Looking to buy first airbrush setup!

I've gone through 4 different brands of airbrush in the 25 years I've been modeling, and Iwata is the best overall performer.

The HP-BCS is a great brush for multi-tasking, spraying large areas or doing relatively fine work. If you're doing helmets, tanks, guitars or vans (yup, done them all), then the BCS is perfect. The HP-SBS is also good if you're using heavier paints.

If you want super-fine details, the Micron C and C+ are the way to go. They're expensive and sometimes fussy, but you can spray a 1/16" line with no troubles whatsoever.

I currently have 4 Iwata brushes that I use on a regular basis, an HP-BCS, an HP-SBS, a Micron C+, and an HP-SB+. Each has a specific use and I try to stick the brush that performs that task best. My Badger, Paasche, Binks, and Aztec haven't seen the light of day in nearly 10 years.

Don't try to find a brush that will do everything, it's simply not out there. You can find some great all-around brushes, but in the end, if you're looking to do specialty work, then a specialty brush is what you'll need.

Above all else, airbrushing takes talent and practice. I'm not talking about spraying an ambush scheme on a tank model, I'm talking about motorcycle tank art or helmet art.

A good brush and a good compressor should be looked on as an investment. Spending more money on them will make a definitive difference in the long term.

Jeff

Thanks for the link, I just bought the Iwata Micron CB.offered on the site....movin up in the world from my trusty Badger 360.

 

Steve

crockett wrote:

Thanks for the link, I just bought the Iwata Micron CB.offered on the site....movin up in the world from my trusty Badger 360.   Steve

You could have bought a Sotar 20/20 for less money and just as good if not better results.

Jeff Herne wrote:

If you want super-fine details, the Micron C and C+ are the way to go. They're expensive and sometimes fussy, but you can spray a 1/16" line with no troubles whatsoever.

$330-$385 for an airbrush that can spray 1/16" lines?
I can spray 1/16" lines with my Omni 4000 all day long for 1/5 the price.

Oh oh Jeff, now I have to double check with my friend at the body shop. 

I thought he said I would be well armed to tackle any task with the BCS and the HP-C Plus. He did mention the Micron's, but said they were too expensive and I should get the cheaper HP-C Plus because it will do basically the same thing.

I can't agree more about investing in good equipment, especially if you plan on using it to make money. Open my mechanic toolbox and you'll find everything from Craftsman to Snap-On in there. I tried saving money long ago on my first air compressor, that was a mistake, it died in the middle of a $4,000 job and the thing was less than 3 years old. I was messed up for three days of work searching for a replacement and getting it sent to me, another day to wire and plumb it up. I only had five days left before it died to finish the car, the customer wasn't to happy when I told him it was going to be late but he understood.

jhande wrote:

I can't agree more about investing in good equipment, especially if you plan on using it to make money.

I agree about buying good equipment but do you really think a Rolex watch is necessary to tell time when a Seiko or Citizen is just as good at that?

MikeV wrote:

jhande wrote: I can't agree more about investing in good equipment, especially if you plan on using it to make money. I agree about buying good equipment but do you really think a Rolex watch is necessary to tell time when a Seiko or Citizen is just as good at that?

Interesting comparison! Actually, a Japanese quartz watch is MUCH more accurate than a jewel movement European watch. Yes, even the ultra expensive chronometers. It takes a lot of craftsmanship (expensive) to make a mechanical movement (hence rubies encased in oil) to match the electric quartz movement. Dollar for dollar, no matter how you view it, a Seiko and/or Citizen will beat a Rolex over any 30 day time keeping period. Now back to Badger vs Iwata airbrushes......

It's like comparing apples to oranges, because telling time provides you with a piece of intangible information, whereas an airbrush provides you with a service and a product.

I've used a lot of different airbrushes in my day, both professionally and as a hobbyist, and I firmly believe you get what you pay for. Your $100 airbrush may be perfectly suited to the work you do. If it is, then great. But, it's not suited to the work I do, so I moved up in quality and I'm more than happy with the results. Back in the day, I swore that nothing was better than my old Badger 150. Then I picked up an Iwata. Every other brush I've owned has given me some sort of problems. Iwata brushes haven't. They may not be suited to a particular person's methods or techniques, I'm just relating my experience with them. And I have no connection to the company at all, not even through FSM.

It's sort of like why people prefer Chevy to Ford or Dodge or vice versa. They all do the same thing, get you from point A to point B. It's dedication to a brand that has given you a hassle-free experience.

Jeff

Whatever works for you is all that matters Jeff.
I just don't like it when people "perceive" Badger as a "cheap" airbrush and Iwata as being of higher quality. That is total BS.
I know a lot of artists who prefer Iwata also for automotive airbrushing but I think many of them bought it out of the same perception that they are somehow the best.
Don't get me worng, Iwata makes a fantastic airbrush of very high quality, I just don't see the attraction and I do own an HP-CS Eclipse.
It is all a personal choice and I prefer an American made airbrush with superior service anytime to something that does no better and costs an exuberant amount of money for parts.

Jeff Herne, another interesting comparison of apples and oranges as to the above answer to watches and airbrushes. You obviously use an airbrush for very high end artwork. Yes, I've seen some of your work and you are talented with various media and equipment. In my previous life, I used accurate time to the exact second to deliver a service and a product. Some of my peers preferred Rolex, Breitling, and Omega watches. Although they were very famous and expensive aviation watches, they did not get you time over target any better than the Japanese Quartz watches. I think that sort of analogy was what Mike was alluding to in his responses. Some people, and certainly not you or Mike, buy high end Iwata brushes with the thought that it will transform their work. But the hard truth is some people have the talent naturally and some people have to work really hard for the same results. Again it all depends on the hands holding the brush. As a side note, it seems that the Harder and Steenbeck (?) users are starting to view Iwata brushes like Iwata users view Badger brushes. It will be interesting to see if the opinions change as more American users buy those brushes.

 

E

Post Script - Isn't it time for you to run another how to paint with a paint brush articles in FSM ?

MikeV wrote:

crockett wrote: Thanks for the link, I just bought the Iwata Micron CB.offered on the site....movin up in the world from my trusty Badger 360.   Steve You could have bought a Sotar 20/20 for less money and just as good if not better results.

 

Mike,

I am suprised that you of all people would comment on what I spend on any airbrush. The perception that you can do more  with a cheaper brush means nothing to me. I tried this Iwata-I have a family member who makes his living in the industry. He owns over 20 brushes. I don't care how much it costs, I LIKE IT. What/how much value you get for your dollar is your business, and the same goes for me...OK?

 

crockett wrote:

MikeV wrote:  crockett wrote: Thanks for the link, I just bought the Iwata Micron CB.offered on the site....movin up in the world from my trusty Badger 360.   Steve You could have bought a Sotar 20/20 for less money and just as good if not better results.   Mike, I am suprised that you of all people would comment on what I spend on any airbrush. The perception that you can do more  with a cheaper brush means nothing to me. I tried this Iwata-I have a family member who makes his living in the industry. He owns over 20 brushes. I don't care how much it costs, I LIKE IT. What/how much value you get for your dollar is your business, and the same goes for me...OK?

Why does it surprise you that "Me of all people would comment on what you spend?"
Did I miss something? That was a tongue in cheek statement since you said you were, "movin up in the world from my trusty Badger 360."
That is cool that your family member makes his living in the industry and has over 20 airbrushes, I know people who also have made their living since the 60's with an airbrush and own over 100 airbrushes and they use Badger's exclusively, so what? The brand does not matter as I have always stated on here.
I know guys who could outpaint any of us with an airbrush from Harbor Freight.

It all comes down to personal taste. I've owned Badger, Paasche, Binks, and even an Aztek. What I found (using the same compressor for each of those over the years) is that the Iwatas gave me the least amount of clogging, spatters, etc., than the others. The paint was atomized better and in the end, looked better on my models.

I personally believe that the brushes made a difference in the end-quality of my work. So, in my opinion, Iwata is a better brush. If you put a new Badger 150 next to a new HP-BCS, chances are the results would be practically identical, much the same way you put a Dodge Ram next to a Ford F-series next to a Chevy Silverado. Each might have fine, subtle advantages or disadvantages over the other, but all do the same basic thing and provide the same basic service. This is where personal preference and customer loyalty plays a key role.

I know guys that wouldn't be caught dead driving a Dodge, or a Ford, or a Chevy.

As for guys that can outpaint any of us with an airbrush from Harbor Freight, well, that's pushing it. Painting an airplane overall silver, or a tank overall olive drab, doesn't take much talent. Painting a mile-deep clear finish over a mural on a guitar or a fuel tank or a helmet, does. It's the apples and oranges thing again.

H3nav, there will be more painting stories coming up in future issues.

Jeff

Jeff Herne wrote:

As for guys that can outpaint any of us with an airbrush from Harbor Freight, well, that's pushing it.

Well let's get Mike Levalle, Mickey Harris or Mike Learn with the Harbor Freight airbrush and you with your Iwata and see.

Painting a mile-deep clear finish over a mural on a guitar or a fuel tank or a helmet, does. It's the apples and oranges thing again.

Clear isn't applied with an airbrush, that's where a good spraygun from Sata comes in.

Lets take it easy on one another guys, ok?

If I dig holes with a spade and my neighbor uses a backhoe we are still digging holes. One can't really compare the two farther than that. I'm planting trees and he's digging a foundation.

I started with a pre-Aztec Model Master. Crap. Moved to a Paache VL. Loved it. Added a Badger 150. Loved it the same. Moved to an Iwata Rev CR. Love it more than any of the others as it's a littler more capable on the tiny end than the others. And only the Aztec has ever given me problems, even though I don't really count it as an airbrush anymore.

I won't compare my work to the auto guys or helmet painters. Two different planets, I paint tanks and planes. So I don't need a $300 brush. Just like I don't need a backhoe to plant saplings. I think we should all just agree that we all use the same tools. We just have different needs out of them.

Shooter, you're absolutely right! Great analogy spun from a different viewpoint.

 

E

Don't take me too seriously Shooter, I am just playing around.

I guess this is why I love hanging  here with you guys......All this came to almost fighting just cause  a guy  just asked for a little help in: "Looking to buy first airbrush setup!...Ha,ha.. We went from Compairing Apple's to Oranges, TimeX to Rolex...I'll keep taking Mike V's advice... I've bought six different Badgers on his word's of wisdom over the last 18 month's.......I'm a Model Tank and Model big rig tractor and truck builder..I have three gravity and three bottle suckers....All of which Mike V was/is responsable for my buying them....But I did go off key once and bought a Badger 200-20 which I do think is the easiest a/b Ive found to use over all of them..Thank's Mike V..

 Have fun ......"RC"....

peglegrc wrote:

I guess this is why I love hanging  here with you guys......All this came to almost fighting just cause  a guy  just asked for a little help in: "Looking to buy first airbrush setup!...Ha,ha.. We went from Compairing Apple's to Oranges, TimeX to Rolex...I'll keep taking Mike V's advice... I've bought six different Badgers on his word's of wisdom over the last 18 month's.......I'm a Model Tank and Model big rig tractor and truck builder..I have three gravity and three bottle suckers....All of which Mike V was/is responsable for my buying them....But I did go off key once and bought a Badger 200-20 which I do think is the easiest a/b Ive found to use over all of them..Thank's Mike V..  Have fun ......"RC"....

Thanks for the kind words my friend.

peglegrc wrote:

I guess this is why I love hanging  here with you guys......All this came to almost fighting just cause  a guy  just asked for a little help in: "Looking to buy first airbrush setup!...Ha,ha.. We went from Compairing Apple's to Oranges, TimeX to Rolex...I'll keep taking Mike V's advice... I've bought six different Badgers on his word's of wisdom over the last 18 month's.......I'm a Model Tank and Model big rig tractor and truck builder..I have three gravity and three bottle suckers....All of which Mike V was/is responsable for my buying them....But I did go off key once and bought a Badger 200-20 which I do think is the easiest a/b Ive found to use over all of them..Thank's Mike V..  Have fun ......"RC"....

I love hanging out here with these guys too, you never know what to expect... words of wisdom or total confussion, hehe. 

I have to admit RC, you have me a bit confussed with this one, LOL.

Mike actually recommended 6 different airbrushes, in which you purchased, for modeling tanks & trucks?

Gee, and here I thought I could do my model cars with one or two and 1:1 cars with just three airbrushes.

 

 No, no..Mike didn't actually recommend six different a/b's for me to paint my Tanks and Trucks.. The last time I talked to Mike was just after he had bought his brand new What was it a Harley- Davidson moter cycle wasnt it a Harley Mike? You still have it?He was shairing his pictures with us all.. I read a lot in here and don't always jump in and talk... If and when I do see something about air brush and painting and Mike V's taking, I stop and start reading from the first page of the post and it brings me up to speed about whats being said ....I guess you might call me a Fan.... Since the first day I came here and started asking questions, Mike was always there to answer all my questions..I felt I'd made a new friend in this new hobby I was getting back into.. I'm 66 now the last model I worked on was in 1960 I was 20 and just got married ..My Mother-in-law came over to visit, I was building my model car..She started laughing and asked if I was still playing cars?

 Wasnt I a little to old to be still playing with them?..So I threw it away and never thought about them again till about 18  months ago my next door neighbor here in our Senior Complex was building his on the front porch.. I went out and sat with him and said I could be doing this too..I got back into it..I found e-Bay and Won every car and truck I saw.. I was paying up to and over $100.00 for them..I ended up with over 90 Still in their packages....really super OOP cars and trucks and Big RigTractors....I like to build And drive the Big trucks, Thats was what I was driving when I got into my wreck and lost my right leg...I'd just read anything and every thing I could find in here and mostley what Mike had to say as he talked about different airbrushes to different people, I'd get out my Dixie Art catalog, find it read about what they said too and if it looked good buy it... Then It was like my first tattoo when I was a kid.. I had to have more....Now I've recieved my New Dixie Art Supplies air brush catalog and Ive found one I think could be the ideal a/b for what I want!.. I was going to ask you all what you thought, so I might as well ask now! What you all think and please tell me the pros & con's about it please.....If youve used it? etc.. What's its good & bad features.

Its the Paasche VSR90 #1 double action, gravity feed, with a unique 2 in 1 design...which allows for quick color change by including two different size color cups a 1/8th oz and 3/16th oz...  The cups attach to the top of the a/b and Swivel Left or Right for a Unobstructed view... It also comes with the #1 and #2 needle, tip and aircap components, hanger, wrench, 6 ft hose and head protecting cap... Delivered price is $69.95...Plus free shipping... One person has told me to stick with the Badger He could have been only a badger man I guess...but I would like to hear a bit more about it.. Id like to hear a few different opinions...

You know like I drive a Dodge cummins diesel 4X4 3/4 quad cab  and Love it...and someone else Loves their Chevy 4x4 1/2 ton and someone else drives only Ford4X4's gas engines.....etc..Everyone has a different opinion's about whats best..for them ..I feel that s the same here with a/b's too.....I'd like to find a few not just one man's opinion.... every one is different and have different tastes too..Some people are just checy another wouldnt be driving a ford if his life depended on it..Ive never seen a A/B like this one..And I ve never seen any one elses air brush with this feature.....It is a matter of skill and some people thimk the more expencive it is the better artist They will be thatas not true..Ive seen kids with spray cans under a bridge painting box cars with their tag and some of the stuff is beautiful...I would imagine theres a few really good artist's in our forum has tagged a few fences in their day ha,ha....I don't think a a/b is going to improve my painting skills any more than a rattle can will, but I can afford them and hope some day to find my a/b that has the feel i'm looking for..I pratice alot and like typing when i first got my computer i couldnt type and i sure cant spell thata why i'm pushing geting  check on our forum's..

 I live on top of our local mountian in a small town 200 miles N of Los Angles at 4,000 ft.. 40 miles East of Bakersfield off Hwy 58 and 50 miles North West of Lancaster Calif.. We don't have anything up here except a old K-Mart and a big Prison..its a 100 mile round trip to buy models or hobbys.. Or to see our Dr's... No a/b's to try or even see to look at up close..I buy all my supplys and models from Internet hobbies.com at the top of this page..their fast and send a E-Mail so I know when my supplys will be here and my air brush supplys from dixieart.com they give free shipping for anything over $45.00.. Thanks in advance.. Hope that answers your question about Mike V and the A/B's....

Have a fun..Day....."RC"

 

 

 

 

I guess no bodys used one huh? ha,ha...Guess I'm also good at Ending threads too!...huh?

 "RC"

Sorry to hear about your accident and outcome RC. 

To bad your mother-in-law chased you away from your hobby.

I'm getting back into modeling again too after being gone since around the 60's.

I'm a big fan of old GM muscle cars from the mid 60's to 70 era, but I kind of like the look of the GMC Sierra 3500 4x4 Crew Cab dual rear wheel, crome air horns up top, full length black running boards w/step lights, black fiberglass cap over the bed w/a small chrome rack to carry a canoe. But I guess for now it's me and my old '84 F250.

I don't have much experience with many AB's so I can't really help you out. I had the chance to test spray a few Paasche's, Badger's and Iwata's... I opt'ed for the Iwata's.

Yes, that explained Mikes role he played in your decission making. 

I appoligize for taking so long returning here to reply. My mind isn't what it used to be since my accident and I usually get lost in my journey's and can't find my way. That's why usually Mama drives now. 

RC - I've only heard about the VLS from one person... it sounded like a decent brush from what they said but you might already have something comparable.  It didn't sound like a whopping "step up" from the average brush,  just looking at it and its specs it looks like it would spray a lot like the Badger 175.

Sorry I couldn't give more input!  What are you wanting to paint with it?  The big rigs and such that you spoke of?  If so, it probably would do just fine for that... Hopefully someone else will stumble along and be able to help you better with this!

I thought the two different sized gravity cup's, being able to switch them and also swing them to the left or right side's  so their out if your view would be a big plus.....BUT!....Ive decidied to buy another Badger though....The Badger 200SG Fine Needle... $40.95 Delivered... The PaascheVSR90 is $69.95..I have the Badger 200-20 and think its the easiest one in my collection to use for my modeling needs.......I don't have the coordination to push and pull the double action of my Badger 360 or 100LG and get the same results every time! Its either too much or too little, never the same!....I don't care for the large cup in front either on the 100LG... I like the 360 and the ability to use a bottle or gravity feed...

 The Catalog says the Badger 200's have the same replacement parts as the double action 100/150 series.... The 200SG and 200-20 would compair to the Badger 155 Anthem spray characteristic's, with the 200-20 being used for fine detail....My 200-20 is the med needle and I think I'll get the 200SG with the fine needle for using thinner paint's & ink's & maybe switch the needles etc....With it also being a gravity feed I can use the lower air pressure's too.... I need to find something else in their Catalog to buy too, so I can get the free shipping!  LOL

                                                  Thanks for responding to my post......"RC"....

After a couple of recent brush disasters I ran out and picked up an Iwata Eclipse HP-CS and haven't look back. I love it, but don't really have much experience to use as a comparison. The only other airbrushes that I have owned were a couple of cheap Testors and a Badger 350, I believe it was, years ago. All were external mix, so the finish was always a bit rough. I did like the Badger though, used it for a number of years.

-dave

Gravity Feed Eclipses

Gravity Feed Eclipses

Well !! I guess not!..Yes..I do believe you!.. After using the the Cheap Tester's, then the Badger 350... I'm sure youve never turned back.... Thats a beautiful A/B...But.... as I said above.... I don't care for that big cup up front blocking my view..........Beautiful A/B youve got!

---

200SG

This is the one I decided on!......This picture looks like the Badger 200 G, but the picture says its the 200SG..........I do like that (SBS)  ECL 3500 I think I might have to go back and check it out!! Hmmmmm! No.... Its a double action.... But.....  LOL "I want them all!" ...Have fun modeling........"RC"

Hey RC, maybe a couple of ideas for you might help, one helped my wife since she's not real happy with double-action either.

I told her to just get used to spraying at full trigger. So she pushes and pulls really quick now.

If you like the idea of having side feed and bottom feed in one brush like the Iwata SBS has, you could get a pre-set handle for it. Check the specs out here - Iwata Eclipse HP-SBS.

Not trying to turn you away from Badger, but if the SBS has the features you like, it might be worth looking into further. I know I really like my HP-BCS compared to some other similar AB's I've tested.

Thank you Jim....Yes, that is a super A/B....I'd like to spoil myself even more and buy if for sure..Ive been looking at that Iwata Eclipse HP-SBS too......  But I do think as well as my 200-20 paints my model Tanks and other Military Armor and Trucks, its the easiest one for me out of the bunch I've got.....

So I'm going to be sticking with the Badger 200SG.....(I've already ordered it & it's in the mail coming to me as we speak.... To late to change my mind now).......Thank you for your help and idea your Lady used to over come her dislike for the double action Airbrush's too....Probably down the road in a few month's I'll have it though..(X-Mas is just around the corner, Their advertizing a lot of toys already on TV... Now! And... Ive been a very good boy this year... So far!)....

 I'm a compulseve buyer and collecter of any thing to do with Plastic model Armor & Trucks & Air brush's now too!..."I think I need Help!!"  LOL...  Good thing I'm Single!... Not only can I buy any Modeling tool or Model I want, but I can build at the kitchen table, watch TV and Not have to remove it if I don't want too!....3 Kitty's rule in my house!.."If they don't lay in the middle of it or on it and break it.. It can stay!"......Thanks again..I've bookmarked their site......."RC"

Certainly nothing wrong with the Badgers. Glad the tip might help.

Sounds like Santa will take care of you this year. 

With 5 cats, oop's now 6, wife and 2 kids all living in a mobile home, modeling on the kitchen table has become almost impossible. But I'm thinking about remodeling the old 23 foot camper trailor instead of getting rid of it. Have hobby room will travel hehe.