Tamiya paints and the brush 'o' doom

Ok....did second coat and while the color is now deeper, brush stokes are still very prominent. I tried painting a surface which was previously airbrushed (coincidentally with the exact same Tamiya paint) and while better than the bare plastic parts I painted, there is still no way it could be described as uniform, and ultimatly still not acceptable.

Next will be to try thining it a little, as well as IceDragon's suggestion to overdo it and then quickly spread it.

For me this is worth trying to work out because its just so.....vexing. There's got to be a way. Otherwise, how could the stuff sell so well for so long (without a big "for airbrush use only" warning on the jar )

QUOTE: I believe Tamiya recommends a 3:2 mixture of paint to thinner.

Isnt that pretty much the ratio for airbrushing?

Hi frens

i tot i was alone in this endeavor of the infamous tamiya paint.
Frankly wolf i encounter your probelm every damn time i use the paint

but i found out that the thinner n paint ratio should be exact .

one more thing i encounter, different batch of tamiya paint stroke differently with their thinner. i mean paint like olive green with two different batch tend to have color variation too..

As for airbrush they dries faster in the air than getting to the model , until i ends up with droplets srinter all over ( maybe im lousy at using AB) . worse still if the paint is a mixed paint like grey with light grey or yellow with white . it tend to leaves some sort of whitish color over time after ABed ( this in the end are settle with a vanish coat)

i try ice dragon method b4 , but somehow they have air bubbles coming and dries with holes in it shit!

Now im trying Tho9900 style by gettting small amount of paint out from jar and and onto the pallete, but the downside is to be careful of the ratio again as i need to keep on mixing and testing the solution before applying the paints

arrrgghhhh wat a day , i cant get other type of paint either as there is none here , so im stuck with this this this PAINT aaargh forever

yeah need to let go some steam sorry guys argggh

sorry im really sad sad here

Where can I get this retarder you speak of? Is it cheap?

Update: Success....somewhat.

I just got done trying a slightly thinned mix of XF-63 and genuine Tamiya thinner/retarder. While I STILL did not get what I would consider an acceptable result, the difference in the way it went on is enough to encourage me to pursue it further. While I did not get the even, smooth finish of an enamel, it acted more enamel-like in terms of being able to go back and forth over a spot more than once, even pick up excess in an area I had moved on from with out destroying what was adjacent. I dont know what ratio I had since I experimented with a very small amount...a couple drops in a bottle cap mixed with a few plops of paint (to use the technical term). This may just be a matter of finding a magic ratio and retraining my hand....

QUOTE: Where can I get this retarder you speak of? Is it cheap?

Others may have generic suggestions for you but I beleive in sticking with a product line. In the case of Tamiya, as we've learned in this thread, their acrylic thinner X-20A is also a retarder....a fact which explains why no one seems to have problems airbrushing the stuff, having been thinned with the thinner in question.

Max,

Someone had said earlier in the string that Tamiya thinner has a retarder in it. I dont think its cheap, for thinner, but that's just me. I use a retarder from liquitex that can be found in art stores like Michaels. The bottle is huge and I want to say it cost about $5.00. I havent even put a dent in the amount yet. Whether it works with Tamiya, havent tried it, so I couldnt say. It does work with liquitex brand paint though.
Bocelli, when you say slightly thinned, what kind of ratio are you talking about 2:1, 3:1?

QUOTE: Bocelli, when you say slightly thinned, what kind of ratio are you talking about 2:1, 3:1?

Well like I said I'm not sure because it was just a trial and I was using so very little, litterally a couple drops of thinner and a few drops of paint. At a guess maybe it was 4:1 paint/thinner. Didnt seem as thin as an airbrush mix (which last time I did one was 2:1 - 3:1 since I tend to follow manufacturer's instructions to the letter). Now that I'm on to something I'm going to start getting scientific (measure my amounts), and find a "magic ratio".

I am convinced now, the paint IS good. Its just a matter of getting this right...

Copy...then like any good slug worth his measure, I shall wait for your published results then try them myself.

Tamiya thinner is VERY expensive in the 30ml bottle... in the big 750ml bottle it lasts forever (over many many models) and it's about the same price as the 30ml bottle. ($4.50 for the small, like $6.50 for the large) I've had the same bottle for a long time now... at least 6 months and 10 painted fuselages (some never finished but the main painting done)

Another modeler was having similar problems in another post topic. This is the response I offered with regard to the methods I use with Tamiya acrylic with great results:

"I thought I was by myself when it comes to my discontent with MM Acryl, seems I am not alone gobears01. I have the same dificulties with it, specifically, I can't get it to spray consistant fine lines for more than 5 seconds when airbrushing my modern jet camo schemes! ARRRRGHH!!!!. Tried all the popular alternate and house-brand thinner for MM Acryl with no relief. My solution, I donated all the Acryl and stocked up with Tamiya. Boy what a difference! It thins beautifully with a 50/50 alcohol/ water mix and it cleans up completely with good ol' Windex. Fine lines are a breeze, consistant and predicable spraying characteristics with very minimal "tip-dry", if at all. For brush painting, I mix in a drop of alcohol/ water into the paint color. A small amount of dish soap added retards the rapid drying of the paint. To solve the dilema of weather to use a primer before painting with acrylic, I thin the first color coat with Laquer thinner. Yes, you read this right, laquer thinner! Laquer thinner can thin Tamiya acrylics beautifully- sprays like silk, and bites the underlying styrene like enamels, providing a very durable film. This is great becuase I can now use masking tapes over it with no fear of pulling up the paint layer underneath. For the rest of the colors, I simply thin the paint and airbrush normally using the alcohol/ water thinner. For over 20 years, I was a die-hard enamel user. Nowadays, Tamiya has help me produce the most realistic 1/72nd scale replicas in my modeling career, with an acrylic paint! Try the methods I've described above and good luck. Happy modeling!"

PS: My total (almost) acrylic finishing supplies:

1. Paints: Tamiya (all colors)
2. Paint references: Flyttblocksv Urban Fredrickson's color matching reference
3. Thinner: 50% alcohol + 50% Distilled water + dish soap(retarder)
4. Airbrush & Tool Cleaner: Windex
5. Special Thinner: Laquer thinner (for thinning Tamiya acrylic for super strong adhesion) primer color coat only. (2:1 mix)
6. Clear coats
(a) Gloss: Future floor finish
(b) Flat: Delta Ceramcoat, Matt interior varnish (waterbased, low odor, non-toxic)
(c) Satin: Delta Ceramcoat, satin interior varnish (waterbased, low odor, non-toxic)
7. Washes: Tamiya heavily thinned with water with dishsoap added (Sudge-wash)
8. Airbrush: Iwata Revolution HP-CR (general spraying), Iwata HP-C (detailing and camo outlining)

Here is the original thread:
http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=47273

Hopefully my luck with Tamiya, it will catch on. Good luck!

QUOTE: I shall wait for your published results then try them myself.

Try a 4:1 Paint/Tamiya thinner. That seems to be the ticket. You'll have to train yourself to get the right amount on the brush for a given area and then just move it arround like IceDragon/Brian said and leave it. There is enough shrinkage that a slight overfill of lines, inner edges, and detials will dry themselves out. Takes 2 to 4 coats for an acceptable finish depending of wether you are doing light on dark, dark on light, light on light, or dark on dark, and 24 hours between identical coats is a must (though it would be ok after an hour to work next to what you just painted).

I'm still going to airbrush the Tamiya for the base coat but handbrushing small stuff is now doable for me to the point I'm going to give away the last of my enamels and stock up on Tamiya, including a big 250ml thinner!

Now the question becomes: Is it ok to store paint which has been mixed 4:1, or will some sort of strange thing happen? Will the retarder loose its effect...?

OK!!! Tried it and liked it Bocelli. The stuff actually worked well, although like you said, 3 coats. That's fine I'm used to multiple coats for a project, just not the paint lifting.

Greg, gonna give your laquer thinner base coat a try. Never would have thought to use it in that manner. When you say 2:1 is it paint to thinner or thinner to paint?

you can use mr retarder from gunze. normally 20% is enough (it takes longer to dry). the more of it you add the longer time it need to dry , but paint is casting together perfectly