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A tale of two P-40B and P-40E -- COMPLETED !!!!!

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  • Member since
    June, 2014
A tale of two P-40B and P-40E -- COMPLETED !!!!!
Posted by BrandonK on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:31 PM

So, I've reached a point in the cold weather where I am nearing paint on my AH-1Z Viper, so I need something to do. I decided it is time to build my Monogram P-40B and why not build my Hasegawa P-40E at the same time. A tandom build if you will.

The Monogram kit will get a full Legend's resin pit, some PE, a rescribe, Squadron canopy, Quickboost exhaust manifolds and Montex masks. I also plan to add the radiator, wheel bays, and cowl flaps open. That should be fun.

The Hasegawa kit will get mostly OOB treatment, with a cockpit PE set and Montex masks.

I will enjoy seeing the major design differences between the two kits and I don't have any P-40's on display and that is just wrong.

I am also aware that the Hasegawa may have wing root issues. I'm aware of it and will deal with it as needed.

'Till I update this again, MERRY X-MAS !!!

BK

On the bench: 2x Monogram 1/48 Kingfishers with cockpits and floats, full kit overhauls each

1/48 Pro Modeler P-47N

1/32 Kitty Hawk OS2U Kingfisher

  • Member since
    February, 2012
  • From: Parma, Ohio
Posted by lawdog114 on Thursday, December 24, 2015 12:34 AM

This should be good Brandon. I'm looking forward to it. With the Hasegawa E, It's not so much the wing roots, those are fine, but all the damn inserts that fit lousy and don't fall on a natural panel lines. Get ready for a lot of sanding and rescribing. Or perhaps you'll have better luck.

 "Can you fly this plane and land it?...Surely you can't be serious....I am serious, and don't call me Shirley"

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    February, 2012
  • From: Parma, Ohio
Posted by lawdog114 on Thursday, December 24, 2015 12:36 AM

Here's mine if you need a quick reference :

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/t/165847.aspx

 

 

 "Can you fly this plane and land it?...Surely you can't be serious....I am serious, and don't call me Shirley"

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    June, 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Thursday, December 24, 2015 10:41 AM

Thanks Joe. I'll definately be refering back to this for the build, especially the painting.

BK

On the bench: 2x Monogram 1/48 Kingfishers with cockpits and floats, full kit overhauls each

1/48 Pro Modeler P-47N

1/32 Kitty Hawk OS2U Kingfisher

  • Member since
    December, 2006
  • From: N. Georgia
Posted by Jester75 on Thursday, December 24, 2015 2:59 PM

Looking forward to this one, er two. Stick out tongue Very ambitious goals on that Monogram kit. Can't wait to see her all dressed up for the ball. I have pulled that E kit of the stash several times here lately wanting to build it.

Eric

 

  • Member since
    September, 2013
Posted by blackdog62 on Thursday, December 24, 2015 5:21 PM

Gota love the p- 40. My all time favorite.

Modern fighter would be the f-16 

Must be a air scoop thing.

  • Member since
    March, 2015
Posted by Toshi on Thursday, December 24, 2015 5:24 PM

Very cool, I'll be keeping an eye out for this build!

Toshi

From: Streetsboro, Ohio

Retired due to work related injury

married

 

On the bench:

Trumpeter 1/32 Corsair with Eduardo Big Ed Set

In the works:

Monogram Pro Modeler 1/48 P-47 Thunderbolt (OOB)

Monogram 1/48 Black Widow 1974 boxing with AM Goodies

  • Member since
    December, 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Friday, December 25, 2015 9:15 AM

Wow Brandon, that is a tale between two cities.  I never built the Hasagawa kit, but have built the Monogram one several times and it really is a blank canvas as far as detail.  I will be following this build as well.

        

  • Member since
    November, 2003
  • From: Newington CT
Posted by tempestjohnny on Friday, December 25, 2015 7:27 PM
I'm pulling up a chair...

 

GAF
  • Member since
    June, 2012
  • From: Longview, TX
Posted by GAF on Friday, December 25, 2015 7:38 PM

Brandon,

Look forward to your techniques and color choices!  I did think that you were going to use one of the earlier boxings of the Monogram P-40s?

I am about to start my own Revell P-40B for the 1941 GB.  I must admit that the plastic reminds me of a vac-u-form molding, it is so thin.  I don't see the flash as a problem so much as I'm afraid of breaking something while removing it!  Surprise

Fit wise, I'm already seeing some things I need to watch out for.  If you get a head start on me, I hope to see what you do to fix them.

I must admit that she would make a perfect AVG bird, as the parts have Chinese markings all over them!  Big Smile

Gary

  • Member since
    June, 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Friday, December 25, 2015 7:43 PM

Well, I started the rescribing today, and yes the plastic is quite thin and rather flimsy. I have one upper wing done and it looks much better. I hope to have all the rescribing done this weekend. I thought the two halves were gonna be trouble, but a flat surface and some sand paper and they cleaned up and line up pretty nice now.

I am planning on doing a late '41 -B Pearl Harbor bird. It doesn't need to be a surviver, just one that represents one of the birds parked there that fateful day. I should have some pics up later this weekend. The -E will be an AVG bird for sure.

BK

On the bench: 2x Monogram 1/48 Kingfishers with cockpits and floats, full kit overhauls each

1/48 Pro Modeler P-47N

1/32 Kitty Hawk OS2U Kingfisher

  • Member since
    June, 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 4:02 PM

Update #1,

Now that I have had some hours, many hours working with the Monogram kit I have uncovered more areas that just have to be addressed. Some of which I hadn't noticed until I went back through bvallot's post on the same kit. I'll cover those as I address them. For now here is what I have done.

I have 95% of the re-scribing done. I really hate doing this as it makes me feel like I am destroying the kit and it just looks horrible until you get primer down. I mostly followed the existing kit raised panel lines and then sanded out all the rivit detail and raised panels. Not that I have anything against raised panels, I don't, but this kit looked and felt like a Hedgehog and was over scale on the rivit detail and I felt it detracts from the kits looks. So, I removed all of it. Now after many many hours of scribing and sanding I think it looks sleeker and more appropiate for the scale.

The next area I began working on was the wheel bays. Thus far I have only filled the lower wing area as I have yet to begin boxing in the bays. That starts tomorrow. While I was working on these I noticed that the gear was very under detailed and was missing supports. So I removed the single kit strut and added two in its place and recycled the kit strut to the side. I then added slots in the wings for the struts to go into in an attempt to simulate the real thing. It looks better now and will paint up nice. I'll add a brake line later.

I also removed the kit landing light, that was a joke. I have made a light similar to my B-17 lights that fits the wing perfectly. I will add that just before I close the wings up. I plan to get the wings, upper and lower assembled before I attach them to the fuselage. I think working with the leading edge and its issues will be easier off the fuselage. I will then turn my attention to the cockpit mods. 'Til then, later.

BK

On the bench: 2x Monogram 1/48 Kingfishers with cockpits and floats, full kit overhauls each

1/48 Pro Modeler P-47N

1/32 Kitty Hawk OS2U Kingfisher

  • Member since
    January, 2015
  • From: Lacey, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 5:01 PM

I've still got this kit in the works and this already is fantastic work. I'm going to watch this with great interest.  :)

- Mike Brindos

Figure Painting Moderator -- Genessis-Models

GAF
  • Member since
    June, 2012
  • From: Longview, TX
Posted by GAF on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 6:34 PM

Ah, Brandon!  You're making me want to do a lot of detail work on my own kit, and that's a sure fired way to lead me into trouble!  No, No, No!  Wink

It really is looking great, sir.

Gary

  • Member since
    June, 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 7:30 PM

Thanks guys, I feel like it looks like Hell until I get it to primer, and then it's like, "ok, that works." Till then I am looking at it and finding more and more to do. This is gonna take longer than planned. But hey, it's what I really like to do anyway.

BK

On the bench: 2x Monogram 1/48 Kingfishers with cockpits and floats, full kit overhauls each

1/48 Pro Modeler P-47N

1/32 Kitty Hawk OS2U Kingfisher

  • Member since
    June, 2013
Posted by bvallot on Thursday, December 31, 2015 2:01 PM

That's the reality of it.  No getting around it. =]  With regards to the raised panel lines and rivets, I personally just gave them a very light sand to knock them down a bit.  The only raised parts that absolutely must be rescribed are over the cowl as those are removable pieces for the engine.  And I suppose the access door behind the pilot on the left side.

Looks like you're off to a good start.  Take your time with this one.  At 1:48, it's damn hard to scratch parts to scale and make them work for you. 

I'm looking forward to seeing how that Legends cockpit measures up to the True Details version.

On the bench:  

Tamiya P-51D-conversion: F6-D William Shomo

Accu Minn P-51A James England

Tamiya F4F-3 Butch O'Hare

  • Member since
    September, 2011
Posted by fightnjoe on Saturday, January 02, 2016 4:50 PM

Looks like a good start Brandon.  Should be an interesting comparison.

 

 

 

Joe

Veterans,

Thank You For Your Sacrifices,

Never To Be Forgotten

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  • Member since
    September, 2013
Posted by blackdog62 on Monday, January 04, 2016 4:58 PM

I'm a complete p-40 fan and this build looks like a good one. You got me thinking about rescribing my revell p-40. I used the same plan to rescribe my revell p-61 a first for me but have yet to put it together.

I personally like the rivets that gos back To my building as a kid. Not all kits had them and I just loved them.

Really like watching your build so talented !

  • Member since
    June, 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 1:08 PM

Ok, so the butchery continues. I have the wheel bays built up as good as they're gonna get. Fitting them to the wings was a huge PITA. I am not totally satisfied with them overall, but they don't look horrible. I guess they are better than nothing there at all. I will work on closing the flaps and adding my landing light and I should be able to close these wings up. They are pretty flimsy and adding the bays did stiffin them up a bit, but closing them will make all the difference. 
I still cringe when I look at what I've done. Hopefully, the primer and paint will hide my errors.

I began by making a test bay out of card stock and them working with it until I had the shape and fit sort of figured out. I then moved on to styrene sheet and made each piece and fit them one at a time until I had the fit close and the shape acceptable. Once this was done I attempted to replicate the indent for the tire in the fuselage side. That was some trial and error and what I ended up with is out of scale but its the best I could figure out how to do.

I basically built these tubs from photos. I didn't reference any other persons build as I just wanted to see what I could come up with. Next time I will just buy a set of tubs for the Trumpeter kit and make them fit. They look better and are more correct, and certainly easier to work with. This was no simple bit of work. I have a few full days in working with these and getting them in. Now that they are there, I can live with the results. I was pretty unsure of this most of the way. The flimsy wings really frustrate you when you are trying to be precise and carefull. I did okay on this part. It's good enough for Govt work anyway.

BK

 

On the bench: 2x Monogram 1/48 Kingfishers with cockpits and floats, full kit overhauls each

1/48 Pro Modeler P-47N

1/32 Kitty Hawk OS2U Kingfisher

  • Member since
    June, 2013
Posted by bvallot on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 1:53 PM

Looks like you got it worked out to me. =] It didn't occur to me to fashion them as a bay one could drop in like an aftermarket part.  That's a clever idea. If I recall, I think I was concerned with stiffening up the wings/wingroot.  That's what led me down the road I went.  The ribbing did a lot to help that and I'd imagine that this bay is operating the same way here.

Are you going to add the gearing that allow the struts to rotate and drop down.  I can tell you now that they will not be visible AT ALL. lol  They're so far up there when it's all done...Bang Head Just take a picture so you can remember what it looked like. =P

On the bench:  

Tamiya P-51D-conversion: F6-D William Shomo

Accu Minn P-51A James England

Tamiya F4F-3 Butch O'Hare

  • Member since
    June, 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 3:55 PM

At this point I am callilng the bays done. I don't intend to add anything else. I had considered the tubing and the one box but I've decided to pick my battles and after nearly 15 hours of work I just don't want to spend any more time there. Thanks for the complement.

BK

On the bench: 2x Monogram 1/48 Kingfishers with cockpits and floats, full kit overhauls each

1/48 Pro Modeler P-47N

1/32 Kitty Hawk OS2U Kingfisher

  • Member since
    February, 2012
  • From: Parma, Ohio
Posted by lawdog114 on Thursday, January 07, 2016 4:23 AM
That "butchery" looks fantastic. I scribed a B-17 and P-61 once. I swore I'd never do that again. Where did you get you hole pumch? I need one of those.

 "Can you fly this plane and land it?...Surely you can't be serious....I am serious, and don't call me Shirley"

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    June, 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Thursday, January 07, 2016 9:13 AM

lawdog114
That "butchery" looks fantastic. I scribed a B-17 and P-61 once. I swore I'd never do that again. Where did you get you hole pumch? I need one of those.
 

Joe, that punch is a wonderful tool. I love it. I got it from Micromark. It was $59.95 at the time. So many uses, it really opened up the scratch build ideas for me.

BK

On the bench: 2x Monogram 1/48 Kingfishers with cockpits and floats, full kit overhauls each

1/48 Pro Modeler P-47N

1/32 Kitty Hawk OS2U Kingfisher

  • Member since
    March, 2015
Posted by bpanzer322 on Thursday, January 07, 2016 11:14 AM
Definitely going to be watching this. I have both of those in the pile to build.
  • Member since
    June, 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Thursday, January 07, 2016 5:25 PM

Ok, well moving on now. I mentioned the flimsy wings and that has become an issue. I'll cover that in a moment.

First, with the wheel bays out of the way I turned my attention to the flaps. I will pose them up because ALL the parked P-40B's I have pictures of are up. The only ones I see down are done so for photos or they are museum pieces. There may be some out there down, but it appears the norm was to have them up. SO, the kit needs some help here.

I began by placing them in the up position and attaching thier pivot points. I played with them until I felt the wing edge gap was acceptable and then glued them down. This is where the flimsy comes into play. At the trailing edge of the wing where it meets the flap the wings sags. Even with the aid of the upper in place the sag remains. I had to solve this to make the wing smooth front to back with no bumps or waves.

I cut think sheet styrene in strips narrow enough to fit on top of the flap and just touch the support inside the wing. I then glued the strip to the flap and let that dry. (the flaps are dead flat to, so that really helps make this work) Once that was dry I then ran a thin strip of Tamiya thin along the back of the new strips and hand held the wing flat to the flap. After a few minutes the wings are now dead flat along the rear of the wing and the flap and trailing edges line up nicely. This trick eliminates the use of any glue along that edge, which would have ruined the look.

Problme two and three: the left wing is wavy, to say the least, from tip to wing root. Even with the upper wing installed the wave remained. AND, the dyhedral is nearly flat on this kit. Now I know we can solve the dyhedral with some tape, glue and the wing roots, but this kit won't let me eliminate it all together in that manner. SO, another solution is in order.

It came to me to use brass tube to make the wing straight, and it then occured to me to also use this method to form the correct angle on the dyhedral. This way when I work with the wing roots later, the angle will already by correct, I'll just need to close the gap. I pland on widening the lower fuselage and filling that rather than the wing roots. It will look better and be easier to do. It won't affect the upper part and shouldn't be apparent when done.

So, I made a 7 in long piece of brass rod and bent it to the correct angle using a technical drawing scaled to my kit. I then placed it in the wing with tape and made sure it would fit and the fuselage would also not be too encombered by its presence. It all fit great. With the rod in place the wave is removed and the angle is correct, all in one move. I epoxied the rod in place. As you can see the angle is now correct and the wave is no longer in the left wing. More updates to come. Thanks for looks guys.

BK

On the bench: 2x Monogram 1/48 Kingfishers with cockpits and floats, full kit overhauls each

1/48 Pro Modeler P-47N

1/32 Kitty Hawk OS2U Kingfisher

  • Member since
    August, 2013
Posted by Jay Jay on Friday, January 08, 2016 8:59 AM

Very clever fixes. TY for sharing this valuable info. I wish i could think of things like this on my own.

 

 

 

 

 

 I'm finally retired. Now time I got, money I don't.

GAF
  • Member since
    June, 2012
  • From: Longview, TX
Posted by GAF on Friday, January 08, 2016 11:51 AM

Very creative solutions for the P-40 wing problem.  I'm looking at the same problem, but was thinking of some thick sheet plastic instead of brass rod.

BTW, are you going to do anything about the fuselage underneath just behind the flaps? I'm thinking of taking a saw to this area, but I'm open to new ideas.  Thanks!  Smile

Gary

  • Member since
    June, 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Friday, January 08, 2016 1:00 PM

GAF
BTW, are you going to do anything about the fuselage underneath just behind the flaps? I'm thinking of taking a saw to this area, but I'm open to new ideas. 

I'm about to tackle two, make that three issues underneath. First, open the cowl flaps, two build and install a radiator along the full length of the cowl, and third fill the gap at the rear cockpit at the flap area which is huge. 

Looking at your image, I see the area you are referring to. The kit just doesn't have that open like that. I'm not sure that is an area I want to tackle. I'll add the slots, but the long opening at the rear may be too much to do, for me anyway.

What I am planning on doing:

1. open flaps, easy peasy

2. build radiator, copy design from Hasegawa kit and fit it the this kit, make the bulk head solid top to bottom at the front of the wings inside the fuselage, then the air deflector on the rear of radiator will meet this and close the opening. The front edge of the wing has a small bit already, I'll just put sheet stock on that and fill the firewall area, just to close it up. This will have to be inside the fuselage first and then dropped down onto the wing.

3. with the flaps closed the gap at the fuselage is about 1/8 in. Ill fill that with sheet stock and that will also push the wing root a tad higher, making a better fit at the wing root. If you look at this area closely, you will see it is not flat but has a peak if you will. It will take filling it with sheet stock either bent up or built like the peak of a roof so it follows the belly's shape. A piece about 3/16 in wide and from side to side with that peak will fill that up nicely.

I also found that with the dyhedral set all I have to do to close the wing roots tight is widen the fuselage at the flap area. I'll leave the cowl set at the kit size as this fits the front of th wing roots great. BUT, the reat has a gap. With the tail also set at the kit size at the rear wheel, you can just open the fuselage at the flaps about >1/8 in and then taper it closed at the rear wheel opening. This closes the wing root gap and is far easier to do than fiddle with the roots themselves.

All the time I spent working on getting the wings just right has paid off as it allows me to keep everything else at the stock kit attachment points. Otherwise I would have had a ton of work in other areas that would have actually been more difficult.

In the photos, the fuselage is just resing there. The gaps close totally when you hold it in place. It's a nearly perfect fit front to back.

On the bench: 2x Monogram 1/48 Kingfishers with cockpits and floats, full kit overhauls each

1/48 Pro Modeler P-47N

1/32 Kitty Hawk OS2U Kingfisher

GAF
  • Member since
    June, 2012
  • From: Longview, TX
Posted by GAF on Friday, January 08, 2016 3:46 PM

Thanks, Brandon!  You're probably taking this further than I want to go.  You'll end up with something to appease the modelling gods. Big Smile

I had never noticed the slots in the bottom of the fuselage until I looked at the 3d model.  I don't think I've ever seen a picture of that section.  That's the area of the drop tank / bomb attachment and it looks like a separate piece.  I was considering using a saw to cut that section out of the lower wing, then using some sheet plastic to form a new piece to go over that area, but now that I think about it, it may be possible to just put a piece over the existing and have it extend up under the cooling flaps.  I'm going to take some measurements on the 3d model and see if that's possible.  I'll let you know if I come up with something.

Thanks again!

Gary

UPDATE:

I've pulled the relavent section of fuselage out of the aircraft model to see what it looks like.  This is it.

It actually curves up to fit over the oil coolers in the forward lower fuselage.  Too complex of a shape to comfortably create out of plastic card.  The hole in the side (about the middle) is where the flap actuator rods come through.

I think what I will attempt is to cut a slot in the bottom of the fuselage where the section ends (tail-ward end) and then see about creating a curved piece to give the illusion of a separate piece.  Not sure if it's worth the trouble.

Anyway, just thought I'd let you know what this area looks like in case you're interested.

 

  • Member since
    June, 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Friday, January 08, 2016 6:39 PM

Gary, I can better see that piece now that you pulled it apart. I plan, and will, make the green area for the air flow control out of the rads, but that back piece would not be worth the effort to form on its own. I'll add the slots and see how your trick works out, otherwise I'll have to live without it until I just can't stand it and lose my mind, and do it anyway.

BK

On the bench: 2x Monogram 1/48 Kingfishers with cockpits and floats, full kit overhauls each

1/48 Pro Modeler P-47N

1/32 Kitty Hawk OS2U Kingfisher

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