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Question about undercoating/primer on MOPAR bodies

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  • Member since
    January 2007
Question about undercoating/primer on MOPAR bodies
Posted by the doog on Saturday, November 7, 2015 9:49 PM

Hi guys---I'm waiting for my new compressor to arrive to resume work on my 69 Daytona, and was doing some research in the meantime, and I have found some contradictory info on undercoating and primers used on MOPAR bodies. Some people seem to paint the frame rails black, but it states on a MOPAR site that car bodies were "dipped' in a dark gray primer up to their light wells. Overspray was of course seen, but why do some guys seem to paint the frames in body color?

Anyone have any more info to impart about this? How about some good photos of the bottoms of certain MOPARS--models OR preferably real?

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: East Bethel, MN
Posted by midnightprowler on Sunday, November 8, 2015 6:21 AM

 On unibody cars, Chassis, including rear frame rails, was primer gray, with body colored overspray on the edges, the front subframe was semi gloss black.  Full frame vehicles, same thing on the floorpan, frame rails are semi gloss black.

Hi, I am Lee, I am a plastiholic.

Co. A, 682 Engineers, Ltchfield, MN, 1980-1986

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 1 Corinthians 15:51-54

Ask me about Speedway Decals

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Sunday, November 8, 2015 8:45 AM

midnightprowler

 On unibody cars, Chassis, including rear frame rails, was primer gray, with body colored overspray on the edges, the front subframe was semi gloss black.  Full frame vehicles, same thing on the floorpan, frame rails are semi gloss black.

 

Lee, thanks a bunch for the info. I hope I don't sound stupid, but what is the difference between a "unibody" and a "full frame"? What would be examples? I honestly don't know how you would classify them. Where would Chargers, Daytonas, Superbirds, Cudas, Road Runners, etc fall into those categories? Huh?

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Canada
Posted by JTRACING on Sunday, November 8, 2015 12:54 PM

the underneath can be painted in body color, this is the way most restored 1/1 cars get done.then you can have the black underneath, and the primer grey with overspray lol so really the choice is yours!

i have noticed  the inner fender wells front and rear are always black.

im working on a mopar now and will be going with body color on mine

 

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Sunday, November 8, 2015 3:06 PM

Hello!

Really nice info here!

Doog - unibody means that you don't have a separate frame on a car - the sheet metal is carrying all the weight. VW Beetle would be a well known although a non-Mopar example... Full frame is a design where you can detach a frame, somewhat like on a heavy truck, where you have a ladder frame and you bolt everything else to it. American cars from the fifties almost all had full frame designs to facilitate the annual yearly body style changes. Ford hot rods are of full frame design. Hope it helps and I'm sure somebody is going to clarify this even more. Good luck with your builds and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Sunday, November 8, 2015 3:45 PM

JTRACING

the underneath can be painted in body color, this is the way most restored 1/1 cars get done.then you can have the black underneath, and the primer grey with overspray lol so really the choice is yours!

i have noticed  the inner fender wells front and rear are always black.

im working on a mopar now and will be going with body color on mine

JT,

Excellent info and thanks for the outstanding photos--exactly what I needed!

It's honestly so confusing because there are so many resto's out there, and it seems that some guys tend to go with something aesthetic it seems rather than necessarily correct. I've noticed that a lot of resto's seem to be more aesthetically finished than proper, but I guess you can do what you want if you've got the money and are going to make your "dream car".

I read on this link to the "Winger Warriors" site that cars were "dipped" in dark gray primer. There's some interesting info there for anyone wanting to peruse it. 

I believe that the black wheelwell and transmission channel was an undercoating available from 1970 on, and that was usually sprayed in last, so it obliterates any overspray in those areas. It would go from the front wheelwells along the engine coupling back through the driveshaft area to the wheel wells and stop there. I am surprised to see the leaf springs painted black; I would have though that they were more of a yellowish zinc color and left natural?

Judging from photographic evidence however, it seems almost anything goes within reasonable parameters. Thanks again for the great info!

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Sunday, November 8, 2015 3:48 PM

Pawel

Hello!

Really nice info here!

Doog - unibody means that you don't have a separate frame on a car - the sheet metal is carrying all the weight. VW Beetle would be a well known although a non-Mopar example... Full frame is a design where you can detach a frame, somewhat like on a heavy truck, where you have a ladder frame and you bolt everything else to it. American cars from the fifties almost all had full frame designs to facilitate the annual yearly body style changes. Ford hot rods are of full frame design. Hope it helps and I'm sure somebody is going to clarify this even more. Good luck with your builds and have a nice day

Paweł

 

Thanks for the good info and clarification, Pawel; I think I know what you mean, although I wonder if any actual "muscle cars" were unibody designs--if I had to guess, I would think they're all full-frame, don't you think? What about the examples that JT posted? Full frame, right? Smile

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Sunday, November 8, 2015 4:12 PM

Well, Karl - not really! It's kinda surprising for me, too, because I was taught in America the full frame ruled - but looking at the pics you don't really see frame rails going all the way from front to the rear (sometimes getting much wider ore more narrow in the middle). What I see in those pics are channels formed from the sheet metal being part of the floor plate and the rest of the body - so that's unibody design. In the first picture I see a subframe for mounting the front suspension.

Here's Cadillac Eldorado frame:

'58 Cadillac Eldorado frame

I've also found this picture - '70 Baracuda - looks like full frame to me:

'70 Plymouth Barracuda

I hope it helps you - good luck and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: East Bethel, MN
Posted by midnightprowler on Sunday, November 8, 2015 5:25 PM

Mopar's muscle cars are all unibody.

Hi, I am Lee, I am a plastiholic.

Co. A, 682 Engineers, Ltchfield, MN, 1980-1986

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 1 Corinthians 15:51-54

Ask me about Speedway Decals

  • Member since
    March 2003
Posted by rangerj on Sunday, November 8, 2015 7:53 PM

There is a TV series called "Graveyard Carz" and the shop that is the subject of the series is dedicated to the restoration of MoPar carz. They detail the restoration to the Nth degree. For example they will put a dab of paint on the trans or the rear axel where one would have been placed when the car was manufactured. These are witness marks if you will (my term). These marks tell the next assembler that the job prior to his or hers was DONE. They also would tell an inspector that the job was done. The color of the dab might also tell the  person what ratio rear end was put in or what transmission was put in and this should agree with the order for the car. Back in the sixties the cars were painted by humans, and not yet by robots, so that the underbody would get overspray on it, but the car was not painted underneath. Certain areas were "undercoated", such as the wheel wells, but not the entire underside of the car.

As for muscle cars all being built with frames or chassies, this is not the case. The Barracuda was unit body as was the Chevy Nova SS, and the Camero, and the Mustang, as well as the AMX. The Chevell had a frame under it at least up to 1967. I have a 1967 Chevell SS 396 and a 68 Camero SS living next door to me. My 66 Mustang 2+2 was unit body as were my 68, 69, and 70 AMXs. I fairly certain my 69 Dodge Charger was unit body. E-gad I wish I had kept some of these cars.  I had a 64 Studabaker Avanti that was fiberglass body and a full frame, like the Corvettes. That was supercharged with a paxton blower. That was a great car. IIRC the other term for "unit body" is monocoque  - (spelling) pronounced mono-***. European manufacturers were doing this for decades before the U.S. auto makers.

Many "muscle-car" folks will detail the underside of the car and paint it as a way of detering corrosion and give it a more complete appearance. Most "muscle -car" restorations are not being done for "concourse de elegance" competition so that variation from "original factory finish" is generally acceptable.

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Monday, November 9, 2015 7:13 AM

Pawel

Well, Karl - not really! It's kinda surprising for me, too, because I was taught in America the full frame ruled - but looking at the pics you don't really see frame rails going all the way from front to the rear (sometimes getting much wider ore more narrow in the middle). What I see in those pics are channels formed from the sheet metal being part of the floor plate and the rest of the body - so that's unibody design. In the first picture I see a subframe for mounting the front suspension.

 

I hope it helps you - good luck and have a nice day

Paweł

Pawel, that's an excellent observation, and I believe you're absolutely right. It seems that the "frames" are just extruded forms pressed into the metal. Awesome. Good eyes, and a great contribution to the thread! Have a grreat day yourself!

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Monday, November 9, 2015 7:14 AM

midnightprowler

Mopar's muscle cars are all unibody.

 

Hmmph, interesting. I didn't know that. Big Smile

Cool to know! Thanks for weighing in, Lee!

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Monday, November 9, 2015 7:25 AM

rangerj

There is a TV series called "Graveyard Carz" and the shop that is the subject of the series is dedicated to the restoration of MoPar carz. They detail the restoration to the Nth degree. For example they will put a dab of paint on the trans or the rear axel where one would have been placed when the car was manufactured. These are witness marks if you will (my term). These marks tell the next assembler that the job prior to his or hers was DONE. They also would tell an inspector that the job was done. The color of the dab might also tell the  person what ratio rear end was put in or what transmission was put in and this should agree with the order for the car. Back in the sixties the cars were painted by humans, and not yet by robots, so that the underbody would get overspray on it, but the car was not painted underneath. Certain areas were "undercoated", such as the wheel wells, but not the entire underside of the car.

As for muscle cars all being built with frames or chassies, this is not the case. The Barracuda was unit body as was the Chevy Nova SS, and the Camero, and the Mustang, as well as the AMX. The Chevell had a frame under it at least up to 1967. I have a 1967 Chevell SS 396 and a 68 Camero SS living next door to me. My 66 Mustang 2+2 was unit body as were my 68, 69, and 70 AMXs. I fairly certain my 69 Dodge Charger was unit body. E-gad I wish I had kept some of these cars.  I had a 64 Studabaker Avanti that was fiberglass body and a full frame, like the Corvettes. That was supercharged with a paxton blower. That was a great car. IIRC the other term for "unit body" is monocoque  - (spelling) pronounced mono-***. European manufacturers were doing this for decades before the U.S. auto makers.

Many "muscle-car" folks will detail the underside of the car and paint it as a way of detering corrosion and give it a more complete appearance. Most "muscle -car" restorations are not being done for "concourse de elegance" competition so that variation from "original factory finish" is generally acceptable.

 

Testify, Sir!! Cool info, Ranger J!

THanks for the personal recollections, and I'm officially jealous of your car history! Nothing like mine with two Chevettes, a Pontiac T-1000, and an assorted Accord and rusty pickup thrown in, Sad lol. Gotta admit, I wish I had that Chevette now...haha..

Thanks again---GREAT info! This is turning into a great reference/information thread! Keep 'em coming, if anyone has anything more! Here's some cool pics I found from the internet of a Daytona undercarriage:

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Corpus Christi, Tx
Posted by mustang1989 on Monday, November 9, 2015 12:17 PM

This subject came up in Model Car Magazine forum a while back and I thought I remembered either stumbling onto it or somebody else pointing it out. Anyways I thought maybe I'd share the information. It's a good read with some good references in it, in particular the one's by the administrator Harry P.

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/46976-69-dodge-charger-chassis-color/#comment-505224

                   

 Forum | Modelers Social Club Forum (proboards.com) 

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Monday, November 9, 2015 12:49 PM

mustang1989

This subject came up in Model Car Magazine forum a while back and I thought I remembered either stumbling onto it or somebody else pointing it out. Anyways I thought maybe I'd share the information. It's a good read with some good references in it, in particular the one's by the administrator Harry P.

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/46976-69-dodge-charger-chassis-color/#comment-505224

 

 

Wow, another really awesome source of info and pics!

Thanks, Joe! Much appreciated!!

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Corpus Christi, Tx
Posted by mustang1989 on Monday, November 9, 2015 1:30 PM

No problem brutha.Cool

                   

 Forum | Modelers Social Club Forum (proboards.com) 

  • Member since
    March 2003
Posted by rangerj on Monday, November 9, 2015 6:26 PM

Chevy Chevette! Google "Grumpy's Toy".  One of Grumpy Jenkins "toys" was a Chevy Vega.  I was lucky to be driving when the muscle car craze happened and I have been "car crazy" ever since. Less than a month ago I sold the Dodge Charger that I have owned for over 30 years. Don't tell the wife that I'm looking for a 36 or 37 Lincoln Zepher. Keep up the great build. Personally I like the Mopar color "plumb crazy" on the old Chalengers and Chargers. Visit the Graveyard Carz web site. There may be some helpful info there for you.

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