Zvezda Black Swan 1/72

I,m not a ship builder, but I enjoyed your build so much that I went to the begiining and read it start to finish. Great work....

just wont to see if a reply will bring this thred back up.

wow! This is excellent!  And so beautiful!

Gene, your Swan is looking really good!  I'm impressed!

You'll be happy with the Imai Santa Maria....it's one of my favorite ship models.

As far as weathering and washes, I tend to go with dark browns, like Umbers and Siennas...the best thing you can do is start experimenting, get a few tubes and try some colors to see what you like best...I'm sure you'll find a color scheme that works for you!

Good luck, and please keep us updated on your projects!

Oh, and I will check out that website yuo mentioned!
Thanks,

Dave

Hi again David, I really like the look of your Red Earth paint on my Swan. I have been on it nearly 4 weeks & it has surely been fun. It went together perfectly. I am about done with the standing rigging. I used the cast schrouds as at my age rigging is a lot harder than it used to be.

    I just found the Imai Santa Maria last night & it is already mailed. I lucked into a good place last night, it is  CharliesPlasticModels.com  . Real nice individual with 4000 kits & nice to deal with. His prices & shipping are fair.

  David what colors of oil wash did you use on the Santa Maria? Again, your colors are perfect & your work is too. I have been at it for 75 years & am learning a lot from you, thanks.

     Here is my Swan.

And here is my 1x2 in the hull to screw into. It works great & I use in on plastic & plank on frame ships both. Even the wood models don't have enough to screw into. Someone on this Forum mentioned using brass tubing inside the masts to stiffen it & it works great. That has always been my main dislike to plastic ships. I even put 44 cal flattened  black powder bullets in the rear of my planes to weight them down.

      David, I will be back to pester you some more, & look at that kit place. It is in Iowa I believe.     

                                       Gene

Hi again David, Thanks again for the colors on the Swan. It does look great & I am just finishing the standing rigging.Your Red Earth color was perfect. I went ahead & used the cast shrouds because my fingers & hands don't work like they used to.

  I look at my Constitution model & 30 years ago I did nice work on rigging, but not anymore.The Swan has been a super fun ship to build & I have been on it nearly 4 weeks.

This is my 1x2 in the hull for screws. Works good. I even put it in my wood ships.

David I need to ask you now about the Santa Maria stain colors, what colors did you use on yours?It a

I recently read a decent account of the Golden Age of Piracy. Their tactics were best served with small fast ships crowded with well armed men. Their adversary were lightly armed, if at all. If they got into it with a Navy ship, they preferred to fight from land, where they might have a few cannon well situated and protected. Otherwise they'd get sunk from several hundred feet away and there'd be nothing they could do about it.

But they would have really been stretched to man a shipboard gun of any size. That takes a lot of discipline, ARRGGGHHH.

Not to rain on model expo, but it can be had cheap, if used, on libris or amazon too.

I am pretty sure that those posts, or slightly shorter ones, are on the movie replica thing/ barge.

My assumption is that they provided mechanical advantage for the usual, bogus, "all the ports pop open at once" type of scene.

Well, if you want to buy one book, I'd recommend "The Neophyte Shipmodeler's Jackstay," by George M. Campbell. It's short, well-illustrated, and about as thorough as a book of that size can be. It's also cheap. You can buy it from Model Expo ( www.modelexpo-online.com ). If you learn everything in that book you'll be well on the way to being a knowledgeable sailing ship modeler.

Where the Zvezda designers got the idea for those posts above the gunport said I can't imagine. It's downright irrational.

Thank you all for the answers. I see that I have to buy a good book with all nautal terms and preferably lots of pictures. Even if it is an imaginary ship I like to learn something when it comes to rigging. Its a little difficult with all technical terms in english though but on the other side I get to practice my second language too :) 

I did put the ropes through the holes above the cannon doors. Those little pins would not have survived to the end of the build so I decided to ignore them. I also thought they looked impractical. I will probably return with more questions as I move forward on the rigging.

Just waiting for some thread I ordered. Did not like the ones supplied in the kit. 

Best regards, Martin

I've got two big reservations about that kit. One is the capstan that wraps around the mainmast. That one would be hard to fix.

I became aware of the other problem when I read the instruction book on the Revell Germany website: those big posts sticking out of the hull above the hi ports. The instructions tell you to run a short rope between the post and the gunport lid. This obviously is ridiculous. (How are the port lids supposed to be shut?) Fortunately this one's easy to fix.Just leave the posts off, and use the holes for them to run ropes directly from the port lids to the holes. I notice that Dave did this on his model.

That will make the model look a lot more rational.

Martin, it's an imaginary ship. A well done one, for sure. Looking at how other modelers solved any questions will only get you, ...that. Although in all the world I would suggest David's advice will come from his knowledge outside of the instructions, from the reading he's done.

The lower fore stay would loop around the mast, going around and over the lower cross trees, and be seized and served back to itself. The framing you see under the top isn't there to hold up the little platform so much as it's there to transfer force to the mast and the shrouds that are also there, both terminating from below and extending above. That porch, sun deck, shooting platform, top, is a convenient thing making use of the cross trees, which are a sort of vertical bitt.

Hi Martin-

Thanks for the compliment! 

It is a fine kit, plenty of detail and quality molding.

Happy to help, but I'm not 100% sure I can visualize what blocks you're talking about...my model is currently at a friend's home on display, so I can't reference it right now.

BUT, I do have the instructions here, so I looked at them quickly...It seems that depending on which mast you're looking at, there could be different lines running from the top.  My guess is that 2 of the blocks under the top are for the sheets (lower corners) of the sail above them, and 2 others for the Halyards (the lines that hold the yard at the desired height)....the 5th block could possibly be (depending on which mast) a single halyard for the topgallant yard way up on that mast.  OR, it could be a block to manage the staysail running lengthwise in front of the mast.

I hope that makes some sense?  I'm sure if you leaf back and forth through the plans, you should be able to track it down.  If neither of those suggestions prove to be true, please le tme know and specify which masts (and which step in the plans?) and I can keep trying to help you track down the purpose of that pesky block!

Also, for the stay line:  It does indeed loop around the masthead.  I usually wrap it around, alligator clip it into a loop, and tie a couple seizings around it to secure it in place, then a dab of glue to hold the seizings (I use the term seizing loosely)....

Feel free to ask me if you have any Qs, I'm happy to help if I can.

Dave

Hi David!

I´m new to this forum and joined when I saw your build. Its one of the best looking plastic ships I have ever seen! I was so amazed by your build that I got one myself and am currently at the rigging.

I am completely new to rigging and ran into problems immediately. On the masts under the platforms there are five blocks. Three short tied and two longer. In the instructions I can only see the use for the longer and two of the short ones. What is the third used for?

I´m also having trouble seeing how the line going from the bowsprit to the foremast under the platform is tied down. The instructions only shows it making a loop around the mast.

Hope you want to help me out on this. Have been googling like crazy to find pics but none shows exactly what I want to see.

Best regards, Martin T, Sweden

Thanks Mike for the advice & I don't ever do that but I guess I got carried away. I should take it off, if I can.

Gene,

At the top of anyone's post is the statement: "Posted by ............" . Just click on the poster's name where you'll be redirected to a page that has "Private Message" written on a link. That's the private email for users of this site.

As an added caution, I'd not post my own email address on any public site unless I was very, very certain that I trusted all who visit the site.

Mike

Thanks Rob, I will be posting a lot more of my models as soon as I learn a little more about the how to. Also how do I send a private message? I don't want to tie DavidK's site up. He has been super nice & helpful.

Fantastic work Gene.  I too spent a lot of time building model railroads(Mountain scenes) and honed my skills over 40 years..it is good to see you here and getting ready for another build.

good luck.

Rob

Hi David, Thank you very much for the quick answer to my question on color. We have to go into Asheville on Monday 7 that is my closest hobby shop. I will pick up the colors you listed .They were really excellent. I have also seen the work on your Santa Maria today & it is really great.

 I see you are doing the S R now. I built the big wood one 30 + years ago & it was a bear. It was about 40" long & had a ton of brass castings. I think the kit then was about $800. We had another excellent builder at the big hobby shop I went to in Miami & he had built it & gold plated all the brass. He had it for sale for $25,000. I didn't finish mine but sold it to my 68 year old neighbor. He suprised the heck out of  me by finishing it & did a very good job. I had the hull complete with all the brass on, but no masts or rigging. He had never built a model much less one like this.

   I will stry to send a couple pics of mine, but can send a bunch if I have your email. I am very impressed with your work & believe me I have seen a bunch. I started my best friends son in law in model building 40 years ago & he is now one of the best in the country. He took several best in show in the Tokyo Verlinden/ Tamiya contests.He did the plastic Victory and took first placethere too.

  This was just the small end of this layout. This was 35 yeras ago. One thing I meant to mention to you was,on plastic ships from subs to sailing ships, I always epoxy or CA a piece of 1"x2," or more, in the hullbefore I close it up so I can screw it to a wood base & use brass finials ( I'm not sure of the spelling on that).

This is my scratch built 1911 Indy winner, the Marmon Wasp

I will quit now before I bore you.

 All the best, Gene Foster

Hi Gene!  Welcome to the forum, and thanks for your compliment on my Black Swan!

I'm glad you liked it.  I'll admit, I've learned a lot since I built it (though I still consider myself a newb, compared to many of my peers on the forum!) but all in all, I'm happy with how it came out....it's a great kit, and I'm sure you'll enjoy building it, especially if you already know the basic premise of the kit itself...

I'm happy to tell you the colors I used.  And this is why I always keep my old instruction books, and the notes I take when building a kit...I can go into my *kit archives* box, pull out the old instructions, and voila!  Here I am, looking at a few pages of notebook paper that I can reference to help me remember paint colors, construction tips, notes etc.

Anyway....

The paints I used were Model Master Acrylics, by Testors.

The lower hull was Light Grey (or maybe Ghost Grey)

Upper Hull was Earth Red

Wales and other trim were Panzer Shokladbraun (or some other spelling!)

Decks were Wood

Masts were Wood (though I think I went over them again with Vallejo Wood)

I also used a typical liquid wash for the parts, some thinner and black oil-based paint.

Hoep that helps!  Good luck, and please post some updates on your projects!

DavidK

   Hi David, I am new here, but not new to model building. I have followed your build of the Black Swan as I have one ordered. You have done a beautiful job on it & I have some questions.

  I have been building models since WW2 as I am 85 & still love to do it. I have built all types of wood & plastic ships, but I have not done a rigged ship in a long while. I wanted to know exactly what your hull colors were as they are just what I want on mine. Also if you can list some of the other colors too.

  I imagine by now you are into wood ships to. I have built a bunch of them, including Mamoli's Constitution. It took about a 1000 hours with a full copper hull bottom. You are an excellent model builder & I really enjoyed all of your build posts & pictures. Thanks in advance, & I would be glad to send you pictures of my models.

                 Gene Foster

Just a quick bump to mention that anyone who's interested in buying a Zvezda Black Pearl kit, there's 2 on eBay right now for 47 plus 30 shipping....from Russia, so shipping will probably take awhile....but that's a LOT cheaper than you'll find this kit anywhere...I almost want to buy one!

If you want it, you better be quick, they won't last.

www.ebay.com/.../181732595808

Dave

Thank you kindly!

No more than you deserve David, it has been an absolute joy following you in your build and she looks amazing mate! I had a lot of fun building Zvezdas Varyag protected cruiser and have just bought their Kursk Sub. Your build is worthy of a credited feature and if I had the room, I'd consider putting her in my stash. Well done David.

Pretty neat!  I sent an email (and a pic of my Black Swan) to Zvezda to share with them how much I enjoyed building their kit, and a rep responded this morning, asking me for more pics so they can display them on their website, with full accreditation to me, of course! Very cool!

Thanks, GMorrison!  Haha...you know, I'll never live that blasted capstan down!  I believe there are some members who have a *lesser* opinion of my work because of my indifference to inauthenticity...ho-hum...:)

My reason for buying the plywood at Home Depot (1/4" is actually a bit thinner than that, and ended up  the same thickness as the kit's original material, closer to 3/16"...do you really recommend thinner? 1/8") because that way I could see it in my hands and know it was straight....do you think ordering wood online is a safe bet in terms of quality assurance?  Is Midwest a reputable online seller of modeling wood?

It's true, I really do prefer the "dramatic" design of galleon-ships (thanks for noticing my style!), and although Model Shipways seem to offer great quality kits (many people recommend them), they aren't really my style, visually.  Are you like many others, and would you recommend I stay away from the Corel Berlin, for fear that I may get frustrated and lose interest?  I really like the style of it (of course), but I also *kinda* like the Rattlesnake, from Model Shipways....just not as much...

I'm on the fence!

I guess this conversation is in the wrong context for this thread, but I'm really just looking for suggestions and advice anywhere I can!  Thanks a bunch!

Dave

David_K

About the wooden kit.  Well, let's not get ahead of ourselves....that Berlin kit is giving me trouble already....I bought some 1/4" plywood to cut out new keel/frame parts, searching through everything Home Depot had, and found 1 piece that wasn't warped beyond usability....two days later, it had warped, too!  So, I'm thinking maybe this isn't the time to get into something that's going to frustrate me every step of the way...we'll see, though...

or even an old Scientific beginner wood kit....

I would certainly recommend you give Model Shipways a look, after reading some reviews.

Scientific kits are quaint old curiosities- a big step back for you unless you are specifically interested in that kind of thing. Kind of like restoring an old tube radio.

I'd recommend that you try another from this "period" which is more like a galleon than anything else. You have a flair for the "drama" of the thing  and what I like best about your build is that you really brought some life into it. Now about that capstan...

Very nice work and a real show piece. Well done.

Sir,

Well done!

A fine ship!

Most capital.