1/35 navy seals

Outlands wrote:

As I told another modeler showing his first-time figure - great start!  Figure-painting is a major challenge that ya gotta have guts to undertake.  Listen to the suggestions and study the references.  But - most importantly of all - KEEP PAINTING!  Every figure is different and has its own challenges. Oh - and US Woodland?  That is a stone-cold BEAR to paint anything CLOSE to right!  Honestly, the M-60 gunner's fatigues remind me more of the AUSCAM fatigues.  This is a compliment - in a back-handed way - because now you know that particular technique is a great step toward painting modern Aussies!    Check out this pic and see what I mean... (the one in the center is Aussie, others are Malaysians) Good paint-job on the ammo-belt, too.  I like being able to see the links as separate from the rounds.

cool pic there outlands! where did you get that?

us aussies sure do get around!

As I told another modeler showing his first-time figure - great start!  Figure-painting is a major challenge that ya gotta have guts to undertake.  Listen to the suggestions and study the references.  But - most importantly of all - KEEP PAINTING!  Every figure is different and has its own challenges.

Oh - and US Woodland?  That is a stone-cold BEAR to paint anything CLOSE to right!  Honestly, the M-60 gunner's fatigues remind me more of the AUSCAM fatigues.  This is a compliment - in a back-handed way - because now you know that particular technique is a great step toward painting modern Aussies!    Check out this pic and see what I mean... (the one in the center is Aussie, others are Malaysians)

Good paint-job on the ammo-belt, too.  I like being able to see the links as separate from the rounds.

harshman5 wrote:

A very amatuer pieces of work. No tone on their skin and weapon all look very toy like. Weathering is also lacking. Seriously u need more work to brush up yr skill.

hey "harshman"

im a nice guy but when i hear comments like that i get very p***** off.

and if I ever hear another comment like that ill have to ask one of the admin to eiter ban you or kick you off this forum permenantly. and anyways dude this forum is for advice and expert opinions, and frankly i dont think youre opinions were either profesional or expert. 

Now for my two cents:

As for these figures, they're better than they're given credit for, I think. Assuming that Berserker is using a standard US woodland camo pattern as his reference, it's a difficult camo pattern to replicate in 1/35th scale - but he;s done a fair job of it. Also, these older Tamiya figures don't exactly make facial skin-toning simple, do they? One more thing: Notice the ammo belt attached to the M60. There's good detail work there. Hard to see in these pics, but it's there.

Now for the critique of these figs. Skin tone isn't all it could be. I might recommend Kalmbach's book How to Paint Realistic Military Figures, by Lynn Kessler and Don Winar. Not that mine are anything to admire, but that's the book I learned from, mostly. Also, try Modelling and Painting Figures by Jerry Scutts.

I notice that your figures have chin straps, but you've painted them the same color as the skin, so that they blend in with the face. Chin straps aren't easy, because of the fine detail involved, but they're worth the extra effort.

Now for the ugly part:

Harshman5, your remarks here have been disgusting and rude. Your own figures need some work too, you know. Let's not be impolite about it.

Guys, I'm betting that this "harshman" isn't a "man" at all, but an immature "kid";--do you notice how he uses all those shortened versions of words like all the kids do when they're text messaging? "U" for "you", "yr" for "your", etc...yeah, he's just a punk kid, and if his grammar and spelling is any indication of his modelling skill, we'll all be having a well-deserved laugh when he posts his stuff!

harshman, if you can't use a little tact when posting your comments, do us all a favor; just don't chime in at all, because all you're going to do is wear out your welcome here FAST. 

Berserker, I think your figures look fine; the skin tones are a bit flat, but within the ballpark to be sure. The uniforms and accessories all show an honest commitment to producing something worth looking at, and a good place from which to continue to improve your skills. Hell, just the fact that you're attempting to model figures--one of the toughest aspects of modeling--and that you're putting them up here for critique shows that your heart and efforts are in the right place!

Let us see more of your work, and write a little about yourself and your modeling level next time!

Well I suppose since I told him he did some nice work I will add my two cents here, since I was the guy who originally told him, "nice work". During the build, he did some nice work, mold lines removed, joints appear difficult to detect, etc. Not excellent, not great, but a nice starting point. My main point was the uniform/gear/etc of the figures. But I feel I said it in a polite/constructive manner without beating around the bush, rather than saying "these guys are not SEALS and you are a _____ for not knowing that". It takes more guts to try something and post pics than it does to come up with online disguise and snipe at the guy in his back. I sincerely appreciate the fact that he had the confidence to try. Especially knowing the type of folks that show up here from time to time and critique without any helpful advice: friendly, curt, or otherwise. Yes criticism can spur one on to better performance, but that all depends upon delivery. If delivered without any suggestions/tips for corrections/improvement, it is not likely to succeed. Yes there are times for direct/harsh critiques to get immediate results, but this is not one of them.

Also, please proofread your posts before posting! I know my typing is bad, but I try and be sure that the spelling is correct, even though my fingers often get ahead of themselves.

agentg wrote:

Last October my daughter and I attended a rather prestigious show in the Chicago area. Out of my league but hey what the heck go and enjoy, right? I entered some of my work on Friday evening. Some folks arrived Saturday morning and began displaying their work. I overheard a judge, who was speaking quite loudly BTW, state: " His work is just lousy, I don't know why he's even here". Well gentle reader I was appalled at this conduct and vowed to never attend this event again. I wasn't even sure who's work he was speaking of, however it really didn't matter at that time. Yes I actually won something there also, very surprising given the display of talent. Point is if that's the attitude we put forth, the "know it all", you can't be as good as I think I am attitude, how can anyone learn and progress to the best of their ability?

I think u mix up that judge attitude with my attitude. Critics and belitte are 2 different things.

Critics are sometime neccessary to drive someone to take a serious action. If everytime is Mr Nice Guy comment,' Yr work is good but maybe u can .......'. I seen too many of the Mr. Nice guy who wouldn't dare to voice out their real opinion. Maybe Let me be the devil advocate in these forums

How do u think he will take some words seriously? I seen too many of the Mr. Nice guy in modelling forum who wouldn't dare to voice out their real judgement on others work. Maybe let me be the devil advocate in this forums

Regarding solution for every critic suggest by some forumer is up to individual. What i suggest can be easily google out. I did have link which is very good for beginner but was inside my old pc which crashed recently. Iｆ　 expect me to offer a decent explanation for TS,it will be come an essay writing...

There is a FINE difference between constructive criticism and just being plain RUDE.  What was so constructive about your "constructive" comments?  You pointed out very basic stuff and didn't offer any solution with it.  So, what solutions did you offer?  Did your previous post offer any solution or even offered helpful tips?  Did you share your KNOWLEDGE so that he can learn from it and help him to move on to the next level?  I'm sure you won't be too fond of a comment (that you made) if it were directed towards to you or your loved ones. 

I seen you kind of people before.  Because of people like you, there are many people who won't even bother to share their work in this forum or even attend meetings/shows. 

DO YOU FEEL BIG because you just bullied someone in the comfort of your home behind your keyboard?  Would you have said that same comment to someone right in front of his/her face? 

Expect more truthful comments from you?  I don't think so.  Just remember, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.  And problem you are.  If you really think you have made a "POSITIVE" impact on this modeler's skills, then I strongly suggest that you wake up, take a nice cold shower, have a cup of coffee and SMELL THE REALITY. 

I hope that you take this as a VERY POSITIVE CONTRUCTIVE LIFE CHANGING comment rather than a personal attack. 

PatlaborUnit1 wrote:

harshman5 wrote: A very amatuer pieces of work. No tone on their skin and weapon all look very toy like. Weathering is also lacking. Seriously u need more work to brush up yr skill. Harshman; My opinion, and what it is worth, but after 37 years in this hobby you will do more to encourage this hobby by providing an example of HOW to do something, rather than saying someone's work is very amatuerish and toylike. To "brush up" means that a person has the skill to begin with, AND that they need to renew and refresh that skill.  This is a hobby and we are here to learn. We are NOT professionals here by and large [ are you?] and to lay statement slamming another persons' work who POSTED the photos shows complete disregard for the learning process AND the quality of another persons attempts at learning.  Your post count is 8 as of this writing, and after reading your posts you have provided sound reasoning on your other posts, what sound reasoning brings the slam here?     I have encountered so many individuals over 6 states, four clubs  and ten forums who are quick to lambast, but slow to offer help and guidance, much less post thier work.  My work, and my website are out there for the world to see.  I am now curious which we shall see from you and I hope that in the future you offer the amount of experience and helpfulness in this community that your apparent modeling background [gained from your previous posts ] suggests.   David

 I did give constructive comment abt needing to give tone,improve on weapon kit and weathering. That is the 3 basic things need to differential a toy and a model kit. U see my nick,u shall expect more truthful comment from me. No offense. I strongly believe if u dare to post yr kit pic here. SHall expect criticism and improve on yr next kit and bring yr skill to a next higher lvl. Or else how do u expect him to improve if u keep telling him yr kit is good,nothing wrong with it and keep it up... First thing,he even don't bother to use a Navy Seal kit and claiming it Navy Seal?

 Ask yr heart,what i mention is it a fact?. I think my comment did not in any way belittle anybody. It may sound harsh but is for its thread starter good. I don't want to be a nice guy which in some way give non-truthful comment and not helping him in any way.

 If i encounter somebody comment this way,I take it postitively and not to repeat the mistake again. In fact,i did receive such comment when I start modelling. Slowly thru trial and error,I pick up some basic skill abt modelling. I start to know what is weathering and thru observation knowing how to make model kit different from a toy.

Hope TS take it positive if he happens to witness my comment. I believe one day,yr modelling skill will reach certain lvl that everybody praise and admire yr works.

harshman5 wrote:

A very amatuer pieces of work. No tone on their skin and weapon all look very toy like. Weathering is also lacking. Seriously u need more work to brush up yr skill.

Is there anything else you want to add to help this "amatuer" to improve his skills? 

harshman5 wrote:

A very amatuer pieces of work. No tone on their skin and weapon all look very toy like. Weathering is also lacking. Seriously u need more work to brush up yr skill.

Can you say "TROLL," boys and girls? I knew you could.

Harshman, maybe YOU could brush up on your spelling and grammar.

Have to agree with David here.  The above is a great example of destructive comments.  The post adds nothing to the ongoing dialog and doesn't help the builder at all.  If you would give constructive comments and advice as well, it would be fine.  Slamming another modeler's work outright is uncalled for and not in the spirit of the forums.

harshman5 wrote:

A very amatuer pieces of work. No tone on their skin and weapon all look very toy like. Weathering is also lacking. Seriously u need more work to brush up yr skill.

Harshman;

My opinion, and what it is worth, but after 37 years in this hobby you will do more to encourage this hobby by providing an example of HOW to do something, rather than saying someone's work is very amatuerish and toylike. To "brush up" means that a person has the skill to begin with, AND that they need to renew and refresh that skill. 

This is a hobby and we are here to learn. We are NOT professionals here by and large [ are you?] and to lay statement slamming another persons' work who POSTED the photos shows complete disregard for the learning process AND the quality of another persons attempts at learning.  Your post count is 8 as of this writing, and after reading your posts you have provided sound reasoning on your other posts, what sound reasoning brings the slam here?    

I have encountered so many individuals over 6 states, four clubs  and ten forums who are quick to lambast, but slow to offer help and guidance, much less post thier work.  My work, and my website are out there for the world to see.  I am now curious which we shall see from you and I hope that in the future you offer the amount of experience and helpfulness in this community that your apparent modeling background [gained from your previous posts ] suggests.

David 

Yep, I remember now seeing the ads in the back of FSM with the troops on the ram and around the vehicle thinking how worlds and away better they were than some of the other figures that came with kits from Italari, etc.

David 

That is not a SAW in the first S.E.A.L. DML kit  

 I opperated with the S.E.A.L.s In Vietnam as a Boat Support Unit crew or as Admiral Zumwalt designated us, a SpecWarGroup "Package".  As a Gunner's Mate I was around many selected weapons that were exclusive to that Ops specialty. The Stoner is one weapon with a colorful but short history and it was included in the original DML S.E.A.L. kit. It resembles a cross between an M-16 and an M60 in looks and operated as a box fed or drum fed weapon.

 The box fed version held approx. 50 rounds of linked 5.56 ammo inside a box attached to the side of the weapon which fed into the weapon much in the same way as any other belt fed MG. The other version and not seen as much is the drum fed model. This was round drum attached to the weapon and held approx. 100 round of 5.56. A wind-up spring mechanism held tension on the loose rounds which fed into the reciever by  pressure on the rounds. This was appearently copied from the old drum-fed .45cal "Heater" that gangsters enjoyed shooting up each other with in the 1930's. The drum version was not as popular inspite of the capacity due to mechanical problems with the clock-work type spring.

Additionally, we all modified the M60 to fire at a faster cyclic rate by cutting one recoil spring into two and compressing one hafl down over the original spring in the M60, naturally the rounds fed faster and the feed of the weapon was assisted by taking a "C" ration can of peaches and inserting the can into the pawls at the side of the weapon. The curvature of the peach can served to increase the feeding by cutting down on resistance caused by ammo links coming straight out of the ammo tray.

More later,

GMC John M.Staehle, USNR (Ret.)

HeavyArty wrote:

They are all great sets.

Too true.  My only nitpick is that there's not one Stoner Mk 23--which just about ought to be on any VN set.  

Ok, in fairness to the die maker, picking just one Mk 23 variant would be tough <sigh> 

(Fave obscure Mod 23 photo is a shorty barrel coupled to belt-fed box mag--would not be my first choice, but whatever makes the boat float as the BSU types say.)

Sounds like you got one of the Vietnam SEAL sets. 

This one, Vietnam SEALs:

The kneeling guy is carrying an Mk23 Stoner, not an M249 SAW.

They do another Vietnam set as well:

They also do these modern sets:

They are all great sets.

As to the Tamiya Modern Infantry set...

...maybe they were supposed to be descending the ramp of the M2/M3 that came out at the same time.

Yes, the were designed to be coming out the back ramp of the Tamiya M2/M3 Bradley.  They were included in the M2 kit, and also offered as a separate set.  They came out in '84, I think.

I happened to pick up the DML SEALS last week at our meeting during a swap and I can agree, there is a completely different weapons pack. It includes a shotgun (Remington?) as well as 40MM thumper and SAW.  The load vests are totally different and there is no body armor/Kpot.  Head rags (always my fave when working outside ) and bush hats are included.

I got mine for six dollars, full retail on the box of figures isnt much more than that, and DML has more accurate molding (*usually) that the older Tamiya offerings from the 80s.  Also, I prefer the DML poses, the Tamiya ( I have a lot of them) are always molded in the most akward poses, maybe they were supposed to be descending the ramp of the M2/M3 that came out at the same time.

David