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What are Filters?

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  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Friday, September 16, 2011 10:18 AM

Glad to have helped, antique-dude!Good luck, and post some pics of your results!!

If you need any clarifications, just PM me--"Start Conversation". Big Smile

  • Member since
    August 2011
Posted by antique74 on Friday, September 16, 2011 10:14 AM

NIce post, doog. I learned a lot. I have one model base painted and camoflaged; now to try some of your techniques on it.

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Thursday, September 15, 2011 10:55 AM

antique74

Thanks to all for massive information.

I think I understand filters better now, except for dot filtering. I understand that you use just enough thinner to spread the paint to a super thin layer. But how to you apply the paint and what is the word, dot, describing?

NO--you use as MUCH thinner as necessary to remove most of the paint, leaving just a residue of it behind.

This should help you out, antique--if you have anymore questions, feel free to PM me!

The Doog's Weathering Toot

Just click the link and read through it. The photos will help with the text!

  • Member since
    August 2011
Posted by antique74 on Thursday, September 15, 2011 10:20 AM

Thanks to all for massive information.

I think I understand filters better now, except for dot filtering. I understand that you use just enough thinner to spread the paint to a super thin layer. But how to you apply the paint and what is the word, dot, describing?

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Wednesday, September 14, 2011 6:37 PM

antique74

 

I notice that filters are sold. Are these different than making your own filters?

MIG"s filters are sold in a carrier that is similar to enamel base. It takes much longer to dry, and affords the modeler more time to manipulate it and "play with it". It's noticeably different from regular mineral spirits carrier.

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Wednesday, September 14, 2011 6:35 PM

K-dawg

The "dot" filter method or "fading" as it's sometimes called (depending on the application) uses almost no liquid carrier, only enough to spread the oil or enamel paint around. The premixed liquid filters from my understanding should also be applied as dry as possible by unloading the brush on a cloth so that only a thin almost transparent veil of paint is laid down form the damp brush. There shouldn't be any puddles deposited on the model that can collect in recesses. 

 

If you really want the low down on Filters check out this link to Mig Jimenez's article.

http://missing-lynx.com/rare_world/rw02.htm

If I may add to, and expand this discussion?

The "Dot Method" is not necessarily applied with a low proportion of thinner. When I used it on my Hetzer build here a couple years ago--and SINCE then--I applied it with copious amounts of thinner to dilute the colors so that only a thin sheen of them remained.  In fact, you rather almost try to wash the color off the model, and what remains is what constitutes the "Dot-filtered" effect. This is because the Dot Filter technique came from Spain, where the bright colors in the application--primary colors, all, basically--are intended to simulate the bright colors of the sun and the refraction of the environment on a given painted surface. Its intent is not really to "weather" as such, but instead to hint at subtle chromatic hues and differences around the model's surface. I know, I"m nitpicking, bur that's how it started in "Armor magazine".Wink

With apologies to my good buddy wbill76 (and we've discussed this before, so don't kill me, Bill! Embarrassed) applying "dots" with natural weathering colors--Dark Umber, Tan, etc--is not really what the strict term "Dot Filters" was intended to be. When it started it was a direct juxtaposition to the "Nordic Method" which featured weathering using a lot of harsh white and Black derivatives to make harsh shadows and hues. In essence, "Dot Filtering" is as much about the colors you use as it is about how you disperse them.

"Filtering" can be applied in either thin layers or not. In conversation with Adam WIlder, he has related how he tips the model on its side and then lays on a puddle of thinned paint-a technique that I used in my Sdkfz 251 Ausf D mit Shwebelafette, (the article and explanation of it which is probably still available in the June 2010 back issue of FSM.) Or, it can be added sparingly for more subtle effects. When wbill76 lays down dots of weathering enamels and blends them in in his excellent WIP posts that we have all seen, that is filtering. Using dots. Big Smile

Think of Filtering in the same way that you'd think of a filter applied to a camera lens. It can be heavy or light, It can change the color subtly or more radically if desired when built up in layers. What you're essentially doing is filtering the light that refracts from the painted surface and gives us what we consider to be "color".How much you layer on affects the final perception of that color in the end.

 

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: England
Posted by P mitch on Wednesday, September 14, 2011 5:27 PM

Neither, ex rugby player so dont do football, or as you call it soccer

"If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: it's all balls." R J Mitchell


  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Spring Branch, TX
Posted by satch_ip on Wednesday, September 14, 2011 2:01 PM

P mitch, I have to ask.  Red or Blue?

 

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: England
Posted by P mitch on Wednesday, September 14, 2011 1:48 PM

Pre mixed filters are a lot easier to use (I use them) but they can be quite specific, Tan  for Tritonal, Blue for Panzer Grey and Brown for Dark Yellow. I like them and they do pull a lot of the colours together. They are more specific I think but they may be more limited in use then ones you mix yourself

Phil

"If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: it's all balls." R J Mitchell


  • Member since
    August 2011
Posted by antique74 on Wednesday, September 14, 2011 1:15 PM

Since I started this series of postings, I must admit that I know little about filters, but as a painter, your post makes sense to me. A dry brush is used for dry brushing. A filter using highly diluted paint is called a glaze in oils, acrylic, and watercolor painting. It is used to modify (not change) the colors in a painting and to "pull" or tie the painting together.

I notice that filters are sold. Are these different than making your own filters?

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Arkansas
Posted by K-dawg on Wednesday, September 7, 2011 11:19 AM

Forget about it... Big Smile  That's why it's called a Discussion forum! We discuss, discard, figure out who doesn't know squat about anything and send them packing over to the aircraft side.... Wink

Kenneth Childres, Central Arkansas Scale Modelers

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Piscataway, NJ!
Posted by wing_nut on Wednesday, September 7, 2011 10:41 AM

Yeah I think so too.  i just went back and reread that MIG article and it does say pretty much what you describe.  So however you do take backs in a forum... consider it doneWink

Marc  

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Arkansas
Posted by K-dawg on Wednesday, September 7, 2011 7:15 AM

I think you're taking me to literal Marc. By "dry as possible" I simply mean a damp brush, not wet to where it deposits puddles.

Kenneth Childres, Central Arkansas Scale Modelers

  • Member since
    October 2009
Posted by Kentucky Colonel on Tuesday, September 6, 2011 6:53 PM

I'm no expert either and more a beginer than anything.

This is what I read about fliters and I'm going to stick with it.

http://www.missing-lynx.com/rare_world/rw02.htm

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Piscataway, NJ!
Posted by wing_nut on Tuesday, September 6, 2011 5:42 PM

And I will have to, only partially, disagree you you KDawg.  If you apply anything, regardless of how dilute the mix, as "dry" as possible with a "brush"... well that's just a "dry brush" to me.  

 My 1st advise is to read about and get an idea of what they are meant to accomplish.  Me, I look at it as if were a photography filter.  Applied a color or tinted piece to change the over all appearance of a color.  That is some of what i got out of the MIG article but I read that a longtime ago.  To that end when I am applying a filter it is an extremely thin mix of about 95% thinner to 5% paint that I will airbrush over large areas to "shift" a color.  To the dot "filter" method... that is actually a fairly wet application.  Dots of paint the are spread with a wet application of thinner.  Almost  like the 95/5 mix described below.    Or like on a piece that has the top faded a bit because it is facing the some all the time... I will mix a 95/05 mix of thinner to buff and apply light coats over the entire top surface.  That is basically what happens in the dot filter technique.  The base color has a very thin coating of paint spread over it to change the appearance of the base coat.  There should be little, if any, of the actual filter color seen. 

A filter is also useful to tie color together.  A freshly paint German tri-color camo can benefit from a filter of the yellow base color to tone it all down a bit to look less stark and at the some time pull all the colors together.

You will see other techniques of applying colors to portions of panels or within a deep recess etc to give the illusion of  directional light and/or depth.  That can be best described as color modulation

Marc  

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Tuesday, September 6, 2011 5:22 PM

I don't claim to be an expert on the subject and I've seen different descriptions of it in the forums, so I excuse myself if I was inaccurate.

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Arkansas
Posted by K-dawg on Tuesday, September 6, 2011 4:21 PM

I humbly disagree Tigerman...

Filters should NOT be lumped in with washes when describing them. If a "filter" is applied like a thin wash then what you get IS a thin wash that collects in the corners which is not their function. In fact filters should be applied as "dry" as possible. Meaning with as little liquid as possible. The "dot" filter method or "fading" as it's sometimes called (depending on the application) uses almost no liquid carrier, only enough to spread the oil or enamel paint around. The premixed liquid filters from my understanding should also be applied as dry as possible by unloading the brush on a cloth so that only a thin almost transparent veil of paint is laid down form the damp brush. There shouldn't be any puddles deposited on the model that can collect in recesses. 

 

If you really want the low down on Filters check out this link to Mig Jimenez's article.

http://missing-lynx.com/rare_world/rw02.htm

Kenneth Childres, Central Arkansas Scale Modelers

  • Member since
    August 2011
Posted by antique74 on Tuesday, September 6, 2011 3:27 PM

Thanks tigerman.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Monday, September 5, 2011 12:43 PM

Really thin washes. I do mine with oil paint and mineral spirits.

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    August 2011
What are Filters?
Posted by antique74 on Monday, September 5, 2011 12:34 PM

I am reading a Brit model magazine and came across filters. What are filters and how do you use them?

From the article I guess filters may be diluted paint. I now weather armor with earth, or red-brown, or sand thinned with four or five parts water to one part acrylic paint. How are filters different?

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