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II./JG 52 reference needed

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  • Member since
    October 2013
  • From: Luxembourg
II./JG 52 reference needed
Posted by LionOfLux on Monday, November 18, 2013 11:19 AM
Hello. I recently found out that this particular Gruppe stayed at my country (Luxembourg) in late May early June 1940. Since I recently started building models again, and since I'm apparently a big 109 fan, I'm looking for reference of said planes. Are there any camo/pattern/marking references of individual planes available. I think none exist for the time of their stay in Luxembourg, but I imagine the planes must have looked the same at least several weeks/months before and after. So, basically, the first half of 1940 I'd say...
Any hints are welcome, even if it's just names of pilots I could use to refine my search...
Thanks
  • Member since
    March 2010
  • From: MN
Posted by Nathan T on Monday, November 18, 2013 11:48 AM

Pretty easy to find info on 2/ JG52 pilots and 109e's while in Calais in August, but tough to tell whether other pics were taken while in Lux.

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, November 18, 2013 11:56 AM

The Osprey Aviation Elite Units book on JG 52 has one colour plate. I managed to find this photo of it, it has an unusual nose badge I haven't seen before. I believe that the badge for 6 Staffel. The scheme is standard light blue with high demarcation line for the top camo colours. Most 109's for this period were painted the same, so its really the markings you need to find, which apart from unit insignia are pretty standard.

asisbiz.com/.../Bf-109E-JG52.6-(Y1+)-Lederer.html

Not sure what scale you are after doing, but there a 72nd set that include another aircraft of 6 staffel.

Its no 3.

www.hannants.co.uk/.../PSL72021

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    October 2013
  • From: Luxembourg
Posted by LionOfLux on Tuesday, November 19, 2013 5:37 PM

Thanks for the tips so far. I bought Osprey's JG 52 book and did some reading. Today, I found out Eduard's 1:48 109E-1 Profipack actually has decals for a 6./JG 52 plane of 1940. It has yellow cowling and rudder, as well as mottled sides, based in Husum (Sept. 1940). Since I was interested in building a plane from May/June, I wonder if I just left out the yellow and the mottling (with RLM 65 going up high on the sides) it could realistically be from the Phoney War/early Invasion period, and thus as it would have been while stationed for 2 weeks over here in Luxembourg. The yellow tactical markings only having appeared in Aug. 1940. Just not sure about the mottling on the sides yet...

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Tuesday, November 19, 2013 6:55 PM

Another possible candidate:

In the book I have, the aircraft is captioned as an E-1 of 5./JG52 and it crash-landed in Northern France in May 1940, Pilot Uffz. Albrecht Griener.

This photo is captioned as being Red 13, pilot being Ali Griener (note different first name - nickname perhaps?).

... and a text link offering some early  history on the unit;

http://sturmvogel.orbat.com/early_jg52.html

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Tuesday, November 19, 2013 11:01 PM

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Wednesday, November 20, 2013 12:13 AM

Lion, you are correct, the mottling on the sides was added after the battle of France. The image Jack posted is the standard scheme for the period you are after.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    October 2013
  • From: Luxembourg
Posted by LionOfLux on Wednesday, November 20, 2013 2:12 AM

Thanks for the links. Yes, Ali can be short for Albrecht. One plane shows Red 13, while the other shows Black 13. Red and Black being interchangeable for 2nd Staffel in a Gruppe, so that's no surprise. What's irritating me, 5./JG52 that would be Gruppe II, shouldn't the plane having a horizontal bar behind the + ?

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Wednesday, November 20, 2013 4:13 AM

Definitely should have the horizontal bar marking.  It seems though not to be an isolated example -  I can't find any II./JG52 examples wearing that marking during 1940.

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205076070

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    October 2013
  • From: Luxembourg
Posted by LionOfLux on Friday, November 29, 2013 2:37 AM
Seems the bar is indeed absent on all aircraft. I ordered a dcal sheet with markings for Y3 6./52 with a black eagle head. But the staffel-sign can be found either as black outline, black, and black/white/blue... :( Need to do more research as to what was used when. Worst case I'm gonna use the decal to retrace a mask and paint it on as whatever variant turns out to be correct...
  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Friday, November 29, 2013 3:33 PM

Posted the question on another forum where I know an author/researcher drops in now and then.  Nothing from him, but another member also confirmed that during this time frame II Gruppe did not appear to carry the bar marking, again the reason being unknown.

It's possible they relied on the squadron emblems instead.

regards,

Jack

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