BIG Russian Jet Groupie GB

Lol, this isn't supposed to be a contact sport!    

Oh, and Dre, I flipped the plane around to spray some part of the bottom and my fingers landed right on the IP. Since apparently I didn't glue the cockpit tub in securely, when I inadvertently pressed on the IP with my fingers, the pressure popped loose the IP and the tub (only at the front). Luckily the cockpit remained secured in the back, or the whole kit might have ended up in the trash. :-) Good times.

Thanks, guys. Yeah, Dre, despite my best (worst?) efforts to make it otherwise (ie, a ball of plastic), it looks like a Flanker. ;-)

T3ch--Spotted em! Those are the North Star burner cans. You probably don't want to know what I went through, but....I ended up buying not one, not two, but three sets of those things. Yep. Three. I probably spent as much on those as I did on the whole kit. Oh well.

The assembly of the turkey feathers doesn't take that long (maybe an hour or less), but I ruined the first two sets trying to get it right. The trick is trying to line them up correctly while making sure you've wrapped them tightly around the resin tube, which is hard because you're working with some really thick PE metal (brass?), there are four sets/layers of feathers, and I'm not sure that all of them line up correctly if you follow the instructions.

So after I ruined the first--"Oh, OK, NOW I know what I need to do." Then I ruined the second and "OK, NOW I GOT IF FIGURED OUT." Third time's the charm, I guess, although they're not perfectly assembled, they're still better than the kit or Aires cans.

Then after all that, you have to assemble the flame holder, which on the upside has a ridiculous amount of detail and is a whole model unto itself, the downside being the PE parts are so small you'd need an electron microscope to get everything assembled. So I left off the smallest bits since you won't be able to see them anyway.

Nice work Porkbits.  I see you have the PE exhaust.  How difficult are they to assemble correctly? How long did it take you?

Looking like a Flanker to me, PB.    Knocking parts off is part of the fun, oh yeah.   (but how did you knock the cockpit tub loose whilst spraying Future??)

I should be able to get some oven cleaner onto my own tonight as using brake fluid did a whole lotta of nothing to actually remove the paints...  I can't say when I'll get around to throwing more paint at it though.

Getting there.....

Maybe one more light coat of Future, dry, then I start the camo....

This build seems to be fighting me every step of the way, but I'm fighting back, goddammit (example: knocked loose the IP and cockpit tub while spraying future, spent an hour re-assembling the PE bits that fell off and then wrestling everything back into place--modeling is fun, right?). 

PB

Nice! Same bird I'm working on now.

Although I started in December, before any of the issues in the Ukraine. :-)

Thank you everyone.

My next project is going to be the Trumpeter 1/72 Su-27 done-up as Ukraine Blue 56.  I have ordered a decal sheet for this project from Ivan at modelsua.com, but given the unrest in the region (no fault of modelsua) ....we'll see.

Thats a great looking Flanker and the First SU-33 I have seen on here.

Kudos to you posted on the other thread. :-) Awesome build, sir.

Here's my contribution to the group build...  

I just finished the Hasegawa 1/72 Su-33 Flanker-D Yellow 13 from Ace Combat.  Check out the build thread here.  More completion pictures can be found here.  I hope you like it!

Agreed! :-)

No way clean is best in my opinion.

Blue 56 definitely gets a white nose, based on my references. I bought AKAN's white for this purpose which is labeled as "Streamlined antenna covers (radiotransparent) for aircrafts Su-24/27/30/32/33/34."

I'm definitely going for a clean build, so I guess a little stark is OK. Or maybe I'll mix in a tiny bit of gray to tone it down.

What colour are you going to do the nose? Just curious as the appearance is very stark in my opinion sometimes grey looks better and other times white, and a gloss green looks great!

All duly noted! I'm a big fan of Future for sealing and protecting finishes, so will definitely use it to protect the finished paint and camo areas.

PB you have to leave the alclad 24 hours before touching it with tape, it will seem bone dry after a few mins but the tape should definitely wait at least 24 hours. Also if you leave the alclad to the last, use future on the finished paint a few coats should do it, you may remember the Mirage I did, well after the glass coat and had the decals on it, I then put about 3 coats of future over the decals, the finish was so strong that I could actually buff the surface of the model without even touching the decals, it was fantastic, I could put as much tape on it and there was no risk of damage to decals or paint. so if you're leaving the alclad to the end, I always do, then a few layers of future will ensure your model wont suffer any damage whatsoever, also with so many coats of future, make sure you leave it a few hours between coats and use micromesh on the future as other wise you get the orange peel look and it's damn near impossible to remove if you build a layer of future that goes like that. Also one more thing, you don't need to thin alclad, it's ready to use from the bottle.

OK, I checked my links and in one of the builds, the guy painted engines after, so I was wrong. In any event, I think your advice is wise and based on hard experience, Dre, so I'll paint them last.

Oh no, I did those panels first, thinking that I could paint them, mask everything off and then add the vertical stabs and the underside fins before doing the camo.   Everything was copacetic until I masked them and that's when the tape melted into the paint...

I still haven't figured this sequence out myself, hence the 2-year stall on this bird, so good luck buddy!

Dre, nooooooooooooo! Those look great, especially those panels towards the rear. So shiny! Yeah, don't want to know what "after" looked like. =/

Interesting that you did them last. I've seen two builds online where the builder painted the engines first, then masked them off and painted the airframe without any issues, so I assumed that was the best route. But I was also wondering how the heck the builders didn't ruin the engine finish when removing the tape. Maybe a coat of Future?

In any event, this is THE part of the build I'm dreading the most, and all the stuff we're discussing is why. But I guess I first need to decide whether to paint the engines before or after I do the airframe lol.

(bangs head against wall)

This stuff I learned the hard way on this Flanker two years ago...and I am far from an expert in these matters.

Gloss black or a darker grey ought to be OK for your base for either MM metalizers or Alclads.  Since you gradually build up the metallics, it is up to you.   I put the metallics on too heavy (a combination of MM and Alclad) , so the base color was moot in my case.  Heck, go nuts and use a variety of neutral colors on the different areas and see what happens!

Tamiya tape doesn't do Alclads or MM Metalizers any favors- in fact it melted into the paints for me, even after letting the paint cure for a few weeks before masking.

It seems that the best thing (for me) to do is to work on the engine panels last, after all the other camo painting.  It is a big ole PITA to mask those panels out afterwards, but that should dramatically lessen the chances for errors (knock on wood).

Yes, lacquer thinner for Alclads- I use just a little to thin them out so I don't lay down too much to start with and then blast a larger quantity through the AB to clean it.   I'd also field strip the AB afterwards and detail clean out the remaining gunk so the lacquer thinner doesn't melt the seals.

Among all the issues surrounding Flankers, these engine panels seem to be the Achilles' Heel.   This was my first effort, using Alclad steel on the forward panels and MM Titanium on the middle panels over MM gloss black.   It looked good until I tried to mask this for the rear-most section.

hope this helps! 

(adds all this new information to "alclad.txt" file)

Thanks again, Dean and Dre. Dre, there is good chance I'll make mistakes and I have used MM metalizers quite a bit, but I'm kind of digging the chance to try out Alclad. I'm hoping that because it's a limited area and is a bit open to interpretation in terms of color (as Dean mentioned, no two Flanker engines look the same), I can have fun with it. Then again, I could just end up ruining everything. Hm.

So couple more questions:

1) If I use gloss black as a primer instead of, say, darker gray, would this be a mistake ie, make the finish too dark?

2) How durable is Alclad? Will Tamiya tape pull it up?  I ask because if I do manage to use it successfully, I'll need to mask over the engines when it's time to paint the airframe. I know some MM Metalizers aren't especially durable. Especially the buffing kind, unless you use the sealer (which then dulls the finish, unfortunately).

3) I'm assuming I thin/clean up Alclad using lacquer thinner? I'm also assuming it doesn't need to be thinned much.

Thanks!

I began to strip the paints off my engine panels, but apparently I put them on really well the first time and they're resisting my efforts thus far to come off...   but it is leaving some interesting effects that sadly I can't use on this model.

From what I've read, you can use Alclads over just about any enamel/lacquer gloss paints to achieve a specific metallic color, but gloss black is the 'standard'.  Light greys are popular for aluminum, a darker grey for steel, etc.  It really is up to your imagination (and daring).

If you want to be somewhat safe- you can always use the clear tinted Tamiya paints over whatever metallics to get the heat discoloration.  In theory, these would be easy to remove with Windex so fixes and corrections are possible.  If you plan on making mistakes, then MM metallizers are a better bet as they withstand abuse better than Alclads.

One thing I've learned in my efforts to do these panels is that MM Titanium is far too warm for realism.

You simply airbrush one colour over another until the heated effect looks right, I used the aluminium as a base as its really bright, and then blues and tone it down with steel, and pale burnt metal which is a yellowish silver, also Pale burnt metal if I didn't say it. It's down to your creative abilities which is what makes it so brilliant, though after you have used alclad you'll never use silver paint again. Also a thing I should say, you need to spray light layers really light and build it up gradually, takes no time at all as if you spray a normal coat it will lose the metallic effect and look like ordinary silver.

Added! Thanks.

I forgot steel

Thanks, guys! Colors duly noted, Dean.

Awesome result, techdad. I've used MM metalizers quite a bit, so I'm using this as an excuse to finally try Alclad, but appreciate the input.

I don't know what Alclad colors to use.  So if you are set on using those, stop reading now.

On mine, I used MM Metalizer Aluminum Buff.  Then I used Tamiya weathering eye shadow to do the engines.  While it took a lot of trial and error, I was happy with the result in the end. 

i hope this helps...good luck.

Gloss black is definitely always required for alclad as without it you may as well use an silver paint. I would use aluminium, white aluminium, blue, pale burnt jet exhaust, and the tamiya pigments are excellent for this job, I dont think ive seen any two flankers with engines that had the same discoloured pattern.

Hey, guys:

Well, now that major construction is done, next step is to paint the engines. I'm going to attempt with Alclad paints, which I haven't used before. Probably not a great idea to use a kit/plane I really like for my first try, but... here goes nothing.

SO....

1) Which Alclad colors should I use to get the requisite "stressed" look of Flanker engines? I know Alclad colors come in a variety of metal types, but the only one I know for sure I'll need is transparent blue (for heat/exhaust bluing of the metal).

2) Apparently, making sure the surfaces are prepped to perfection is essential, since Alclad shows every teeny tiny flaw, and gloss black is a good primer. But I'm not sure priming is absolutely necessary in this situation. Thoughts?

Thanks!

PB