Priming for lacquers....or not

I do always prime for lacquer.  Auto primer works great.  I also use the Tamiya stuff.

Lately I have done some experiments with newer Alclad colors.  I have used them right on the plastic.  They have a new high sheen aluminum that works well over any color plastic as long as the plastic surface is smooth and not scratched up.  There steel is a nice dark color and can be built up so it is not very transparent, and it still leaves a great metallic look.  But for normal colors I seem to get a better first color coat if I prime.

I'm not up on all the latest model lacquers but will just say that I would prime for all the usual reasons one primes. The recent lacquers I have shot I shot over stynylrez. In the past over lacquer primers.

Additionally, some of the new lacquers that have come out lately aren't particularly hot solvent lacquers. Like AK Real Colors lacquer for instance are acrylic lacquer that can be thinned with most any thinner. It likes LT, IPA or even Vallejo and LifeColor thinner. It's not happiest with Tamiya X-20a but it will work, so this stuff is a bit different from Tamiya acrylic. I might give these a shot along the way myself.

Great feedback, most helpful. Thanks Tojo, Don, OMG.

These are the points from each of your comments that helped me the most;

Tojo72

Well you can prime if you are looking for flaws and for sanding prep,but its not necessary for paint adhesion with lacquers on plastic

That makes perfect sense.

Don Stauffer

....for normal colors I seem to get a better first color coat if I prime.

You know, you're right. I guess I knew this on some level, but not the level I needed to. I do now.

oldermodelguy

I'm not up on all the latest model lacquers but will just say that I would prime for all the usual reasons one primes.

I guess that pretty much sums it up.

This may all seem odd to you guys, but I got into priming by rote, just so the color coat stays put. Sort of forgot, took for granted, or overlooked all the things y'all pointed out.

Again, helpful, thanks.

Curious, Greg, about what brand lacquer you have in mind to try ?

Greg,

I'm in the "always prime" crowd, not only for the reasons already stated, but for consistency of colors as well.  I use the Tamiya Surface Primer for everything.  I always have a bunch of it decanted into a mason jar so its ready for airbrushing.  That has eliminated all of the hiccups I've had as a result of things that are inherent to spray cans.  Even the Tamiya spray nozzle lays things on a little too thick for my liking.  But...just my preference.

I agree with premise of priming for color consistency especially if you have strange or wrong color plastic,but if you have nice light grey steyrene,a good lacquer or enamel paint,why would I prime for color.

oldermodelguy

Curious, Greg, about what brand lacquer you have in mind to try ?

 

MRP (Mr Paint....not to be confused with the Gunze line of "Mister this and that"). I bought some colors to paint my F4-J.

I've done just a couple of test sprays but lovin' it so far. I have a side panel masked off ready to shoot today. That'll be the first real color coat.

Eaglecash867

Greg,

I'm in the "always prime" crowd, not only for the reasons already stated, but for consistency of colors as well.  I use the Tamiya Surface Primer for everything.  I always have a bunch of it decanted into a mason jar so its ready for airbrushing.  That has eliminated all of the hiccups I've had as a result of things that are inherent to spray cans.  Even the Tamiya spray nozzle lays things on a little too thick for my liking.  But...just my preference.

 

Thanks. I've been an always prime guy too ever since my first masking tape pull up on my return to the hobby in '17. (EDIT: should be '13....oops!)

I'm planning on following y'alls advice and sticking to the protocol with lacquer.

Tojo72

I agree with premise of priming for color consistency especially if you have strange or wrong color plastic,but if you have nice light grey steyrene,a good lacquer or enamel paint,why would I prime for color.

 

And that goes back to the core of my question. So as long as everything else is ok (Color coverage; not worried, surface ready for color coat, check) I can spray away and not worry about adhesion.

It just occured to me that if I choose to use lacquer colors on smaller detail pieces that I want to paint separately, I could skip the primer. That would be a time-saver for me since I paint most of my parts separately before assy.

More food for thought, thanks.

Greg

 

 

Tojo72

I agree with premise of priming for color consistency especially if you have strange or wrong color plastic,but if you have nice light grey steyrene,a good lacquer or enamel paint,why would I prime for color.

 

 

 

 

And that goes back to the core of my question. So as long as everything else is ok (Color coverage; not worried, surface ready for color coat, check) I can spray away and not worry about adhesion.

It just occured to me that if I choose to use lacquer colors on smaller detail pieces that I want to paint separately, I could skip the primer. That would be a time-saver for me since I paint most of my parts separately before assy.

More food for thought, thanks.

 

 

 

I would, priming is not always needed, sometimes we get in habits, I use primer, but not always.

Greg

 

 

oldermodelguy

Curious, Greg, about what brand lacquer you have in mind to try ?

 

 

 

 

MRP (Mr Paint....not to be confused with the Gunze line of "Mister this and that"). I bought some colors to paint my F4-J.

I've done just a couple of test sprays but lovin' it so far. I have a side panel masked off ready to shoot today. That'll be the first real color coat.

 

Ya lacquer can be kind of a dream come true to spray, to me especially on smaller areas or masks and markings etc.. And MRP is supposed to be good stuff.

But primer: I'm forced into the position of wondering why MRP has a primer for this line of paint. Just thinking out loud.

oldermodelguy

But primer: I'm forced into the position of wondering why MRP has a primer for this line of paint. Just thinking out loud.

That's a valid question, I think.

In the meantime, during my test spray sessions with a couple MRP lacquers, I did some scratch testing and it seems to be at least as tough as Tamiya fine and stynylrez from the adherence angle. Undoubtedly more so from the standpoint of the hardness and durability of the exterior finish.

Stuff's like a rock. Not likely becuase it is MRP, more likely becuase it is lacquer. Maybe some of you remember the first time you shot lacquer, and can understand my surprise.

Greg

 

That's a valid question, I think.

In the meantime, during my test spray sessions with a couple MRP lacquers, I did some scratch testing and it seems to be at least as tough as Tamiya fine and stynylrez from the adherence angle. Undoubtedly more so from the standpoint of the hardness and durability of the exterior finish.

Stuff's like a rock. Not likely becuase it is MRP, more likely becuase it is lacquer. Maybe some of you remember the first time you shot lacquer, and can understand my surprise.

 

Ya lacquer tends to be hard. There are so many different lacquer properties these days I wouldn't pretend to keep up. Unheard of things 20-30 years back or there abouts. Hard but does it break it's bond a year or two down the road might be one question I'd have. I can think of automotive lacquers to which that was the case if shot on something unprimed. Course that's 1/1 with tough weather conditions and such going on.

Something happens in my scratch tests, Greg. For instance, primer might be soft and mar with my thumbnail, but not totally flake off. A certain top coat paint might be quite hard but dig through it and it scrapes off practically in sheets ( talking on bare plastic here and MM acrylic was great for this phenomenon but some solvent paint as well). But put the hard paint over the softer primer and it's very scratch resistant, sucks right on and bonds great. I only use my nails in my scratch tests but ya know everyone raves about enamel on plastic like the gold standard and indeed it does stick decent.. In my tests though, it might stick pretty decent but it sticks with a much tighter bond over primer. I've done that test with MM on Stynylrez actually. But I have not tested MRP lacquer. I have tested LA Colors lacquer nail polish which dries very hard with good surface durability but dig your nail in a bit and off it comes without primer . I have to say with that lacquer I was very surprised to see that. And I was using some LA Colors on some black model parts and primed first. Came out great. I don't know, I'm just blabbing here stalling off cutting grass lol ! Maybe it will cool down in an hour or two.

Sorry to be late here Greg but saw this now. I never prime unless the kit has multiple colors or there are resin add ons or extensive sanding and filling in certain areas. Here I prime to make sure the repaired areas are good to go and the multiple colored parts don't end up looking like The Partridge Family bus.

Alclad recommends priming first specially the high shine colors so i prime when using Alclad. I have brushed on Alclad on bare plastic small parts and it looks fine, just needs a couple of coats to cover the part. I have used Tamiya, AK and Mr. Color lacquers without priming without issues.

It's up to you if you want to prime or not unless the particular product says you have to.

Good reading, OMG, and you have a ways to go to take the ramble award from me.

I get you on all points, it seems I can relate to each of them. I sure can about the unprimed MM coming off in big sheets! And Stynylrez will shiny up at the scratch test surface, but stay put. Interesting that you have experience with one lacquer that actually pulled up.

Thanks for the input, and hope you got your grass mowed the other day.

Ernie, it's always a treat to hear from you, late or on time, no matter. Thanks for letting me know that you don't normally prime with lacquer. I was surprised at all the pro-prime responses, actually. I guess I thought most lacquer users don't prime. Thanks for letting me know your way.

Lots of great info on both ways of doing it here, and as I start spraying lacquer colors, now I'll have some reasons for priming or not priming.

Greg-

MRP the stuff from Slovakia?  I heard great things about that paint.  I want to order some for my upcoming F16.  My understanding is Hobbyworld USA and direct from Slovakia is the only place to get it.  How did you acquire it and how long to reach you? 

Sprue Bros carry MRP. I just got some from SB.

How long did it take for delivery?

wpwar11

How long did it take for delivery?

 

ordered saturday got it weds.

These paints?  That’s amazing you got it so fast.  Ive heard nothing but ridiculouslay long delivery times as most of it is back ordered.

yep.

go to Sprue Brothers and search for MRP paints. They have a bunch in stock.

Looks like PJ has you covered, but FWIW I bought mine from Sprue Bros as well, got the order on the third day too.

Somebody had recommended another supplier further west, but it just so happened Sprue Bros stock of what I wanted at the time was better.

So Ernie, I just painted a teeny-tiny little canopy lever with MRP Black, more or less for the fun of it. By the time I cleaned the a/b, part was ready to snip off the sprue, handle, clean up and install. Stuff seems to dry faster than Stynylrez, which is really fast.

Went great, and I'm thrilled to have been able to do that whole process in like 10 mins, most of which was cleaning the a/b.

But if the paint falls off from no primer, I know who I'm going to run whining to.

I like the service at SB.  I’ll head that way now.  Thanks

Ha ha Greg! The stuff dries purdy quick like Mr Color and Tamiya. Being lacquers they are fast operators.

wpwar11

I like the service at SB.  I’ll head that way now.  Thanks

 

plasticjunkie

Being lacquers they are fast operators.

Waiting for paint to dry is a part of why I'm so slow. I'm looking forward to building up a better inventory of lacquers.

Say, wpwar....

I think MrPaint changed their labeling, so don't panic when you get your paints and they look like mine (recently acquired)....

I purchased several paints.  I had no idea they carried these.  You should get a commission.