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Real Warbirds : Fact or Fiction ?

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  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Real Warbirds : Fact or Fiction ?
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Friday, March 23, 2018 10:15 AM

Attention all model plane builders .

 Be careful with your panel lines ! Just saw the Collings Foundation's  P-51 Mustang T.D. . Whatta plane .Guess what ? the panel lines , Such as there were , are tiny . Can you say no thicker where present that the back of a thin notepad cardboard .

 Panel lines on the B-24 Not present in large amounts , But my gosh all those rivets . Yes rivets . Not flush but sticking up all over the place. Guess what , walk ten feet from any of the planes ( A B-17 , B-24 and P51 - T.D. .And you can't see squat !

 Now the gear doors and bomb bay doors etc , yes , very prominent panel lines . Also no smooth surface except for the P-51 . Metal that looks like it was put on in High School shop class . Wrinkles everywhere . Warts and Dents too . Smooth ? No Way . Dirty in places you would expect , you bet ! Air worn paint at leading edges and prop edges ?You Bet .

 Now , Did you know ? there were no handholds inside the Bombers ? Yep , grab wrong and you have a handful of flight control cables . Here's the kicker . Paint was about four or five different shades of Zinc Chromate where it wasn't worn off . The tops of both the Ball turrets and the back of the nose turret( B-24 ) were aluminum in color . The Guns and my goodness they were the real thing without the ability to shoot . Black with aluminum handles and Bullets everywhere .

 Gear was smooth Aluminum with Hydraulic stains at all joints . The gear wells were medium light grey . Now even the seams at the cowl edges were fairly tight except where they contacted each other at the joints .The air intakes in the wings were rough and bent a lot .There were wrinkles in the Join between the wings and fuselage .

 Much of the Plexi was fatigue and solar starred . It was , I was told , All original except a few pieces needed for safety . i.e. Cockpit windshields .

 Now , that said  , Please let me see less Panel lining in models at shows . In that size you wouldn't see them . Of course the molder is going to do it to make the surface look interesting . Get your model . Go to a show and then build .You would be surprised how wrinkled and worn some of even the most modern look !

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, March 23, 2018 1:05 PM

The P-51 wing is puttied, sanded and painted.

 

Their B-24 isn't original. Did you notice that the interior data plates are in Hindi?

It was ex-RAF in India, destroyed by the British at Independence, rebuilt by the IAF and served into the sixties.

 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, March 23, 2018 5:50 PM

Aside from dimensions, outline shapes, etc., modern warbirds are not a good reference source for actual serving line birds. The owner/operators spent a fortune on them and maintain them far more pristine than a serving line bird. They are seldom restored to exact color specs as built, although that is improving more nowadays compared to the early days of Warbirds on the air show circuits.

Not to mention the service life. A WWII combat aircraft often had a very short lifespan due to attrition or obsolescence. Only rear area aircraft, trainers, and transports would be the types likely to see an extended service time span. 

And as far as those panel lines go, I would love to see the kit companies replicate the overlapping skin panels with raised rivets common on so many aircraft types. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    March, 2012
  • From: Corpus Christi, Tx
Posted by mustang1989 on Friday, March 23, 2018 6:21 PM

stikpusher
And as far as those panel lines go, I would love to see the kit companies replicate the overlapping skin panels with raised rivets common on so many aircraft types. Add

Amen to that brother!!

 

Being really stupid IS "the new smart"!!

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, March 23, 2018 6:56 PM

I miss my Dad, but I sure don't miss that big gut.

  • Member since
    March, 2012
  • From: Corpus Christi, Tx
Posted by mustang1989 on Friday, March 23, 2018 7:05 PM

 

LOL! That's a good picture of you two. I hear you on loosing the gut. I'm not too far out but I've been loosing weight now for a couple of months and it sure feels great.

 

Being really stupid IS "the new smart"!!

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, March 23, 2018 9:38 PM

Tanker - Builder

Attention all model plane builders .

 Be careful with your panel lines !   

 

  Now , that said  , Please let me see less Panel lining in models at shows . In that size you wouldn't see them . Of course the molder is going to do it to make the surface look interesting . Get your model . Go to a show and then build .You would be surprised how wrinkled and worn some of even the most modern look !

 

 

 

 

I see some panel lines here... more than 10 feet away...

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Friday, March 23, 2018 10:27 PM

And a mad man jumping out of a perfectly good airplane ;)

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, March 24, 2018 12:07 AM

After some of the rides they give you, you WANT OUT....

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Saturday, March 24, 2018 9:48 AM

Oh Yeah ;

 That is sure the truth . Now on those panel lines . It would be in 1/72 , 1/48 a mess of colors in a small area . I don't think in 1/72 you would even have room for all those ! I am not against lines .I just don't like seeing beautifully done models looking like my Truckers Road Map Book !

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Saturday, March 24, 2018 9:56 AM

Oboy :

 That is certainly the plane I saw . You are right about her History too . I was fascinated in the fact she survived all that . She sure sounded good on her take -Off yesterday . Day before she had a Propeller overun warning come on at full throttle .

 Flight cancelled till problem fixed . It was and she flew beautifully . I do know that Collings completely dissassembles and rebuilds these planes where necessary . I don't have a problem with that . We in the old " Confederate Air Force  "( Commorative Air Force , Now ) Always had problems finding parts that were useable .

 I spent a lot of time at Davis - Monthan in the boneyard . So it took us twice as long to get flight certified . That's okay though . The fact that someone is trying  to historically restore and operate , Aircraft , Cars and Armor , is enough . 

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Saturday, March 24, 2018 9:58 AM

Hey !

 When I do my C-130 , do I have to have the guy hanging on for dear life that far back from the door ?

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Saturday, March 24, 2018 9:59 AM

Question ;

 Is that a wheel cover system I see on a D.C.-3 or C-47 ?

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, March 24, 2018 5:20 PM

Tanker - Builder

Question ;

 Is that a wheel cover system I see on a D.C.-3 or C-47 ?

 

That sure does look like some sort of retractable ”spat” for the landing gear on that Goonie Bird. Good catch. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, March 24, 2018 5:21 PM

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, March 24, 2018 5:31 PM

First flight of the day. I got to be the R.O. or at least sit in his seat for take off.

  • Member since
    August, 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Monday, March 26, 2018 10:56 AM

TB, tend to agree with you on what is built and shown....In my 4 years in the AF, aircraft and equipment was well taken care of, fresh paint jobs when needed or re-deployed.  They were kept clean, not only because of crewchief pride, but to detect leaks, etc early on, and be easier to work on.  Besides, why pack a hundred pounds of dirt, grease, etc., at 50 knots slower speed and more fuel consumption than the rest of the flight?

Yes during up-tempo ops, things might slide a little, but not for long.

Vey few clean every day use builds end up on the tables at shows, in either aircraft or armor.  Judging has gone to the dirtier it is the better.  Aircraft look like they have spent the last 25 years at D/M, and that's the cleanest of them.

Builders for shows know what the judges want and build and weather to that standard regardless of what real world conditions are.  If you build clean, and want the ribbon, probalbly not going to happen.

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Monday, March 26, 2018 11:24 AM

Tanker - Builder

Attention all model plane builders .

 Now , Did you know ? there were no handholds inside the Bombers ? Yep , grab wrong and you have a handful of flight control cables . Here's the kicker . Paint was about four or five different shades of Zinc Chromate where it wasn't worn off . The tops of both the Ball turrets and the back of the nose turret( B-24 ) were aluminum in color . The Guns and my goodness they were the real thing without the ability to shoot . Black with aluminum handles and Bullets everywhere .

I started building a WW2 bomber just this past weekend. I grabbed a small bottle of zinc chromate green, and it looks almost flat yellow. Closer to mustard or the old Afrika Korps paint we used to use on all tanks.

Anyway, I've always thought it was closer to a green. I used it but am not quite happy with it. It was a Testors small bottle, the ones that originally were a dime but now are a buck and change.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, March 26, 2018 11:53 AM

Rob, that square bottle of Testors Zinc Chromate is actually the yellow shade. Which is different from Green Zinc Chromate or Interior Green. That yellow stuff is used in areas like engine and gun bays, wheel wells, and other non cockpit internal areas. You can turn it into interior green by adding a little flat black.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Tuesday, March 27, 2018 9:45 AM

Thanks, I'll just use a darker shade of green or leave it well enough alone. It's a 1/72 scale Monogram B-25 kit I am building for the bomber group build. Not too concerned about accuracy, just trying to build some non-standard stuff (for me), to get passed an armor modeling rut.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, March 27, 2018 11:24 AM

The Yellow Zinc Chromate is perfectly fine on most areas of the B-52 like the flaps, wheel wells and bomb bay. The cockpit interior should be Dark Gull Gray. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, March 27, 2018 11:27 AM

B-25. Boy, Rob, that's like getting into armor with the Monogram M48.

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Tuesday, March 27, 2018 11:48 AM

GMorrison

B-25. Boy, Rob, that's like getting into armor with the Monogram M48.

 

It was a thrift shop purchase, very cheap and a bomber group build was going on. Not going to put a lot of effort into it. Already primed it with Testors dark aircraft gray and got a can of OD paint to do the upper surfaces. Heck the Monogram ancient M4A1 I picked up, I keep trying to do extra stuff to it. 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, March 27, 2018 3:43 PM

Oops... I went dyslexic there... B-25 interior dull dark green in the crew areas and bomb bay...

as far as the B-25 to M48 comparison... the B-25 kits are a good 20 years more modern than their M48.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, March 27, 2018 5:03 PM

True, 1978 is 20 years younger than 1958. And I'm 20 years younger than Robert Redford. 

 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, March 27, 2018 8:33 PM

Some more panel lines on a real aircraft. This particular airframe was actually fairly new and survived its first combat sortie. Unlike the other five aircraft in the flight. Interesting how on the light gray lowers the panel lines are fairly well visible, while on the blue gray uppers they are not.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    March, 2005
  • From: Lancaster, South Carolina
Posted by Devil Dawg on Thursday, April 05, 2018 2:20 PM

stikpusher

 

 
Tanker - Builder

Attention all model plane builders .

 Be careful with your panel lines !   

 

  Now , that said  , Please let me see less Panel lining in models at shows . In that size you wouldn't see them . Of course the molder is going to do it to make the surface look interesting . Get your model . Go to a show and then build .You would be surprised how wrinkled and worn some of even the most modern look !

 

 

 

 

 

 

I see some panel lines here... more than 10 feet away...

 

WOW, Stik!! That's a nice diorama! What scale is it? Propeller

Devil Dawg

On The Bench: 1/48th Hasegawa F/A-18F Super Hornet;  1/48th Eduard/Hasegawa Ultimate Sabre with "MiG Mad Marine" markings; Revell Of Germany 1/144 Boeing E-4B Airborne Command Post

Build one at a time? Hah! That'll be the day!!

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, April 05, 2018 4:59 PM

Devil Dawg

 

 
stikpusher

 

 
Tanker - Builder

Attention all model plane builders .

 Be careful with your panel lines !   

 

  Now , that said  , Please let me see less Panel lining in models at shows . In that size you wouldn't see them . Of course the molder is going to do it to make the surface look interesting . Get your model . Go to a show and then build .You would be surprised how wrinkled and worn some of even the most modern look !

 

 

 

 

 

 

I see some panel lines here... more than 10 feet away...

 

 

 

WOW, Stik!! That's a nice diorama! What scale is it? Propeller

 

Box Scale... this kit...

 

 

Wink

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, April 05, 2018 5:02 PM

But it says 1/144 right on the box....

Goes with the BUFF that other guy is building.

  • Member since
    February, 2012
  • From: Olmsted Township, Ohio
Posted by lawdog114 on Thursday, April 05, 2018 9:26 PM

Tanker - Builder
Much of the Plexi was fatigue and solar starred . It was , I was told , All original except a few pieces needed for safety . i.e. Cockpit windshields .

 

...........and exactly why I don't polish my canopies and such.  It doesn't look right.  Interesting tread.

 "Can you fly this plane and land it?...Surely you can't be serious....I am serious, and don't call me Shirley"

 

 

 

 

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