No worries. I just woundred if you had seen any pics other than on the instructions.

Looking forward to your second take on this.

Bish

Lovely looking build tiger. The unit insignia caught my eye. I have the CH Panther with Pz IV turret. It comes with that same insignia. I hadn't seen it before and was woundering if it was real or somthing Dragon made up. Did you find any referance pics of it.

I'm afraid I can't help you there Bish. I lost my directions.

Thanks for the nice comments. I wasn't happy with the weathering, decals, and camo (thanks Bob), so I bought the Ferdy so I could redo this old guy to a better look or so I hope.

Boy, I've created some interest in a GB? Hmmm, let me think it over.

Eric-Nice job on the Elefant-I like the camo scheme.  Zimmert looks spot on also. Regarding the lack of weathering, it's good to see a cleaner look. 

tigerman

 

bultenibo:

 

Tigerman:

Do you know if there are a big difference - regarding the qualitity of the kits - between the Dragon Ferdinand and the Elephant? I would like to build either one of them.

/Tony

 

 

Bare with me Tony.

There are two older releases, that are relatively the same with the exception of a few different parts, such as the mg, etc. They are both great kits, except.........those tracks. I had a nightmare with them, but I was sort of indy noob. I scored some DS tracks that saved the day.

They released a Ferdinand in the Premium edition. I have that. It comes with an aluminum barrel, magic tracks, and a bunch of PE for the fenders and such, also metal cable. A huge upgrade over the older kits. I can't state off hand if there is a premium Elefant.

Finally, they released an Elefant with zimmerit. I do not know anything about that kit. My best guess, is it gives you everything in the Premium Edition, but can't confirm it.

So, if you do a Ferdy, I'd recommend the Premium version and if you do an Elefant, probably the zimmed version.

Thanks a bunch Tigerman! The Ferdinand Premium edition sounds good to me, since a lot of metal is already included!

I'll roam around the net now looking for a pricetag on that one.

BTW a GB sounds like a great idea! (Hmm, wonder if there were any Russian Beute Elephants...)

/Tony

Ahhh yes, I remember this old girl! Nice build (still!).

So the new DML release is like a Premium Premium edition??

If there's an Elefant/Ferdy GB I'm in for sure.

Lovely looking build tiger. The unit insignia caught my eye. I have the CH Panther with Pz IV turret. It comes with that same insignia. I hadn't seen it before and was woundering if it was real or somthing Dragon made up. Did you find any referance pics of it.

Thanks Anthony, I wasn't sure about the DS tracks. I never read a review on it. They aren't that bad, not as detailed as indies of course. 

Her's mine with Cavalier zimmerit. Remember the cost will be around $24 for the zimmerit, so that's why I suggest getting the pre-zimmed.

I did a poor job on the decals and I wasn't happy with the weathering. I didn't weather a whole lot back when I built this and it shows. Overall, it was a nice fitting kit. I think it was only my 2nd Dragon kit and there was some errors with the wheels that need to be watched closely. The hardest construction part was the travel lock.

The DML Elefant with/zimm comes with DS tracks,some PE,and a metal Barrel.Very nice fit and ease of assembly

bultenibo

Tigerman:

Do you know if there are a big difference - regarding the qualitity of the kits - between the Dragon Ferdinand and the Elephant? I would like to build either one of them.

/Tony

Bare with me Tony.

There are two older releases, that are relatively the same with the exception of a few different parts, such as the mg, etc. They are both great kits, except.........those tracks. I had a nightmare with them, but I was sort of indy noob. I scored some DS tracks that saved the day.

They released a Ferdinand in the Premium edition. I have that. It comes with an aluminum barrel, magic tracks, and a bunch of PE for the fenders and such, also metal cable. A huge upgrade over the older kits. I can't state off hand if there is a premium Elefant.

Finally, they released an Elefant with zimmerit. I do not know anything about that kit. My best guess, is it gives you everything in the Premium Edition, but can't confirm it.

So, if you do a Ferdy, I'd recommend the Premium version and if you do an Elefant, probably the zimmed version.

What bums me out is that they're just another rehash of kits that are already out there, and out there in real quality versions.

Not like the WWI British Mark IV that I've been impatiently waiting for, and pining for for years!?

Tigerman:

Do you know if there are a big difference - regarding the qualitity of the kits - between the Dragon Ferdinand and the Elephant? I would like to build either one of them.

/Tony

bufflehead

Hmmm.....Tamiya releasing a brand new Elefant is definitely of interest to me since I have neither an Elefant kit NOR a Ferdinand kit in my stash!  Eric, if you do put together a Ferdinand/Elefant GB you can count me in!  Of course that will mean I'll have to buy a new kit.  . Tamiya?  Dragon?  Italeri?  

I probably wouldn't opt for the Italeri due to age and those terrible tracks. Tamiya will probably cost an arm and leg. Doubt it will have an aluminum barrel. I'd recommend from experience Dragon's kit.

Hey wow, thanks Tony! Bookmarked that site too.

To be honest I was intending whenever I get around to my knocked-out Ferdinand of blocking out the inside with cotton ball smoke and a dead crewman hanging out of a hatch. Yeah I know cotton ball smoke looks kinda silly but I'm too lazy to build all that.

bultenibo

I any of you ever going to embark on the project of building the Ferdinand/Elephant with a full interior this WIP thread found on Planet armor can do one of two things to your plans:

1. Either you are utterly deterred from continuing with your plan.

2. Or you got the most  detailed description of the Ferdinand interior possible, which should be of good use realizing your plan.

http://www.planetarmor.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4172

Here's an example of the level of detail of the build:

/Tony

 

That is one unbelievable build!!! Quite possibly the most detailed I've ever seen.

Hmmm.....Tamiya releasing a brand new Elefant is definitely of interest to me since I have neither an Elefant kit NOR a Ferdinand kit in my stash!  Eric, if you do put together a Ferdinand/Elefant GB you can count me in!  Of course that will mean I'll have to buy a new kit.  . Tamiya?  Dragon?  Italeri?  

I any of you ever going to embark on the project of building the Ferdinand/Elephant with a full interior this WIP thread found on Planet armor can do one of two things to your plans:

1. Either you are utterly deterred from continuing with your plan.

2. Or you got the most  detailed description of the Ferdinand interior possible, which should be of good use realizing your plan.

http://www.planetarmor.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4172

Here's an example of the level of detail of the build:

/Tony

http://www.dragonmodelsusa.com/dmlusa/prodd.asp?pid=DRA6495

A little update. In addition to the toolbox, Dragon produced correct magic tracks to the Ferdy.

Wow!!!   Thanks for the link.

Thanks for the link Tony! Great stuff there, if and when I do the Ferdinand I wanted to do a knocked-out one so those photos are invaluable.

Site bookmarked!

tigerman

Great site Tony. It looks like some of them were destroyed by the Germans after being damaged by the, i.e. blown out rear escape hatches on at least 3-4 of them. Armor on the casemate was up to 200mm. From wiki, it appears that most were loss to mines (noticed many had lost wheels) and mechanical failure, not to enemy gunfire or even molotov cocktails or magnetic mines.

Tigerman:

I think you're right. There are not many pictures on the site where you can see any penetration of the armor!

I read a really good book about the battle of Kursk by two Swedish military historians (Anders Franksson & Niklas Zetterling) , in which they re-examined the tank losses at Kursk, pretty much based on all of the sources available in German archives. The results were quite astounding and for example shattered the old picture of the battle of Prochorovka as a graveyard of German tanks.

The number they came up with was 335 Soviet losses against only 25 German in that battle. They contributed the low figure on the German side especially to the effectivness of German recovery and repair units. I also remember that reason for the relatively high losses of Ferdinands - as you say, due to mechanical failure and mines - was the lack of a recovery vehicle that could pull this 65 ton beast off the battlefield. That's really a remarkable stupidity - sending tanks into battles that can not be recovered!

/Tony

Great site Tony. It looks like some of them were destroyed by the Germans after being damaged by the Russians, i.e. blown out rear escape hatches on at least 3-4 of them. Armor on the casemate was up to 200mm. From wiki, it appears that most were loss to mines (noticed many had lost wheels) and mechanical failure, not to enemy gunfire or even molotov cocktails or magnetic mines.

Found the pic on this Russian site that's trying to document all the knocked out Ferdinand  at Kursk:

http://grayknight.narod.ru/Ferds_Kursk_43/Ferds_Kursk_43.htm

Quite impressive collection of pics, and could definatly be an inpirational source if one is into building wrecks!

/Tony

Byrden

. In this case a full interior seems justified

Don't be so sure. An explosion that blows the top off a vehicle like  that, will destroy anything made of sheet metal within it. Only solid steel objects like the gun will need accurate representation.

 

David

 

Well, that 's  what I meant - that the leftover of the interior should be represented, atleast as debris.

/Tony

. In this case a full interior seems justified

Don't be so sure. An explosion that blows the top off a vehicle like  that, will destroy anything made of sheet metal within it. Only solid steel objects like the gun will need accurate representation.

David

bultenibo

A couple of years ago I had an idea of building a diorama based on this pic. In this case a full interior seems justified, even in a Ferdinand.

 

/Tony aka Bultenibo

Ouch, somehow I'm wondering if that's one of Manny's AFVs and a jilted ex-wife was involved somehow...

Eric: Ok, no worries!

Actually I checked my kit and it's a Ferdinand instead of an Elefant. From the '39-'45 series, nice kit but none of the PE and other goodies from the later versions. I was a little shocked that there was only ONE 'not to be used' part marked on the instruction sheet.

Interresting........    Competition is always good.  I'll stick with Dragon though, more bang for my buck. 

Nice pic!!!

bultenibo

A couple of years ago I had an idea of building a diorama based on this pic. In this case a full interior seems justified, even in a Ferdinand.

 

/Tony aka Bultenibo

Whoa Tony, great picture. I'd have to say that was a German demo job. No penetration of that thick hide could do that much damage.

A couple of years ago I had an idea of building a diorama based on this pic. In this case a full interior seems justified, even in a Ferdinand.

/Tony aka Bultenibo

And i bet they will bump the price up for that tool box.