Zvezda Black Swan 1/72

By the way, I'd never heard of Welsh Lovespoons....just did a little reading about them...pretty neat stuff!  Those things can be very intricate!!!

Thanks, Phil!  Your previous work on the Pearl helped me a lot with the build!

Yeah, no lanterns...I fooled around with them a little, but I couldn't get a finish that a) looked good; or b) seemed to fit well on the ship...so I left them out.

Funny, for the past several months, I've gotten very accustomed to thinking about this project during my down-time...now that it's finished, I don't know what to do with myself!  haha

About the wooden kit.  Well, let's not get ahead of ourselves....that Berlin kit is giving me trouble already....I bought some 1/4" plywood to cut out new keel/frame parts, searching through everything Home Depot had, and found 1 piece that wasn't warped beyond usability....two days later, it had warped, too!  So, I'm thinking maybe this isn't the time to get into something that's going to frustrate me every step of the way...we'll see, though...I have a few other projects in mind (maybe some Sci-Fi figures, I have my eye on a Frankenstein and Bride kit that looks cool!)....but I expect I'll come back to ships again at some point....Truth is, I'm not much of a ship enthusiast, I just wanted to try a few out, see how it went....

Either I'll move on to something new (which is my style), or I'll find that I have the *bug*, and come back for more shipbuilding....it has been a great challenge, and I really enjoy the comraderie of this forum!

I really liked building a Zvezda kit, I wonder if their other ships are as good of quality?  And there's always the Revell big Constitution, or the Heller Victory, or maybe a Model Shipways wooden kit, or even an old Scientific beginner wood kit....there's a lot of options!  It'll be fun to see where the *muse* takes me!

Thanks again, Phil!

Beautiful job Dave.  It looks fantastic.  I see you chose to leave the lanterns off.  The rigging looks nice and taught all over.  Once again, great job!

So you're taking on a wood kit next?  I can't wait to see the build log.  I would say you would be motivating me to work on a wood kit but I have two builds on my workbench, a November craft show I'm getting ready for (I carve Welsh Love Spoons when I'm not at my model workbench), and I have the Premium Edition of Academy's 1/400 Titanic coming from Santa this year and I'm setting aside an entire year for that build.   So I don't think I'll be looking at taking on a wood ship build for quite some time.  

And with the care and attention to detail you put into the Black Swan I know your wood build will be great.   I can't wait.

Phil

Well, it's been almost 5 months, and the Black Swan is finished!  I'm very happy with the end result- in fact, I think I'm going to contact Zvezda and let them know how much I enjoyed the build.  Maybe they won't care, but I think they deserve to know how much the experience meant to me.  I learned a lot!

Here's a handful of pics...I wish they were a little better, but for some reason if the light was directly on the sails, they would reflect and I couldn't get the exposure down low enough!  They're really not that bright!  I took special care to get them a very mellow tan with dark shading throughout, I hope it comes through okay visually in the pictures...  

Special thanks to everybody who helped me with advice and suggestions, and with words of encouragement during the last few months...and especially to Paul (2whl), who began this thread...I may never have gotten my kit if he hadn't posted about it here!

And I really hope anyone who builds this kit in the future will find help from reading this post!  (feel free to contact me if you have any questions, future builders!)

Now to find a good spot for the display case!

Dave....

K

You are welcome, but you've done a bang up job on that ship.  I agree there is always something you find after you "finish" a project that you want to fix or you want to add, but that's the cool part of modeling sailing ships!

And by the way, you' re a braver man than I , Gunga Din for tackling a wooden ship.  I can hardly wait to see it!

Steve

Thanks, Steve!  It's funny, all the little details, shortcuts, and tips that can make building a model so much easier...

Getting closer to the end!  Depending on how much time I get to work on it this weekend, I might even be done by Monday!  Although, they never really *feel* done, do they?  There's always more touch-up, or other work that can be done to a kit...but I guess once I reach the end of the instruction book, I can call it quits!...And I'm on the last page...

I wonder if I'll get into that Wooden Corel Berlin kit after this...

Looking good David.  Smart move regarding the rigging, I always do the same.  I also attach all the blocks I'll need on the yards before attaching them to the masts.

Steve

I thought I would post a pic of the Running rigging lines as they stand on the mizzenmast BEFORE I place the sails....as I mentioned before, installing the sails and rigging in the order prescribed in the instructions would prove to be a struggle, so I opted to run all the rigging line throught the blocks (per mast), so I wouldn't have to deal with *reaving* (?) them through with all the sails in the way....here's an example of it:

   oooh kaaa another week eh?    

well I guess all good things come to those who wait, and wait and wa.....  

Uh sorry dozed off for a mo,  Any way    lookin' forward the you next installment

P.S. sounds like you have it mastered for this one.

Figured I would post some update on my progress...

So far the Fore-and-Mainmasts are rigged, complete with sails....got the pinrails on the mizzenmast, but no sails yet.  Tonight I'm planning to rig up the spritsails (?) which look to be a fun challenge because of all the lines already run up by the bowsprit....Next, I'll prep the sails for the Mizzen, and get them on and rigged...I'm getting pretty close to the end now.

I will mention that deviating from the instructions for the sail/rigging sequence has been a good idea.  I chose to install the pre-rigged rails at the base of the masts, then run all the lines through the blocks that attach closely to each mast (taking care to not let them cross anywhere!), then working my way from attaching the lowest sail then proceeding upward, completing more of the rigging for each sail as I progress...once all sails for a mast are on, the last lines I tie are the ones at the bottom of each sail that hold the lower edge forward or backward, and then the lines that connect each sail to the one below it.  (Sorry, I don't know all the names for all the lines yet!) ...the process worked well, and I didn't have a lot of trouble reaching the blocks after the sails were on, because I'd already completed all the rigging *close to the masts* before the sails went on!

Once I finish rigging the sails, I have to decide what to do about the rear lanterns (I'll probably try to assemble and paint them, and if they look okay, I'll attach them---LAST, so they aren't likely to get knocked off!)...then some final work with the cradle....got some gold touch-up to do, and still need to attach the mermaid figures...then a quick once-over for some highlighting and final touch-up, and she's gonna be done!  I think it will look really nice!

I'll post several pics of the finished product, but you'll have to wait until then!  Figure a week or so and I'll be finished!

Thanks, Phil!

Yeah, the intensity of rigging is totally worth it in the end!  I find myself walking over to the shelf to admire it all the time!  

Got the foremast topsail finished after work today, and that means the foremast is COMPLETE! Yay!

Don't know if I'll get much time to work on it over the weekend, but next up is to *belay* lines on the next set of rails, put them on, and get started on the mainmast sails!  I like the technique of runing all the lines through their blocks before the sails go on...it makes for a much easier time!  And yes, I do expect it to get crowded in there!  But the front of the ship looks great!  I'll try to get a couple more pictures up of the current state in a day or two....

Figure it'll be done in a few weeks...Started on it exactly 4 months ago today...

I can totally agree with you.  Rigging can be frustrating, painstaking and maddening.  But I also find it completely relaxing and rewarding.

Beautiful work.  The rigging and sails are really making the whole picture very nice.  You're doing great.  Good Stuff.

Phil

I agree, Duster!  

I got the topsail attached last night, after running all the remaining foremast lines through their blocks....hopefully tonight I can get all those *loose ends* tied off (seriously, right now the ship looks like a bowl of spaghetti noodles was dumped over it!), and the foremast will be DONE!

I may have said it before, but this kit is an order of magnitude more complaex than my two previous efforts!  

I have 3 words to describe the rigging process:  Pain-Stake-Ing!

There are measures of patience, chaos, and ultimately, satisfaction....but mostly chaos!  

Can't belive I'm saying this (bein' a plastic air craft guy) But, this is getting exciting

Quite right, John!  I never thought of it as a reef knot, but I suppose I do use it often!  Thanks!

And let me say that I appreciate your patience with someone who's still new to the scene!

For one such as yourself, who has been building ships for 50+ years, it must get tiresome to hear the same old questions so many times from neophytes.  The guidance of an experienced hand is vastly important, and should be valued for many reasons.

So, thanks to you and the other members for all your support and encouragement!

I tied most of the rigging for the fore mainsail last night, and it came out pretty well.

After I get the topsail on, I still plan to attach the sails in order from lowest to highest (on the following masts)...but I realized last night that, since most of the lines have been belayed and are ready to run up from the rails, there's no reason why I couldn't pass the appropriate lines through their rigging blocks on the mast before I even put the sails on!  That would help alleviate much of difficulty of accessing those blocks during the rigging process, even IF one were to attach the sails in the prescribed order (top to bottom).  In fact, regardless of the order of sail attachment, I think running many of the rigging lines up through the blocks is a good idea!  Sure, it makes for a temporary mess (there are lines all over the place, halfway run!), but soon every line has a known purpose, and the confusion is lessened.

Anyway, here's a pic...it doesn't show much, and it's kind of grainy (phone picture)...

One more thing:  A helpful hint for assembly....the instructions call out each of the lines as they are belayed to the rails below each mast, and each line is designated with an alphanumeric code, and a length in CM.  A few steps later, during the rigging of those lines, some of the codes do not match up with the previously-indicated positions on the railing.  so be careful, future builder of this kit, and double-check your line placement.  I added 10 CM to each line when belaying, and the instructions give a generous length callout for each one, so I didn' have any trouble with too-short of lines....

Say you're tying a knot around a mast.  Bring the line around, say, the bottom of the yard and pull up.  Now the line has two parts - the standing part and the hauling part.  Tie the two parts together with a reef knot and snip off the hauling end (preferably after putting a tiny drop of white glue on it and letting the glue dry).  You've just used the reef knot to tie a line to a mast.

I strongly suspect that's the way you've been doing it, instinctively.

"To tie both ends of a line together"

Now that's where I get confused....I can sit here with a piece of string and tie the ends of it together to make a reef knot that looks and performs exactly like a reef knot should....but when I'm trying to terminate a line on a ship, I'm often working with just ONE free end (securing a line end around a mast, for example).  Maybe there's some simple point I'm not getting? 

That's a COOL web site.  I never would known such a site existed.  Thanks for the tip.

Here's a website that shows (complete with animation) how to do it:  www.google.com/imgres  .  The same knot can be used to tie both ends of a line around an object (e.g., an eyebolt or a spar) or to tie two lines together.

If you don't take the second "turn" to make a square/reef knot, you'll have a half hitch, which won't hold.

The slip knot (at least as I learned to tie it in the Cub Scouts) is really just a reef knot with a loop added to it.

Ahhhh, I think I'm beginning to understand...the first part of the knot is kinda like an overhand knot, which holds a little bit of tension, then the knot is *locked* by the second crossover.  Seems like it would work well to keep tension applied while finishing the knot.

Eureka!

Well, I personally use the reef knot for everything except ratlines.  I think most other sailing ship modelers do the same.

The one potential drawback to the reef knot (or square knot) is that if you don't watch what you're doing, you can make the last crossover of the lines backwards.  (In other words, you can put the wrong line in front of the other.)  The result will be the infamous "granny knot," which won't hold.

Thanks, John! I looked it up, and it is a familiar knot....tell me, what are some examples of a good place to use a reef (square) knot on a model ship?

I have to say, it was going to drive me crazy trying to figure out a way to tie knots that could be adjusted later!  I was thinking that everybody else knew something I didn't, and that I was doing things the hard way!  I suppose there are instances where it's possible to make some adjustment, but I seem to be getting along alright just tying a line and moving on.

And yes, I'm putting the sails on in reverse order from what the instructions indicate.  On one hand, it's more difficult going bottom to top, because there will be many previously-run lines in the way of the next sail's rigging...but on the other hand (and more of a pain, in my opinion) not being able to reach the rigging blocks because of an obstructive sail is a serious roadblock!  I can naviagte through a bunch of run lines, but I think trying to sheave through rigging blocks that I can barely see or reach will cause a lot more problems (and headaches!)....

I'll keep the updates coming...hopefully this is one of those times where I can help a future builder of this kit to consider choosing a different way (like the I 22 gunport pegs from before!), one that may make things easier...OR, maybe my attempt will end in disaster!!! Either way....

I attached the main foresail last night, but I haven't rigged it up yet.  I found that trying to keep the sail square and plumb to the hull was kind of tricky, so I made a couple of rigs to hold it in position while the cement dried last night:

I basically took two lengths of line, tied a loop onto the end of each, and lasso'ed them over each end of the yard...then I draped the free end of each line back and over the crosstree of the main mast behind it, with a binder clip attached to each one.  The weight of the clips held the ends of the sail where I wanted, and I could adjust the left-or-right of the sail by using the clips as counterweights.  using a ruler, I checked that everything was square (I actually had to hang another clip from one side of the sail to keep it level, it wanted to tilt to starboard) and let it dry overnight.  Worked like a charm!  I still have to put one sail on the foremast that will be obscured by the topgallant sail that I did first, so that will be a pain, but hopefully it'll be the only one I have to do that way!

David, you almost certainly already know how to tie the reef knot.  It's the one everybody instinctively ties; landlubbers call it the square knot.

No, it won't be easy to adjust.  Neither will any other knot you're likely to use in a ship's rigging.  (The slip knot is adjustable, but if you think about it you'll see that its "slipperiness" doesn't help in most rigging situations.)  Lines attached to belaying pins or cleats by winding a figure 8 around them can be adjusted if you're careful.  (When you're taking the last turn around the top of the belaying pin, tuck the hauling end under the standing part.  That's how the sailors did it.  By loosening the loop over the top of the belaying pin you can cast the line loose and adjust it to your heart's content.)  But in many cases there's just no escape from getting the tension on the line right in the first place.  (This is one of those instances in which working with a wood model is easier than working with a plastic one.  Wood spars, unless they're very small - and made out of an inappropriate wood - don't bend as easily as plastic ones.)

David

 Just put the ruddy sails on from bottom to top of the mast; especially if that makes the most sense to you.

Geesh I'm getting impatient to see the next pictures of your progress 

================================================================

seriously: It's exciting to see the excellent work to date  so don't rush in until your comfortable.

Thanks, you guys!

Jtilley, just to clarify: I'm not too concerned about criticism for using the wrong knots, but it's more that I don't know what is a good way to terminate a line so that I can keep proper (and adjustable?) tension on it?  I find myself pulling the free end of a line to get tension, then when I try to tie it off, the tension is lost during the "knotting process"....I'll look into the reef knot....does it help with maintaining tension while cinching the knot?  Or is there some other reason I have trouble keeping my lines at the tension I want?

Also, I really appreciate the input regarding your experiences with kits; it definitely helps me when making considerations for future projects!  I do feel like if I move on to another plastic kit, I may lean toward the Heller Victory (but you know me, as of yet I have no strong impetus to build a *serious* model- wonky rigging blocks be damned!)...it has a reputation as a quality kit, it would definitely challenge my fledgling skills, and it's a beautiful subject.  But that Chebec is interesting, too....things to consider.

Capnmac...I like the idea of using some sort of scaffold to support my elbows while rigging...especially for upper-mast stuff!

Again, I may need to clarify about my question:  What I'm wondering is whether there's any reason to rig the topgallant, then the topsail, then mainsail (in that order) on each mast.  Or if it's perfectly fine to rig the mainsail first, then move up to the topsail, and then the topgallant?  It's true, all the lines are attached to pinrails in advance, and they are meant to be rigged from there to their upper end-points, but I'm more concerned with the placement order of the sails.  The instructions show the sequence of sail attachment as starting with the upper sail for each mast, then attaching and rigging the one below it, et cetera.  Maybe it's hard to explain clearly, but I'll try:  :)

At each crosstree (or masttop?) of a mast, there are a cluster of rigging blocks that I have previously tied on, so that rigging line can be run through them after each sail is placed.  When I attached the topgallant foresail, everything went smoothly, and I was able to reach the crosstree rigging blocks for that sail and rig it just fine (the blocks for each sail are slightly above/just behind the sail to be rigged.

Now that the topgallant foresail is in place, my next step is to attach the topsail below it, and rig that one. However, now the lower part of the topgallant sail is in the way of the rigging blocks for the topsail, so it's going to be exceedingly hard to reach in there and manipulate those blocks to run line through them.  So I figured if I just started with the lower sail first, and rigged it up, I would be able to access the crosstree blocks from above without as much issue, and when I get to the highest sail for each mast, I'll STILL be able to access the blocks for that last sail because there will never be a sail above it blocking my access....

Sheesh, does that make any sense, or have I degraded into a blathering madman?  haha

I can't seem to forecast any pitfalls of attaching/rigging the sails in reverse order (main-top-topgallant), so I'm going to try it out...it could save me a TON of headache for the remaining masts.  Or I could find out halfway through that I needed to keep the sequencing intact or X won't line up with Y or Z later....

I'll post my findings...it could make a very big difference.

Dave

David_K

Is there any reason why I can't attach and rig the sails from lowest to highest?

Looking at the upcoming steps, I can't see any reason why I shouldn't do it in reverse order, but maybe I'm  not seeing the *big* picture?

:Like everything else in modeling, not, there is no reason for you to not use the technique that works best for use.

I know I've stopped and sketched a zillion different adjustable fixtures for rigging.  (Basic idea is a base on locking castors with two ends fitted up for adjustable shelf pegs, and a couple of arm-rest bars across the top.  Then, just adjust the self up to bring the rigged area up to about the best height to work from from one's chair.)  Instead, I just pile up boxes, books, etc. and do that instead.

I also have a tendency to rig 'backwards" from the belaying point to the working end.  Which is rather how Zvesda has set this kit up.

To each their own, and all the better for it.

A couple of points.  No. 1 - Don't lose any sleep worrying about the proper knots to tie.  The truth is that in a real sailing ship very few rigging lines are actually tied to anything.  They're either seized or spliced.  (In the case of running rigging, the standing end is normally seized or spliced to some fixed point, and the running end is wrapped temporarily around a belaying pin, cleat, or other device.)  Seizing isn't particularly difficult (once you get some practice), but I don't think any sane person would try to splice a line on a model (except one on a large scale - say, 1/48 or bigger).  Most of us get away with tying square knots (or, as a sailor would call them, reef knots) where the real ship had splices.

I've been building sailing ship models for more than fifty years, and I can't recall running into a situation where I needed more than two knots:  the reef knot and the clove hitch.  In some cases (large-diameter lines that are in conspicuous places), I've made phony splices by separating the strands of the thread, wrapping them around the standing part, and securing them with white glue.  But in a model like that Zvezda kit, nobody's likely to criticize you if you tie reef knots in the lines.

No. 2 - If you want to know about the Heller Soleil Royal   (no e at the end of "royal," by the way), you'll find plenty of opinions if you do a search in this Forum on the ship's name.  I guess I'm at the head of the list of Forum members who think the kit is a piece of junk; plenty of others have aired different opinions.  But you're right on the specific point you mentioned:  the kit provides no means of attaching the yards to the masts.  Neither does the Heller Victory, but that kit is, in my opinion, so good in so many other ways as to compensate for that flaw (and several others).  Fortunately, making a set of scale parrels (the gadgets that hold the yards to the masts in the real ship) is pretty easy.

One of my biggest peeves with both those Heller kits is that the blocks and deadeyes in the box are, to all intents and purposes, unusable.  That isn't entirely Heller's fault; the injection-molding process can't produce a block or deadeye with holes through it and a groove around it.  (I find it interesting that Zvezda has come up with a way around the problem, at least for deadeyes:  mold them in halves.)  If you want to make a serious, reasonably accurate scale model out of either of those two kits, you almost have to either make the deadeyes and blocks from scratch or buy aftermarket replacements.  In other words, you spend well over a hundred dollars on the kit, throw out almost a thousand pieces of it, and spend a couple of hundred bucks on aftermarket parts.  I am, by lots of people's standards (including my wife's), pretty extravagant when it comes to spending money on my hobby, but that's just too much for me.

Thanks, Phil!

I use a couple of long-handled tweezers, and my new long-handled needle-threader...I'll see if I can find a couple of forceps...anything to help!  I'll try to keep my patience and not get frustrated!

You're right, sails look neat, but they do get in the way, badly!  And they also seem to hide much of the detail I've worked so hard to achieve!  lol  Nonetheless, I decided when I got the kit that I would use them, and I think I'll be pleased when it's all finished!

Again, I'm really glad to be able to ask your advice, Phil!  Your Pearl is super-sweet, and I've looked at the pics of it numerous times during my build for inspiration!

Did you happen to see my question about whether I can attach the sails in reverse order (i.e., bottom to top on each mast)?? Seems like it could simplify things for me somewhat, but I might be missing some important reason for the sequence???

You know, I've looked into some of the plastic kits you mentioned...Seems like the Heller Victory is very popular (and well-regarded!), and thought the Soleil Royale LOOKS more like my style of ship, I hear it has some shortcomings, and I've heard something about the yards having NO MEANS TO ATTACH THEM?  It's madness!  And yes, of course, the Revell 1/96 Connie...it's on my Amazon Wish-List...but I just never dropped the hammer and bought it...truth is, it just isn't that appealing to me visually (I bet several people who read this will curse my blasphemy!)....But it is a cool piece of history...and I may just build it someday....

I'll look into the Heller Chebec...

My intention is always to move *up* when progressing to new projects...I tend to prefer each next endeavor to be of a higher quality, greater challenge, and not smaller in size than my previous efforts...plus, it has to be visually compelling to me.  Which is why it's going to be hard to move on from the Swan..it has very high quality molding, dramatic styling, impressive size, and it is proving to challenge and develop my skills.  Maybe something from Heller would be in order for me next....Something tells me if I build an *actual* model (based on a real ship), I may begin to find a tendency to embrace the "details and authenticities" (read: rivet-counter) club....

Do you have any experience with wooden kits, Phil?

Thanks again!

David

I hate to break the news to you, but it's only gonna get harder.  Invest in forceps.  I use two of them whenever I do any rigging.  And they especially come in handy on the Pearl (Swan).  While the sails are cool, they just get in the way.  Wait till you get to the Mains.  You will age a couple of decades trying to rig them up.  Just be patient and take your time.  You'll get it.  But definitely invest in the model forceps.  I got mine at Hobby Lobby.  But not in the models section.  I got them in cheaper from the Jewelry-making section.

And if you want a good plastic ship kit, there are several.  My favorite is the Heller Le Chebec.  It is simply fantastic, though very hard to find and expensive.  Of course Heller's HMS Victory is high on the list as is the much debated Soleil Royal.  Personally I loved the kit.  Then, of course, the list wouldn't be complete without Revell's Cutty Sark and USS Constitution.  But for these two kits, look for early releases.  Anything from the 70's and earlier will have pretty sharp molds.

Phil