Question about the engine in the Charger 500

the doog wrote:

Was it orange, or light blue? I'm using the stock engine set-up with one carb and the circular air cleaner. Thanks!

OK, if the engine has one carb the color will be an aqua color with a matte black air cleaner. Original distributor caps were black as well as the wires. There was writing on the air cleaner top denoting the engine size. All multi carb engines are orange except for a small handfull of kinda rare engines (343hp. 383, 390 hp 413, and some engines that came with radical cross rams built in the very early sixties).

    But to add even more confusion, let us drop back to the fifties a minute. Those motors that had two four barrels were painted black if my memory is right (have not seen one since the sixties), and the air cleaners were gold in color. Chrysler built many engines with two four barrel carbs back then.

gary

Thanks so much Gary--I ought to just forgo the postings and email you directly. Geez, man!--you DO know your stuff! I'm impressed!

OK, so I'll be repainting it blue then ....say, where do you get your info from? It's gotta come first-hand I woud suspect? What do you own, a resto-shop or something?

I'll get those pics found later today; been in the studio most of the day....

Hey--what about the (tranny?) cases behind the engine itself--engine color, or metallic grey? 

the doog wrote:

Thanks so much Gary--I ought to just forgo the postings and email you directly. Geez, man!--you DO know your stuff! I'm impressed! OK, so I'll be repainting it blue then ....say, where do you get your info from? It's gotta come first-hand I woud suspect? What do you own, a resto-shop or something? I'll get those pics found later today; been in the studio most of the day.... Hey--what about the (tranny?) cases behind the engine itself--engine color, or metallic grey?

the automatics were just bare aluminum, but the four speeds were pretty much black with a hint of rust highlites. Shift linkage will be gold color or silver with a chrome handle. The clutch linkage was always painted black.

    I used to own a race hemi back in the day. One of our buddies was the guy who invented the twin plug head for hemis, and the factory later adapted it. Once you've owned one you're sorta stuck with them as nothing else will ever do again. The funny thing now is that a lot of folks want one, but have no idea how to make one run. All they know how to do is to bolt on a bunch of parts that might and might not work. Sad thing is that a 16 year old kid with a set of wrenches can make 750hp without ever working up a sweat!

    In the studio? I'm assuming your doing a recording session or down mixing. Right? I know a lot of musicians from all over the place.

gary

WOw, GAry--coool beans; I can see where your vast knowledge of details comes from--that's way cool! Thanks for the info! I'm about as informed about cars as I am about nuclear reactors! LOL!

For instance--"clutch linkage"? "Shift inkage"?---clueless, believe it or not!

Now, I can tell you how to replace the power valve, balance a crankshaft, or re-jet a carburetor in a motorcycle pretty well, but when it comes to cars, I own Chevettes, and an Accord beater before I switched to trucks to carry my dirt bikes! And I still don't work on them--no garage makes it kinda hard! (I rent!)

I've been finishing up a single that my band is giving away to fans who have bought tickets to our Festival in Europe on July 9-12. It's called the "Magic Circle Music Festival". We headline Friday and Saturday nights, in Bad Arolsen, Germany. I leave here in about 9 days. I think you can google it?

the doog wrote:

WOw, GAry--coool beans; I can see where your vast knowledge of details comes from--that's way cool! Thanks for the info! I'm about as informed about cars as I am about nuclear reactors! LOL! For instance--"clutch linkage"? "Shift inkage"?---clueless, believe it or not! Now, I can tell you how to replace the power valve, balance a crankshaft, or re-jet a carburetor in a motorcycle pretty well, but when it comes to cars, I own Chevettes, and an Accord beater before I switched to trucks to carry my dirt bikes! And I still don't work on them--no garage makes it kinda hard! (I rent!) I've been finishing up a single that my band is giving away to fans who have bought tickets to our Festival in Europe on July 9-12. It's called the "Magic Circle Music Festival". We headline Friday and Saturday nights, in Bad Arolsen, Germany. I leave here in about 9 days. I think you can google it?

I was really the oddball in my family in that I owned a hemi car. Everybody else was into wedges. We've been thru various stroker motors and what now seems like an endless stream of multi carb setups (I was raised in the one carb is crude & boring group). I was lucky enough to be in the middle stages of drag racing before the big guys fixed it to make more money. My brother was the kid who smoked the Hot Rod Magazine project car back in 1969 (they laughed about it afterwards till they found out how simple his setup was).

    Right now I'm looking for a couple 27 Ford bodies for a pair of projects in the future. One is a rear engined Bonneville modified roadster powered by a Donovan 417. The other will be a sordid copy of my old 27 Ford rat rod. I aso have two other Bonneville projects in the works (still rounding up the parts). One will be a blown 32 Ford, and the other will be a 34 Ford with a 497" blown hemi to run in A fuel roadster at Bonneville (can you tell where my heart's at?) Anybody here want to try a Bonneville group build some day? Cars must meet the rule books, and better yet must be a model of a real car that ran at Bonneville (there's everything from bikes to streamliners [even steam driven]). Goto the SCTA website and see what they brung.

    Onto music; I listen to about everything but polka music. But my hearts into acoustic jazz and Russian Classical. My current collection is about 2,000 LP's and close to a thousand CD's.

gary

Although with Chrysler Co you oculd use either or.  AS did happen sometimes back then sometimes supplies were not abundant enough.  While some people may shut downan entire factory because you run out of the color of paint for the engine, Chrysler is smart enough to NOT stop the assembly line until new paint comes in, they would just switch to the other color.  This did happejn on several occasions, so going either color would be historically accurate if not prototypically accurate.  Similar things happened in GM plants.  Youhad Chevy Engine Orange and then a blue used on Buicks and such.  Also don't forget customer special orders as well, although I am not aware of any specific cases.  I wouldn't want an orange engine in a blue car, it'd look funny.

What kind of music do you play?  If it's metal or country I'm interested.  I myself I play metal on my guitar, sing country, and as for the keyboard, just whatever.

fantacmet wrote:

Although with Chrysler Co you oculd use either or.  AS did happen sometimes back then sometimes supplies were not abundant enough.  While some people may shut downan entire factory because you run out of the color of paint for the engine, Chrysler is smart enough to NOT stop the assembly line until new paint comes in, they would just switch to the other color.  This did happejn on several occasions, so going either color would be historically accurate if not prototypically accurate.  Similar things happened in GM plants.  Youhad Chevy Engine Orange and then a blue used on Buicks and such.  Also don't forget customer special orders as well, although I am not aware of any specific cases.  I wouldn't want an orange engine in a blue car, it'd look funny. I've never seen a muticarb Chrysler engine that was painted orange, and I've seen hundreds of them. Single carb engines (except for hemis and NASCAR wedges) were always the aqua color. Might add here that most NASCAR motors used painted valve covers that were the same orange color when shipped from the factory. Race car engines and multi carb engines were not normally built on the same assembly lines as the standard engines (there were exceptions here and there), and paint was never an issue here. Orange became the standard with the 413 max wedge engines in 1962, and Chrysler actually ran an add campaign called "the orange monster." Tobe exact the only multi carb engines painted in aqua were made in 1962 & 1963 and earlier (343 hp, 383 for one). The vast majority of these were installed in the 300 letter series cars sold by Chrysler. All the early hemis I've seen were painted in black. gary gary What kind of music do you play?  If it's metal or country I'm interested.  I myself I play metal on my guitar, sing country, and as for the keyboard, just whatever.

I play Heavy Metal professionally, but in "real life" I play all kinds of music--a good song is a good song, period, and I don't really restrict my interests! I don't really sing--only to my girl, Jenn!

Interesting info about the engine possibilities there, fantacmet--thanks for the input! I have decided to go with the blue--mixed some up and shot it yestrday!  

When I can find the disc again and get it cleaned up, I'll have to rip it, but it's from a band that nevre really got off the ground, they broke up before then.  However they did get 3 songs recorded,and it's stuff you'll find nowhere, but it's really good.  I'll have to send you the songs.  I was supposed to be doing promotional work for them, for a percentage but they broke up.  Oh well.  I've been in a couple bands myself.  One could never find all the peopel it needed, and the other one was plagued because the guitarist and drummer were a married couple, with drama issues.  Oh well.  I've since sold off all my big gear.  My studio equipment, and now just have a practice amp I built from a cheapo Squire, and I have 2 guitars and a yamaha keyboardf, and that's it.  Although I do have a very good friend who owns one of the top music stores in the state.  Too bad you live far away I'd love to do a jam session with ya.

As for the model.  PICTURES PLEASE!  I've kind of gotten inspired to build a dodge again and am working on my 67 GTX now, and am getting ready to start working on my Charger Daytona again, which is partially done.  I don't remember which issue it was in, but it's a Scale Auto Issue(try asking Aaron Skinner he can find out which issue), and you can get the back issue or just the article, but it is a complete detailed buildup of Erevell's Dart GTS.  It's amazing how easy it is to add details to these Dodge kits and make them look great.

I do have one tip for you, to help in the detailing arena, and it only works on the old dodges just because of the design of the alternators.  On the 1:1 cars you can see right through the ribs, and see the red enamal coated wires inside.  Take an ultrafine brush, and some Tamiya or Testors clear red, and paint in between each of those ribs.  It makes a WORLD of difference just that one detail and helps to make it pop.  It makes it look like you shrunk a real alternator down to scale and bolted it on.  Very simple, and easy technique to make the engine lookmore detailed then it is.

Thanks fantacmet--I'll try to get some pics when I have something worth photographing--it's reallt in it's infancy right now....I'm going to work on it through the day...

I'm not sure what you mean about the alternators--"ribs"?!? What--you mean where the wires connect into it? By the time I connect wires to it, I'm not sure there'll be room to see much at all in there?

I'm also trying to add headrests to the seats as well.

What fantacmet would have been referring to is the ability to see the enamelled copper windings through the cooling openings that are in the case of the alternator. Some manufacturers, such as GM, didn't provide cooling openings, but rather had sealed cases. This is an aftermarket part...but you'll get the idea...

Hope that helps...I'm looking forward to seeing the build...

EXCELLLENT, caSSius!!!!!!

Thanks for clarifying that!!!

the doog wrote:

I play Heavy Metal professionally, but in "real life" I play all kinds of music--a good song is a good song, period, and I don't really restrict my interests! I don't really sing--only to my girl, Jenn! Interesting info about the engine possibilities there, fantacmet--thanks for the input! I have decided to go with the blue--mixed some up and shot it yestrday!

I played drums for several years, and just kinda grew out of them. I did pick up some sticks about a year ago, and played thru a couple tunes over at a close friend's place. He's a professional drummer with his own jazz quartet. Was told "not to quit my day job!" If I was young again, it would have been the tenor sax or keyboards (even though I have small hands). About five years ago I was on a search for a good used baby grand piano, but gave up on it after I realized it just was not a good fit in my living room.

    When I was a kid we heard about this guy playing out on the westside of Indy that had a completely unique style of play. So we hitch hiked over there to check him out. Snuck in the back door and listened to the guy do unique chords one right after another like there was no end in sight. His side man was a Hammond B3 player that was equally as good. So who was he? Wes Montgomery playing with Mel Rhyne. I later became friends with Rhyne (regarded as the best B3 player anywhere by his peers). Another good guitar player I listened to was the late Albert King. Played a Stingray with four pickups on it. I can still remember the stunned look in the audience when he and his brother walked out on stage in starched bibs and a white shirt and tie. About ten bars later the place was goping nuts! Allman is still one of my alltime favorites (saw in live at the Fillmore).

gary

fantacmet wrote:

When I can find the disc again and get it cleaned up, I'll have to rip it, but it's from a band that nevre really got off the ground, they broke up before then.  However they did get 3 songs recorded,and it's stuff you'll find nowhere, but it's really good.  I'll have to send you the songs.  I was supposed to be doing promotional work for them, for a percentage but they broke up.  Oh well.  I've been in a couple bands myself.  One could never find all the peopel it needed, and the other one was plagued because the guitarist and drummer were a married couple, with drama issues.  Oh well.  I've since sold off all my big gear.  My studio equipment, and now just have a practice amp I built from a cheapo Squire, and I have 2 guitars and a yamaha keyboardf, and that's it.  Although I do have a very good friend who owns one of the top music stores in the state.  Too bad you live far away I'd love to do a jam session with ya.   As for the model.  PICTURES PLEASE!  I've kind of gotten inspired to build a dodge again and am working on my 67 GTX now, and am getting ready to start working on my Charger Daytona again, which is partially done.  I don't remember which issue it was in, but it's a Scale Auto Issue(try asking Aaron Skinner he can find out which issue), and you can get the back issue or just the article, but it is a complete detailed buildup of Erevell's Dart GTS.  It's amazing how easy it is to add details to these Dodge kits and make them look great. I do have one tip for you, to help in the detailing arena, and it only works on the old dodges just because of the design of the alternators.  On the 1:1 cars you can see right through the ribs, and see the red enamal coated wires inside.  Take an ultrafine brush, and some Tamiya or Testors clear red, and paint in between each of those ribs.  It makes a WORLD of difference just that one detail and helps to make it pop.  It makes it look like you shrunk a real alternator down to scale and bolted it on.  Very simple, and easy technique to make the engine lookmore detailed then it is.

If you got a Dodge or a Plymouth two door hardtop hemi car; why not build an SS/B car? These were specially built to compete in SS/B for two or three years (before NHRA factored them out). Basicly a street hemi on steroids! Everyone I've seen was in white with a blue interior. Used superstock springs, 3705 carbs and an Isky 550 cam. The intake looks the same as a street hemi on the outside, but it's alittle different on the inside and makes about twenty more horsepower above 7,000 rpm. Most were changed over to "rat roasters" from Eldebrock, and a few also used Stahl 180 degree headers. A good engine would dyno out at 700 hp., and many were in the 775 hp range. I had a buddy who had one that he drove around town! That's pretty much the same setup I used, but I went with a set of Racer's rollers and different headers with and even more modded intake than the factory one was. I have a hemi GTX kit, and may build one myself.

gary

Hah ribs, I was SOOOO tired when I wrote that.  It's actually the recesses around the outside of the alternator you paint into with the transparent red.  You cana slo use a toothpick to paint in those recesses.

Squeakie as for my GTX, it's a 67, and I was just gonna do it pretty much as a bone stock car with some wheels and tires on it, maybe a part here or there.  Something a highschool kid might drive back in the day.

fantacmet wrote:

Hah ribs, I was SOOOO tired when I wrote that.  It's actually the recesses around the outside of the alternator you paint into with the transparent red.  You cana slo use a toothpick to paint in those recesses.   Squeakie as for my GTX, it's a 67, and I was just gonna do it pretty much as a bone stock car with some wheels and tires on it, maybe a part here or there.  Something a highschool kid might drive back in the day.

back then a 67 GTX was what every kid on the planet wanted. They were fast, and about the only thing that'd run with one in 1967 was a hemi GTX. But the real killer car on the street (for a factory stock car) was either a 1962 343 hp Plymouth, or a 350hp 1966 Nova. I'd put my money everytime on the Plymouth. With a 3350 lb. shipping weight your talking about the same weight as a Corvette with better suspension and about fifty more horsepower. But then they're kinda rare. I had the chance to buy a Dodge with the same engine package once, and should have.

gary

fantacmet wrote:

Hah ribs, I was SOOOO tired when I wrote that.  It's actually the recesses around the outside of the alternator you paint into with the transparent red.  You cana slo use a toothpick to paint in those recesses.

I found an interesting chart listing the factory colors for MOPAR engines from 1960 - 1973.

May not be completely accurate, but it is from a decent source.

http://www.turbinecar.com/misc/enginecolor.htm

squeakie wrote:

the doog wrote: I play Heavy Metal professionally, but in "real life" I play all kinds of music--a good song is a good song, period, and I don't really restrict my interests! I don't really sing--only to my girl, Jenn! Interesting info about the engine possibilities there, fantacmet--thanks for the input! I have decided to go with the blue--mixed some up and shot it yestrday!   I played drums for several years, and just kinda grew out of them. I did pick up some sticks about a year ago, and played thru a couple tunes over at a close friend's place. He's a professional drummer with his own jazz quartet. Was told "not to quit my day job!" If I was young again, it would have been the tenor sax or keyboards (even though I have small hands). About five years ago I was on a search for a good used baby grand piano, but gave up on it after I realized it just was not a good fit in my living room.     When I was a kid we heard about this guy playing out on the westside of Indy that had a completely unique style of play. So we hitch hiked over there to check him out. Snuck in the back door and listened to the guy do unique chords one right after another like there was no end in sight. His side man was a Hammond B3 player that was equally as good. So who was he? Wes Montgomery playing with Mel Rhyne. I later became friends with Rhyne (regarded as the best B3 player anywhere by his peers). Another good guitar player I listened to was the late Albert King. Played a Stingray with four pickups on it. I can still remember the stunned look in the audience when he and his brother walked out on stage in starched bibs and a white shirt and tie. About ten bars later the place was goping nuts! Allman is still one of my alltime favorites (saw in live at the Fillmore). gary

mojodoctor wrote:

I found an interesting chart listing the factory colors for MOPAR engines from 1960 - 1973. May not be completely accurate, but it is from a decent source.   http://www.turbinecar.com/misc/enginecolor.htm

saw several errors in the chart. Never saw a red anything, and I used to own a 273 A block engine (the high performance one) in a 65 Dart. Seems like it might have been black. High performance 383's were always aqua (or whatever you want to call it) if they were with one carb. All 413's, 426 wedges, and 440's with one carb are aqua (even the ones in a GTX). I do think slant sixes may have been black except for the alloy blocked ones (I've only seen two), and they were not painted. I think early hemis may have been painted black as well as multi carbed engines built in the fifties (air cleaners were gold anadized (brother had a Desoto with two fours). The one I just can't remember is what color the 300F and 300G's were. I'm thinking black as well (these had the long ram intakes that had the carbs setting over the valve covers). There was a 383 with two fours built in 1962 that was painted orange, and there also was a 413 with inline two fours painted orange. These were in Chryslers, but were really not a true high performance engine even though they were rated at 390hp. All engines in Roadrunners, GTX's, R/T's, Chargers,etc were painted aqua if they had one carb (I do happen to have a photo of a factory fresh engine in a 68 Roadrunner to document this. But then again the above cars with multi carbs were painted orange (it's the same can of paint from 1962 till who knows when). Cannot vouch for all LA blocks (an A block was out of production in 1963), so red maybe right for them (340's were orange and that's an LA block). Now there were also a series of 413's and 383's built prior to 1962 that had cross rams (long rams), but were installed in Dodges under the D500 badge (also D501). I think these might have been painted in black as well (I've only seen two, and that's been eons ago). As best I can figure Chrysler just changed the name of the paint when the called it Hemi Orange cause it's the same stuff that's on a max wedge. I don't know who made that color chart, but he must drive Chevys cause anybody that's into Mopars knows this.

gary

the doog wrote:

Gary, you're just a Mopar-encyclopedia! Great info! Thanks for that input as well!

Lived and breathed them for years. Funny thing now is that I drive two Chevys, but if I want to go fast I think Dodge.

    Which brings into another small problem. I'm trying to find a junked 1964 Plymouth kit. All I need is the hood, and bumpers, as I have everything thing else I need but one part. I have a Dodge kit to use for most of the parts except for the bumpers and hood, so if anybody's got a body they don't want let me know.

gary

the doog wrote:

Hey guys--I'm off to Germany to work for three weeks--see you when I get back! The Charger is coming along pretty fine, by the way! Thanks again for all your help and info!

good luck and wear your ear plugs

gary

Old mopar guy here.  It depends what engine you are using basically, not necessarily how it was equipped.  If you are working on the AMT/MPC 69 Charger 500 and using the engine from the kit, that is a 426 Hemi and in all cases they are to be painted Chrysler Engine Orange (Hemi orange, Chevrolet Engine Red in Model Master paints is very close, or obtain some actual engine paint from like the Eastwood Company)  The stock street Hemi would use the dual carbs too, incidentally, with the round air cleaner.  The Nascar versions of this engine were single carb, however, still painted Orange.  If you are swapping in the available 440 Magnum however, some of the early runs were in the Chrysler equipment blue color but by and large all post 1968 Chrysler Hi-performance Big Blocks, 383 Magnum, 440 Magnum, 426 Hemi were painted Orange through 1971, and I repeat, all 426 Hemis were painted orange.

I hope this helps or that I haven't made you go back and repaint again.

Dave Bayer

UnderdogF7U wrote:

Old mopar guy here.  It depends what engine you are using basically, not necessarily how it was equipped.  If you are working on the AMT/MPC 69 Charger 500 and using the engine from the kit, that is a 426 Hemi and in all cases they are to be painted Chrysler Engine Orange (Hemi orange, Chevrolet Engine Red in Model Master paints is very close, or obtain some actual engine paint from like the Eastwood Company)  The stock street Hemi would use the dual carbs too, incidentally, with the round air cleaner.  The Nascar versions of this engine were single carb, however, still painted Orange.  If you are swapping in the available 440 Magnum however, some of the early runs were in the Chrysler equipment blue color but by and large all post 1968 Chrysler Hi-performance Big Blocks, 383 Magnum, 440 Magnum, 426 Hemi were painted Orange through 1971, and I repeat, all 426 Hemis were painted orange. I hope this helps or that I haven't made you go back and repaint again. Dave Bayer

Gary,  Hope being a new guy here I'm not stepping on any toes.  Really with cars, unless you're a factory stock replica builder anyway, whatever looks nice to you you should do, so more power to you all.  But I've not only been a lifelong mopar model builder, I'm also a life long Mopar owner and attender and participant at many Mopar car shows. 

Because of that, I can say that there were many just plain red painted mopar engines over the years from the factory.  The original A Block 273's which eventually morphed into 318, 340 and 360 LAs were red most definately.  So were the original 318's, the polyspherical head ones used mainly in Plymouths up from the mid 50's to 1966.  There were a few other sizes of them earlier as well and they were used some in Dodges too.  The early Plymouth versions of them, used mainly in Furies, used Gold Valve Covers and Aircleaners to throw in a further wrinkle.  I think you are right on the early ,50's Hemis generally having black painted blocks and different colored valve covers and aircleaners at different times.  Come around 1960 though the standard color for nearly everything in V8s was that turquoisy blue with the exeception of the heretofore mentioned 273, and also I believe the Slant 6's of that era were red until becoming black in the later days.  Then around 1967 the more true Chrysler blue came out for all V8's and continued til the end times when many of those, largelly 318 LAs became black.  This included the high performance engines through 1968 and the other "High Performance" engines such as the Police Package engines on into the 70's.  But the magnum or commando engines starting in 1969 until their demise were orange and very close to Chevy Engine Red or Orange (Hemi Orange)and that included the 340s, 383s, 440s and Hemis through 1971. After the death knell of the musclecar, engines like the 360 and 400, bored out 340s and 383s respectively were blue.

Of critical note in this thread however, all 426 Hemis were painted orange no matter what and all 426 street hemis used dual carbs.  The Nascar versions were limited to just 1 4 bbl. except for a very brief period in 1968 when dual carbs were available there too.

The engine in the Charger 500 kit is a 426 Hemi and should be painted orange with 2 4 bbls to be factory correct.

Thanks for listening everbody.  I know its easy to forget sometimes and I didn't state everything above either.  But that which I did, I do remember and is correct.

Dave Bayer

Jeebus wrote:

squeakie wrote:  the doog wrote: I play Heavy Metal professionally, but in "real life" I play all kinds of music--a good song is a good song, period, and I don't really restrict my interests! I don't really sing--only to my girl, Jenn! Interesting info about the engine possibilities there, fantacmet--thanks for the input! I have decided to go with the blue--mixed some up and shot it yestrday!   I played drums for several years, and just kinda grew out of them. I did pick up some sticks about a year ago, and played thru a couple tunes over at a close friend's place. He's a professional drummer with his own jazz quartet. Was told "not to quit my day job!" If I was young again, it would have been the tenor sax or keyboards (even though I have small hands). About five years ago I was on a search for a good used baby grand piano, but gave up on it after I realized it just was not a good fit in my living room.     When I was a kid we heard about this guy playing out on the westside of Indy that had a completely unique style of play. So we hitch hiked over there to check him out. Snuck in the back door and listened to the guy do unique chords one right after another like there was no end in sight. His side man was a Hammond B3 player that was equally as good. So who was he? Wes Montgomery playing with Mel Rhyne. I later became friends with Rhyne (regarded as the best B3 player anywhere by his peers). Another good guitar player I listened to was the late Albert King. Played a Stingray with four pickups on it. I can still remember the stunned look in the audience when he and his brother walked out on stage in starched bibs and a white shirt and tie. About ten bars later the place was goping nuts! Allman is still one of my alltime favorites (saw in live at the Fillmore). gary Was that at the Filmore East or West.

somebody gave me a ticket to this place in NYC. Bought a plane ticket for $69, and gacve a taxie driver $20 to get me there and be there when the show ended. Yes it was The Fillmore East for one of the middle days of that five day concert series.

gary