Hmmmmmm nice kit there Eric...

I've got an Dragon Elefant in my stash, I'm not sure which kit it is though.

I've been building mostly aircraft of late and an Elefant GB as a change of pace might just lure me in....

Your right Eric,they are dribbling out some new kits over the last few years,Jagdtiger,JSU-152,Super sherman,and Isherman,which were pretty good.At least they are still putting out some new stuff.

The DML Elefant kits are quite good though,The one w/zimm has a nice amount of PE and a metal barrel.I bet the Tamiya only has a small PE fret and that s it,and it won't be cheap either,but like you said,at least their still interested

I agree that it will cost more then the Dragon kits and probably give you less. It will most likely be sans zimmerit as well, which will add further to the cost.

I'm just hoping that they release a reasonably priced Crusader Mk I/II. They surprised me with the BT-7, but it's still too much for my blood.

Cliff, never say never. I ran an Elefant GB about 5 years ago and it was a blast. Problem is my Tiger I keeps whispering to me in my sleep.

That being said, I'd be open to considering a Ferdy/Elefant GB. Again, I haven't built a Tiger I in over 15 years and my Tamiya effort looks mighty sad right now.

Wasn't the other Dragon Ferdinand Premium a Kursk vehicle as well. I can't see what the difference is going to be.

That Pz II does look interesting though.

DML has a tendency to do this whenever one of their competitors is going to launch a newly-tooled release...they will trot out a CH orange box or a Premium treatment to try to stay out in front a bit in terms of the news/market. Will be interesting to see what Tamiya does with the Ferdie!

Bill, the Tamiya kit is an Elefant, not a Ferdy, so you know there are a few subtle differences, but also needs zimmerit.

Bish, good question what the difference might be. Could be a simple upgrade or correction.

Far as I know, Ferdy's were revamped after Kursk and given the MG and zimmerit. Not sure if Ferdy's went to Italy or were converted first.

I believe they were pulled off the eastern front, converted and then sent to Italy. Thats also when the name was changed from Fredinand to Elefant.

I will wager the difference in kits is something minor. There were no new ones built afetr Kursk, so it can't be a completly different vehicle.

I was too quick on my typing...DML has a Ferdie, Tamiya has the Elefant. The Elefant does need zim and of course should feature the hull MG, the changes to the roof layout (including periscopes) etc. that were part of the post-Kursk refit of the Ferdies into "Elefant" configurations.

As Manny Boy would say "The world wonders".

Yes, i can't imagine the changes to the actual kit from mine is that substantial.

Okay, I dug out my box and looked for differences. I came up with this: an additional toolbox on the right-hand side made of PE. That appears to be it! So if you have the Ferdy Premium as I do, save your money.

And i bet they will bump the price up for that tool box.

A couple of years ago I had an idea of building a diorama based on this pic. In this case a full interior seems justified, even in a Ferdinand.

/Tony aka Bultenibo

bultenibo

A couple of years ago I had an idea of building a diorama based on this pic. In this case a full interior seems justified, even in a Ferdinand.

 

/Tony aka Bultenibo

Whoa Tony, great picture. I'd have to say that was a German demo job. No penetration of that thick hide could do that much damage.

Interresting........    Competition is always good.  I'll stick with Dragon though, more bang for my buck. 

Nice pic!!!

bultenibo

A couple of years ago I had an idea of building a diorama based on this pic. In this case a full interior seems justified, even in a Ferdinand.

 

/Tony aka Bultenibo

Ouch, somehow I'm wondering if that's one of Manny's AFVs and a jilted ex-wife was involved somehow...

Eric: Ok, no worries!

Actually I checked my kit and it's a Ferdinand instead of an Elefant. From the '39-'45 series, nice kit but none of the PE and other goodies from the later versions. I was a little shocked that there was only ONE 'not to be used' part marked on the instruction sheet.

. In this case a full interior seems justified

Don't be so sure. An explosion that blows the top off a vehicle like  that, will destroy anything made of sheet metal within it. Only solid steel objects like the gun will need accurate representation.

David

Byrden

. In this case a full interior seems justified

Don't be so sure. An explosion that blows the top off a vehicle like  that, will destroy anything made of sheet metal within it. Only solid steel objects like the gun will need accurate representation.

 

David

 

Well, that 's  what I meant - that the leftover of the interior should be represented, atleast as debris.

/Tony

Found the pic on this Russian site that's trying to document all the knocked out Ferdinand  at Kursk:

http://grayknight.narod.ru/Ferds_Kursk_43/Ferds_Kursk_43.htm

Quite impressive collection of pics, and could definatly be an inpirational source if one is into building wrecks!

/Tony

Great site Tony. It looks like some of them were destroyed by the Germans after being damaged by the Russians, i.e. blown out rear escape hatches on at least 3-4 of them. Armor on the casemate was up to 200mm. From wiki, it appears that most were loss to mines (noticed many had lost wheels) and mechanical failure, not to enemy gunfire or even molotov cocktails or magnetic mines.

tigerman

Great site Tony. It looks like some of them were destroyed by the Germans after being damaged by the, i.e. blown out rear escape hatches on at least 3-4 of them. Armor on the casemate was up to 200mm. From wiki, it appears that most were loss to mines (noticed many had lost wheels) and mechanical failure, not to enemy gunfire or even molotov cocktails or magnetic mines.

Tigerman:

I think you're right. There are not many pictures on the site where you can see any penetration of the armor!

I read a really good book about the battle of Kursk by two Swedish military historians (Anders Franksson & Niklas Zetterling) , in which they re-examined the tank losses at Kursk, pretty much based on all of the sources available in German archives. The results were quite astounding and for example shattered the old picture of the battle of Prochorovka as a graveyard of German tanks.

The number they came up with was 335 Soviet losses against only 25 German in that battle. They contributed the low figure on the German side especially to the effectivness of German recovery and repair units. I also remember that reason for the relatively high losses of Ferdinands - as you say, due to mechanical failure and mines - was the lack of a recovery vehicle that could pull this 65 ton beast off the battlefield. That's really a remarkable stupidity - sending tanks into battles that can not be recovered!

/Tony

Thanks for the link Tony! Great stuff there, if and when I do the Ferdinand I wanted to do a knocked-out one so those photos are invaluable.

Site bookmarked!

Wow!!!   Thanks for the link.

http://www.dragonmodelsusa.com/dmlusa/prodd.asp?pid=DRA6495

A little update. In addition to the toolbox, Dragon produced correct magic tracks to the Ferdy.

I any of you ever going to embark on the project of building the Ferdinand/Elephant with a full interior this WIP thread found on Planet armor can do one of two things to your plans:

1. Either you are utterly deterred from continuing with your plan.

2. Or you got the most  detailed description of the Ferdinand interior possible, which should be of good use realizing your plan.

http://www.planetarmor.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4172

Here's an example of the level of detail of the build:

/Tony

Hmmm.....Tamiya releasing a brand new Elefant is definitely of interest to me since I have neither an Elefant kit NOR a Ferdinand kit in my stash!  Eric, if you do put together a Ferdinand/Elefant GB you can count me in!  Of course that will mean I'll have to buy a new kit.  . Tamiya?  Dragon?  Italeri?  

bultenibo

I any of you ever going to embark on the project of building the Ferdinand/Elephant with a full interior this WIP thread found on Planet armor can do one of two things to your plans:

1. Either you are utterly deterred from continuing with your plan.

2. Or you got the most  detailed description of the Ferdinand interior possible, which should be of good use realizing your plan.

http://www.planetarmor.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4172

Here's an example of the level of detail of the build:

/Tony

 

That is one unbelievable build!!! Quite possibly the most detailed I've ever seen.

Hey wow, thanks Tony! Bookmarked that site too.

To be honest I was intending whenever I get around to my knocked-out Ferdinand of blocking out the inside with cotton ball smoke and a dead crewman hanging out of a hatch. Yeah I know cotton ball smoke looks kinda silly but I'm too lazy to build all that.

bufflehead

Hmmm.....Tamiya releasing a brand new Elefant is definitely of interest to me since I have neither an Elefant kit NOR a Ferdinand kit in my stash!  Eric, if you do put together a Ferdinand/Elefant GB you can count me in!  Of course that will mean I'll have to buy a new kit.  . Tamiya?  Dragon?  Italeri?  

I probably wouldn't opt for the Italeri due to age and those terrible tracks. Tamiya will probably cost an arm and leg. Doubt it will have an aluminum barrel. I'd recommend from experience Dragon's kit.

Tigerman:

Do you know if there are a big difference - regarding the qualitity of the kits - between the Dragon Ferdinand and the Elephant? I would like to build either one of them.

/Tony

What bums me out is that they're just another rehash of kits that are already out there, and out there in real quality versions.

Not like the WWI British Mark IV that I've been impatiently waiting for, and pining for for years!?