Few last questions before buying the HP-CS

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Few last questions before buying the HP-CS

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 7:06 PM

Hi guys!

Sorrey for nagging Shy [8)]

about this for over a week now, but I've got to have answers before this big (at least for me....) purchase.

I'm used to the Paasche VL. And I am used for a "clear-sight" over the brush (above it), it seems to me that the 1/3 Oz. cup is big enough to block the view. Would'nt you agree? I know it's a matter of practice, but it also seems I would have problems applying mottling at the wing root area of german aircraft, and such "tight" places. what do think?

A solution to that is the HP-BS, but the cup 1/16 Oz. seems too small, I also build 1:35 armor and big aircraft (Me 321 gigant 1:72). and planning one day to buy trump's Leopold. Looks like there is'nt enough room for paint over there.

Like I said I had the VL, it had the nomber 1 needle. I dont know the size of it.
What I mean is the Eclipses has 3.5mm needle. when I measured mine with a caliper it read 2mm. Somewhere around the forum it was mentioned that it's 3mm.
Does the eclipse has a wider needle?
Where do you measure a needle, if not at it's widdest diameter?
So what gives?

Thanks again guys Cool [8D]

. I really need these answers, I just got to know...

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 7:21 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by ShModeler

A solution to that is the HP-BS, but the cup 1/16 Oz. seems too small, I also build 1:35 armor and big aircraft (Me 321 gigant 1:72). and planning one day to buy trump's Leopold. Looks like there is'nt enough room for paint over there.

How about a side-feed like the Omni 6000 then? That is another alternative. Wink [;)]

QUOTE: Like I said I had the VL, it had the nomber 1 needle. I dont know the size of it.
What I mean is the Eclipses has 3.5mm needle. when I measured mine with a caliper it read 2mm. Somewhere around the forum it was mentioned that it's 3mm.
Does the eclipse has a wider needle?

The Eclipse needle is .35mm not 3.5mm. Big Smile [:D]

QUOTE: Where do you measure a needle, if not at it's widdest diameter?
So what gives?

The needle diameter means nothing as to how fine of a spray pattern an airbrush will spray anyhow. The only important thing is the needle taper.
Needles that have a longer, sharper taper produce the finest lines.

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 7:53 PM

or an eclipse sbs (does it even exist?) or a hp-sb. they is sidefeed, or you could just buy the eclipse bcs which is bottom feed, and so you can switch colors fast, i dont prefer bottems, they interfeer with fingers.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 8:37 PM

Well, thanks guys but I made up my mind because of the quality of Iwata. I also need gravity feed only.
This time I'm not going to settle for somthing less. Maybe just maybe a Badger 360 is optional. It's cheaper but I'm not sure if it's as good as Iwata. you see my Paasche just broke a couple of times (the screwing between the AB and the hose) and believe me not because of bad handling!!! I was the most gentle with it (her, really).
Iwata guys please tell me what do you think of what I wrote above. thanks!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 9:01 PM

I just bought the hp-cs and I think know it was the best investment I ever made in my modeling career. Cool [8D]

I know you have concerns about the gravity feed cup being on the top, and I had the same concerns too. But as soon as I actually sprayed with it, I adjusted with it and learned that the gravity feed cup on top isn't as big a deal as I thought it would, in fact it really doesn't matter to me. I can AB just as well with it there and I can still see the target perfectly well. I mean C'mon, were not aiming down the sights of a rifle barrel here, it's an AB. I hold my AB's at a slight angle to the left (I'm right-handed). And the eclipse has a .35 mm needle, not to be confused with 3.5mm (now my math teacher's advice, "the decimal matters" comes into practice!). I am convinced it can go smaller than that, but thats pretty small acording to me. I love it and, besides my glue, it's the most important device I have and it's also the device with the best quality in my whole range of tools. If you get it, I really don't need to say this because it's a by-product of buying the hp-cs, but enjoy! Cool [8D]

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saltydog

Member since
July 2003
From: Lower Alabama

Posted by saltydog on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 9:07 PM

shahar,
the way that i hold my hp-cs the cup never gets close to my line of vision to the subject. also, i can get the gravity feed in any tight spot that a bottom feed can get for sure. put the color cup being in the way out of your mind my friend and stand by for a very nice airbrush. the hp-cs is an excellent choice. it would be very uncomfortable to hold the airbrush to where the cup would be in your line of vision to the subject. you'd have a weird and uncomfortable bend in your wrist. later.

ps i went to israel back in 93' while i was in the navy. we docked in haifa (i think that is the way thats spelled). i really enjoyed the hospitality of the israeli's. we toured all the religious sites which were very, very interesting. later.

Chris

The Origins of Murphy's Law: "In the begginning there was nothing, and it exploded."!!! _________ chris

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 10:46 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by ShModeler

Well, thanks guys but I made up my mind because of the quality of Iwata. I also need gravity feed only.
This time I'm not going to settle for somthing less. Maybe just maybe a Badger 360 is optional. It's cheaper but I'm not sure if it's as good as Iwata.

If you have decided that you want an Iwata then you should buy one, but don't think for a minute that Badger are not just as good. The 360 is a really nice airbrush but the cup is pretty small and works best for smaller jobs.
I personally think the Omni 4000 is as good as the HP-CS and Iwata used the Omni as a model to which they copied and made the Eclipse. There are those that innovate and then there are those that copy. Laugh [(-D]

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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roosterfish

Member since
November 2003
From: Stockton CA USA

Posted by roosterfish on Thursday, April 29, 2004 1:34 AM

The Japanese copied the American car and made it better quality and nicer tolerances to the benefit of the end user. Ditto the VCR, CD, DVD, TV, radios, cameras, models and more.

The Japanese copied an American airbrush and made it better quality and nicer tolerances to the benefit of the end user.

Winners never quit; quitters never win.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 29, 2004 5:53 AM

Thanks guys!
Mike, 1337, ArmorMaster ,Chris ,Billy ,Richard Kinsey ,Joao Sampaio, Dicky, Greg Williams and Josh Allen. thank you for going with my thoughts, considering and reconsidering. You sure helped me a lot!!!!!! you guys are the Cool [8D]

est!

and...
Yes I know it's 0.35mm, I guess I was in a hurrey not to forget any of my questions. call it a slip of a finger. 3.5mm hmm... soung like a huge spray gun Wink [;)]

QUOTE: we docked in haifa (i think that is the way thats spelled). i really enjoyed the hospitality of the israeli's. we toured all the religious sites which were very, very interesting. later.

Chris, you just gave me a nice memmory!!! When I was a teenager the U.S.S. Wasp docked in haifa, and I was one of the luckiest guys to go onboard! what a feeling! I could touch seeknights and Harriers and get lost inside the never ending maze. I know it's much smaller then an aircraft carrier, BUT IT WAS HUGE!!! and the people were so nice! every one was friendly and smiling!

Maybe one day I'll visit "Sweet home Alabama" Big Smile [:D]

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 29, 2004 5:54 AM

Oh forget to say it's gonna be Eclipse HP-CS!
well is'nt that obviouse?!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 29, 2004 6:38 AM

Watch it roosterfish. The way I see both of you post, MikeV has just dropped a smart bomb on your sci-fi spacecraft! Big Smile [:D]

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roosterfish

Member since
November 2003
From: Stockton CA USA

Posted by roosterfish on Thursday, April 29, 2004 9:26 AM

I have a quality spacecraft that can stand up to abuse. I made sure it would. My first one was abused by the worst in 1983 when they first came to the US. They tried to destroy it and tear it down. They went away amazed at what it will do. A lot of people have converted to Iwata since then.

I'm not complete down on US products. We do make a good Mag Lite flashlight.

Winners never quit; quitters never win.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 29, 2004 9:46 AM

ShModeler: I didn't want to sound nit-picky and arrogant about the needle thing Blush [:I]

It's fine, we all make mistakes, just wanted to make sure everyone else looking at this knows the real size of the needle. But I know you will enjoy! Big Smile [:D]

Here's a freehand camo scheme I did with the hp-cs and this is a 1:70 scale tank, which is about the size of your computer mouse. I know you gonna like! Big Smile [:D]

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Thursday, April 29, 2004 7:17 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by roosterfish

The Japanese copied the American car and made it better quality and nicer tolerances to the benefit of the end user.

That was true back in the 70's and 80's but not anymore.

QUOTE: Ditto the VCR, CD, DVD, TV, radios, cameras, models and more.

Can you even name one American company that produces VCR's, CD', DVD's or TV's? Laugh [(-D]

QUOTE: The Japanese copied an American airbrush and made it better quality and nicer tolerances to the benefit of the end user.

Comparing apples to apples, the Eclipse is not better quality than the Anthem, or Omni, that is just your opinion.
Some of the other higher-priced Iwata's may be better but then it is not a fair comparison. Compare those to the Badger Sotar 20/20 and we are back to equal ground again.

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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saltydog

Member since
July 2003
From: Lower Alabama

Posted by saltydog on Thursday, April 29, 2004 7:31 PM

QUOTE: Maybe one day I'll visit "Sweet home Alabama"

your not missin' much my friend, but come on. what i remember most about the visit to israel was the locals brought freshly baked bagels and cream cheese to our ship every morning and man was it wonderful. as a matter of fact, i eat a bagel with cream cheese most every morning for breakfast even now.

Chris

The Origins of Murphy's Law: "In the begginning there was nothing, and it exploded."!!! _________ chris

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roosterfish

Member since
November 2003
From: Stockton CA USA

Posted by roosterfish on Thursday, April 29, 2004 8:07 PM

So all the Japanese now make worse products and Americans make better than the Japanese now? I'll let the readers answer that one.

I know of quite a few professional illustrators and prop makers that have dropped their Badgers and T&C and have gone to Iwatas then never went back. I think they would know better than me what would be a good airbrush.

Why would they they want to spend more money on a Japanese product that Mike says is only equal or substandard to an American product? Maybe we should be telling those professional illustrators and prop makers what airbrush to really buy?

Winners never quit; quitters never win.

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Thursday, April 29, 2004 8:25 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by roosterfish

So all the Japanese now make worse products and Americans make better than the Japanese now? I'll let the readers answer that one.

Did I say that? You read much more into a post then was there.
Have you even understood the gist of my argument all along?
It is not about what airbrush is the "best" it is about what people prefer as they are a personal choice. To say Iwata is the best is only a subjective opinion as Badger, Thayer & Chandler, Paasche, Harder & Steenbeck, Sata, and many others all produce an excellent product.

QUOTE: I know of quite a few professional illustrators and prop makers that have dropped their Badgers and T&C and have gone to Iwatas then never went back. I think they would know better than me what would be a good airbrush.

I also know professional artists who don't care for Iwatas and prefer Badger, Thayer & Chandler, Paasche and even Aztek, but what does that prove? It is just what they like better and are more comfortable with.
To say that one product is better than another product implies that it is superior and I don't see how you can make that statement when comparing airbrushes of the two brands mentioned. If you like Iwata better than all other brands then more power to you as that is your personal choice, but to say it is a better product is misleading if you ask me.

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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saltydog

Member since
July 2003
From: Lower Alabama

Posted by saltydog on Thursday, April 29, 2004 9:02 PM

shahar,
i thought this would be appropriate to share with you since you're from israel. this is my halfway done israeli falcon that i painted with my new hp-cs. it was perfect timing to try out the hp-cs as this bird was ready to paint when the hp-cs arrived. this project has come to a stand still as the remaining parts, instructions, and decals have come up missing and have yet to be found (i suspect my wife chunked it accidentally) so i'll have to buy aftermarket parts to finish it with. i have a couple of coats of future floor polish applied and a wash of dark umber on the right side of the aircraft. like i say, its halfway done, but maybe i'll get back to it someday. later.

Chris

The Origins of Murphy's Law: "In the begginning there was nothing, and it exploded."!!! _________ chris

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 30, 2004 12:24 AM

I would like to become moderator for roosterfish and mikev. Guys, guys, guys, we entered this forum because we all love this hobby and it seems like you're into a heated argument regarding two brands of airbrush. We came here to inquire and advice(share experience) so lets just keep into that and not stray from the tread of the topic starter.
Dicky

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9x19mm

Member since
December 2003
From: Phoenix,Az

Posted by 9x19mm on Friday, April 30, 2004 4:18 AM

So about now we need someone to ask a dumb question. If the taper of the needle is important to fine spray does the Omni have a taper that produces a fine spray?

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 30, 2004 6:32 AM

Armormaster, I cant believe it's actually made of paper! looks real sweet!

Chris your Falcon looks wonderfull, the camo is corect in colour and shape!
Very very nice!
Hope you'll find decals soon. Is it the Hasegawa?
I bet someone have it and can scan it for you, all I have is the Italeri. if that helps let me know.
BTW why the pilot and cockpit are all black?

Chris I visited the US about 4 years ago, and man you got one beautifull country. I've been around different cities and states and I dont remmember anything boring or not intersting. I'm sure Alabama is a nice place to visit just like any other place around U.S.
Heck, to me visiting Boise Idaho, will be a JOY!

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saltydog

Member since
July 2003
From: Lower Alabama

Posted by saltydog on Friday, April 30, 2004 6:47 AM

QUOTE: BTW why the pilot and cockpit are all black?

i built this bird to hang from the cieling of my hobby room/office so i dont spend too much time on the cockpit area because it'll never be seen. i tinted the canopy a little with tamiya smoke and kinda over done it so im stripping and redoing it. i spray the cockpit parts flat black just so if some one looks they'll atleast see a profile of a pilot at the helm.

QUOTE: Is it the Hasegawa?

yes.

QUOTE: Hope you'll find decals soon.

the decals are the least of my worries shahar, i'm missing the drop tanks, exhaust nozzle (the only one i found is $13 and some change!!!). hasegawa offers a armement set but its way up there too. this ones going to have to sit for a while until i regain my motivation to finish it.

ps i'd love to visit idaho too my friend!! also, i'd love to bring my wife to the Holy Land to visit. later.

Chris

The Origins of Murphy's Law: "In the begginning there was nothing, and it exploded."!!! _________ chris

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 30, 2004 7:53 AM

QUOTE: i'd love to bring my wife to the Holy Land to visit. later.

Chris You're Sign - Welcome [#welcome]

!!!

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saltydog

Member since
July 2003
From: Lower Alabama

Posted by saltydog on Friday, April 30, 2004 8:24 AM

thanks shahar, i'll have to save for a while to make it back over there on my budget. Disapprove [V]

the church that i attend puts together Holy Land tours ever so often and maybe we can catch one before too long. if i ever do, i'll look you up my friend. later.

Chris

The Origins of Murphy's Law: "In the begginning there was nothing, and it exploded."!!! _________ chris

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roosterfish

Member since
November 2003
From: Stockton CA USA

Posted by roosterfish on Friday, April 30, 2004 10:00 AM

Excellent looking model Salty. It looks like it would fly.

Sigman is right. No debates. I'd like a person to buy an airbrush because it was his decision and not be badgered into buying one. I wasn't badgered in buying my first airbrush. It was my advantage that I got to try all the popular airbrushes before I picked my favorite. On the flip side I would not dissuade a person from buying an airbrush because of my personal or emotional feelings. I believe when it comes to airbrush features and buy that a person must be objective and not get emotional.

A longer taper on an airbrush will give you more control for making fine lines but will require more throw on the airbrush control. A shorter taper will spray more paint.

Winners never quit; quitters never win.

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Friday, April 30, 2004 11:04 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by roosterfish

Sigman is right. No debates.

Debates are good as long as they are productive, quarrelling is not and that was not my intent. Wink [;)]

My appologies to roosterfish and the forum for getting off-topic of the original subject.

QUOTE: A longer taper on an airbrush will give you more control for making fine lines but will require more throw on the airbrush control. A shorter taper will spray more paint.

I agree.

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 30, 2004 11:14 AM

Ahh, now I would like to thank MikeV and Roosterfish for their gentlemanly actions. As my favorite saying goes, "Alls well that end's well".

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 30, 2004 4:24 PM

Allright, I just want to say that I don't care about any other AB company or whatnot and I really don't give a rat's gahooney if the Japanese copied us or are better than us. All I know is Iwata's HP-CS kicks some butt. I don't know about any other brand AB, well except for Aztek and we all know how I feel (feel's the word?) about Azteks Evil [}:)]

, but Iwata is an awsome AB. Do some research on Badgers and Pashee's and what not, but I can say the Hp-cs will handle any job the needs to be done (execpt for things that need a spraygun and exceptions like that), so Shmodeler, I say again, your gonna like the hp-cs!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 30, 2004 5:26 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by roosterfish

Excellent looking model Salty. It looks like it would fly.

Sigman is right. No debates. I'd like a person to buy an airbrush because it was his decision and not be <b>badgered</b> into buying one. I wasn't badgered in buying my first airbrush. It was my advantage that I got to try all the popular airbrushes before I picked my favorite. On the flip side I would not dissuade a person from buying an airbrush because of my personal or emotional feelings. I believe when it comes to airbrush features and buy that a person must be objective and not get emotional.

A longer taper on an airbrush will give you more control for making fine lines but will require more throw on the airbrush control. A shorter taper will spray more paint.

i wonder who thats refering to Big Smile [:D]

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 30, 2004 7:55 PM

MikeV, we refer debate as "healthy discussion". Big Smile [:D]

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