OFFICAL NATURAL METAL FINISH GB V (2013-2014)

Valkyrie: I haven't used Future over NMF, but have read other's complaints about it.  That said, I have seen some great looking work done using Future over Alclad as an undercoat for the decals, and then finished with a lighter sheen coat.  It can be very hard to gauge clear finishes from photos.

Seabe: Unfortunately, I have not attempted to achieve a chrome finish on any of my builds, so do have the experience to guide you.  My expectation is that it will be hard to maintain a truly metallic chrome appearance with any kind of clear coat, but if anything would be successful, it would be something very glossy like the Aqua gloss.  Sorry I can't be more help.

Once again, I would recommend that both of you try the combination on some scrap plastic beforehand.  I know that doesn't eliminate the hassle of having to procure a hard-to-get bottle, but acceptable outcomes are in the eye of the beholder.  

Can you maybe help an auto guy out here - seems you are on the exact topic I was looking for when I dropped into this thread!

I have done some experiments on various chromes available locally. I also have a bottle of Alclad chrome, which I haven't tried yet. But the moment I clear them for protection (and I can only presume Alclad will be even more so!) they seem to "dissolve" into the clear and become either a silver or even just grey colour. Being from South Africa, I cannot get my hands on Alclad Aqua gloss easily, but I have now found one possible supplier.

So - how do you guys clearcoat chrome? I've heard Aqua gloss is a good bet, but before I go that way... It does not have to remain completely mirror-like, a bit of dulling is fine. It is for the McLaren F1 cars of late, just for background. So it has to be clearcoated - still some decalling to be done on the chrome as well.

Not to butt into the thread, but would using Future floor wax (forget it's current name, Pledge....) have the same basic affect as the clear coat?

Tug's got it right.  The clear coat does eliminate the subtle differences in reflection (but not color) that the different Alclad shades contribute.  I wouldn't say it looks non-metallic, but it does look more uniform. 

If you are worried about it, prep some scrap plastic with the various Alclad shades you use and test the clear coat.  You will still be out the money for the bottle, but at least you'll know if you object to the effect prior to spraying your model.

Clemens, I have not done a head to head with the Alclad Gloss Klear Kote and the Aqua Gloss, but the AG gets a nice finish for me.  Combined with the lack of fumes and easy cleanup, and I much prefer it.  I'd love to have the Matte in an Aqua version.

Theuns - If by 'depth' you mean does it remove the variation in light reflection that a build steadily produces then yes in all probability it will. Any clear coat whether full matt or through to high gloss will provide a uniform light reflective surface - matt more so. I'm not sure if this would be so noticeable on 1/72 but it is on 1/48 and larger.

Clemens - try out the Vallejo 'satin'. I found it very easy to spray (though you need to keep on top of cleaning the airbrush) It's inexpensive and produces a very nice finish only just on the shiny side of matt if you know what I mean and one which will take a whitespirit/oil wash should you want too.

I perhaps should have added that I would still go over the whole model with Micro Mesh 6000 and water - well I did on the Crusader which is the only time I've used a varnish.

Tug

Theuns: It will probably take away a wee bit of the depth, but Alclad's gloss coats are incredibly clear and you only need a very thin layer on top, so I don't think it's noticeable.

Aqua Gloss is Alclads' only acrylic clear coat. I have a bottle of that stuff, but I didn't use it yet. I don't think it's as nice as the normal Gloss, but you can apply oil washes on top of it.

Blue: I have te give that matte clear a try. I don't like the flat clear at all for aircraft models. It just looks too dull to me.

OK, that clears it up allot (excuse the pun!)

I mainly do airframe allu and pollished allu planes.

If a gloss coat is put over the pollished allu, does it not take away some of the "depth" look oned gets from it?

This "aqua gloss" you guys are talking about, is it also from alclad? I have been using future but want to start looking for a better clearcoat for painted models (enamel) before decals.

Theuns

Theuns,

The "Light Sheen" is a step below full glossy in the Alclad system.  To my eye, it looks about right for a metal finish that is neither air show polished, nor oxidized and beat to hell.  It does not look like a full gloss coat, and will dull down a polished aluminum look if that is what you are going for.  Similarly, "Matte" is a step above their dullest coating, "Flat", and meets my needs for a dull coat.  

If you were really looking for a specific look between the two extremes, you could get a bottle of the Gloss, and a bottle of the Flat, and get the precise amount of shine by changing the ratio of the two in your airbrush cup.  From what I can tell, they all use the same lacquer, and vary only by the amount of dulling medium included in the bottle.  (Obviously I am not talking about the Aqua Gloss here, which is a totally different beast.)  For a pure gloss coat... use the Aqua Gloss and don't look back.

You can see a shot of my P-51 on the opening page of this GB, and there is a picture of the NMF P-47 I did on page 27.  Both are finished with Light Sheen.  Like I said before, I was nervous about using it on the Jug, but was happy with how it came out.

Hope that helps.

The tamiya clear colors is a cool idea, I did not even think of that! You can buy 5 colors for the price of one alclad.

I will give it a go. thanx.

Did the F-104C NMF also have the staining on the rear fuse like on the F100 NMF? or was it just a slightly darker pannel?

Theuns

Hi again - The one thing I forgot to say was - it's a good practice to always do the underneath first. That way if there is a hitch it's out of sight for the most part.

Tug

Hi Theuns 'et al'

Apologies for not responding to your request earlier but I had hoped I could do it 'with pics' as I tackled the aft end on my build. Unfortunately I've not been able to get there as yet!

I've had a go at the heat staining on a few aircraft now but the F-100 can have some exceptionally colourful areas as study of pics of the full size will confirm though the camouflaged aircraft tend not to exhibit the blue hues so much but then you have burnt paint to replicate too

From the outset I used Tamiya 'clear colours' - red, yellow, orange, blue and smoke which all proved effective over an Alclad  'White Aluminium' base. They do tend to give a gloss sheen though and particularly so the smoke which can make for a patchy reflective surface unless put on very thinly.

There's no doubt about it though the Alclad heat stain colours - Sepia, Violet etc are far superior but as you imply Theuns they can be an expensive outlay if you don't intend to get much use out of them. I still use the Tamiya to get different colours/effects if needs be.

The last model done was the 1/48 F100c and this was done with Alcad right through.

If memory serves right the base was White Aluminium which was highlighted in areas with Chrome before applying very thin layers of varying colours. Shading was carried out using Jet Exhaust. One of the things I discovered was that if their Gold Titanium was sprayed extremely finely and at quite an oblique angle the misting gives a very effective metallic appearance - it's a 'powerful' colour though and can quickly obliterate whats below if overdone.

To date the only model done so far (of any finish) that has had a varnish applied is the Crusader. This (Vallejo Satin) was used because of slight silvering of the info stencil decals. All the other models both with decals and painted insignia have been given a final weathering with oils thinned with white spirit (as opposed to turpentine). There has never been any reaction either from the paint (Tamiya and Alclad) nor from any decals. I usually thin the oli paint into a 'coloured water' consistency and flood it on with a very soft brush. It's hard to describe exactly but there comes a point where this can be removed with an even larger soft haired brush which is brushed in the direction of airflow. This will leave colour in the engraving and even out the finish without giving an overall uniform bland matt appearance usually obtained when varnishing ie though diminished, higher 'polished surfaces still shine as such in contrast to other more matt surfaces. I usually use a mixture of Paynes Grey and Burnt Umber. Black I find, is too stark.

Two years ago I saw the same model I am doing finished with the Alclad 'Aqua Gloss'. The model represented a 'polished' aircraft and the effect was stunning. I bought some but have yet to pluck up courage to use it!

Well, I hope that's of use Theuns and hopefully of interest to others - all I have to do now as try to find the time to 'practice as I preach'

Regards - Ramon

If you look at my MiG 15 one page back, will the light sheen "matt it down" you think?

Is there coat between gloss and light sheen ....gloss wize?

Theuns

I'll throw in my 2¢ regarding clear coats over Alclad.  

I clear coated both of my Alclad finished aircraft.  I also wanted some protection for the decals and weathering.

I was very nervous about the first one as I had read mixed opinions about how it could ruin the metallic appearance.  I used Alclad Light Sheen over a mixture of Alclad shades, and am very happy with the appearance.  To my eye, the sheen is a bit different than the uncoated Alclad, but still looks very realistically metallic.  I use their Klear Kote Matte as my dull coat.

I have also started using the Alclad Aqua Gloss for my gloss coat, and am very happy with it.  Hard, clear, easy.  The water-based clean up and lack of solvent fumes are both great as well.

I'm always glad if I can help!

Cool thanx. I intend to use the clearcoat only as a final protective coat after all decals ect are on.

I will test the exhaust heat staining on some plastic before I try it on the model. Maybe acrylic would be the better bet here.

Theuns

Beautiful Spartan!! This is the kind of stuff I'm always looking forward to finding out.  =]

I can't tell you a lot about how well Alclad paints work with enamel paints because I only used acrylics on top of them so far (I don't paint with enamel paints), but here's what I posted in the Reich Defenders GB. I don't think Alclad's paints are any different than their clear coats, so it should apply to both:

The first time I used Alclad's clear coat was when I built a whitewashed King Tiger. I used it to seal the camo pattern before the whitewash went on in order to allow me to remove the white paint without damaging the camo. I did a test on a piece of plastic sheet to see what solvents eat through the alclad clear coat:

• Mr.Color Thinner (its a lacquer thinner, but I use it for their acrylics) went right through - no surprise here
• Tamiya X20A Thinner (acrylic) ate through the clear coat too, but it wasn't as agressive
• Revell Aqua Color Clean (strong acrylic cleaner) removed the clear coat very quickly
• Turpentine (that one really surprised me) didn't go through comletely , but it diisolved the clear coat in some areas (looked really bad) where i did an oil wash. I sprayed another flat coat on top anyway so it didn't matter that much

There was only a single thinner that didn't harm the clear coat:

• Vallejo Airbrush thinner (I used it together with Vallejo's white to create the whitewash effect). I could literally flood the surface in the thinner to remove the white paint and nothing happened to the clear coat or the paint below.

It turns out that Alclad clear coats dry rock-hard and very clear, but they can be removed/damaged with almost every solvent there is. They are perfect for the last clear coat on your model, but you can't really do a lot of weathering on top without destroying the finish. I still use them because I switched from oil washes to Flory washes for aircraft finishes. I only use oil washes on tanks and the interior of aircraft where I use no alclad clear coats.

Regardong the clear coats: Light Sheen is best for normal aluminum and Gloss works good for a polished aircraft. The gloos coat is really shiny though. It almost looks like glass...

Guys I need some of your expert advice please.

I plan to do a 1/72 F100C  and want to know how to replicate the burnt stainless steel of the rear fuselage.

I know that is has shades of gold and cobalt blue over a metal base, but can I do it by painting an Alclad alluminium (either dark or duraluminium) base and then spray VERY thinned blue and gold tamiya enalmels over it for the streaky effect? I do nit want to buy 2 very expensive alclads for limited use.

Will the solvents in the enalem ( I use mineral turpentine) affect the alclad base??? It also appears to me that the "hot" section is less shiny than the rest of the airframe maybe?

Last question - I have never put a clearcoat over my Alclad models, I see however on my F-86 where I handeled the model it looks like the finger marks have "rusted"

I need to protect the paint but am worried a clearcoat might detract from the natural metal look.

I can get Alclad clear coat in semi-flat and gloss.

What would be best over an airframe aswell as a pollished allu plane?

Thanx guys

Theuns

Hi Misty - yes, much as I prefer Tamiya to all else for spraying it's really poor for brush use.

One thing with the Vallejo - the range is awesome and it's a bit daunting to decide which to get. My most used colours are Black-Grey, (as opposed to Black itself) and Light grey - these get used not only as is but also for toning down and darkening other colours. I now have a good range but have only ever bought them four or five at a time - as with the Alclad 'collection' I hate to think what the total cost would be!

Tug

Nice one Tug, ill get me some vallejo and give it a try. Tamiya sucks for detail painting.

Hi Misty, Theuns, Big Blue and Clemens, thanks for your appreciation.

I have 'no secrets' Misty  (BTW like Big Blue I never felt comfortable with that old name - IMO you needed to have dropped the 'less' at least ) but I'm not so sure about handing out painting tips to such an august bunch of modellers.  I'm sure any I do have must be similar to others.

The two I do stick religiously to though are based on pointers over quite a span of time....

My first - from an old art teacher at school - was when you want to paint a thin line always use a 'big' brush - with an extremely fine point. Mostly, though there are exceptions when I use something like a 000 or 0000, I use a 1 or 2 which do have (or are worn to) a very fine point. The brush holds the paint, the point does the work. Secondary to this is that the paint must be thin and at the very first hint of the tip drying the brush is washed out and recharged. Usually any attempt once that very tip dries - which isn't long if using acrylics- leads to more pressure being applied to the tip to get the paint to flow which, when it does, normally over does things. I use the 000 to paint things like imaginary wording on things like placards - just a series of small dots/marks

Unless there really is no alternative, I try never to hold the part in one hand and paint the part with the other. You may have noticed but all parts are stuck to little blocks of white faced particle board which in turn are held at any angle required by supporting them in a blob or 'three' of Silly Putty. That way one hand can steady the other to enable very controlled movement of the brush.

Over the years I've used various paints but find the Vallejo acrylic paints perfect for brush painting. They do, as said, dry quickly on the brush and to some extent on the pallette too. A wet pallette can be used to lengthen the usable time but I prefer to use a white wall tile laying out very small amounts of paint, constantly refreshing it. I have tried the retarder but don't like the effect it has on the paint so prefer to keep the paint thin and flowable using multiple coats to get the opacity. I don't know if it makes any real difference but I use filtered tap water with a drop or two of washing up liquid in half a liter which helps break the surface tension

When the pipework is molded on I usually paint this on the top surface letting the darker (or lighter) background from the initial spray coat act like a 'wash' to give the pipe some relief. Most times that works though not always.

Hope that's a little helpful to you  Misty

BV - I share the feeling. I always used to look at 1/32 and think that's too big for me. Then I saw the Crusader and knew I had to build one. I found that a bit of a handful and said I wouldn't do another but the the F-100 came along at a knock down price and I succumbed. As I look at it now sitting on the bench I have to say  'size matters' and going back to 48th is going to be difficult - trouble is I have so many in the stash though. The main limiter is storage space once finished - I'd love to do that B-17 you guys mention but having seen one built at Telford last year you have my 'sympathy' with trying to find that a home.

I have another, non plastic, distraction coming up so it will be a few days before I can get back onto the Sabre - hope you are all beavering away.

Regards - Tug

Tug,

Looks great!  As others have said, your ability to paint fine details is very impressive.  Thanks for posting.

Misty,

Glad to see the new moniker!  Never felt right calling you Talentless.

BV,

Any updates to share?

lmao, yup new name!!  i begged and grovelled and pleaded and promised my firstborn (hes 23 now and a big bugger) as a sacrifice and pity was taken on me !!!!

Tug, you're making me really jealous of the 1:32 scale now.   I'm actually excited to see you move through your painting process step by step.  You're other NMFs you posted were right on.  I've got my own thoughts about how to go about it, but I will be glad to see someone post who's already done it. =]

and Misty....I'll probably still call you "Talent"  =P

Hey, looks like you got a new screenname! Congrats on that! Now I don't have call you talentless anymore

OMG TUG thats looking lovely.

how do you manage to do such a neat job of the detail painting on the airbrake, whats your method?

tips please !!

H Clemens - I guess I should have added - it's the ideal solution when your wrists get old and a bit 'arthritic-ee'. All I need know is to find something to solve the problem with the knees 

Your detail painting looks simply amazing, Tug! The office and speed brake bay look gorgeous. Regarding that paint shaking trick: I don't have a jigsaw so I'll just continue shaking my bottles the old-school way: Just using my trusty old Hands Mk.1.

Hi Guys, Just a small update - shared with other things this build isn't going as quick as I would like but it's getting there slowly.

 I've managed a couple of good sessions and at last I have a fuselage in one piece 

First off was to get that speed brake bay painted..

Then finally assembling the cockpit ..

And it was already for that final bit of tweaking and assembly .....ignore the green on the trunking - that's a 'test piece' - trying out the new (to me) Vallejo Primer. (Appears to be quite tough with good adhesion but does take a while to harden. Apart from the fumes though I think I still prefer Al-clad Micro Primer)

And at last it's one piece.

Apart from the need to glue in locating pieces for the U/C bay and speed brake as an aid to assembly the fit of all pieces was exceptionally good. The cockpit just clicked in place just a bit of sanding on the outside was all that was required. The fit of the 'opening' parts was reasonable too - the ammo bay covers, gun covers and gun channels requiring little work to fit. The opening nose panel however wasn't quite as good and despite some care did not fit 'fair' on the right side along the lower edge. It's difficult to tell with this white plastic but a coat of primer should reveal all.

Masking is next then I can begin the fun bit - painting that rear end.

When painting the details Vallejo paints were used and as usual when these have stood idle for sometime the paint separates and need a lot of shaking to re-homogenise it. I was told of this tip by a club member and have used it for a long time now - it certainly makes very short work of the business and I thought it might be of use to someone. 

The idea is to attach the bottle using an elastic band to the blade of a jig saw. The blade has the teeth ground off of course. The reciprocating action soon makes short work of shaking the paint up. I found the bands didn't last long so I introduce a length of silicone rubber over the blade which solved that problem and in use this allowed to bounce of the hand other wise it just gets thrown off. The silicone tubing is about 40mm longer than the blade.  I've found it quite safe to do - just make sure the blade is nice and tight - if you're not happy about using your hand then a piece of timber would be fine but you would need a shallow cavity to locate the silicone tube otherwise it will move 'off centre'

A 'before and after' - about 30 - 40 seconds worth....

Hope that's of value to someone.

I guess you're all are beavering away at something 

Regards - Tug

oops I in the wrong subject Sorry