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AVG P-40 color scheme

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  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Lafayette, LA
Posted by Melgyver on Sunday, June 18, 2006 11:07 AM
The "teeth" on our Shark Gunships in Nam didn't have the same style, number or shape.  The Crew Chiefs painted the teeth on and eveyone was different.  I imagine the same for the P-40's.  No set pattern and more than one painter!  Just a general shape.  Oh, we asked and received permission from the Flying Tigers to use the famous shark teeth on our UH-1C's.  The only Army Unit to do so and have their blessings other than the direct AF "decendant" Units. 

Clear Left!

Mel

jwb
  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Parkton, NC
Posted by jwb on Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:38 AM
OK. Found this.



Anyone have any others- larger maybe?

LOL. Notice the teeth of the foreground aircraft and the next one in line.....

This aircraft is flown by Charles H. Older, 3rd Pursuit Sqn., AVG, according to the source.

Jon Bius

AgapeModels.com- Modeling with a Higher purpose

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." ~ Jeremiah 29:11

jwb
  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Parkton, NC
Posted by jwb on Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:33 AM
On the teeth patterns- you are right, gulfstreamV. Another thing a few hours of research showed was that the teeth patterns varied a bit too.

I'm thinking that (short of finding a color photo of high quality) if I fade the earth color and add just a hint of reddish tent, that will cover the brown (or green faded to a brownish color), and then fade out the RAF dark green quite a bit, that will cover the upper surfaces.

The lower surfaces I guess will just be a tossup. Maybe I'll see what happens if I mix 1/3 sky, 1/3 gray, and 1/3 azure? LOL

This page has several good articles by R.T. SMith, Disck Rossi and Erik Schilling, as well as others.

And in confused me even more.

Though little is said of the coloring, one article (the one referenced above by Brews), where Erik Shilling writes his feelings about sitting in a restored P-40, he states " When I arrived, there in front of the hangar sat a beautiful P-40C perfect in every detail." The aircraft in the photos there is most definetly  a close cousin of RAF earth. Should be gospel right?

Well, in the forum reference above (in my post), someone identified as Erik Shilling says "

it is illogical for you who have never seen the P-40B, which the Flying Tigers flew, argue with those of us who have either flown or worked on them, because your only source of information in making your decision is wrong. It is obvious that your decision had to have been made by comparing a bunch of faded 60 year old color photgraphs. Since these pictures can be your only source of information, you therefore haven't the vagues idea as to the true camouglage coloring of the Flying Tiger's airplanes.

I challenge those of you who think you are in a better position to dispute the claims Tex,Chuck and I have made concerning the true colors of the AVG's P-40,, and give us your source of information which you based you decision upon when you say we are wrong."

And the color scheme he was referring to was a green on green.

LOL.


Jon Bius

AgapeModels.com- Modeling with a Higher purpose

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." ~ Jeremiah 29:11

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
Posted by Brews on Sunday, June 18, 2006 2:40 AM

I  have a lot of respect for Erik Shilling.

http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/quarters/9485/P-40C.html

  • Member since
    May 2006
Posted by MortarMagnet on Sunday, June 18, 2006 1:49 AM
I think this one is gonna be one of those mysteries lost to time like Roman Legion tunics, what color were they?  Definative findings indicate.... I hope someone can dig up a work order or something to settle this one.  I would have never imagined that this could have become such a hot topic.Smile [:)] I would just guess at the brit sky.  It just seems likely to me... even though I don't have any basis for that.  In the end I think you'll just have to guess.My 2 cents [2c]Smile [:)]
Brian
  • Member since
    October 2005
Posted by gulfstreamV on Sunday, June 18, 2006 12:48 AM
No kiddin' DrewH, there seems to be alot of confusion on what the AVG planes were painted. Talking to some oldtimer that I was related to,(my Dad) there is more want to be P-40 Tigers painted than there ever was the authentic jobs. If I remember right it was close to a Spit scheme, but the paint job didn't make it fly better. The weather dulled it, B/W photos didn't really capture anything but tones of gray. And I've seen more versions of the teeth pattern than a re-run of I Love Lucy.......Cool [8D]
Stay XX Thirsty, My Fellow Modelers.
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Abbotsford, B.C. Canada
Posted by DrewH on Sunday, June 18, 2006 12:31 AM

I'm going to tread lightly.......Whistling [:-^]

Yes they are US equivilans to the British standard, but there is so much debate on the colors used. eg. sky to the british was that light green/gray/whatever it is color, but sky to the US was a light gray. At the time it is speculated that it may have been US navy light gray A/N 602 (?)Confused [%-)] and others say closer to med sea grayConfused [%-)]Confused [%-)]. And so on for the dark earth and green.

Noted that several referances refer to specific colors from the period and they would have been in the US inventory. As the other thread says, they were different too. This has been thrown around for years. This was this color and that was that color.

 I don't have a clue anymore on who, if any, may be right.Banged Head [banghead] There are too many posibilities to make one that acurate. I gave up and used the poly scale paints in the US WWII line. If anyone wants to complain about my choice of paint, I will usher them to the nearest wall and thay can complain to it!Shock [:O]

Hope it helps a bit

Take this plastic and model it!
  • Member since
    October 2005
Posted by gulfstreamV on Saturday, June 17, 2006 10:50 PM
jwb, I looked and read some of that forum thread you posted. Man, is'nt that color question a can of worms.
Stay XX Thirsty, My Fellow Modelers.
  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Westland. MI USA
Posted by mkhoot on Saturday, June 17, 2006 10:42 PM

According to my research they were painted the U.S. equivalents of british dark earth and dark green over sky grey.


http://www.jpsmodell.de/dc/shemes/usaac_avg_e.htm

This is a usefull site for A/C collor schemes link

http://www.jpsmodell.de/dc/luft_e.htm

 

When in doubt just build it. Mark http://www.ipmslivonia.org/ipms/
jwb
  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Parkton, NC
AVG P-40 color scheme
Posted by jwb on Saturday, June 17, 2006 9:29 PM
Can anyone point me to some conclusive documentation on the color schemes the AVG's aircraft were painted in? I've been reading quite a bit about this, and even found some threads on a forum that quote Tex Hill, and has posts from Dick Rossi and Chuck Baisden, who I take were AVG members.

The basic thing I've seen so far is that the upper surfaces were finished in either a two tone green camo (one color of which faded to a reddish tan), or a earth on green camo that was suppsed to be close to RAF standard, but was not an exact match. The undersides, according to various sources, were close to either RAF sky, an azure blue, a gray, or possibly a sky/gray color.

Wow.

Anyway, the discussions I've read and the info is somewhat contradictory, and I haven't found anything that mkaes me believe it's conclusive.

Anyway- any info on color scheme would be appreciated. I know there may not be anyhitng that's irrefutable out there, but I'm hoping something will pop up.

At the very least, I can paint my P-40B (which it actually turns out should be a Tomahawk IIB with some IIA stuff and then some bits not part of either..... or that's what the various reading says) to something resembling one of the AVG birds.

Jon Bius

AgapeModels.com- Modeling with a Higher purpose

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." ~ Jeremiah 29:11

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