The Official F-4 Phantom II Group Build 2011

I have my kit, I'm just waiting for some paint, the new airbrush, a hose for said airbrush, and some more CA debonder just in case :).  Oh yeh, the AM decals I ordered.  Hopefully they are more accurate than the Hasegawa stock ones.  They have the wrong reg numbers for 41 sqn.  Found a ton of images for the RAF squadrons.  Also the more I look, the more I am convinced that the RAF birds air intakes were not all white inside.  Some look gray, some look black, some look blue and some look white.  The problem is that most of the shots at the right angle and lighting have the darn intake covers on...  I saw some marking I like better than 41 sqn.  I don't remember but I hope the new decals have some for 56 sqn.  I love the phoenix on the tail.

Rich

TB, I finally have my kit, Testors 1/48 F-4F, Luftwaffe markings. Will be starting as soon as I clear the bench.

Hi Everyone,

I found this link that has a huge amount of pictures of the F-4.  Some are very colorful.

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/lofiversion/index.php?t132477-0.html 

Ken

Rex -- to answer your other question, I picked up Ka-9 on eBay. I have about ten of the Ka series kits at this time, I just keep my eyes open and spot bargains when they come along.

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Thanks for posting therse amaizing research photos, guys! Sparrow, I photographed that RAF bird at Hendon about four years ago, they must have had the lights turned up a bit for that shot as the museum is kept quite softly-lit. I had trouble with exposure but got some good flash shots into the cockpit.

Rex -- the Fujimi RF-4B/E kit has a copyright date of 1997 on the plans, but that's the date of the original single edition, and there's no date on the decals or box. My impression is that this is a later boxing with better quality decals, though not Cartograph by any means. The decal sheet says "Printed in Japan," and carries the Fujimi logo. It's way better than the decals in their standard F-4J, that's for sure.

Berny -- you're tech tips are always invaluable!

I made a start on the RF-4E last night, wings and tanks, as always with a Fujimi unless you start with paint!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

PS: We're still running faster than a page a day, if this momentum keeps up we'll have over 400 pages by the end of the year!

What you can see in the second shot of the operational aircraft looks like an even darker gray.  I sent an email to the RAF Museum and Historical society asking if they know a resource to get the official info on it.

Thanks for the reply guys.  Just illustrates that you can't trust museums 100% of the time.

Sparrowhyperion

Hmmm...  I just got done parousing at the RAF museum site.  The couple of images there looked like it was a medium to light gray, not bright like white.  It was darker than the outside main scheme which was a light gray.

Here is the best one.

Then we have these.

The one above is the one I will be doing probably, it's the 41sqn. version without the boxy vertical stabilizer tip.

And lastly I have a shot of the massive Spey 168 engine.

See what I mean?

 

Rich

In that top picture it looks like the Vari Ramp is partially closed.  If I am seeing it correclty, you can see where it hinges.  Pretty cool to see how it worked.

Ken

file:///C:/Users/The%20Mike/Desktop/pics/Breakdown.jpg

This is the parts breakdown for my RoG 1/72 F-4F.  Have no idea why it's molded in two colors.

Hmmm...  I just got done parousing at the RAF museum site.  The couple of images there looked like it was a medium to light gray, not bright like white.  It was darker than the outside main scheme which was a light gray.

Here is the best one.

Then we have these.

The one above is the one I will be doing probably, it's the 41sqn. version without the boxy vertical stabilizer tip.

And lastly I have a shot of the massive Spey 168 engine.

See what I mean?

Rich

sorry about the quality, I just "grabbed the cam and shot this"

no matter if they are "purple F-4EJ's" or "Brit FG. 1's in RAF service",,they follow this convention

well, except for the inevitable one-off, lol

Rex

Sorry Sparrow, my reference was more for Ish47guy...I have no idea about the RAF.

oddmanrush

Check out this pic HERE. You can see that there is some white visible just inside the intake opening. Hope that helps.

I see it but that's a USAF bird.  I was asking about the RAF (British K/M FGR.2) birds.  Thanks for the link though.

Mike, goooodd choices,,,,,but, I am a little bit biased, lol

a question about the Fujimi kit,,,,,,I have some of the "modern" kits from them, and they all have better decals than the older releases,,,,,,does that Fujimi decal sheet say who printed them?,,,,,,I ask because it's a given that I am going to get more Fujimi Phantoms,,,,,,,and if all the new releases have the "improved" decals I'll only hunt for them

so far, the F-4B/N "new kit" and the updated releases of the F-4K and F-4M have "new and better" decals in them,,,,,be nice to know if there was a running change

where did you find  a Ka-9 kit?,,,,,,,that is a very cool find in these days

thanks in advance

Rex

disregard the decal part, please, I did a "stash dive",,,,,,,the only one I have with Cartograf decals is the VF-154 F-4B kit,,,,,,the rest of my "new releases" have the same decals as before, but, they just look "like better printing" by Fujimi

Check out this pic HERE. You can see that there is some white visible just inside the intake opening. Hope that helps.

Sparrowhyperion

Just a quick question.  Do the RAF Phantoms also have white intake tunnels?  I can't find an image where it shows them clearly.

Yes

Ish47guy

Thanks for the kudos on the intakes.  I do need to dirty them up a bit.  Almost all of the ones I've seen in person have a dirty white-ish-tan color to them

What kind of digicam did you buy?

Got an intake question for you too, Berny.  This is an F-4C at the Cavanaugh Flight Museum in Dallas. Is that the normal way the intakes were painted on the SEA scheme, with the green/ white demarcation line that far up the intake? 

 

No, that wasn't the normal way they were painted.  Early SEA camo, they were painted up to the lip with only about two inches extending back into the intakes.  When aircraft were painted in the gray over white and were repainted into the SEA camo in the field, it did not extend at all inside the intakes, stopping right at the lip of the intake.  After the SEA wraparound started to appear the paint extended about six inches into the intake.  That was the way it remained for all paint versions. 

If you look at the picture you will also see where the rear part of Vari Ramp is also painted green.  That is wrong, as the Vari Ramp was always painted gloss white.

I got a Canon EOS Rebel T1i.  I got it because of the 55 MM zoom lens.  I still haven't learned all of the features yet. 

Just a quick question.  Do the RAF Phantoms also have white intake tunnels?  I can't find an image where it shows them clearly.

Thanks for the kudos on the intakes.  I do need to dirty them up a bit.  Almost all of the ones I've seen in person have a dirty white-ish-tan color to them

What kind of digicam did you buy?

Got an intake question for you too, Berny.  This is an F-4C at the Cavanaugh Flight Museum in Dallas. Is that the normal way the intakes were painted on the SEA scheme, with the green/ white demarcation line that far up the intake? 

I got a new digital camera yesterday.  As soon as I figure out how to turn it on, I'll post some pictures.  

Son Of Medicine Man

Thunderbolt379:

ish47guy -- Well! So those are "Seamless Suckers"... I was going to ask how you used them but that set of pics is as good as a tute! I'm tempted -- nothing lets down a Phantom model more readily than blank, shallow intakes, but you get used to them in a 'grin and bear it' sense, and just don't look into them. As the replacement parts are white resin, can you get away without trying to paint inside them???

Cheers, Mike/TB379

 

From the description by the vendor they are molded with white resin to eliminate the need to paint inside them.  So from that I am assuming that they are supposed to be white on the inside.  But I am by no means an expert on Phantoms, so someone else with that knowledge would have to confirm.

Ken

The intakes were painted with an epoxy based gloss white paint.  However those big J-79 bug suckers would take anything down the intakes that wasn't glued down.  Over time the intakes would would get very dirty and discolored from all the insects (and an occasional small bird) going down the intake.  Start with gloss white, dirty them up and you can't be wrong.

OBTW, very nice work on the intakes.  First rate job.   

"Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinkin' badges!"

Sorry....I couldn't resist adding that.....

Okay, at long last, I can reveal the plan (yes, I've made my mind up what I'm going to build!)

Besides completing the Fujimi F-4J I began for Rhinomania 1, which will be further down the track, I've decided to tackle a back to back 1:72nd scale build, subjects which are oddly conjoined...

Hasegawa's RF-4B is a beauty and should build very nicely indeed, but I rather fancy some more spectacular markings, and that's where the other kit comes in...

This is one of Fujimi's double offerings, not two kits in the box but all the parts to make one of two versions, in this case the -B or -E photobirds, plus two sets of plans and two sheets of decals... I really like the VMFP-3 Bicentennial scheme and for once Fujimi printed the decals very nicely, or so they look on the sheet. If I swap the decals to the Hasegawa kit I can build the Fujimi as the RF-4E, and use the other decal sheet which features the Norm 72 scheme that we've been thrashing out this week.

I can't wait to get to that splinter camo and see if I can get the acrylics to play the game all the way through to the topcoat, so the German bird should be first out of the traps, then I'll follow with the Hasegawa in classic grey and white for 1976 and paint the VMFA-232 F-4J at the same time.

That's the plan as it stands, now let's see what fate makes of it!

Cheers, Mike/TB379. (Oh yes, and I've updated page 1 for myself!)

Thunderbolt379

Interesting technique, there, Mobius -- painting before assembly! I'm watching with interest for assembly glitches, as this is one I'll be tackling in due course too.

I guess I'd better get my butt in gear and get some badges ready -- you'll be needing one by the weekend!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

i am always so much happier with results when i take the time to paint before hand, and it actually allows for faster assembly ive found as well, but this could just be because i am forced to hand paint for the time being rather then use an air brush, but theres really little difference once ive perfected my technique with it, and after 40 models i should hope i have. also any little spots from spurs are very easily covered up.

and thats just perfected with painting by hand i am a long way off from making perfect models.

Interesting technique, there, Mobius -- painting before assembly! I'm watching with interest for assembly glitches, as this is one I'll be tackling in due course too.

I guess I'd better get my butt in gear and get some badges ready -- you'll be needing one by the weekend!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

well it seems like i will be finishing my Phantom in a few days probably by wednesday, working with my models is the only positive about not working at the moment.

why do manufactures insist on using such Odd colours for their plastics. like really...green? haha

for all the detail ive put into the cockpit, you really dont get to appreciate much, at least i know its there

my least favourite part about the phantom is getting the elevators to 48 degrees, and wing tips to 8

why were more phantoms just painted flat black it makes it look even more menacing, which i didnt think was possible.

also a question for anyone whos done one of these revell kits, has anyone had difficulty attaching the nose section to the rest of the fuselage? i had to cut away a large portion of the back end to get it too fit properly, and i was curious if this was a common molding issue theyve had.

I've been following the dialogue on paint schemes and pylon shapes. All I can say is Wow! I don't remember reading any of this in the "Detail and Scale" books! I thought I knew a couple of things, but the more I read, the more I realize what little I know. Thanks for sharing, ya'll.

A little update; I filled in the recesses of the inboard flaps and will recreate lines later. I'm almost done with the wings and am about ready to mate it with the fuselage. I didn't realize how long it had been since I've used my tube of Green Putty until I tried to use it to reprofile the nose. It's hardened to a play-doh like consistency; practically useless.

Guess I'll go now and watch it snow. Ah, to be in Puerto Rico right now!

Glenn

Ish,

Those intakes look well worth the price of admission. Excellent job on them!

Glenn

As far as I know, & I've been a Phantom Phanatic for a real long time, all F-4 intakes are white.

The intake trunks are cast in white resin, BUT the splitter plates are cast in a grey resin, & you have to paint the portion of the splitter plates that form the inboard wall of the intake white anyway.

I've the intakes a coat of white paint to match the white painted portion of the splitter plate.  I only gave the splitter one coat so far, & there is a difference in shade between the plate & intake trunking.

My favorite characteristic about these intakes is that they have the proper scale length from the intake lip to the compressor faces.  Its a pet peeve of mine when modelers use those intakes that have the compressor face RIGHT THERE in the intake, like right behind the rear cockpit.  The compressor faces on the real deal start almost at the mid-point of the fuselage.

Thunderbolt379

ish47guy -- Well! So those are "Seamless Suckers"... I was going to ask how you used them but that set of pics is as good as a tute! I'm tempted -- nothing lets down a Phantom model more readily than blank, shallow intakes, but you get used to them in a 'grin and bear it' sense, and just don't look into them. As the replacement parts are white resin, can you get away without trying to paint inside them???

Cheers, Mike/TB379

From the description by the vendor they are molded with white resin to eliminate the need to paint inside them.  So from that I am assuming that they are supposed to be white on the inside.  But I am by no means an expert on Phantoms, so someone else with that knowledge would have to confirm.

Ken