GMorrison

I'm actually pretty thin skinned when I get critiqued, so in turn I try to be polite to others.

Holy cow, an honest man posting.

The subject of 'to critique or not to critique' was discussed year after year on a photography forum I was married to until it ceased to exist a short time ago. After years of perusal, I came to the conclusion that some folks can take it, some can't, so unless one understands which sort of folk one is addressing, my current opinion is to keep the critique positive.

I'm like Bill, I choose to believe I want critique but reality is I'm also thin-skinned. (well-put on GM's part).  If somebody I know does it (like one of you guys), I'll be fine with it. If a new guy who just joined with 10 posts does it, not so much.

I always thought this might be a good topic for a Masters in Modeling thesis.

I’m not one to critize a build nor am I an expert when it comes to accuracy. I build to satisfy myself. If I have a question on a certain subject, I will ask. Never have I said a build is wrong or inaccurate. Everybody is entitled to build at their best of ability and to learn new methods and tricks along the way is invaluable.

At 65 I guess that makes me an old geezer but never had I ever gave a discouraging word to any modeler about his/her build. I enjoy the hobby and seeing kits made by fellow modlers the good and the bad. Heavens know I made a few bad builds over the years by being in a rush and skipping the basics but I chalk it up as a learning experience.

The key is to enjoy the hobby and have fun. That's what I keep telling myself when I trying folding or bending PE parts.

Reaper didn't say this young fella quit modeling he just believed he may or afraid he might.

It isn't every day you get reamed by Stanley Tigerman.

I had my share of that while I worked at SOM.

It does give one a certain perspective on tough criticism.

I'm actually pretty thin skinned when I get critiqued, so in turn I try to be polite to others. The www is a pretty wild frontier, but in-person diplomacy is important.

GMorrison

Esp. after being up three nights in a row at the drafting board, drinking a jar's worth of Taster's Choice, and having to present to a visiting professor.

 

I think the issue at hand is that they didn't give any positive feedback. I am sure the builder would have been open to critique if they delivered it better. Done in the right way, it's good stuff.  

If you see him again I would encourage you to pull him aside and tell him how you feel about his work.

The story is sad to hear.

Esp. after being up three nights in a row at the drafting board, drinking a jar's worth of Taster's Choice, and having to present to a visiting professor.

I think that positive criticism of one's model is a good thing. It promotes better modeling skills by incorporating other modeler's ideas. I know that accepting criticism is a difficult thing for most modelers to accept. Their model is such a personal thing. I am a retired architect. I would have to pin my building designs on a wall and a team of 5 or 6 people would critique my designs. At first it was very difficult to deal with all that criticism. After a while I learned to accept the criticism because it improved the quality of my designs. Positive criticism is a good thing. Negative criticism can be emotionally dibilitating and should be avoided.

I also have no use for folks who throw in pointless criticisms, especially in the case of a very well done model. Geez louise, I never even knew about putty until I was almost thirty, and I still think the kits I built before then appear just fine. As far as I'm concerned, a decent paint job is 90% of what makes a model stand out. I don't belong to any modeling clubs, and I have no desire to enter contests. I just build for me, and that has always been good enough. Just bugs me how easily folks quit things these days. Nobody is likely to produce a perfect model the first time, and it's unrealistic to expect to do so. Part of the fun is in learning how to improve.

I don't know if this person is going to quit the hobby, when his own eyes can tell him he put forth a great effort, but, if he does, it indicates we have raised a generation or two of people who will never be able to deal with any problems at all in life. I just worry this means he'll behave the same way in the workplace. If he can't take this, how many jobs will he quit after somebody tells him he could have done better work? Part of growing up is learning when you have to listen and when you should just ignore the naysayers. If we all lived our lives based strictly upon what others thought, every one of us would either end up being miserable all the time, or we'd commit suicide. I believe every person on this forum has already proven they know how how to separate the good remarks from the useless ones, and that little skill is the one I think we should work the hardest to pass on.  

Rotorhead, you are a resilient person who can take it, and that is a good thing to be.  And you built that model by yourself, which was what everyone else was supposed to do.  That shows good character and honor.

Unfortunately not everyone is strong in that way.  The local IPMS club had a model contest at a shopping mall that was open to the public.  There was this fellow who brought in a model.  He stopped at a table that had entries already on it, took one look at them, then turned away and left.  I felt awful that he was intimidated into not participating.  Who knows what could have happened if he had stayed?  I met one one of my future modeling buddies at that same contest, so I am grateful that he wasn't scared away.  He was a relative beginner at the time, but I could definitely see potential in his work, plus he had a really enthusiastic attitude.  Since then, I made up my mind to always try to be helpful to beginners and make modeling feel less intimidating to them.

And a confession:  I was not a particularly confident modeler either.  When I attended my first local IPMS meeting I felt that intimidation.  If not for two members who took the time to greet me and ask me about what I liked to build, etc., I would have never returned.  So I know what it feels like firsthand to be scared away by the old fart experts, and that is why I hold those types in such contempt.

Rotorhead does make a good point, IMO. All critique is not bad, and I sort of forgot that while writing my rant.

Might depend on how it was delivered, and I failed to consider that.

I'm an old guy, but I ain't never been grumpy. I do, however, have a bit of a different takeaway from this story. I built my first kit with my father, in 58 or 59, and all we did was glue it together and put on the decals. It was the Monogram P-40, and I thought it was beautiful. I built all my early kits this way until I was in the Boy Scouts. One year we all had to buy a model kit for Christmas and give it to somebody else. I got a Blue Angels jet (possibly a Panther, don't really remember), and we had to build it before the next meeting. This was the first time I ever tried to paint a model, and I did it by hand. Didn't even know there was such a thing as an airbrush. Well, I did it, but those yellow lines were just a mess. I was embarrassed as hell to put it on display because everybody else brought in fantastic looking models. They had a contest, and, believe it or not, I came in second place. Know why? It was because the judges knew most the kits were actually built by the fathers, and the guy who won was the only other kid who actually built it himself. It was the old Revell B-36, and it was so nice I wanted a B-36, too.

My point is, this incident didn't scare me off the hobby. I was still mortified I had to put such an awful plane on display, and I immediately threw it away, but my resolve was only strengthened. I swore I would never build such a monstrosity again.

I've hit the hobby pretty hard since then, and I'm happy to say every one of my kits could win a Boy Scout contest now, but it bothers me the young kids today don't seem to have this same drive. Something's lacking when quitting is the first option taken after a few jerks shoot off their fat mouths. Whatever happened to "If at first you don't succeed... Try, try again!"?

I'm no spring chicken, yet I have little tolerance for grumpy old people. I've been through crap in my life too, so have you, and so has everyone else. I could give a hoot less about the sob story that created their attitude. If they are in good enough shape to be out and about and hanging around a hobby shop, they are in good enough shape to pretend to be decent members of our human race.

This isn't the first time I've read here about 'creepy old men' hanging around the LHS, or sometimes the model aisle at Hobby Lobby. At first I thought OP's were maybe jumping to conclusions, I guess there might be something to this.

Quite a few years back (in fact when Revell released their Arado float plane) I built it up and entered it into a local model show. I did my due diligence and researched the aircraft and colours and painted it up with RLM 72/73/65 maritime paint matched to chipsets and known splinter patterns with references to photos of original aircraft.

filling in the sheet on the build I noted paint, build OOB etc.

Judges comments were that it was a good build to a very high standard but the paint was wrong. When I queried this, the judge told me he didn't know anything about aircraft.

Never been inclined to enter a competition since. I would rather be judged by my peers than an idiot.

I do so enjoy seeing other builds and seeing the techniques used and learning them which is why I will always try and post on the way I do stuff because it may just help someone else.

If you see that guy again, encourage him and tell him to join up here where he can get help, learn new stuff and make lots of new friends and most importantly.... Have fun!

I myself would have stood up for that guy and told the old dudes to shut up unless that can say something positive about this first build!

That's the soldier in me though!

James

It sounds like we all agree about the sad situation that occurred during that young mans visit. Lets hope he still continues in the hobby but with some other hobby shop... 

Another dimension to our hobby is the friendship, comradrie, and respect we establish. This should go on regardless if it is through a forum or in person. It sounds to me that the LHS in question will not be around much longer if that is thier level of customer service. 

I am happy that we, in our forum, are most always honoring the golden rule. For me, I can see great things in any build. I, like many, do not hold a strong interest in every single type of modeling subject, but that does not mean I cannot appreciate the skills and effort applied to ANY build.  

To me each build is an opportunity to share some knowledge or learn something new from another; and gain a new hobby friend in the process.

P.S.: Life is short.... enjoy the ride...... nobody gets out alive anyway.

Ben 

Ok, this story really burns my @$$. Being married into an Italian family, there‘d be a couple harsh responses from me: **** off and ## #### yourself. Nobody asked for your opinion. I can guarantee that’ll shut’em up real fast.

Im my 6 years on this forum, i have never run into anything other than helpful, constructive criticism. And I have become a better modeler for it. I used to model just fantasy stuff, namely Warhammer 40K and i got real darn good at it, real darn good. But when i made the switch to real life subject matter, well i was weighed, measured and found wanting (not by anyone here). My first attempt was the Revell F4U Corsair. I built it up, liked it but wasnt happy. You can actually see it in my post collection. Everyone was super nice, said that it was great for my first attempt and even offered ideas on where i could make it even better. Thats what kept me in it. And my skills have steadily started to increase, not as great as most of you here, but im getting there. Im still learning and trying new techniques.

As for the young modeler, hopefully me telling him that he did a fantastic job will help wash away the later crticisms of the old farts....I mean timers, and he will not walk away.

To all of you that commented, thank you for having the right attitude and for inspiring those of us not yet on the same level to strive to do better and continue to love the hobby!

Tanker - Builder

So ;

 Is there any real difference between " Deals Wheels " and an " Egg Plane" ? Just a different sense of humor Like the old Monogram " FlapJack " .

 

Exactly. It’s the sense of humor involved. And perhaps it’s a bit of nostalgia for that time in childhood when I first came across them. I have no such connection for the egg/toon stuff. I’ve seen those built into great models. I can appreciate the workmanship involved. 

So ;

 Is there any real difference between " Deals Wheels " and an " Egg Plane" ? Just a different sense of humor Like the old Monogram " FlapJack " .

Real G;

 AMEN !!!!! T.B.

Okay ! 

 Hmmm , darned that's a nice job .I tried many times with that part and it didn't turn out that way for me ? Or , Hey ! Are those aftermarket Decals and which company did you contact ? Oh  ,and you got them on so beautifully .Gees , can't anyone say anything nice about someone else's models ? What the *&() happened to plain old courtesy ? T.B.

There is a local guy who refuses to have anything to do with our club (which is also the local IPMS chapter), because we don't build to his standards.  Granted he is an award level modeler, but he could be a font of information and tips, help etc. to the rest of us.

All in all, I think the club is way better off without him..........

If someone wants to slam what I build, fine, but they can expect incoming as they are told to stick it where the sun never shines.  If they want to help with ideas or tips, or a better way, I'm all ears.  The latter is all I've ever run into here, and it is appreciated.

Those old timers need a Rivet Counter Intervention.  Watch out you grouchy, joyless old farts, that kid is gonna show you down one of these days.  Unless you killed his enthusiasm, in which case we can skip the intervention and just hand out swift kicks to the a**.

Plastic modeling is a hobby, which means it should be enjoyable.  And while constructive feedback from others is valuable, it should be up to the individual to decide how far to take it, and not have to endure someone else's personal dogma ("...well the real thing was NOT that way so your model is INACCURATE").  I have noticed these self-appointed experts are the least happy people in any modeling group.  They need to be less serious.  And maybe get shown a magic trick using a pencil.

https://flic.kr/p/srR4kf][/url]Joker by N.T. Izumi, on Flickr

It annoys me to no end when some guy says a model kit was a waste of plastic because the real thing didn't win any wars.  Wars not make one great, and plastic toys do not fight wars.  Yeah, I just called your precious little fantasies TOYS, you scale-only curmudgeons.  How many Zeroes did your 1/48 Hellcat shoot down?  Not counting the imaginary ones you shot down when you thought no one was looking.  I have been told to my face that plastic models MUST have historical significance in order to be valid, which is just a heaping load of horse manure.

Build what you want, how you want.  Strive to improve if you want to, and focus on having fun.  Oops, I used all caps on some words.  I'd better dial it down and take it less seriously.  I apologize for the rant, as it is a sore spot for me.

Sounds like a bunch of old Sheldon Coopers. They only know how to look for faults in something someone else has accomplished and point them out. Total lack of understanding of how to be complimentary.

Dang, I like MY models to be accurate, but every time I'm talking about other models I try to show some respect for the work and time and love that went into those models. That was clearly missing here - pity!

Thanks for reading and have a nice day

Paweł

I do not mind constructive criticism of my models at all. For example, "Your brake lines are okay, but I have a better idea. I'll post a photo of my model." That's good, positive constructive criticism. I like to see what other modelers have done.   What I do not like is purely subjective criticism, " I don't like the Bare Metal Foil on your airplanes. It looks fake. It doesn't look like the real airplane at all." My typical respone is, "Okay, why don't you post some photos of your airplanes in NMF." Guess what happens? Nothing! 

I agree with Modelcrazy, this is supposed to be a fun hobby. It's also a way to share ideas. We are not building perfect minatures of the real thing. After all, that would not be possible.