Priced out of the Hobby?

I think the hobby supports all skill levels and income levels. From Snap-tite to 1/32 Trumpeter w all the AM goodies. I think it's a good thing, too. There are many polite debates on these boards over "what is modelling", but the simple answer is it is what you want it to be. If one is perfectly happy with a "cheap" kit built OOB with Hand brushed water colors, good for him! If one wants to build the most accurat eplane ever built (ala chuckw), my hats off to him as well. We often fail to embrace the beauty of the wide scope our hobby offers.

Getting back to your original question, there are more and more "high end" kits and goodies out there, but the lower priced kits are still there. And you can still make a solid model form one of them.

I view the expensive kits as a sign that our hobby is indeed alive and well.

Don't think I could have said it any better Charles. 

Having such a wide range of kits and price points does indeed welcome any and all to the hobby.  I do have a few larger expensive kits, but I still love to build some of the less expensive kits OOB.  They usually end up being my favorites in the case, too.

mucker wrote:

I think the hobby supports all skill levels and income levels.

That is a great statement. While I do feel some models are out of reach for my taste/budget (like the 1/35 scale M26 Dragon Wagon that I'm doing for the Service & Supply GB...) the hobby itself supports whatever you can spend. For every person who won't buy a model because it is too expensive there are people right behind him that are willing to pay that price. I can't rationalize paying $120+ for a 1/350 scale USS North Carolina because the mortgage is due, but someone else will look in the checking account and say "I can go for that..." More power to them! Just post those models here so the rest of us can dream!!! 

Many years ago, modeling was a child's hobby. Most kits were $1 and change and could be picked up at the local 5¢ and dime, drug store, hardware store, etc. While I agree that there are models priced for most skill/age levels, they are not as readily available to the average 10 yr old as they were 30 years ago.

True "serious" modelers can still take an inexpensive kit, use skills, styrene and putty and make an impressive model from it. The hobby has matured with the boys who are now men. We now have massively expensive models that are impressive when completed.

We aren't quite as bad as we were 10 years ago. Remember the Gunze Sangyo high tech multimedia kits that were well over $100? Even the original Fine Molds Japanese tank kits were over a $100 for a plastic model that could sit on a post-it note.

Compared to those kits back then, the Tasca Sherman or LWS is a bargin.

If you break it down to dollars per hour of entertainment, hobby is quite cheap and affordable...

20-30$ kit, + 10-20$ supplies for a one month build = 1-2$ per day, or a cup of coffee or half a pack of cigarettes.

Good deals abound... Why pick up an Italieri or new Tamiya kit for 50$ when you can get a Dragon premium kit for less than 30$ on sale? Good Haseg or Tamiya 1:48 scale WW2 or modern 1:72 jets can be found for 20$.  1:72 armor at less than 10$. i just picked up an Eduard weekend edition Yak-3 (1:48) for 8$. Old (but still decent) 1:700 waterline series ships for less than 10$.

Or you can get one of the newest 1:350 IJN ships for 250$ and add 150$ for the PE set. Or drop 200$ on a resin ship.

As a hobby returnee, I see we have a whole range of options, but the hobby is still essentially very affordable.

djrost_2000 wrote:

In the most recent FSM issue, the editor speaks about those complaining that they are priced out of the hobby. I am on long-term disability and have very little money, but I still have a stash of about 14 kits.  I can't afford all the tools and goodies I'd like, but I still have my airbrush and have just enough tools for the job.   I can't afford a big multimedia monster kit but I can still afford many halfway-decent kits. What's your take?  Is the hobby too expensive?   As for me I can't do much of what I'd like but I can get by and still build decent-looking models. ~Dave

If one is used to building $50 kits and adding another $50 or so in AM parts then I can see them being priced out of the hobby. Stuff is getting more expensive. But as pointed out there is still plenty of cheap building to be done. Try something from scratch. Can't get much cheaper than that. Simple raw materials.

Rob Gronovius wrote:

Many years ago, modeling was a child's hobby.

...and the hobby has grown up with us! You make some other great points, Rob. Supply and demand has indeed brought about some cheaper kits over the years.

Sometimes I think that today's children won't build moidels in the future becuase they're too busy with Wii, PLaystation,computers, etc. But when I look back at my youth I was awfully busy playing baseball, football, hockey, riding bikes, etc. And then we all go through the "chasing girls (or guys)" stage. But somehow we reach back into the fondness of our earlier days and remember models again. Only now we have money and that 1/35 Karl Moser is looking pretty nice....!

Lots of good points here folks.  I personally don't think we're being priced out of the hobby.   15 years ago, a good 1/72 aircraft kit by Hasegawa or Fujimi ran in the $15.00 range.  Those kits still sell for about the same amount, plus Academy makes some great little kits that you can get for $10.00 ($6.00 with a HL coupon).   A Dragon premium tank with all the goodies runs in the $40-50 range, and a 1/350 ship runs for around $100, but those kits also take proportionally longer to complete, so the cost to the builder is still the same per hour.  I take about 20-30 hrs for a 1/72 airplane, about 40-50 for a 1/35 tank, and way more for a ship, so the cost to me is less than a dollar an hour, regardless of what kit I'm building.  In my book thats a pretty cheap hobby. 

One other point is that a hobby budget helps make any kit affordable.  I put $20-40 aside every month for modelling.  If I want a quickie kit, I can spend that month's budget - if I want a kit with all the bells and whistles, I can just save for a few months while finishing some kits from the stash.  

Just my $.02

 Jeff

wyoroy wrote:

Get the 40% coupon for Hobby Lobby  This is how some of us afford the high priced kits.

Bingo... That's the only way I'll even touch a kit that's retailing for more than 40.00 bucks...

I see part of the problem as the being in the level of detail demanded by the builders over the years... We wanted more and more interior stuff, without havng to be "bothered" with making it from basic materials.  Personally, I'll spend extra money on Evergreen and Plastruct styrene, but unless a kit comes with it, I don't buy much resin and metal... My "after-market" costs range from about .25 cents to 5 bucks... I've always been a tightwad anyway... When I first became a "serious" modeler, back in the 70's, there wasn't much in the way of AM parts, so I naturally went the route of making my own... I learned how to cast my own, vac-form, and rely on the parts box (which is actually about 20 boxes, in my case ... Regarding all the stuff out there now, It did level the playing field a bit for the average modeler to compete with super-detailer, and even surpass him in some cases.  Basically, if you wanna open your wallet, some guy will build a part for you... So I decided to put the money into the tools for making stuff m'self... I also learned how to "See Miniature" in everyday objects, everywhere I went...   M'self, I can squeeze the snot outta the nose on Jefferson's face on a nickel, lol...

Overall we got what we asked for, just at a high price... So I still scratch-build 95% of my detail and suoer-detail stuff... Hizzoner, Shep Paine, made a "Gizmologist" outta me early-on, before the kit prices went crazy, and I can still do a lotta fun stuff with all the old kits... Thank God fer Ebay and kit hoarders, in that respect...  I've picked up about 90 kits since June, not a one under 15 years old...  'Cept figure sets... Although the need for Kevlar helmets and M-17 pro-mask carriers has diminished for me since I got a replacement Mattel vac-U-Form...  Off Ebay... I DID buy a resin detail kit for the Italeri M109 Howitzer, but that's because I'm using it as a master, since I gotta build 6 of 'em for one of my former Battery Commander's retirement party next year... Doing a VERY large dio of the entire gun line, complee with howitzers, ammo carriers (M548s), FDC M577 and "his" 1/4-ton in 1/35th... However, I digress..

Frankly, I'd like to see a return by modelers to scratch-build details and push away from the AM goodies.  It's becoming  a dying art and the current trend of magazine articles featuring the use of a LOT of AM on high-end kits is NOT helping bring the costs down.  Not to brag, but keep an eye on my Monogram TBF build in the aircraft forum... We're talking about super-detailng a "toy" kit into a fairly accurate and highly detailed bird, with ZERO resin or photo-etch.. Definately Old School... Nothin' wrong with those old kits, and doin' 'em is like going home again...

But, as was stated, if it wasn't Hobby Lobby's 40% off coupons coming up fairly regularly, I wouldn't touch any of the new stuff... I'll keep stocking up on T34's and M-41s, and be doing a lot more Korean War stuff if they catch on and quit doing it..

Gotta say, I've pretty much greatly reduced my purchasing of new kits, but the prices of paints, glues, etc, are still taking a sizeable chunk now that I'm working on reducing my stash. I dropped $34.00 just on a few paints and supplies the other day.

I shop for "gotta have" kits on eBay mostly. You can still get a deal there...sometimes.

I did pick up the DML E-100 right off the shelf of my LHS a few months ago though.

There are a lot of great comments here. First is agree that the hobby can span what you can afford. I don't think anyone is oriced out. There is always the desire for bigger better and more expensive but...if you stay within you means of today you can be happy now and work on improving your tomorrow.

Rob made some excellent points. As a kid I could find models almost anywhere. Today, they are hard to find....thats the first problem.  Cost a buck back then....yep.......and gasoline was 39 cents per gallon. Recently gas was $3.90 and you can still find some kits for $10 - 15 bucks. Hummm, the cost has kept up with inflation, what has incresed the costs is our inflation of detail desire. As a kid, you build was almost always OOB. Today many builds are AM$$.

Look at the cost of many other hobbies. I think you will find this hobby to generally be cheap.

Like with life...you have to live within your means. You need some disposable income to have a hobby. With anything in life you need to create a budget and stick with it. Also, there will always be someone with less and someone who can afford more. Don't look at anyone else...ask the question...are you happy....if you are then it does not matter what you can afford...if you are not..well, you should find another hobby....BE HAPPY.

Rounds Complete!!

I disagree.  The price of the models is pretty good, I think.  Materials, not much different.  In THAT regard very affordable.  But in cases like mine, there isn't a lot *I* can do. 

I live in Leadville Colorado.  Population is a bit large for me- 4,200.  High in the Rocky Mountains, lots of terrorist-tourists, and REMOTE. 

My preference is ships.  I don't like car models, airplanes are ok, sci-fi is so-so.  There are car models in a number of places.  Not a huge selection, but there's one or two around.  But ships, that's a different story.

I have looked all through out this county and the adjoining counties, but to no avail.  Chaffee county, nothing.  Lake county (where I live), nothing.  Eagle county, havn't covered the entire county but so far nothing.  Summit county, nothing.  Clear Creek county, *does not appear* to have anything.  Gilpin county, nothing.  And the same for Park, Saguache, Gunnison, Pitkin & Delta counties.  I don't think there's anything in Montrose or Garfield counties.  I will have to double check on those.  But hey, IF I'm going to drive that far, why bother?  Glenwood Springs is about 108 miles.  Ten miles further and I can drive to Denver (opposite direction though).  Look for Leadville on the map.  You'll see we are remote.  And with fuel prices like they are, it soon makes modeling a painstaking experience.  

This justifies scratch-building, but as I know from experience, unless it's a custom build, you need something to reference from. 

I have e-mailed several companies that make or sell models, and so far no response.  So it looks like ordering from the internet is out as well.  Oh well, guess I have to go to Denver again.  MAYBE six months from now.  Just going there for models and paints ain't worth it.

Badger,

The closest hobby store to me is 1 1/2 hours away so I do all my shopping (kits, paints, tools, materials) online.   I use squadron.com, model expo, micromark, bear air and I sometimes search for better buys by typing in kit maker, kit and scale into my search engine.  Ebay can be a good way to get things, but when buying a kit you want ot ask the seller on the condition of the decals.  Squadron has a pretty decent selection of ship kits.

~Dave

When I was a kid (25-30 years ago) I can recollect most any Matchbox or Airfix 1/72 fighter sized model being around 2 weeks pocket money, with the paints & tools being cheap enough to get with the change (or a little bit of "I just need one of those as well" begging). As many have said, these type of kits were readily available in every other toy & book/stationery shop.

As time has moved on, I dont see that kit prices have increased much in real terms, although I would say that paint, chemical & posibly tool prices have without doubt increased. As for availability, from where I am anyway (middle, nowhere), if it wasnt for the WWW I would not have got back into the hobby. I live in a town with a population including outlying bits of about 25>30k - a gold star of silver dollar to anyone who can find any sort of kit for sale in a 60 mile radius. This must hinder youngsters from getting into the game?

I can remember my first visit to a big/proper model shop, when I was 10 & when I very possibly wet my pants. After about an hour of "browsing" I bought my first "real" model, I didnt know it was a "real" model at the time, I just liked the pic on the box. It was a Tamiya Abrams M1, only when I opened the box (where I possibly soiled my pants in homage) did I appreciate that not all kits were like Matchbox. The M1 was dearer than any kit I had previously bought, but it was within reach.

One of these days I hope to wet (or soil or both) my pants again, when I open the box to Trumpeter's TU-160 - only thing is its a bit expensive (only joking).

JMart wrote:

If you break it down to dollars per hour of entertainment, hobby is quite cheap and affordable... 20-30$ kit, + 10-20$ supplies for a one month build = 1-2$ per day, or a cup of coffee or half a pack of cigarettes. Good deals abound... Why pick up an Italieri or new Tamiya kit for 50$ when you can get a Dragon premium kit for less than 30$ on sale? Good Haseg or Tamiya 1:48 scale WW2 or modern 1:72 jets can be found for 20$.  1:72 armor at less than 10$. i just picked up an Eduard weekend edition Yak-3 (1:48) for 8$. Old (but still decent) 1:700 waterline series ships for less than 10$. Or you can get one of the newest 1:350 IJN ships for 250$ and add 150$ for the PE set. Or drop 200$ on a resin ship. As a hobby returnee, I see we have a whole range of options, but the hobby is still essentially very affordable.

You said it, with this hobby you have to pick your battles, or your budget I should say One kit  provides hours of enjoyment, and by the time your done, youve probably saved up to get another one, unless your like me and you like over 100 kits in your stash then you have to shop for bargains , which I do I wait for 40% sales at hobby lobby, or I use the Coupon codes at Tower hobbies, instead of photo etch I may scratchbuild something, I am a middle income guy with lots of bills and I still manage to afford a few kits every month, but I make sacrafices, like only eating out once a week or watching where my money goes during the week where theres a will theres a way.  

Lt. Zogg wrote:

Lots of good points here folks.  I personally don't think we're being priced out of the hobby.   15 years ago, a good 1/72 aircraft kit by Hasegawa or Fujimi ran in the $15.00 range.  Those kits still sell for about the same amount, Just my $.02  Jeff

granted the price of plastic can cover a 15.00 model out to about 22-23 bucks but the other 20 for a pc of paper with some pretty pictures(decals) on it  and then we wonder why the hobby is dying

think about it, a newbie goes  to a hobby shop sees a FEW kits in the beginners range. then sees that a larger majority of the kits are in the heavier price range, then the newbie says to himself  Whoa  what am i getting into

Try card modeling. I download most of my models free from the Internet. Granted, I work in a different genre, "real space," but with a little work and patience, you can produce excellent models. I've even beaten well-built and finished plastic entries at IPMS contests....

Still, some cardmodelers working in genres like aircraft or ships or armor have produced some pretty stunning stuff. You can wade through some of the build threads at http://www.zealot.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=363 and see for yourself.

One of the big reasons I switched to card modeling -- aside from the expense -- is that plastic modeling just didn't seem to present that many challenges anymore. When you see people holding off building a kit because they want to wait on some array of aftermarket parts to come out, then you have to wonder what has happened to the hobby. I mean, jeez.... We're getting so lazy we don't even want to mask our own canopies anymore.

There's a great challenge in figuring out how to produce a 3D object by using paper and cardstock. It's fun. The chemicals involved don't present health hazards. And if you screw up a part or lose it, you just print out another....  

I try to stick to cheapie clearance kits when possible. Once a quarter when I get my modest bonus check I wil buy something nice. Recently picked up CyberHobby/Dragon's Stuh 42 Ausf. G and Dragon's M1A2 SEP with my bonuses. I am keeping them in my stash till my skills catch up with the quality of these kits.

I have been leaning towards just doing figures to keep costs down. Figures are much easier to transport when stuck in a Hotel for weeks at work.

SST 

It seems like a lot of aircraft carrier kits out there are several dozens of dollars if not well over $100.  I just look for the bargains like the Italeri 1/700 Admiral Kuznetsov which I got for around $12 plus shipping.  Looks like a decent kit too!

~Dave

All this talk about how (add whinning tone to voice) "I can't afford this hobby anymore" to you I say "HORSE HOCKEY!" 

I was at Trainfest Friday evening and the number of hobbyists who paid for the premium ticket so they could get in to attend the "vendor only" portion of the show, eat, drink and watch the retail and club exhibitors set up their displays was unbelievable. This was primary to allow retailers to meet with manufacturers to conduct business, but there were a lot of window shoppers there too.

One of the club exhibits in the manufacturers area featured a garden railway set up that was done on the cheap. The locomotive was a toy train that one of them scored at a rummage sale for $5.00. All of the figures were closeout Christmas ornaments they purchased well after Christmas, which they repainted into convincible people. Even Santa was seen fishing long the river out of uniform.

Every hobby has a price tag, so does everything else in life. For someone to say they are being priced out of the hobby, well then you are trying to maintain champaign and caviar tastes in models when you should be sipping beer.

Talked to a guy this morning who was servicing my sons furnance, he was excited that he was heading out west to go hunting Monday morning...$8000.00 and that doesn't include the gun, ammo, transporation, clothing, camping gear or licenses...just the outfitter.  He'd probably have a better chance of getting his deer right here close to home...and save a ton of cash to boot...it's all about choices.

If I follow the logic of I can't afford...well then I can't afford to own and drive a car...though I'd like to own and drive a new Mercedes, I guess I'd better stop driving all together since I cannot afford one. Sure many may not be able to afford the latest Trumpter kits coming onto the market, but does this mean you should give the hobby up? In a practical sense you don't give up driving just because you cannot afford the Mercedes, instead you look at a Pontiac. Who says you have to buy new to stay in the hobby?

Just as you might have to look at a used car to fulfill your transportation needs, finding preowned models at swap meets or contests allows one to purchase great kits at reasonable prices. There are other venues to score kits at bargain prices, just as there are ways to purchase automobiles...you just have to set your budget and shop within it. It can be done!!!

I cut my model building teeth on kits which are considered "inferior" by todays standards. I learned a great deal from those kits and to me they are still gold! If you find that you can't build one of those old Revell or Monogram kits without a tremendous amount of frustration because you only build the higher end "shake n bake" kits then you have only yourself to blame. Time for you to learn how to build models...not just rattle the box and have a masterpiece fall onto the bench that requires a bit of painting.

Priced out of the hobby...sorry there are so many old kits returning to the marketplace at reasonable pricepoints (Monogram 1:48 B-17 & AC-47 for example) as well as those from companies such as 21st Century Toys.

Look at some of those sows ears that turned into silk purses...some without any aftermarket and those that did. Those that did use a great deal of scratch building and aftermarket accessories...like John Vojtech B-2 Bomber. What you put into the model is up to YOU. You don't have to add all the extras to enjoy the hobby unless thats what you want/need to do to get the enjoyment you seek.

That is unless you are some sort of plastics snob. It all boils down to what choices you make...go without the Mercedes and settle for a Buick....pass on the Trumpeter and instead pick up the Monogram...the choice is yours and only yours to make, but don't tell me you cannot afford to stay in this hobby. Maybe you need to forgo the cable television for a while so you can spend that money on modeling supplies, which will probably give you a longer sense of accomplishment and satisfaction...it boils down to choices...what do you want in life? 

JMHO

All cogent points, Gerry, and I don't disagreee.

However, that doesn't mean that corporate greed and shortsightedness—and they are definitely present—are not part of the problem. Fortunately, as you point out, a number of very substantial companies have recognized the problem, and like good business people, are taking advantage of the situation in ways that help remedy the problem. Kudos to Revell, 21st Century Toys, and Hobby Boss, among others, I'm sure.

There is almost always a brighter side. The current economic downturn will retrench prices and business philosophy at least in the short term. One of two things will happen in our hobby:

1. Prices will come down in response to reduced demand, especially if manufacturers of the "lower end" kits see a smaller drop in profits than those producing high end kits.
2. Prices will go up to compensate for reduced volume. Thanks to the companies just mentioned and others like them, this is less likely to happen.

to Hawkeye - I was at Hobby Expo which is the Hobby Manufacturers Show in Chicago. Plastic models are a very minor part of the show. The bulk of the show was model railroading and RC Planes and Cars.

People are still falling all over themselves for RC equipment. To put a plane together with all the AM accessories cost almost as much as my stash. People talk about a hard time putting down $40 for a new armor kit but people put down $100s, approching $1000s on RC equipment.

Same goes for the model railroad area.

We are a spoiled in the plastic model hobby. We have become accostomed to cheap kits. Now with more detail, AM, resin details and bags to hang all over a model, what did you expect. The hobby is moving in the direction of model RR with numerous details and supplies. They are not for free.

Much of the problem with the economy is people spending WAY more than their income could afford. Such is the same in modeling. Buy and build what you can afford. Go back to the old ways of scratch built details.

There are many, many great old kits on Ebay and in other places at very reasonable prices. They are not the superkits but many great modellers of the past made great builds out of them. It just take more work.

Sorry to be somewhat negitive but I applaude Hawkeye in he had the courage to say what...until now I did not.

Make the best of what you can....you can still enjoy the hobby, even during these trying economic times.

Rounds Complete!!

redleg12 wrote:

to Hawkeye - I was at Hobby Expo which is the Hobby Manufacturers Show in Chicago. Plastic models are a very minor part of the show. The bulk of the show was model railroading and RC Planes and Cars. People are still falling all over themselves for RC equipment. To put a plane together with all the AM accessories cost almost as much as my stash. People talk about a hard time putting down $40 for a new armor kit but people put down $100s, approching $1000s on RC equipment. Same goes for the model railroad area. We are a spoiled in the plastic model hobby. We have become accostomed to cheap kits. Now with more detail, AM, resin details and bags to hang all over a model, what did you expect. The hobby is moving in the direction of model RR with numerous details and supplies. They are not for free.

first to say i am not attacking anything redleg12 said   but.....

i am making an observation based on his above statement .

i like my static models and model rr ,don't like R C  but anyway

i understand people spending more on rr and rc because one can USE them for years to come

we as static model builders ONLY have to look forward to a dustcloth for years to come.  just a point not an arguement or anything else

just  a tad but........

Too expensive? Not if you budget and (four letter word here) SAVE. If it is really worth it only you can tell, this is your hobby. What may be worth it to me isn't to another modeler. A tricked out model with every aftermarket set may be your cup of tea, but not mine.

I have seen some beautiful models completed using an old Monogram kit, bottom line if you think this is too expensive you will either find another hobby or a way to do this one your way and on the budget you set up.

I have a huge stash I have carted all over the country waiting for retirement to allow me to settle in and BUILD. So my budget includes only paints and glue. . .and putty, and brushes, and an air brush, and a compressor and tweezers and blades. . .

Will