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General Question about Plane Colors

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  • Member since
    November 2014
General Question about Plane Colors
Posted by Ahrenisavagabond on Thursday, June 30, 2016 12:12 PM

I just had a question for those of you into WWII aircraft history? Has anyone heard of P-51 Mustangs being painted in Axis colors for spying/ reconnaissance flights? I had an old friend who was former Navy during that time. He was always telling me stories of them doing this. I have always wondered if this was ever documented as true. It might be interesting to see what that would look like. Of course I'm not looking to offend anyone or disgrace/dishonor anything from that time. Just want to know if anyone else had heard similar stories.

  • Member since
    January 2012
  • From: Barrie, Ontario
Posted by Cdn Colin on Thursday, June 30, 2016 12:50 PM

I doubt it for 2 reasons.

Without proper markings, the pilot would be considered a spy and liable to be shot as such.  It's also asking for friendly fire.  Reconnaissance flights relied on surprise, speed, and/or altitude to avoid interception.

But primary resources saying otherwise give me food for thought.

I build 1/48 scale WW2 fighters.

Have fun.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Thursday, June 30, 2016 1:14 PM

There could be captured Allied planes painted in Axis colors,I'm pretty sure there was the opposite.

In fact check this out

https://www.google.com/search?q=captured+p+51+mustang&safe=active&biw=1680&bih=920&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjBq-KurdDNAhUDcD4KHRomA-4Q_AUIBigB 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Thursday, June 30, 2016 2:06 PM

Tojo72

There could be captured Allied planes painted in Axis colors,I'm pretty sure there was the opposite. 

The Luftwaffe had a special group 'Zirkus Rosarius' that was tasked with evaluating captured Allied aircraft and providing training opportunities for German pilots to fly in and against these aircraft.

 

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: 29° 58' N 95° 21' W
Posted by seasick on Thursday, June 30, 2016 2:13 PM

Not in enemy markings, friendly fire would be far to much of a risk. No IFF back then. Friendly fire was a serious problem, for D-day the allies used the invasion stripes on aircraft to counter friendly fire and they were painted on to aircraft that were already marked in friendly colors. 

invasion stripes: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_stripes

A risky enough move would be to paint the aircraft in a color scheme similar to the enemy's with the correct markings. 

Here is a nice potrayal of how it works, notice that even the tower doesn't use its radio:

http://youtu.be/oSNLeC-eMUQ

 

Chasing the ultimate build.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, June 30, 2016 2:53 PM

I have never heard of Allied aircraft being painted in German colours. A couple of guys mentione dthe German unit which flew captured aircaft. At a guess, i would say this has confused things a bit. The Germans did used captured aircraft, such as B-17's, to shadow bomber formations and report back so fighters could intercept.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:40 PM

Bish

I have never heard of Allied aircraft being painted in German colours. A couple of guys mentione dthe German unit which flew captured aircaft. At a guess, i would say this has confused things a bit. The Germans did used captured aircraft, such as B-17's, to shadow bomber formations and report back so fighters could intercept.

 

Bish,check my link,there seem to be quite a few.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, June 30, 2016 3:48 PM

Tojo72
 
Bish

I have never heard of Allied aircraft being painted in German colours. A couple of guys mentione dthe German unit which flew captured aircaft. At a guess, i would say this has confused things a bit. The Germans did used captured aircraft, such as B-17's, to shadow bomber formations and report back so fighters could intercept.

 

 

 

Bish,check my link,there seem to be quite a few.

 

Ye, there was quite a lot. I have that decal set in that link in 72nd and that includes Stangs, Jugs and Mossies. But just about all the major Allied aircraft can be seen in German markings. The Germans seem to have made use of captured equipment to a greater degree than the allies did.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    March 2015
  • From: Close to Chicago
Posted by JohnnyK on Thursday, June 30, 2016 8:16 PM

Tojo72

There could be captured Allied planes painted in Axis colors,I'm pretty sure there was the opposite.

In fact check this out

https://www.google.com/search?q=captured+p+51+mustang&safe=active&biw=1680&bih=920&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjBq-KurdDNAhUDcD4KHRomA-4Q_AUIBigB 

 

YIKES!!! That is realy freaky seeing a bunch of Mustangs painted with German markings. Sends chills up my spine.

Your comments and questions are always welcome.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Friday, July 1, 2016 9:14 AM

seasick

Not in enemy markings, friendly fire would be far to much of a risk. No IFF back then. Friendly fire was a serious problem, for D-day the allies used the invasion stripes on aircraft to counter friendly fire and they were painted on to aircraft that were already marked in friendly colors. 

 

Actually, electronic IFF was developed and used in WW2.  Some pilots turned it off, because they were afraid enemy radars could track it as beacon.   Still, most crews used them and my understanding is they worked pretty well for radar controlled intercepts and such.  But small ground AA units may not have had any access to IFF, and many were trigger happy even if they would have.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    November 2014
Posted by Ahrenisavagabond on Friday, July 1, 2016 10:03 AM

Tojo72

There could be captured Allied planes painted in Axis colors,I'm pretty sure there was the opposite.

In fact check this out

https://www.google.com/search?q=captured+p+51+mustang&safe=active&biw=1680&bih=920&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjBq-KurdDNAhUDcD4KHRomA-4Q_AUIBigB 

 

Oh Wow! That is an amazing find Tojo. Man, these stories always fascinated me since I was a little boy and I wondered if there was any truth to them. I think I'll paint a P-51 to honor my old friend and neighbor that told me all those great stories. 

  • Member since
    November 2014
Posted by Ahrenisavagabond on Friday, July 1, 2016 10:04 AM

Yes, it's certainly mindblowing stuff. 

JohnnyK

 

 
Tojo72

There could be captured Allied planes painted in Axis colors,I'm pretty sure there was the opposite.

In fact check this out

https://www.google.com/search?q=captured+p+51+mustang&safe=active&biw=1680&bih=920&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjBq-KurdDNAhUDcD4KHRomA-4Q_AUIBigB 

 

 

 

YIKES!!! That is realy freaky seeing a bunch of Mustangs painted with German markings. Sends chills up my spine.

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
Posted by modelcrazy on Friday, July 1, 2016 3:25 PM

Most of the German held Alies planes were painted yellow on the underside to avoid friendly fire. I have an old Squadron book "strangers in a Strange Land" which documents the captured craft.

I think anything we captured we just painted in OD and stuck starts all over it.

Steve

Building a kit from your stash is like cutting a head off a Hydra, two more take it's place.

 

 

http://www.spamodeler.com/forum/

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, July 1, 2016 3:49 PM

modelcrazy

Most of the German held Alies planes were painted yellow on the underside to avoid friendly fire. I have an old Squadron book "strangers in a Strange Land" which documents the captured craft.

I think anything we captured we just painted in OD and stuck starts all over it.

 

Most of the stuff we captured was at the end of the war anyway. Most of the airwar in Europe after the BoB was over Europe anyway, so less chance to capture stuff.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

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