Question about the engine in the Charger 500

UnderdogF7U wrote:

Hello all,  Back to our favorite thread.  I am trying to learn how to post better pictures and am here sending a photo of a Hemi Cuda I built a year or two ago that recently won a show at a Hobbytown USA show in Oshkosh.  Let me know how it works. Squeakie still wondering about your address to send you your little package.  I have a 63 Plymouth about ready to take the manifold and headers you said you'd send out.  If you need the address again let me know. Dave

glad you painted it that color of bronze! There were two colors offered in 69 and I think 70 as well. I much prefered the darker of the two like yours. My 69 hemi roadrunner was also painted that color as well, but with the tan interior.

   Have not forgot you on the engine parts, and have the kits laid out to clip off the pieces. I'm now convinced that I'm missing two kits instead of one! I guess maybe I need to head over to my youngest son's place as a repo man! Also been real busy helping assemble a half dozen 470" motors built on 383" blocks, and one 528" bumper dragger.

gary

Hello all,  Back to our favorite thread.  I am trying to learn how to post better pictures and am here sending a photo of a Hemi Cuda I built a year or two ago that recently won a show at a Hobbytown USA show in Oshkosh.  Let me know how it works.

Squeakie still wondering about your address to send you your little package.  I have a 63 Plymouth about ready to take the manifold and headers you said you'd send out.  If you need the address again let me know.

Dave

UnderdogF7U wrote:

Sounds good Gary.  I'll be looking for it.  I think what I'll do maybe is restrip my 63 Fury, remove the side trim and do a Petty or possibly even Norm Nelson Stock Car.  No one will have probably ever seen such a thing. Might go for an MCW body too, not sure yet. Anyway, no, I didn't get your email.  Here is my address again:  because917@yahoo.com  maybe you should just try a plain ol email to there.  I really do want to send you something in return, I have these good fenderwell headers and some goodies, but I still don't have your mailing address. thanks again Gary and have a good evening.  Oh, and PS, I do have a mint Johan 69 AMX Super Stocker.  If you have a photo of your old 1/1 car, that might just give me some ideas! Dave B.

My old AMX was just red with white racing stripes. No painted bumpers or anything like that. Even the interior was basic black. Mine was not a factory type super stock AMX. No such luck!

gary

Sounds good Gary.  I'll be looking for it.  I think what I'll do maybe is restrip my 63 Fury, remove the side trim and do a Petty or possibly even Norm Nelson Stock Car.  No one will have probably ever seen such a thing. Might go for an MCW body too, not sure yet.

Anyway, no, I didn't get your email.  Here is my address again:  because917@yahoo.com 

maybe you should just try a plain ol email to there.  I really do want to send you something in return, I have these good fenderwell headers and some goodies, but I still don't have your mailing address.

thanks again Gary and have a good evening. 

Oh, and PS, I do have a mint Johan 69 AMX Super Stocker.  If you have a photo of your old 1/1 car, that might just give me some ideas!

Dave B.

UnderdogF7U wrote:

Once again Gary, Thanks.  The Doog is right about your encyclopidic knowledge or our favorite marque.   I know quite a bit.  I'm going to estimate your knowledge is about 3 times that. Thanks too for the commiseration on the photo posting.  They really seem to encourage that on the Johan resurrected forum and on the Scale Auto side it seems like, but not so much here I guess. At any rate, is the open plenum style manifold then similar to the one you are sending with the tri y headers or a different animal.  I'm really interested in that and starting that rare early type of stock car. Not too many photos to be found on the net it doesn't seem like, for 63 on back.   I really appreciate yours and everyone's interest here, our friend Doog too. This was a hard week.  I'm an assistant DA here in Kenosha, I'm proud and unafraid to say out loud, but this last few weeks, between Defense attorneys who don't have a clue, people who seemed to go into overdrive on committing crimes, many drug related, 60 hours of work which only reduced my pile of files about 1/3 and a case of colitis kind of burned me out this time. Still looking forward, Gary / Squeaky to sending off your little package of the headers and a few other goodies, so send that address off to me on PM. Talk to you soon. Dave B.

I guess you didn't get my email. The picture on the box shows the factory cast iron "tri-y" headers that only came on NASCAR wedge engines from mid 1963 till the advent of the late hemi. But the headers they have in the kit are custom tube headers. They didn't even include the OEM Ramcharger cast iron headers! But on the other hand it's not hard to convert the tube headers into "try-y's." I'm gonna send them anyway with a note on what todo. The "open plenum torque box" sorta looks like the cross ram used on hemis, but is actually smaller. Has one carb that sets in a recessed spot in the middle. The intake actually didn't make anymore power the the one before, but was a true torque monster at a higher than normal rpm range. It was a real pain to work with so I've been told and near impossible to jet right. This intake looks a lot like the Eldebrock cross rams they used to make, but is much different inside.

    I raced Plymouths for several years, and would go back if it were not for NHRA. Then I drove an AMX, and there was a new game of fun in town (it's a rush like you've never had bounching the front wheels going into third gear). I wanted a superstock AMX so bad that I couldn't stand it! Those cars are about the fastest superstockers on the planet except for a full tilt race hemi.

    When it comes to Mopars and I don't really know the answer for sure I just forward the question to my brother. If he dosn't know, he knows who does know (which is kinda rare for him not to know). He builds engines for people all over the country, and is pretty well known in those circles. His latest thing is building 470" motors that drag bumpers for a hundred fifty feet, and don't break. Kinda funny how he evolves in that it seems like a year ago he was building 528" motors all the time, and then he comes upwith a new combo and puts one together for somebody to test. Karl's seen a couple of his motors in his cars.

gary

Once again Gary, Thanks.  The Doog is right about your encyclopidic knowledge or our favorite marque.   I know quite a bit.  I'm going to estimate your knowledge is about 3 times that.

Thanks too for the commiseration on the photo posting.  They really seem to encourage that on the Johan resurrected forum and on the Scale Auto side it seems like, but not so much here I guess.

At any rate, is the open plenum style manifold then similar to the one you are sending with the tri y headers or a different animal.  I'm really interested in that and starting that rare early type of stock car. Not too many photos to be found on the net it doesn't seem like, for 63 on back.

  I really appreciate yours and everyone's interest here, our friend Doog too. This was a hard week.  I'm an assistant DA here in Kenosha, I'm proud and unafraid to say out loud, but this last few weeks, between Defense attorneys who don't have a clue, people who seemed to go into overdrive on committing crimes, many drug related, 60 hours of work which only reduced my pile of files about 1/3 and a case of colitis kind of burned me out this time.

Still looking forward, Gary / Squeaky to sending off your little package of the headers and a few other goodies, so send that address off to me on PM.

Talk to you soon.

Dave B.

UnderdogF7U wrote:

Squeaky and Doog, If I've got this right, the answer to my questions are: I want to use Carter AFBs because this is a factory/street application, and, I might have clearance problems by substitution a higher intake manifold from another kit.  If I do, Gary / Squeaky has reminded us of the best way to do this by modifying and shortening the manifold.  The Rat Roaster name refers to the Nascar type of manifold used on Hemis raced in Nascar from sometime in 1969 on until the rulesmakers finally crippled it beyond competitiveness in their desire to bring on the age of the small block (though God knows what really was going on in their heads.) It was the bathtub or large box type looking manifold just like the cross ram for the max wedges and drag race type 426 hemis only set up for just the single 4 bbl.  In fact, this slang in certain instances spread to the cross ram on occaision.  It was, I think, intended to mean that it was just an additional improved way in which the Hemi could destroy the big block Chevy, or Rat Motor, in competition, but there might be something else at work there, another story, I don't know. So, here comes my next question:  I'm having trouble figuring how to post photos in the forum here from my pictures folder.  I found a nice picture of one of these, downloaded it to my files, but can't figure out how to upload the attachment here.  Any instructions?  Helppppp! thanks my friends. Dave B.

Dave the Nascar "tub" as some folks like to call it is really what is known as the "open plenum torque box". Which was the fore runner to several of the intakes that Eldebrock came out with later. Chrysler and Eldebrock have long had a very close working relationship thru the years. A "rat roaster" was the Eldebrock name for a special intake they built for street hemis, and yet conform to the NHRA "rules on the fly system." Or another way to say it is take care of your buddy system (Ask Warren Johnson). There were two versions made. One with the carbs inline and with a Carter bolt pattern. The other had a dual bolt pattern with the carbs slightly offset for clearence. I've worked with both of them, and both work well. With 3705 Carters off a Max Wedge and that intake your looking 40 to 50 horsepower! How much power? I'd be thinking 700hp with stock heads on 103 octane gas and a Racer Brown 72R roller (remember the post I made about ripping the seats out of the floorboard?) The intake makes power out to about 8,000 rpm. Is real hard on clutches and drive shafts. Should have named it "rat poison."

    I get a single photo to post, so don't feel bad. They just need to make it easier for the masses

gary

Squeaky and Doog,

If I've got this right, the answer to my questions are: I want to use Carter AFBs because this is a factory/street application, and, I might have clearance problems by substitution a higher intake manifold from another kit.  If I do, Gary / Squeaky has reminded us of the best way to do this by modifying and shortening the manifold. 

The Rat Roaster name refers to the Nascar type of manifold used on Hemis raced in Nascar from sometime in 1969 on until the rulesmakers finally crippled it beyond competitiveness in their desire to bring on the age of the small block (though God knows what really was going on in their heads.) It was the bathtub or large box type looking manifold just like the cross ram for the max wedges and drag race type 426 hemis only set up for just the single 4 bbl.  In fact, this slang in certain instances spread to the cross ram on occaision.  It was, I think, intended to mean that it was just an additional improved way in which the Hemi could destroy the big block Chevy, or Rat Motor, in competition, but there might be something else at work there, another story, I don't know.

So, here comes my next question:  I'm having trouble figuring how to post photos in the forum here from my pictures folder.  I found a nice picture of one of these, downloaded it to my files, but can't figure out how to upload the attachment here.  Any instructions?  Helppppp!

thanks my friends.

Dave B.

the doog wrote:

UnderdogF7U wrote: Hello all, Doog and Squeaky Gary,   I am starting work on my 69 Charger 500, this one to be the street version.... The dual quad intake manifold to me looks really shallow.  Is there a better one out there to substitute, such as the AMT Roadrunner/GTX/Super Bee or one of the 67 through 69 Revell B Bodies? Dave B. Just be careful if you add any "beefier" parts--you could have a serious issue with the hood not fitting\correctly. I had to shave mine down even more. If you display it with the air cleaner off, you may clear it ok, but if you're adding height, you're going to have an issue with clearance.

Now Doog you know I told you once before that it's a cardinal sin to leave the air cleaner base off any Mopar engine. That base is good for five to fifteen horsepower. You might be able to section the intake and maybe add a piece of .06" stock between the halves (figuring that you'll loose .03" from the saw blade alone). Street hemis came with Carters AFB's. There were actually two completely different kinds used (SS/B cars verses a regular street hemi), but even then they are identical on the outside. Race hemis use 4150 Holleys (if I remember right), and are not the dual line jobs often called double pumpers. A "rat roaster"? I wonder what that means, and who thought that name up?<g>

gary

UnderdogF7U wrote:

Hello all, Doog and Squeaky Gary,   I am starting work on my 69 Charger 500, this one to be the street version.... The dual quad intake manifold to me looks really shallow.  Is there a better one out there to substitute, such as the AMT Roadrunner/GTX/Super Bee or one of the 67 through 69 Revell B Bodies? Dave B.

Hello all, Doog and Squeaky Gary,

  I am starting work on my 69 Charger 500, this one to be the street version. The only change in the kit othet than basic clean up and addition of missing details, (ie fixing the rear valance, lic. plates, seat belts, pedals, some scratched from suspension detail, antenna, basic wirning and plumbing etc. is to put the  hemi with an automatic transmission on it from the 67 MPC Charger into it.  The kit of course is typical 60's MPC, as we all know and have spoken of many times, but certainly workable.  One thing is really bothering me though. 

The dual quad intake manifold to me looks really shallow.  Is there a better one out there to substitute, such as the AMT Roadrunner/GTX/Super Bee or one of the 67 through 69 Revell B Bodies? I want the factory in line system, not a cross ram. And, what are the right carburators for this application, Holly or Carter and where could they be found.  The ones in the kit are a choice of Dominators or actually crisply detailed but ridiculously small, Holleys or Rochester, or Stromberg?  I don't know.

Then finally, with the new set up, is it likely I'll still have hood clearance?  I'm imagining so since I've done several stock cars with a rat roaster and a medium size Holly with this or the Dukes kit and it just barely fits.  Anybody out there, feel free to join in.

Thanks.  And Gary, I still need to put an address on your package!!!!!!

Dave B.

UnderdogF7U wrote:

Gary,  Me too. I'll be 50 next year, can just remember barely, barely from actual knowledge or actually seeing a lot of what we're talking about.  Without shows, Google, Books and mags, I'd be lost though...........  Hey, why did I just walk into this room?   HMMM You know, that kind of stuff. Doog, are you having fun yet. Later. Dave B.  I was down at my brother's place over the weekend for a few minutes, and they had the Hot Rod Magazine issue on the late hemi development plus the thing they did on Eric Rickman. I remember standing near Herb McCandless' Duster while they were all working underneath it. Used to see Rickman every year at the 500 in Indy. Been awhile. gary

Gary,  Me too. I'll be 50 next year, can just remember barely, barely from actual knowledge or actually seeing a lot of what we're talking about.  Without shows, Google, Books and mags, I'd be lost though...........  Hey, why did I just walk into this room?   HMMM You know, that kind of stuff.

Doog, are you having fun yet.

Later.

Dave B. 

UnderdogF7U wrote:

Gary, I have seen the new 392 Challenger Super Stock.  It is sweeeeeeet.  Anyway, thank you for the trade.  I'll package yours up tonight too, but, I still need to know where to send it!  Talk to you soon. Dave.

I guess I forgot all about that part (I'm getting a little long in the tooth you know). Watch your email!

gary

Gary, I have seen the new 392 Challenger Super Stock.  It is sweeeeeeet.  Anyway, thank you for the trade.  I'll package yours up tonight too, but, I still need to know where to send it!  Talk to you soon.

Dave.

UnderdogF7U wrote:

In case I didn't get through Gary,  I'll take the whole 9 yards for sure.  Anything additional beyond the headers you need,  I've got numerous vintage mopar roundy round and drag parts, some factory stock stuff, the odd Ford here and there, some of which are still in full kits. Let me know and thanks for the banter.  Its a pleasure. Dave B.

you be watching for a small box in the mail. I've found the kits we need for the parts, and now all I gotta do is move about a hundred 1/48th scale airplanes to get to them.

    Lastly have you seen the new Dodge superstock Challanger yet? Has the new 392" motor in it, and appears to be a regular runner (10.4's lifting the pedal 200 ft before the traps)

gary

In case I didn't get through Gary,  I'll take the whole 9 yards for sure.  Anything additional beyond the headers you need,  I've got numerous vintage mopar roundy round and drag parts, some factory stock stuff, the odd Ford here and there, some of which are still in full kits.

Let me know and thanks for the banter.  Its a pleasure.

Dave B.

UnderdogF7U wrote:

Thanks Gary.  Did you get my address on the PM? Dave

yes I did. I was sorta waiting to see if you also wanted the cowl induction setup and the open plenum torque box intake manifold (looks like the cross ram, but with one carb). The only thing I bought the kit for was grills and bumpers and windshield.

gary

Thanks Gary.  Did you get my address on the PM?

Dave

UnderdogF7U wrote:

OK Gary, I think I have all I need then for the Leal car.  No decals but I've got references and can paint on the lettering.  Thats sort of my specialty.  The Charger 500 above is an example. Sounds like you have all you need for your 64, I believe the Melrose Missle III decals are the right ones. I'll send out a private e so we can swap the headers.  I think I know what you mean for the intake.  For air cleaner though, the kind of offset cowl induction found in Johan Petty kits, mid 60s style? Sorry about the 62, I just finished a nice 62 Dart Max Wedge 413 but I couldn't figure out how to get it out of My Photos to get it to you just now.  I'll work on that later.  thanks. Dave B.

there's a guy on Ebay that sells a Butch Leal set of decales for the 65 thru 72 cars (maybe later I don't remember). Sad thing is that there a few pictures of the dark blue or black 65 car, as most pics are red and white. Same paint schemes, but different colors.

gary

OK Gary, I think I have all I need then for the Leal car.  No decals but I've got references and can paint on the lettering.  Thats sort of my specialty.  The Charger 500 above is an example.

Sounds like you have all you need for your 64, I believe the Melrose Missle III decals are the right ones.

I'll send out a private e so we can swap the headers.  I think I know what you mean for the intake.  For air cleaner though, the kind of offset cowl induction found in Johan Petty kits, mid 60s style?

Sorry about the 62, I just finished a nice 62 Dart Max Wedge 413 but I couldn't figure out how to get it out of My Photos to get it to you just now.  I'll work on that later.  thanks.

Dave B.

UnderdogF7U wrote:

Thanks for the info again Gary.  I believe I will do that 65 Butch Leal car, I've got some pretty good photos laying around of it somewhere.  Coming to mind then is what about a Ross Gibson engine for it too?  I think he's got just the period correct one for it and I further presume it used a torqueflite? For the Bonneville car I was thinking more of just one of the parts pack engines being good, like the 392 hemi.  I wasn't suggesting the T Body.  I'm going with a channelled Duece for mine from the most recent Amt Coupe reissue, but not for Bonneville use, either a street rod or nostalgia drag car I think. For the B Ville tires, boy, I don't know.  Maybe those in the very early Monogram issues which have been reissued, like the Green Hornet or Black Widow?  They kind of have that bulbous sidwall, narrow tread look that looks right for a dry lakes racer and have the smooth full hubcap discs so common there too if I remember correctly. Not unlike 4os and 5os type Indy car tires. On your Mopar Super Stock, what I'm getting at is, I'd almost bet Lindberg uses the same motor mounts for the Petty Belvedere, Stock Belvedere even though its a wedge and not a Hemi ( the leaning tower of power has its own special mounts to add in the kit but we know thats a whole different story for another day lol), for the 64 Dodge Super Stocks and for the 64 Dodge 330 street version to save tooling costs even though of course the 1/1 cars had different ones.  Worth checking out anyway.  If not, I could send you a Ramchargers Lindberg 64 Dodge front frame section, K frame and front suspension  from my spares box that you could put on the back half of the Plymouth Chassis.  Hot Rod came out with a special Anniversary Hemi edition magazine within the past year that should still be available, and if not I can send you a copy of a good photo they have in there of a 2% car.  It is one of the 64 Melrose Missles running against Landy's 64 sedan as an AHRA Ultra Stock I believe.  Lots of good stuff in the mag if you can find it though. Finally, whew, for the 63 Plymouth, Modelhaus offers chromed front and rear bumpers, hood ornaments, Turn signal lights, the whole 9 yards.  They're made for Johan and I'm virtually positive thats what your 63 body was patterned off of. I also happen to have an extra set of 63 64 type fenderwell headers I'd be willing to swap for the Tri Y's if thats the sort of thing you might be looking for.  They were designed for the 64 Johan Hemi Dodge Hardtop and I also have a spare or two of the indented Max Wedge type hoodscoop if you would like that, though I imagine you're probably looking towards using the large Hemi type scoop.  Let me know.  I hope this helps, and your input has given me at least two new good ideas.  Thank you.  Now tomorrow I have to get started on some of this stuff. Dave

* Butch Leal ran nothing but four speeds! He was the equal to Ronnie Sox when it came to shifting a four speed, and many insiders thought he was better (at the factory). His 60 ft times were the equal if not better than 90% of the Prostock cars. I well remember watching him show up at Raceway Park one Wednesday night for a test and tune with all the other Mopar guys. The national record for SS/A was in the high nines, and Sox & Martin ran several nine fours. Leal just comes out and ran a 9.77 on a high ten second national record!! The car had more in it by the way as he shut off about two hundred feet from the traps. He used what looked like a factory intake (who knows what it looked like inside). The suspension was pure prostock (remember they made the rule change the year before to help the G.M. guys that let them run just about anything they could fit inside the body). I think it was a four link, but it might have been a three link (I doubt it going that fast). The shifter was not a regular Hurst shifter but one of their Super Shifters with the reverse lockout. I think maybe Harry Holten might have been the engine builder (West Coast Hemis), and that's traveling in some fast company (8.5's at 150mph)

* If your thinking about 1/25th scale there's a wide array of bodies. But no 1927 roadster! There was one sold once, but it can be extremely hard to come by. Rules state that if your running a stock bodied coup or roadster then you must use the factory (or replica) frame rails, but anykind of a cross member is OK. Most guys do a subframe affair that's attached to the outter rails. Yet use a full cross member in front and back on a fully boxed set of rails. This why you rarely see a Mod. T in street roadster or even roadtser classes (but they'll now let you run 32 rails in a high boy configuration [remember the C/G problem?]). You don't see a lot of early hemis much anymore at Bonneville, and most of them are Donovan 417's with the alloy tunnel port heads (a killer combo in "B" class by the way). They don't use factory type motor mounts, but run block plates front and rear. Most cars run a quickchange or a 9" Ford these days.

    Dry lakes cars have a tread pattern in the tires, but are somewhat narrow like Bonnevilles tires. These cars are a dream for a weathering project, and the solt all over everything is another issue.

* I have those same 1964 kits stashed away. And somewhere I have a full set of Tommy Groves 1964 Melrose Missle decales. Remember Tommy ran a stage three engine most of the time in a super light weight car.

* thanks for the tip on the 1963 parts!!!

* I'll probably never use the factory "tri-y" headers, and yes we can do a swap. What you'll do about the airgap intake I don't know, but a little work with a Dremel and a new valley cover will get you moving. P.M. me when you get a chance

   I once built a very accurate 1962 Belvedere hardtop that had a 413 max wedge in it. This car was accurate right down to the spring clamps attached to the rear leaf springs. My mother gave it away to the paper boy!!

gary

OK Doog, I'm game if you and Squeakie are.  I'm having a good time and learning a lot too, about lots of things.  Can't think of a better name to be under than Charger, expecially a 500 with a Hemi, anyway.  I've dug mine out to work on with all the other 1/2 finished projects.

Dave Bayer

UnderdogF7U wrote:

gary,  I suppose we ought to start a new thread too next time.  We've gone a long way from the Charger 500 via Jazz and everything else.  Kind of cool though. Dave

I was just tinking of renaming this thread something like "Squeaky and Underdog's hijacked engine thread"! 

Honestly, I received the answers I needed long ago, and I don't care if you keep posting in it--there's some good info trading here! 

gary,  I suppose we ought to start a new thread too next time.  We've gone a long way from the Charger 500 via Jazz and everything else.  Kind of cool though.

Dave

Thanks for the info again Gary.  I believe I will do that 65 Butch Leal car, I've got some pretty good photos laying around of it somewhere.  Coming to mind then is what about a Ross Gibson engine for it too?  I think he's got just the period correct one for it and I further presume it used a torqueflite?

For the Bonneville car I was thinking more of just one of the parts pack engines being good, like the 392 hemi.  I wasn't suggesting the T Body.  I'm going with a channelled Duece for mine from the most recent Amt Coupe reissue, but not for Bonneville use, either a street rod or nostalgia drag car I think. For the B Ville tires, boy, I don't know.  Maybe those in the very early Monogram issues which have been reissued, like the Green Hornet or Black Widow?  They kind of have that bulbous sidwall, narrow tread look that looks right for a dry lakes racer and have the smooth full hubcap discs so common there too if I remember correctly. Not unlike 4os and 5os type Indy car tires.

On your Mopar Super Stock, what I'm getting at is, I'd almost bet Lindberg uses the same motor mounts for the Petty Belvedere, Stock Belvedere even though its a wedge and not a Hemi ( the leaning tower of power has its own special mounts to add in the kit but we know thats a whole different story for another day lol), for the 64 Dodge Super Stocks and for the 64 Dodge 330 street version to save tooling costs even though of course the 1/1 cars had different ones.  Worth checking out anyway.  If not, I could send you a Ramchargers Lindberg 64 Dodge front frame section, K frame and front suspension  from my spares box that you could put on the back half of the Plymouth Chassis.  Hot Rod came out with a special Anniversary Hemi edition magazine within the past year that should still be available, and if not I can send you a copy of a good photo they have in there of a 2% car.  It is one of the 64 Melrose Missles running against Landy's 64 sedan as an AHRA Ultra Stock I believe.  Lots of good stuff in the mag if you can find it though.

Finally, whew, for the 63 Plymouth, Modelhaus offers chromed front and rear bumpers, hood ornaments, Turn signal lights, the whole 9 yards.  They're made for Johan and I'm virtually positive thats what your 63 body was patterned off of.

I also happen to have an extra set of 63 64 type fenderwell headers I'd be willing to swap for the Tri Y's if thats the sort of thing you might be looking for.  They were designed for the 64 Johan Hemi Dodge Hardtop and I also have a spare or two of the indented Max Wedge type hoodscoop if you would like that, though I imagine you're probably looking towards using the large Hemi type scoop.  Let me know.  I hope this helps, and your input has given me at least two new good ideas.  Thank you.  Now tomorrow I have to get started on some of this stuff.

Dave

UnderdogF7U wrote:

Gary,  On the Altered Wheelbase Mopar, if its a Lindberg this probably shouldnt be too bad. The hard part is the motor mounts are on the K Frame/lower suspension assembly and so should be removed and placed back farther on the suspension the same distance that you are moving the Kframe and suspension forward, because as I know you know, you sure don't want the engine moving forward,the whole idea was to get more weight to the rear.  It looks to me like the motor mounts should be able to be removed fairly cleanly and glued to the K frame just above where the idler and pitman arms hook up to the frame.  The only other thing then would be to remove those 2 mounting blocks for the K frame and place them farther ahead on the front frame.  I'd think just a cut with an X acto or razor saw should do the trick there and just reinstall them in the more forward position with a really  thin shim of sheet plastic to bring them back out the proper distance. If the motor mounts don't come as cleanly as you'd like I would think you could make some from plastruct or evergreen rail or beam stock of the proper dimension by just measuring test fitting and cutting. A little elevation could be accomplished then too by bringing the spindles down on the kingpins by simply cutting them off and reattaching them.  I suppose some metal rod could be substituted for the plastic spindles if you drilled them. Last thought, I've sometimes had it in my head to use the front straigt axle and leafsprings from the Little Red Wagon. For the B Ville roadster, the AMT parts pack kit with the 5 engines and T bucket body and accessories looks promising, theres an early blown hemi in there with a chevy small block with two building options, an Olds that can be built two ways, an Allison and a corvair engine.  You probably thought of this already, but just a thought if not. I have a 65 Plymouth sedan body that seems to wide.  I'm not sure of the maker, maybe R and R.  I figured just to put some plastruct rail stock along the edges of the top of the interior.  I think this would represent a more realsitic width for the door anyway.  Finally I do have a 63 Fury body which is painted Tamiya Mica Red and partially foiled except the cowl cracked on the passenger side and it would need a little body work there, but unless you really want that or have a good trade I eventually will probably do the body work myself eventually.  I'm always on the lookout for early mopar prostock parts, and anything in 6os Chryler and Imperial. See ya later. Dave B.

* remember that a hemi has different motor mounts than a wedge. They moved them forward to gain header clearence, but how they did them on the 1964 cars I really don't remember. There were actually three different superstock hemis built in 1964. Twelve with a stock wheelbase (might even be less than twelve). A very, very small handfull of what is known as 2% cars. This car has the entire body moved back 2% of the wheelbase (I've never seen one, but my brother has seen a couple). Then there is the one we normally know of with the slight factory altered wheel base. I might add here that there were a very, very small handfull of two door hardtops built (I've only seen two), and for some odd reason have a 1" shorter wheel base. The hood on the standar wheelbase cars is exactly the same as on a stageIII wedge motor while the others have the bigger hood scoop.

* a bucket T at Bonneville would be dangerous; what with the high center of gravity. But there was one built this year on a long wheel base. 1927 T's are the way to go in modified roadsters. They're longer and lower to the ground. Plus you can get your head out of the wind. Check out the SCTA's website. If I go ahead with the Chevy engine I'll start with one out of a Sprint car. It's got the correct Winters quick change rear end and all I need from there is a four speed transmission and home brew air shifters. The hard part is fabricating the roll cage, and making it look right.

* that's the brand of resin body I have! Just a different year. I have a 1963 two door hardtop, but need grill and bumpers (it's not resin). I have an unbuilt max wedge engine, but need to find some headers as it has the factory "tri-Y's". They never shipped a car with "tri-y's with a cross ram intake. But if your ever thinking about building a 1963 NASCAR car these are the correct headers along with the "airgap intake."

* with that 65 body you ought to think about building Butch Leal's car. It's got a four link rear suspension system, and tied in frame rails. This car is very very fast even to this day. I saw it drag the rear bumper for 300 ft in Indy!! With a well built Ray Barton hemi it ought be in the very low nines (SS/B) (don't forget to notch the passenger side shock tower).

    Right now I'm really concentrating on the Model A roadster car. I've even thought about scratch building one of the Mopar four cylinder race car engines (about the baddest four banger on the planet). Looking for a 32 grill shell and wheels right now. What I'll do for 300 mph tires is another story in itself!

gary

Gary,  On the Altered Wheelbase Mopar, if its a Lindberg this probably shouldnt be too bad. The hard part is the motor mounts are on the K Frame/lower suspension assembly and so should be removed and placed back farther on the suspension the same distance that you are moving the Kframe and suspension forward, because as I know you know, you sure don't want the engine moving forward,the whole idea was to get more weight to the rear.  It looks to me like the motor mounts should be able to be removed fairly cleanly and glued to the K frame just above where the idler and pitman arms hook up to the frame.  The only other thing then would be to remove those 2 mounting blocks for the K frame and place them farther ahead on the front frame.  I'd think just a cut with an X acto or razor saw should do the trick there and just reinstall them in the more forward position with a really  thin shim of sheet plastic to bring them back out the proper distance.

If the motor mounts don't come as cleanly as you'd like I would think you could make some from plastruct or evergreen rail or beam stock of the proper dimension by just measuring test fitting and cutting.

A little elevation could be accomplished then too by bringing the spindles down on the kingpins by simply cutting them off and reattaching them.  I suppose some metal rod could be substituted for the plastic spindles if you drilled them.

Last thought, I've sometimes had it in my head to use the front straigt axle and leafsprings from the Little Red Wagon.

For the B Ville roadster, the AMT parts pack kit with the 5 engines and T bucket body and accessories looks promising, theres an early blown hemi in there with a chevy small block with two building options, an Olds that can be built two ways, an Allison and a corvair engine.  You probably thought of this already, but just a thought if not.

I have a 65 Plymouth sedan body that seems to wide.  I'm not sure of the maker, maybe R and R.  I figured just to put some plastruct rail stock along the edges of the top of the interior.  I think this would represent a more realsitic width for the door anyway.  Finally I do have a 63 Fury body which is painted Tamiya Mica Red and partially foiled except the cowl cracked on the passenger side and it would need a little body work there, but unless you really want that or have a good trade I eventually will probably do the body work myself eventually.  I'm always on the lookout for early mopar prostock parts, and anything in 6os Chryler and Imperial.

See ya later.

Dave B.

UnderdogF7U wrote:

Gary, That would be an absolute slice of heaven just seeing these guys jam in the am with some really smooth bourbon.  I digress.  Anyway, I'd be interesed in some of your builds, latest project etc.  You've seen my Super Bee in progress, also closing in on a Lindberg 64 Dodge SS/SA, bronze and white, a 631/2 Ford S Stock for a change of pace, a street Charger 500 which I'm going to switch over to a torqueflite sort of my dream car (the current 1:1 project is an all black, Mark Cross leather totally optioned and digitalized 90 Chrysler Imperial, not a muscle car but beautiful and no slouch) a Nascar Intrepid converted into a Super Late Model Short Tracker (My Daily driver is an 02 Intrepid with 3.5 Semi Hemi DOHC six so I had to build some type of Intrepid) and ....  well you get the idea.  I think a lot of out there are like this awith all these half to 3/4 finished projects that we need a little boost or inspiration to finish. On the flip side I've also got that infamous Navy F7U Cutlass Fighter underway, a Travel Air Mystery Ship racing plane from the 30's and the USS Manchester going. And Doog,  if you're there, like to see some more of yours too! Dave B.

I'm working on four or five different cars at the sametime right now, and some of it's driving me nuts! One is a 1964 two door sedan Plymouth with a street hemi in it. The body is resin, and there something wrong with the width of the body (as in about a millimeter too wide). I'll make it work in the end.

* a 1927 Ford roadster built to run in rear engine modified roadster at Bonneville. Motor is still up in the air, but I'm thinking about a fuel injected Chevy to run in C-FRMR. Frame is giving me fits, but think I can see a dim light at the end of the tunnel here (very dim)

* a 34 Ford to run in vintage coup. Will have to use the Ford type frame and go from there. It'll have a late model hemi in it that blown. I've rounded up about half the pieces here. This car like the 27 will take a lot of work, and the body is the easy part.

* 1/16th scale model A Ford to run in street roadster class at Bonneville (can you tell where my heart's at?) Now this one's easier in some ways and then harder in others. I may built it with an injected flathead Ford engine, but at the moment I'm thinking late model four cylinder engine. Frame is driving me beyond nuts on this one, and I've thrown away two subframes already

* I'm also kinda thinking about building a 1964 Dodge or Plymouth with a race hemi in it and the correct factory wheel locations. Kinda stumped as to how to relocate the K-frame forward 2.5". The rear is easy, and I need 4.5" (i think anyway)

    What I really need is a good 1963 body. I got everything else to build a lightweight max wedge (including the correct engine). Anybody have a loose one laying around? I have to get something done here as I have several others I need to get moving on (two M-551's and a Ventura)

gary

gary