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~The Bear Trap GB~ December '09 to August '10

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  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Bridgeview, Illinois
~The Bear Trap GB~ December '09 to August '10
Posted by mg.mikael on Saturday, October 10, 2009 4:47 PM

Some may recognize the metaphor and title, "The Bear Trap," and instantly know what war it refers to. For those left wondering it refers to the Soviet-Afghan War of 1979-1989. A long and bloody war for both sides, that ended up hastening the collapse of the hammer & sickle empire.

As for this GB, The Bear Trap GB, we will start on December 1, 2009 and finish on August 1, 2010 (in other words, eight months.) So still lots of time to get supplies and finish those other "on the bench" builds.

The Bear Trap Rules

  •  All aircraft, armor, artillery, anti-air, helicopters, or missle launchers used in the Soviet-Afghan War by the Soviets, the Mujahideen, or any other belligerants are acceptable builds.(If your wondering what exactly are the acceptable builds, please check the vehicle list below.)
  • AM, PE, and scratch building are welcome and encouraged.
  • Multiple entries are welcome.
  • Crossover builds allowed, but all rules must still be met.
  • Partially started builds are acceptable, but check with me first.
  • Any and all scales.
  • Post lots of pics and have fun!!
  • The Bear Trap Vehicle List

       Aircraft/Helicopters

    • MiG-17
    • MiG-21
    • MiG-23
    • MiG-25
    • Tu-16
    • Tu-22
    • Tu-95
    • An-12
    • An-22
    • An-24
    • An-26
    • An-30
    • An-32
    • Su-7
    • Su-17
    • Su-20
    • Su-22 
    • Su-24
    • Su-25
    • I1-28
    • I1-76
    • Mi-2
    • Mi-4
    • Mi-6
    • Mi-8
    • Mi-17
    • Mi-24
    • Mi-26
    • F-16A

       Armor/Missile Launchers

    • T-54
    • T-55
    • T-62
    • T-72
    • PT-76
    • Chinese Type 59
    • ZIL-135
    • ZSU-23-4 "Shilka"
    • BRDM-2
    • BTR-60
    • BTR-70
    • BTR-80
    • BTR-152
    • BM-21 "Grad"
    • BM-27 "Uragan"
    • GAZ-66
    • GAZ-469
    • BMD-1
    • BMD-2
    • BMP1
    • BMP2
    • 2S-1 "Gvozdika"
    • MTU Bridgelayer
    • MAZ-537
    • ASU-57
    • Ural-4320
    • TOS-1
    • SA-4 "Ganef"

       Artillery/Anti-Air

    • M-30 Howitzer
    • ZPU-2
    • ZPU-4
    • D-1 Howitzer
    • D-30 Howitzer
    • S-60
    • KS-30
    • ZU-23
    • 2B9 Vasilek 82mm automatic mortar

    Badge

    Feel free to claim the badge upon the completion of your build.(re-size according to your needs)

     

    "A good plan executed now is better than a perfect plan next week." - George S. Patton

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    • Member since
      December 2007
    • From: Bridgeview, Illinois
    Posted by mg.mikael on Saturday, October 10, 2009 4:48 PM

    Resource Links:

    Let's face it, the Soviet-Afghan War is one of the more obscure, lesser-known wars. Thus detailed info is a bit harder to find on the subject. So to better help out my fellow "Bear Trappers" here is a list of links that will help suit your modeling needs. Wether it be you want to read about the air tactics, or what lit the fuse on the war, or the politics behind the scenes, or if you want to learn about the butterfly mines & other weapons used by the Soviets or perhaps you just want to see some wicked cool Afghan war pics.

    **If you have a link you'd like to share, please do.**

    Soviet Afghanistan War '79-'89 (great source for pics, also has a few vids)

    The Soviet War in Afghanistan (little history lesson about war and Soviet tactics)

    Tensions in Europe and The Afghanistan War (info on the vehicles used in the war)

    The Air War In Afghanistan (obviously it discusses the air war)

    The Bear Went Over the Mountain (Soviet combat tactics in Afghanistan)

    Art of War (lots of photos of Russians out in the field)

    Military Pictures: Soviet-Afghan War (pictures of everything and anything)

    The Soviet Army, Counterinsurgency and the Afghan War (great source for facts)

    The Limits of Soviet Airpowere (interesting read but more academic)

    Interview of a Soviet SPETsNAZ Vet (first-hand facts from an ex-soldier)

    "A good plan executed now is better than a perfect plan next week." - George S. Patton

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    • Member since
      December 2007
    • From: Bridgeview, Illinois
    Posted by mg.mikael on Saturday, October 10, 2009 4:49 PM

    Draftees:

    mg.mikael  - 1/35 Tamiya T-72M1  *FINISHED* Pics on page 19.

    -Neu-  - 1/72 Italeri Mi-24 "Hind"

                 1/72 Italeri T-62

                 1/72 Ace BMP-1

    Sherman1111 - 1/35 Tank Mania SA-4 "Ganef"

    Coldsteel6d - 1/35 Trumpeter T-62

    armydogdoc - 1/48 Academy Mig 21

    M1 A1 A2 Tanker - 1/35 Tamiya T-72M1

    stikpusher - 1/35 Zvezda BTR-70

    HSteve - 1/72 RoG Su-25 "Frogfoot"

                  1/48 KOPRO Su-25 "Frogfoot"

    mph34 - Su-25

    bondoman - 1/72 Trumpeter BTR-80 *FINISHED* Pics on page 16.

    darson - 1/35 Tamiya T-55A 

    balta1 - 1/48 Revell Mi-24D

    M1Carbine - 1/35 Tamiya T62A *FINISHED* Pics on page 12.

    Got Hinomaru? - 1/72 Hobby Craft MiG-25

    FastEagle1- 1/48 KoPro Su-17M4R

    Scorpiomikey - 1/72 Zvezda Mig-21 PFM  *FINISHED* Pics on page 19.

     

     

     

     

     

    "A good plan executed now is better than a perfect plan next week." - George S. Patton

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    • Member since
      December 2008
    • From: Currently Moscow, Russia
    Posted by Coldsteel6d on Saturday, October 10, 2009 6:49 PM

    I would like to join in on this one. Have never participated in a GB before but i live for modern armor so this is right up my alley. By the start date I will have one of the new Trumpeter T-62's ready to start. If a bunch of other guys happen to have T-62's I might have a T-72 laying around that I can build just to be different. 

     

    I would consider myself an intermediate builder. Nothing I have would win a medal at any of the major contests so I would definantley be getting more out of this then I would be giving as far as help and advice goes. 

     

    So what all do I have to do to join you guys in this great adventure?

    • Member since
      December 2007
    • From: Bridgeview, Illinois
    Posted by mg.mikael on Saturday, October 10, 2009 7:20 PM
     Coldsteel6d wrote:

    I would like to join in on this one. Have never participated in a GB before but i live for modern armor so this is right up my alley. By the start date I will have one of the new Trumpeter T-62's ready to start. If a bunch of other guys happen to have T-62's I might have a T-72 laying around that I can build just to be different. 

     

    I would consider myself an intermediate builder. Nothing I have would win a medal at any of the major contests so I would definantley be getting more out of this then I would be giving as far as help and advice goes. 

     

    So what all do I have to do to join you guys in this great adventure?

    Great to have you aboard, Coldsteel6d!! As for joining, you just have to commit yourself to this GB. That means waiting untill December 1st to start your build and posting a WIP of your build. Other then that there isn't much to it, just remember to post pics and ask questions if you have them.Wink [;)] I'll add you to the list, when you know what you be building for sure just let me know.

    "A good plan executed now is better than a perfect plan next week." - George S. Patton

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    • Member since
      June 2006
    • From: Sunny Califorina
    Posted by Sherman1111 on Sunday, October 11, 2009 2:10 PM
    Ok put me down for  a SA-4
    • Member since
      December 2007
    • From: Bridgeview, Illinois
    Posted by mg.mikael on Sunday, October 11, 2009 3:21 PM

     Sherman1111 wrote:
    Ok put me down for  a SA-4

    Great!Big Smile [:D] Just let me know who makes it and what scale.

    "A good plan executed now is better than a perfect plan next week." - George S. Patton

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    • Member since
      June 2006
    • From: Sunny Califorina
    Posted by Sherman1111 on Sunday, October 11, 2009 4:24 PM

    Sa-4

    1/35 scale

    Tank Mania

    • Member since
      December 2007
    • From: Bridgeview, Illinois
    Posted by mg.mikael on Sunday, October 11, 2009 6:28 PM
    Thanks for gettin' back to me so soon.

    "A good plan executed now is better than a perfect plan next week." - George S. Patton

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    • Member since
      March 2004
    • From: Camp Couch Colorado
    Posted by armydogdoc on Sunday, October 11, 2009 6:51 PM
    Ive got academy's 1/48th scale mig 21, gonna do her up in the afghan markings like the one in the pic I posted on the last thread.  Is it OK to match that photo and leave here stripped and abanded?
    Ron "One weekend a month my$1***$2quot;
    • Member since
      December 2007
    • From: Bridgeview, Illinois
    Posted by mg.mikael on Sunday, October 11, 2009 7:32 PM

     armydogdoc wrote:
    Ive got academy's 1/48th scale mig 21, gonna do her up in the afghan markings like the one in the pic I posted on the last thread.  Is it OK to match that photo and leave here stripped and abanded?

    I have no problem with that, so by all means go for it!! Should make for quite the unique build.Thumbs Up [tup]

    "A good plan executed now is better than a perfect plan next week." - George S. Patton

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    • Member since
      December 2007
    • From: Bridgeview, Illinois
    Posted by mg.mikael on Monday, October 12, 2009 4:33 PM
    For those wondering what I was gonna do with that reserved post, well there you go it's being used for something.(go look by first postWink [;)]) It's an area for everyone to share any sort or resource links they have on the Soviet-Afghan War, so if you have a link please share. Enjoy.

    "A good plan executed now is better than a perfect plan next week." - George S. Patton

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    • Member since
      August 2006
    • From: Amherst, MA
    Posted by M1 A1 A2 Tanker on Monday, October 12, 2009 5:19 PM

    While I have 2 other GB's I'm in and then another one I'm running (Soviet Union GB), I'm of course a glutten for punishment and love Russian stuff.

    So how about Tamiya 1/35 T-72M?

    Don't worry I won't cross it over with the Soviet GB, I have plenty other Ruskie kits waiting for that one.  Big Smile [:D]

     

    See ya

     

    Scott

     

     

     

     

    “Computers are like Old Testament gods; lots of rules and no mercy.”  ~ Joseph Campbell

     

     

    • Member since
      May 2009
    Posted by -Neu- on Monday, October 12, 2009 5:20 PM
    Hi guys,

    As Mg said this isn't the most well known war, but its one of the most fascinating. You had an army that by all accounts was among the most proficient in war fighting in history; after the Brezhnev reforms of the 1970s, the Soviet military had all the weapons it could ever want and a new doctrine to utilize them to their fullest. On top of that it had crushed several other rebellions in client states successfully; Afghanistan, basically a developing nation, should have been no different.

    Afghanistan in 1978 was utterly different from what it is today. It had a functioning government, an operating economy, and decent military apparatus. It was probably the most stable the country had been since the 11th century. Yet within a year of the invasion, hundreds of bands started to emerge across the country. By 1988 there were approximately 6,000 mujahideen commanders prosecuting the war. Most never had any formal military training, but fought based on adherence to the Pushtunwali (the tribal code), some more radical interpretations of Islam, or a mixture of both.

    Anyway I won't give an exhaustive list of references but I will recommend Col. Lester Grau's excellent book The bear went over the mountain. It gives a series of Vignettes that show the application (or misapplication) of soviet military hardware. It shows how the very conventional tactics of the bear, which might have overwhelmed NATO in Europe, was utterly useless against the plucky mujahideen, who excelled at fighting on their terms.


    As for the models, (because lets be honest, thats why we;re here), I'll be starting with an Mi-24; the most feared of the soviet arsenal. In addition to the Hind I think I'll try my hand at some 1/72 russian combat vehicles, maybe a BTR-60, BMP-2 or something that I can find at a reasonable price. If not then I'll build it in 1/35.
    Weekend Madness GB tag
    • Member since
      December 2007
    • From: Bridgeview, Illinois
    Posted by mg.mikael on Monday, October 12, 2009 7:28 PM

    Sounds good, M1 A1 A2 Tanker, I'll sign you up. It's also great to see someone join up with a tank finally.Wink [;)]

    -Neu-, you don't mind if I add that link to the Resources post do you?

    "A good plan executed now is better than a perfect plan next week." - George S. Patton

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    • Member since
      July 2004
    • From: Sonora Desert
    Posted by stikpusher on Monday, October 12, 2009 7:34 PM
    Put me down for Zvezda's 1/35 BTR-70

     

    F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

    U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

    N is for NO SURVIVORS...

           - Plankton

    LSM

     

    • Member since
      May 2009
    Posted by -Neu- on Monday, October 12, 2009 8:08 PM
     mg.mikael wrote:

    -Neu-, you don't mind if I add that link to the Resources post do you?



    Nope not at all.
    Weekend Madness GB tag
    • Member since
      September 2009
    • From: Colorado
    Posted by HSteve on Monday, October 12, 2009 8:46 PM

     

    I'm in for a RoG 1/72 SU-25 Frogfoot at least - This will be my 2nd attempt at a build in 10 yrs, Should be fun building w/ you fine folks...

    While I'm shopping, I'll probably find at least one other kit to throw in the mix...Cool [8D]

     

    " I'm the navigator. I have a right to know where I'm going. "

    - Don Eiseli,  Astronaut, Apollo 7

     

    • Member since
      December 2007
    • From: Bridgeview, Illinois
    Posted by mg.mikael on Monday, October 12, 2009 9:27 PM

    stikpusher - Great! Can't wait to see that armored car.Thumbs Up [tup]

    -Neu-  Okay, I just added the link.

    HSteve- Great to have you aboard! By the way, I'm sure your build will turn out great, even if it is your 2nd in 10 years.Wink [;)]

    "A good plan executed now is better than a perfect plan next week." - George S. Patton

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    • Member since
      December 2008
    • From: Currently Moscow, Russia
    Posted by Coldsteel6d on Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:17 AM
    Put me in for a Trumpeter T-62 1-35 scale.
    • Member since
      December 2007
    • From: Bridgeview, Illinois
    Posted by mg.mikael on Tuesday, October 13, 2009 8:15 AM

    Great to have you aboard for your first ever GB, Coldsteel6d!! Can't wait to see how that new kit with all the buzz, lives up to it. Just remember no starting unitll December 1st.Wink [;)]

    "A good plan executed now is better than a perfect plan next week." - George S. Patton

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    • Member since
      July 2009
    • From: between the links
    Posted by trakpin on Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:44 PM
    may not be able to get in on this. the trump T62 i intend on working up would be one of the early versions which likely wouldn't've been in use in this time period

    SI VIS PACEM, PAILA BELLUM

    • Member since
      May 2009
    Posted by -Neu- on Thursday, October 15, 2009 4:57 PM
    So as an impulse buy I picked up a 1/72 Revell T-72M1... only to find out;
    #1 the M1 was more of a export version than what the Soviet armies use .
    #2 T-72 use in Afghanistan is disputed and if it was there, it was for a very short period of time.

    So here are my questions. Does anybody have any information on this and or photos. Also what would I need to modify on this T-72 to get it looking more like a soviet version?

    Weekend Madness GB tag
    • Member since
      July 2004
    • From: Sonora Desert
    Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, October 15, 2009 5:57 PM
    The Soviets used many versions of the T-72 during the period of the Afghanistan War. Versions in sevice thru that time included T-72A, T-72B, T-72 G/M, T-72M1 and T-72M2. The first variant was a comparitively small production run. The latter two, were the newest in service and more likely to be sent to an area facing NATO. The G/M was primarily for export and/or built in sattelite countries such as Czechoslovakia or Poland (G was non Soviet built, M was Soviet built). The do not have quite as heavy of frontal turret armor as the later M1 and M2 variants. Also there are a differeant number of splash strips on the glacis plate in front of the drivers hatch as opposed to later variants. The T-72B had an optical stereoscopic rangefinder as oppsed to the laser rangerfinder used on the G/M and later variants. Early G/M's will have "gill" armor over the frontal suspension and no smoke grenade launchers. There are other detail differences in each variant as well.

     

    F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

    U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

    N is for NO SURVIVORS...

           - Plankton

    LSM

     

    • Member since
      May 2009
    Posted by -Neu- on Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:27 PM
    Thanks Stikpusher, I hope you don't mind if I ask a few more questions. Reading the accounts and looking at the service dates, it seem to me that an early B version that might have been the most likely to see temporary service. So, considering that I've got to mod a M1 to a B. Reading this review its actually a G turret, and I guess Its got to make it look like this B. In addition to the range finder, is the shape completely different as well? Do you think its possible to modify the turret without a massive amount of work? Or might it be more prudent to buy a T-62s (the most common type in Afghanistan) and just build that instead, while building this straight up?
    Weekend Madness GB tag
    • Member since
      July 2004
    • From: Sonora Desert
    Posted by stikpusher on Friday, October 16, 2009 3:22 PM
    OK, now you are running in to one of the great relabeling issues. At some point waht was known as the T-72M2 (aka "Super Dolly Parton") was relabled T-72B. The one in your link is T-72M2/72B. I will see if I can fnd you some pics of the old style B. Duuring original production the had no smoke mortars and a small handrail on the front of the turret, left and right of the main gun As they were rebuilt/overhauled, the rail was removed and handrail added. Also hull "gill" armor removed and track shroud/skirt style armor added. Dont use that pic as your guide. There are two prime differences between a B and G/M/M1 turret: 1) heavier armor on the frontal arc, 2) the optical rangefinder port in front of the commanders hatch.

     

    F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

    U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

    N is for NO SURVIVORS...

           - Plankton

    LSM

     

    • Member since
      July 2004
    • From: Sonora Desert
    Posted by stikpusher on Friday, October 16, 2009 3:46 PM

    I found these pics to help illustrate the differences

    This is an early production T-72B with fold out gill armor installed and deployed. Note the optical port in front of the commanders hatchand the handrails on the front of the turret. Also compare the slope of the frontal turret armor to later variants.

    Another early T-72B in parade order. No gill or skirt armor over the suspension.

    A T-72G/M. No smoke mortars, gill/skirt armor or handrails. Note no optical port in front of the commanders hatch

    An early T-72 G/M in front with a later T-72M1 the background. Notice the difference in frontal turret armor, smoke grenade launchers, track skirt armor, and fewer slash strips on teh glacis in front of the drivers hatch.

    And a late T-72G/M with smoke mortars but no track shrouds.

     

     

     

     

     

    F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

    U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

    N is for NO SURVIVORS...

           - Plankton

    LSM

     

    • Member since
      May 2009
    Posted by -Neu- on Friday, October 16, 2009 5:13 PM
    Thank you very much Stik... It definitely gives me a better idea about what I need to do.

    #1 Side gill armor: I can delete this completely, so that alleviates that problem.
    #2 Glacis slashes: Add an extra one made from styrene. From the other site I linked suggests the hull is closer in detail to a soviet version anyway.
    #3 Added Frontal armour: The real problem as this requires a major addition of putty as well as moving the gun assembly forward. I'm not the keenest on doing an entire mod of this.
    #4 Handrails: easy as pie.
    #5 Optical sight: Given the need to alter the shape of the turret, this one won't be that tough.

    Again, thank you for the assistance Stik. Its well within my skill level to do, I'm just not sure if its worth the effort as I'll have to use alot of poly putty to get the shape I want.
    Weekend Madness GB tag
    • Member since
      July 2004
    • From: Sonora Desert
    Posted by stikpusher on Friday, October 16, 2009 5:54 PM
    The splash strips are easy, four on the older variants, three on the later. If you are backdating the turret, you need to remove armor, so you would  sand it to match the earlier contours. No adding needed. I will check around to see if I have some, or can find some, comparative overhead shots for you.

     

    F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

    U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

    N is for NO SURVIVORS...

           - Plankton

    LSM

     

    • Member since
      March 2007
    • From: Carmel, CA
    Posted by bondoman on Saturday, October 17, 2009 3:43 AM

    Mg Mi- excellent GB. Might I recommend to you all one of the best a/c models out there; the Roden 1/72 an-12.

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