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Glue question

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  • Member since
    February 2005
Glue question
Posted by JerB on Thursday, October 10, 2019 7:51 PM

Hi guys

just getting back into armour kit building after being out of the hobby for a few years.

i have noticed that my supply of tenax has evaporated. Seeing the closest hobby shop to me is 45 minutes I was curious about MEK?

i see it at the hardware store and remeber a lot of guys use this stuff back in the day

 

does it do a good job or should I just make the trip to pick up hobby grade cement

 

thanks for any input

jeremy

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Thursday, October 10, 2019 9:00 PM

I use weldon #3 for acrylic which can be found.at hardware stores.  Very thin and exhibits the capillary action really well.  Also use Tamiya thin which is cooler than weldon.  Not sure about MEK.

 

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    July 2013
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by modelmaker66 on Thursday, October 10, 2019 11:33 PM

JerB

Hi guys

just getting back into armour kit building after being out of the hobby for a few years.

i have noticed that my supply of tenax has evaporated. Seeing the closest hobby shop to me is 45 minutes I was curious about MEK?

i see it at the hardware store and remeber a lot of guys use this stuff back in the day

 

does it do a good job or should I just make the trip to pick up hobby grade cement

 

thanks for any input

jeremy

 

MEK will work great, just smelly.

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Longmont, Colorado
Posted by Cadet Chuck on Friday, October 11, 2019 3:46 AM

re MEK:  Be sure to wear a vapor respirator when you're using it.  That stuff is dangerous to your health.

Gimme a pigfoot, and a bottle of beer...

  • Member since
    March 2014
Posted by Graham Green on Friday, October 11, 2019 4:54 AM

Cadet Chuck

re MEK:  Be sure to wear a vapor respirator when you're using it.  That stuff is dangerous to your health.

 

 

Can YOU present A-N-Y evidence that it has damaged somebody/anybody AT ALL?

 

Ok, there is a PDF showing that it MAY, repeat MAY --- "Repeated exposure may cause skin dryness or cracking" ------.

There is nothing about it causing Cancer or any other serious illness, so why do foolish persons like you, continue to spread stupid and malicious misleading gossip about this product ?

It has NO greater impact on the body than petrol, so do you wish to mis-align petrol with the same stupid argument.

 

http://www.holmberg.se/upload/product/files/sds-methyl-ethyl-ketone-mek-eng-2014-08-19---733.pdf

 

I really expect you to at least read and acquaint yourself with FACTS, before offering such stupid and misleading statements on the web, remember that other vulnerable persons may read what you have said and consider it the absolute truth.

Now before you go firing of half cocked, please check out what YOUR FAVORITE liquid glue DOES contain, check out what the specific PDF say's about that glue before answering.

  • Member since
    March 2014
Posted by Graham Green on Friday, October 11, 2019 5:02 AM

JerB

Hi guys

just getting back into armour kit building after being out of the hobby for a few years.

i have noticed that my supply of tenax has evaporated. Seeing the closest hobby shop to me is 45 minutes I was curious about MEK?

i see it at the hardware store and remeber a lot of guys use this stuff back in the day

 

does it do a good job or should I just make the trip to pick up hobby grade cement

 

thanks for any input

jeremy

 

 

Sounds like you have used it before, it works just as well as any other liquid glue used for polystyrene and at a fraction of the cost of the exorbitant prices model shops charge for other branded bottles of liquid glue. Virtually the same stuff anyway, so go for it, it works a treat.

 

A question for you please, if you have used this stuff years ago, do you have a third ear, or a third eye sprouting from your forehead, or, any foul vile cancerous growths showing anywhere on your body attributed to this MEK product ?

Inquiring minds need to know ----------- Wink

  • Member since
    May 2018
  • From: Louisville KY
Posted by DMX512 on Friday, October 11, 2019 6:57 AM

Graham Green

Section 6.1 of the MSDS you posted clearly states to wear a respirator.

Nice rant though.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Friday, October 11, 2019 7:37 AM

Mr Green:

This is supposed to be a community.

If you disagree with someone's stated opinion, then by all means call them on it and state your own case in a civil manner. There is no need to fire back an out-of-left-field tirade as though it had been some sort of personal attack against you. Using the term 'stupid' in your rant no less than three times is just plain rude; suggesting that any statement will contribute to corrupting the poor gullible readership of the world-wide web is just bizarre.

All the materials handling data sheets clearly state dizziness and drowsiness as possible effects of MEK inhalation. More detailed studies--admittedly with animals, rather than us too-smart-to-know-better model-building types--suggest the possibilities of liver and kidney damage in high concentrations. Those facts alone might inspire any lucid individual to recommend the use of a respirator.

But you, of course, are free to breathe the stuff deep, if you feel that's a better option.

Greg

George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."
 
Moderator
  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: my keyboard dreaming of being at the workbench
Posted by Aaron Skinner on Friday, October 11, 2019 9:37 AM

Graham,

Beyond the fact that your post is pretty disrespectful to the person you are responding to, which we frown on on the FSM Forum, you are picking pretty lightly over the hazards associated with MEK. To quote the very SDS you link to: 

SECTION 11: Toxicological information

11.1. Information on toxicological effects

Toxicological Information: Other toxicological data

Acute Toxicity (Oral LD50): mg/kg (oral rat) > 2000 - ≤ 5000

Acute Toxicity (Inhalation LC50): > 5000 ppm

Acute Toxicity (Dermal LD50): Rabbit mg/kg > 5000

Potential acute effects

Inhalation

In high concentrations, vapours are narcotic and may cause headache, fatigue, dizziness and nausea. Icke klassificerad som aspirationstoxisk (Not classified as asp. tox.)

Skin contact

Prolonged or frequent contact may cause redness, itching, eczema and skin cracking. Defats the skin.

Eye contact

Causes serious eye irritation.

Ingestion Ingestion of large amounts may cause unconsciousness. However, ingestion may cause nausea, headache, dizziness and intoxication. Ingestion may cause irritation of the gastrointestinal tract, vomiting and diarrhoea. May cause irritation to the mouth and throat.

 

Yes, it's true that there are no known carcinogenic effects, but that is not what the poster said. It it clearly not something you want to be inhaling in large amounts. At the very least, it should be used in a well-ventilated area. If you are around it for extended periods or in large quantities, a respirator is a good idea. 

Just to acquaint everyone with the facts.

Aaron Skinner

Editor

FineScale Modeler

  • Member since
    July 2014
Posted by modelcrazy on Friday, October 11, 2019 9:51 AM

I have new lungs, I wear a resporator or mask with any chemical I use in the hobby regardless of what the MSDS says. I'm protecting my new organs and would sugest the everyone protect what they have and not take them for granted.

Just sayin

Steve

Building a kit from your stash is like cutting a head off a Hydra, two more take it's place.

 

 

http://www.spamodeler.com/forum/

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, October 11, 2019 10:47 AM

modelcrazy

I have new lungs, I wear a resporator or mask with any chemical I use in the hobby regardless of what the MSDS says. I'm protecting my new organs and would sugest the everyone protect what they have and not take them for granted.

And I'll bet those cost a little bit more than the $ 10 or so savings on model glue. Not to mention the disruption it all caused in your life. I am so glad you are doing well.

As for this guy Green, IMO he's best ignored. Yes, we all know that the Aussies have longer ones and their balls drag on the ground, point made. And we have a lot of members here from that continent who have better manners. It's just the way this guy is, so don't take anything he says seriously.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Longmont, Colorado
Posted by Cadet Chuck on Friday, October 11, 2019 12:13 PM

Thanks for your support, gentlemen.  I only meant to make a helpful comment.

 

"I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition!" - Monty Python

Gimme a pigfoot, and a bottle of beer...

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Wyoming Michigan
Posted by ejhammer on Friday, October 11, 2019 1:03 PM

Did some research on various "adhesives" a year or so ago. Most of what we are discussing here are not really adhesives, rather they are solvents that will melt styrenes.

I have sorted them by brand, contents and cost if purchased by the quart, or in enough 1 or 2 ounce bottles to make a quart as most hobby products are only available in those small sizes. Some hobby products as you can see have additives added to control the kick or speed. Some are just repackaged Methylene Chloride.

Tamiya liquid cement, orange bottle, acetone,  butyl - acetate, $96.00

Tamiya extra thin cement, acetone, butyl - acetate, $104.28

Tamiya extra thin cement - quick setting, acetone, butyl - acetate, $91.01

In the Tamiya adhesives, the mix of butyl acetate and acetone varies by adhesive type, controlling the quickness or "hotness".

Tenax 7-R, Methylene Chloride - 98 - 100%, $118.49  (Discontinued?)

Flex-file Plast-i-weld, Methylene Chloride - 98 - 100%, $98.24

Micro Mark Same Stuff, Methylene Chloride - 98 - 100%, $95.20

Plastruct Plastic Weld, (orange label), Methylene Chloride - 85%, MEK 15%,$76.32

Plastruct Bondene, (white label), Methylene Chloride - 55%, MEK 45%, $79.68

Ambroid Pro-weld, Methylene Chloride - 98-100%, (Discontinued?)

Testors liquid plastic cement #3502, Ethel acetate - 35 - 40%, MEK 35 - 40%, Propylene glycol methyl ether acetate - 25 - 30%, allyl isothiocyanate - .5%,  $96.32

The following are products I have purchased from a local custom plastics fabrication shop. These are products they use. I can buy them by the pint or quart from them.

The first two make up the major ingredients in most styrene adhesives. 

Methyl Ethyl Keytone, commonly referred to as MEK, also called 2-butanone, ethyl methyl keytone. $8.99 qt. can get at most bulding supply centers and paint stores.

Dichloromethane, also called Methylene Chloride. $33.98 qt. This is a very fast setting product with a high rate of capillary action.

Scigrip Weld-on #3,(very fast setting)  Methylene Chloride - 80%, Trichlorethylene - 15%, Methyl methacrylate monomer - 5%, $25.47 qt

Scigrip Weld-on #4,(fast setting)  Methylene Chloride - 60%, Trichlorethylene - 40%, Methyl methacrylate monomer - 1%, $25.47 qt

The Scigrip stuff I also use in my shop to fabricate sneeze guards for salad bars and such out of Plexiglass and polycarbonate sheet.

I have also downloaded the safety data sheets for all these products.

Hope you find this information useful.

EJ

 

Completed - 1/525 Round Two Lindberg repop of T2A tanker done as USS MATTAPONI, USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa Dec 1942, USS Yorktown 1/700 Trumpeter 1943. In The Yards - USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa 1945, USS ESSEX 1/700 Dragon 1944, USS ESSEX 1/700 Trumpeter 1945, USS ESSEX 1/540 Revell (vintage) 1962, USS ESSEX 1/350 Trumpeter 1942, USS ESSEX LHD-2 as commissioned, converted from USS Wasp kit Gallery Models. Plus 35 other plastic and wood ship kits.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Friday, October 11, 2019 1:34 PM

Cadet Chuck
"I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition!" - Monty Python

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to Aaron Skinner...."

Greg

George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."
 
  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Wyoming Michigan
Posted by ejhammer on Friday, October 11, 2019 2:00 PM
I posted this info a while back, but not sure if it was even on Finescale. The prices may have changed some since I compiled the data. I did it just for my own knowledge after a discussion that took place at our model club. I found it rather enlightening. EJ

Completed - 1/525 Round Two Lindberg repop of T2A tanker done as USS MATTAPONI, USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa Dec 1942, USS Yorktown 1/700 Trumpeter 1943. In The Yards - USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa 1945, USS ESSEX 1/700 Dragon 1944, USS ESSEX 1/700 Trumpeter 1945, USS ESSEX 1/540 Revell (vintage) 1962, USS ESSEX 1/350 Trumpeter 1942, USS ESSEX LHD-2 as commissioned, converted from USS Wasp kit Gallery Models. Plus 35 other plastic and wood ship kits.

  • Member since
    July 2013
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by modelmaker66 on Friday, October 11, 2019 2:36 PM

Cadet Chuck

Thanks for your support, gentlemen.  I only meant to make a helpful comment.

 

"I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition!" - Monty Python

 

Welcome to MY world here!

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Friday, October 11, 2019 5:50 PM

Now somebody has to mentally prepare himself for a comfy chair... OH NO!

Graham, you're a talented modeller, you build really pretty things, why do you have to be so annoying?

As for the glues - pure MEK or acetone for that matter, doesn't really make a good styrene glue. It does't melt the plastic too well and evaporates too fast to apply it to the parts and then join them together - you have to join the parts first, and then wick the solvent between them, not my favourite way.

It all changes when you add some butyl acetate - now this stuff changes things, now the solvent glue makes the styrene softer and the mix gets persisten enough to apply it even to larger surfaces and then comfortably join the parts, with time enough for corrections.

Now I didn't have a chance to test the methyl chloride.

Thanks for reading and have a nice day

PaweĊ‚

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    March 2014
Posted by Graham Green on Friday, October 11, 2019 5:55 PM

I really think that a lot of ‘sanctimonious’ persons on here should do their own homework on what liquid glue they use, you’ll find a Material Safety Data Sheet on all the chemicals that ‘ejhammer’ has kindly explained what is in the make up of popular liquid glue’s.

Thank you to ‘ejhammer’ for that list, it has been saved for future reference, it’s nice to see that somebody has the ‘fortitude’ to post a  sensible answer.

It appears that all these chemicals have one thing in common, that is the vapour can cause irritation, therefore, why aren’t all these other glues, put into the same basket as what MEK has been.

So why isn’t everybody on here, blasting away about the need to wear a "respirator", when using any liquid glue ?

A simple face mask is about as usefull as 'a pocket in a pair of underpants', the face mask only filters out course dust particles, NOT a vapour.






  • Member since
    March 2013
Posted by patrick206 on Friday, October 11, 2019 7:23 PM

Graham Green

I really think that a lot of ‘sanctimonious’ persons on here should do their own homework on what liquid glue they use, you’ll find a Material Safety Data Sheet on all the chemicals that ‘ejhammer’ has kindly explained what is in the make up of popular liquid glue’s.

Thank you to ‘ejhammer’ for that list, it has been saved for future reference, it’s nice to see that somebody has the ‘fortitude’ to post a  sensible answer.

It appears that all these chemicals have one thing in common, that is the vapour can cause irritation, therefore, why aren’t all these other glues, put into the same basket as what MEK has been.

So why isn’t everybody on here, blasting away about the need to wear a "respirator", when using any liquid glue ?

A simple face mask is about as usefull as 'a pocket in a pair of underpants', the face mask only filters out course dust particles, NOT a vapour.






 

Mr. Green

You have completely skipped over the reason your post raised objection, namely, your choice of harsh and insulting words in response to a legitimate question a member posted. The forums are intended for friendly and helpful conversations, resulting in a positive transfer of useful information.

As a member, I'll appreciate your conducting yourself in a much more respectful and considerate manner, if you continue to participate in the forums. If you're unable to do that, then I agree with GMorrison's sentiment, you are best ignored.

Patrick206

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2015
  • From: Close to Chicago
Posted by JohnnyK on Sunday, October 13, 2019 3:13 PM

I am an old fart and I continue to use Testors' Liquid Cement in the red bottle. It smells, but so do I at certain times Sad

Sometimes I use Tamyia extra thin liquid cement.

Your comments and questions are always welcome.

  • Member since
    June 2023
Posted by Ruth on Thursday, January 18, 2024 2:07 PM

Well said!

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • From: Roanoke Virginia
Posted by Strongeagle on Friday, January 19, 2024 9:43 AM

JerB
i have noticed that my supply of tenax has evaporated. Seeing the closest hobby shop to me is 45 minutes I was curious about MEK?

Ahoy JerB,

I was not pleased when Tenax 7R went away.  But I found two products that claim to be Tenax 7R reborn.

Micro-Mark has a Tenax 7R replacement called "Same Stuff".  You can Google "Micro-Mark Same Stuff" and or you can go to Amazon and enter "same stuff plastic weld" in their search and you will find it.

Micro-Mark says its the same formula as Tenax.  I've used it and it works fine.

There's also a product called Styrene Tack-It II that says it is Tenax 7R under a new name.  You can find it here:

https://www.hobbyworks.com/cproduct/17500%2Fstyrene-tack-it-ii-adhesive-%28formerly-tenax-7r%29-plastic-welder

I have this product also and it works fine too.

I've never used MEK as a plastic cement and think that if you're looking for a dedicated plastic cement to replace Tenax, then one of the to above would be a good choice.

Good Luck

 

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • From: Roanoke Virginia
Posted by Strongeagle on Friday, January 19, 2024 10:02 AM

Sorry guys.  I didn't realize this was such an old post when I responded to it.  Info is still good if anyone is looking for a Tenax replacement.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Friday, January 19, 2024 10:32 AM

Tamiya Extra Thin,green cap works for me.

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Friday, January 19, 2024 1:45 PM

Strongeagle

 

 
JerB
i have noticed that my supply of tenax has evaporated. Seeing the closest hobby shop to me is 45 minutes I was curious about MEK?

 

Ahoy JerB,

I was not pleased when Tenax 7R went away.  But I found two products that claim to be Tenax 7R reborn.

Micro-Mark has a Tenax 7R replacement called "Same Stuff".  You can Google "Micro-Mark Same Stuff" and or you can go to Amazon and enter "same stuff plastic weld" in their search and you will find it.

Micro-Mark says its the same formula as Tenax.  I've used it and it works fine.

There's also a product called Styrene Tack-It II that says it is Tenax 7R under a new name.  You can find it here:

https://www.hobbyworks.com/cproduct/17500%2Fstyrene-tack-it-ii-adhesive-%28formerly-tenax-7r%29-plastic-welder

I have this product also and it works fine too.

I've never used MEK as a plastic cement and think that if you're looking for a dedicated plastic cement to replace Tenax, then one of the to above would be a good choice.

Good Luck

 

 

Tamiya Extra Thin for me at the moment too, until I run out.  Probably going to try MEK once that happens, since I always have plenty of that.  I saw the drama in the old discussion.  MEK is really no more dangerous than any other chemical that is going to melt plastic.  Just use the same practices you use to protect yourself from the other chemicals you use in modeling and you'll be fine.  Just a hint if you ever use it for cleaning airbrush parts like I do.  The best way to pull the parts out of the MEK after they're cleaned is just to put on latex gloves and use your hands.  Don't use vinyl gloves though...those will melt...latex won't.

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • From: Land of Lakes
Posted by cbaltrin on Friday, January 19, 2024 3:07 PM

You guys know this post is like 5 years old right? Wink

On the Bench: Too Much

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Friday, January 19, 2024 3:28 PM

Yeah,good info is always good info.Besides,it's good to see some traffic here.

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • From: Land of Lakes
Posted by cbaltrin on Friday, January 19, 2024 3:47 PM

Tojo72

Yeah,good info is always good info.Besides,it's good to see some traffic here.

True, true...

On the Bench: Too Much

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Friday, January 19, 2024 7:28 PM

Of Course.

         But where are you gonna get really good reminders about stuff. This field changes so fast you need to see if the Matrix is broken or sumpin!

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