Here lies the beauty of this hobby

Tojo72

Be sure not to let critics rob you of your joy.There are many “rivet counters” who try to impose their will on people.The wrong shade paint,the wrong markings,wrong mud,wrong version,it goes on and on.There is nothing wrong with accuracy or getting a technique just right,but sounds like you don’t obsess.Have fun and over time you may want to refine things,but maybe you won’t,do just build for yourself and enjoy.I would encourage you to post pictures of your builds and listen to the criticism,you will get compliments and most will offer suggestions.Don’t worry,use what you want and let the rest go,but look to improve and have fun.

 

Some give me a really NICE model with both interior and extrier detail. For build number 11—-

That's right!  Do it your way!

Why, yes..... modeling IS FUN !!!!!

Just remember, when the "Rivit counter's " attack..... tell them, There's a PROTO-TYPE for everything !!!!

That include's any kit you just built.

littletimmy

Why, yes..... modeling IS FUN !!!!!

Just remember, when the "Rivit counter's " attack..... tell them, There's a PROTO-TYPE for everything !!!!

That include's any kit you just built.

 

We will all be here tomorrow.  I stand by my first three models as a learning process

Absolutely build and paint to your delight. However, if you post pics and don't want to hear negative critique, then don't post. Most will be postive and constructive, but their might be a river-counter in the group. I'm my own worst critique and really just need to not over-obsess about accuracy. My favorite build has errors in paint, but I still enjoy it and hope to outdo it someday.

Models32466;

 Now you know why I build Tankers and other Civilian ships .If I go to a show with say, my build of the Constellation(A/C Carrier ) there's always someone telling me it's not accurate !

 I got tired of "rivet counters" a long time ago . I built my U.S.S.England in 1/350 because I wanted to .Oops ,The Sea Blue was too dark . My Bad ! But the enjoyment in building her was a satisfaction level five times bigger than the model .I build for me.

 I know there is room for historical accuracy , as well as any other level in between . Building for a client yes ! Building for me ? maybe , but not always. I do have historically accurate models all over the place. I also have many more that aren't .the latter being the most enjoyable builds. Go for it and Enjoy ! This is a Hobby ,Not a Job !

Tanker-Builder

Eric;

 Thank You sir ! I have been trying to get that across to modeling friends for years .We are our own worst critics ! I have gotten to the point , as hard as it was that , well the paint is close , but, it's out of the box .

 Could it be better Maybe ? Who cares ? it's My Model ! T.B.

Hi,

To be honest, its probably also worthwhile reminding yourself from time to time, that not all rivet counters are right, as well.

From real world experience, having worked as a Naval Architect for the last 30+ years of my life,  couple things that I have learned are;

• a real life ship rarely looks exactly like the drawings
• no two ships ever are exactly alike
• official mods, and unofficial mods get done all the time
• paint fades, peels, and/or gets discolored all the time
• atmospheric and weather conditions can really affect how different colors look
• details can esily get lost under paint

Presumably alot of these will also apply to planes, trains, automobiles, and pieces of armor as well.

As such, to me, as long as something looks reasoable (or even as long as it looks how you want it to look) that may be more important than using the exact correct "FS Code" paint, number of rivets, raised or recessed panel lines (or even no panel lines at all), or a myriad of other issues.

PF

PFJN

Hi,

To be honest, its probably also worthwhile reminding yourself from time to time, that not all rivet counters are right, as well.

From real world experience, having worked as a Naval Architect for the last 30+ years of my life,  couple things that I have learned are;

• a real life ship rarely looks exactly like the drawings
• no two ships ever are exactly alike
• official mods, and unofficial mods get done all the time
• paint fades, peels, and/or gets discolored all the time
• atmospheric and weather conditions can really affect how different colors look
• details can esily get lost under paint

Presumably alot of these will also apply to planes, trains, automobiles, and pieces of armor as well.

As such, to me, as long as something looks reasoable (or even as long as it looks how you want it to look) that may be more important than using the exact correct "FS Code" paint, number of rivets, raised or recessed panel lines (or even no panel lines at all), or a myriad of other issues.

PF

 

I really just enjoy watching this beautiful works of art everyone creates

Welcome to the group with bad eyesight and shaky hands. I build what they used to call "Stand-off Scale". You put it on the shelf, back up about 5 ft. and say "Looks great to me". I do take a model or two to contests mainly to get out of the house for a day, see old friends, make new ones and learn new tricks of the trade. Over the years, I've won an award or two but the guys in the club had to let me know because I was talking to someone and not even paying attention. If I didn't win anything, so what. I hit the raffles for a few kits so I come out ahead (sometimes). 

You're on the right track. Enjoy.

Jim  

Models32466

THIS model is mine— Sorry but what i think is a perfect replica may be different than someone else.  This is supposed to be fun.  

What a breath of fresh air. Thanks for chiming in on all that.

Rivet counters 

Here is a hilarious "Hittler discovers" on YouTube regarding rivet counters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PJaMaEf4ZY

modelcrazy

Rivet counters 

Here is a hilarious "Hittler discovers" on YouTube regarding rivet counters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PJaMaEf4ZY

 

Thanks,I had lost track of that one and couldnt find it.

I'd like to clarify what we mean here by rivet counters.

Do we mean people to whom getting the last word in accuracy in their model is important to them, or do we mean people who criticize others for lack of fidelity to scale.  If we mean the latter, I think it is a valid criticism.

However, if we mean the former, then the group seems to be coming down hard on how one group puts emphasis on modeling, and that seems as bad as the second meaning of rivet counters.

littletimmy

Why, yes..... modeling IS FUN !!!!!

Just remember, when the "Rivit counter's " attack..... tell them, There's a PROTO-TYPE for everything !!!!

That include's any kit you just built.

 

That's the problem; rivet counter do not "attack", they just point out some items that they notice that might be of use in your next build. It may or may not be an area you care to fix, so take the advice or not. The choice is yours and it is definitely not an attack.

I don't build a lot of German armor and if I do, it's normally out of box or maybe with a few tweaks that are simple and common like drilling our machine guns. If someone points out that the markings I used are not appropriate for that particular "Ausf." I built, or that I used the wrong optional parts for that version, oh well. Better informed for next time.

Likewise if someone built an M1A2 Abrams tank but used USMC markings, for sure someone would point out that the Marines don't use the M1A2, but I doubt it could be considered an attack.

The presence of constructive criticism is one of the features of many modeling sites. I'd rather have someone engage in conversation on how I did something or how I could do something better than a chorus of "Great Jobs".

The best part about this hobby is that you can enjoy it at your own personal level. I like to build some kits OOB, others I like to super detail, but most I like to build some place in the middle.

I often equate model building to yard work. You may use a push mower, I use a riding mower and grass trimmer, and he has a landscaping crew do his lawn. None of us are doing it right or wrong, just differently.

I've been building models of tanks, aircraft, ships, and spacecraft for around 50 years or so.  It's my experience, that aside from the handful of club members who I know, no one who I see on a regular basis knows about them.  Even the club members who I do see, at least once a month, at my home for meetings don't really care if I have things totaly right.  The members are more impresed that have a kit or more done.  Most of them don't have any thing new to show and they don't know all the details or marking variatons that exits.  Modeling for me is just for the enjoyment of the hobby, building, detailing, super detailing, painting,  reseaching, marking and whatever it takes.  Its all for great fun.  The comrade ship I have with modelers I know is a great part of it.  They realy have a good time when we gather in my basement looking at my stash of unbuilt and built kitts talking about them. 

I don't enter contests anymore.  I just like seeing  all sorts of neat little models around. That's just me.  I've  just gone to a different phase of my life recently.  Probably related to age and some health issues.  Keep on having lots of fun!

Don Stauffer

I'd like to clarify what we mean here by rivet counters.

Do we mean people to whom getting the last word in accuracy in their model is important to them, or do we mean people who criticize others for lack of fidelity to scale.  If we mean the latter, I think it is a valid criticism.

However, if we mean the former, then the group seems to be coming down hard on how one group puts emphasis on modeling, and that seems as bad as the second meaning of rivet counters.

Mr Stauffer,

I think that you make a very good/valid point.  There is nothing wrong with a person trying to make their model "accurately" match something real world.  Though, that could eventually be an "elusive goal" since alot of stuff is not well documented.

To me the concern is when people start picking on other peoples models becuase of some "percieved" inaccuracy, since a) there is no garuntee that the "rivet counter's" data is actually more accurate than what the original model shows and b) maybe the original modeller doesn't really care, as he/she may be building the kit like they want rather than trying to make an effort at being super realistic.

I know that for me I enjoy kitbashing, scratchbuilding and what-iffing and so if someone want to build their model with a non-historical paint scheme or something that's fine with me, as to me its really just a "what-if" variant of something.

(As an aside, after having seen some modern planes in WWII era "throwback" paint schemes I am also interested in seeing some modern stuff in Korean War, Viet Nam War, or WWI era throwback schems as well).

PF

Well said PF.

If I post a picture of a build on this site or others and I am posting it as accurate, I expect some to point out what may be wrong, in the big picture. Paint or gun is incorect etc. that's OK, but when they go overboard about where a hose is suposed to go, an antenna isn't laying just right, a wave should'nt have that shape, the rigging wasn't like that at that stage of the war etc, really? Hoses, antennas, waves, rigging etc, etc, change all the time. I have seen and read that, read the Modelwarships forum sometime.

That's what I mean about rivet counters.

modelcrazy

...read the Modelwarships forum sometime.

That's what I mean about rivet counters. 

Or Hyperscale 

modelcrazy

Rivet counters 

Here is a hilarious "Hittler discovers" on YouTube regarding rivet counters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PJaMaEf4ZY

 

FABELHAFT!  Das sagt alles.

 Danke.

    Nino.

Count these rivets...

"The tracks should be 4 ballons wide in '45!" 

It's the rivet counters that provide many of the modeling manufacturers with information that leads to better, more accurate model kits.

I provided a lot of information through an intermediary to Dragon regarding the M1A1AIM kit (#3535) and M1A2SEP. I was given a free kit from Dragon for my assistance.

I am going on record that I value rivet conunters knowledge and help. I doubt that there is anyone here that doesn't. Like with all things there are people that take things to the extremes, and it's their approach to people that becomes a sticking point. I think that is the point being made. At the same time, I love it when a person can build a model and not get bogged down in the details of it, such as what the OP was celebrating. I think that is awesome, and I aplaud the man. 

Why do we always get bogged down into these side issues. Too much is read into what people say. We should celebrate each others work and have fun. The OP was having a fun moment, he wanted to share it, and the whole thing turns into an argument. I see this happen again and again. Let's build some bridges.

My 2 cents.

Tojo72

For me it's more about the condescending,sneering,matter in which any criticisms might be given.Point out anything you want,just make it a polite suggestion or recommendation

 

That's why I avoid commenting on other people's models unless asked. Make an innocent comment and someone takes it the wrong way, usually not the person who built the model, but someone else who feels the need to defend the builder.

Rob Gronovius

I provided a lot of information through an intermediary to Dragon regarding the M1A1AIM kit (#3535) and M1A2SEP. I was given a free kit from Dragon for my assistance.

That's pretty cool!

Rob Gronovius

Tojo72

For me it's more about the condescending,sneering,matter in which any criticisms might be given.Point out anything you want,just make it a polite suggestion or recommendation

That's why I avoid commenting on other people's models unless asked. Make an innocent comment and someone takes it the wrong way, usually not the person who built the model, but someone else who feels the need to defend the builder.

Over at PlanetFigure, the figure painters' forum, they implemented a "Brutal Honesty" forum, to help address that very issue.  People who post their work in that particular area do so with the understanding that comments are intended as constructive criticism, and so, no one has any grounds to take any comment personally.  It's intended to elicit precisely that kind of critique, too, not just, "Atta boy!" or "That looks great!"  You're expected to say why you think something looks great.

Of course, some people will take comments the wrong way, and some people will have trouble expressing an honest criticism, no matter what.  That's just human nature.

Rob Gronovius

Make an innocent comment and someone takes it the wrong way, usually not the person who built the model, but someone else who feels the need to defend the builder.

Hey Rob, I am chuckling. Not at you, but at that scenario. I have seen that very thing happen. I remember rolling my eyes and thinking, here we go! It's another flamer! Sure enough, it turned into an ugly thread. You are wise to do what you have learned.

I really like what Baron noted. We should have a section specific for people that want honest opinions. I think that is brilliant. That would knock down a lot of these discussions and misunderstandings. If anyone has some pull with FSM... it should be made so.