say 22-25PSI).

I've been using Tamiya acrylics since they hit the market nearly 40 years ago and while I love using the regular colours, the thought of airbrushing the metallics is still intimidating. You never know how they're going to behave on any given day. With the rapid settling of the metallic pigments, conditions change from moment to moment.

  • Member since
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Posted by oldermodelguy on Thursday, January 9, 2020 8:09 AM

Just out of curiosity sake, has the OP gotten Tamiya paint of any sort spraying yet ?

  • Member since
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  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, January 9, 2020 8:52 AM

I dont' think dazzjazz is using metallic paint, Phil. My interpretation is that he is describing the blotchy effect he is getting as 'metallic'. Even if I'm the one misreading, I agree with your nozzle/needle size comments. Also, it has me thinking about the general state of the airbrush....

.....is it clean and clear of blockages and baked on crud? Phil is on point, you got me/us thinking about thinners, but making sure the airbrush is like-new clean is always the first step when stuff life sprurting and blotching happens.

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Thursday, January 9, 2020 9:10 AM

Yes, I had brought that point up early on in the thread after he tried Tamiya, went back to Vallejo which previously sprayed fine but now had trouble with that too.

I have my theory on this ( which is why I removed all my previous text in my early messages, not relevent to a plugged airbrush). I suspect but don't know for sure yet, that he clogged his brush up using Tamiya thinner(or had some remaining Tamiya paint in the chambers of the brush) in Vallejo paint. So nothing was spraying right. IE cross contamination, which can be a real mess to get good and clean.  It's just a guess at this point till we hear more.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, January 9, 2020 10:38 AM

That's a good theory, OMG. Seems it crossed my mind too, but apparently I neglected to mention it.

Sorry I missed your earlier post. It's a peeve of mine, folk who read the OP then jump to a response without reading further comments. All judgement ceases on threads more than one page long, though. In this case, I must proclaim myself guilty.

  • Member since
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Posted by oldermodelguy on Thursday, January 9, 2020 12:58 PM

NP Greg. I dumped that info anyway.

  • Member since
    May 2011
Posted by dazzjazz on Thursday, January 9, 2020 3:57 PM

Hi everyone,

Thanks again for all the help. Between the advice here and some more viewing of Youtube, I've had some success which can be viewed in this Dropbox folder https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8cyjcv3z2bj67p1/AACkS9PF_DuMyP3eB_W-_O-0a?dl=0

The paints on the upper surfaces are Vallejo Dark Ocean Gray and Tamiya RAF Green.

I can't seem to upload photos here (I'm not currently a subscriber?) and while I have a Photobucket account, the links aren't working.

Perhaps the thing that made the biggest difference was the reminder to make the paint the consistency of milk. 

After watching an excellent video on airbrush cleaning, I found that I had a huge build up of paint in the rear of the brush. Not sure how that happened. Luckily it hasn't happened again. 

My airbrush is a Sparmax 3 (0.3mm) and the air compressor is a Sparmax Arism mini. Obviously, this is my first 6 months of airbrushing.

I will invest in some high percentage Isopropyl alcohol.

For the record, I'm not using metallic paints - just getting unwanted results that look metallic.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, January 9, 2020 5:09 PM

I think this is understood, but just in case:

Alcohol + Vallejo = A horrible, gummy, darned near impossible to clean mess.

Do NOT use Tamiya X20 thinner (alcohol-based) with Vallejo. Do not use the iso you are planning to buy with Vallejo. Do not use either to clean your airbrush after using Vallejo.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Thursday, January 9, 2020 5:47 PM

My apologies for getting a little off-track talking about Tamiya metallic paints. At first glance, what I saw in the pic resembled what happens when I have a bad day with Tamiya metallic grey.

Looking more closely, I'd agree with everyone else, either the paint isn't thin enough and/or the brush needs a good cleaning. 

As per the most recent post, I think we have found our culprit/s.

dazzjazz
Perhaps the thing that made the biggest difference was the reminder to make the paint the consistency of milk. After watching an excellent video on airbrush cleaning, I found that I had a huge build up of paint in the rear of the brush. Not sure how that happened. Luckily it hasn't happened again.

As Greg has said, don't use any form of alcohol with Vallejo acrylics or you're going to have a very bad day.

If you're painting with gloss Tamiya acrylics, stick with the X-20A or use Tamiya's lacquer thinner. I find that alternative alcohols (Ispropyl or denatured alcohol) tend to make the gloss paints dry too quickly and give a duller finish. 

If you're using Tamiya flat acrylics, you can also use denatured alcohol (aka methylated spirits). I like to run my Tamiya acrylics very thin and have taken it as far as 80% thinner/20% paint without any problems.

Remember the rule though. When you make the paint thinner, you need to lower the air pressure and bring the brush closer to the surface you're painting. If you're using a 0.3mm Sparmax (Max-3?), it'll go down to around 13-15 PSI and still cover, depending on how thin your paint is. 

As with all things airbrush, practice, practice, practice. 

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Thursday, January 9, 2020 6:27 PM

I've never use denatured alcohol with Tamiya paints but do use 91% isopropyl with good results. Glosses still dry glossy with ipa but not as glossy as with lacquer thinner, it's in a way almost more nartural a gloss especially if hand rubbing is in the cards at all. I also use the original formula Kleen Strip lacquer thinner which is rated medium dry. But I use a little retarder in the mix. Glosses come out very glossy with the lacquer thinner, even almost a wet look and that includes the clear gloss and clear colors..

Vallejo is it's own product with it's own support products. Tamiya and Vallejo, as acrylics go, are about as opposite in terms of mixes and handling as you can get lol !! Make sure your airbrush is spiffy clean before crossing over to the opposite brand in either direction. And of course I agree, if it smells at all like any form of alcohol don't put in Vallejo paint, especially the MC which is especially allergic it seems.

By the way, if you ever get to playing with spraying craft paints for what ever reason, DecoArt craft paint seems to have the same reaction as Vallejo does to alcohol. But it's delayed, it looks like it mixed fine, then you get it in the brush and it starts spitting, then turns to a membrane of gel like substance. The best description I could give is like half cured silicone sealer . Oh what a mess to clean all through and the brush !!!

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Thursday, January 9, 2020 6:47 PM

oldermodelguy
I've never use denatured alcohol with Tamiya paints but do use 91% isopropyl with good results.

Here in Australia, high concentration Iso is quite expensive (roughly $19 USD for 500ml) from a hardware store. Methylated Spirits (aka denatured alcohol) on the other hand, equates to about $2.50 USD per litre. I find the denatured alcohol seems to wet better than the Iso, and both wet better than X-20A.

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Thursday, January 9, 2020 7:22 PM

Phil_H

 

 
oldermodelguy
I've never use denatured alcohol with Tamiya paints but do use 91% isopropyl with good results.

 

Here in Australia, high concentration Iso is quite expensive (roughly $19 USD for 500ml) from a hardware store. Methylated Spirits (aka denatured alcohol) on the other hand, equates to about $2.50 USD per litre. I find the denatured alcohol seems to wet better than the Iso, and both wet better than X-20A.

 

Ya that's costly for sure, 91 ipa here is about $3 for 430 or so ml. . I have denatured too and use it in my wood turning to make friction polish. I haven't tried it in Tamiya acrylic, I'll have to give that whirl and see what I come up with ( I love painting experiments).

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