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Post War Fletchers

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  • Member since
    September 2020
Post War Fletchers
Posted by MarvinK9 on Thursday, September 17, 2020 5:52 PM

Hi all, I'm working on a model to honor my father for his service. he was stationed on a Square Bridge Fletcher during the Korean War.  I have a 1/350 scale model of the USS Fletcher but she is a Round Bridge Fletcher. does anyone know of a conversion kit to convert this to a Square Bridge Fletcher. The kit i have is from Tamiya and i think i have all the extra detail parts from Model Monkey, Shipline (hedgehog launchers), at what Toms Model works had, but i don't have anything for the rest of the conversion. I'm also looking for any good pictures of these Fletchers for detailing purpose. does anyone have any thoughts.

Tags: Fletchers
  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, September 18, 2020 10:28 AM

The Trumpeter "The Sullivans" is a square bridge Fletcher.

Theres quite a bit of discussion on these forums. Use your browser to look them up including the terms "Fletcher" and "Finescale".

What ship? Navsource is always a good place to start.

Check Shapeways for the bridge conversion. Nothing from Model Monkey?

I'd be interested in any history you have from your dad. 

Bill

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Friday, September 18, 2020 10:32 AM

There used to be a conversion from Toms Modelworks.  White metal & soft detail resin.   Now OOP and not really missed.  

Your conversion path will likely be the Trumpeter The Sullivan's, a square bridge kit.  You will want to kit-mingle the two together.   Getting to a post-war square bridge Fletcher is more than just grafting a square deckhouse to the Tamiya kit. Other changes: houses, armament, sensors are needed.  

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Tampa, Florida, USA
Posted by steves on Friday, September 18, 2020 10:46 AM

You could try Model Monkey. He offers two types of Fletcher square bridge coversions as well as the lower bridge deck. I have ordered from him several times and have been very satisfied.

https://www.model-monkey.com/destroyers-350

 

Steve Sobieralski, Tampa Bay Ship Model Society

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Friday, September 18, 2020 11:36 AM

Hi!

    You could try the U.S.S.Kidd Muesum Site too. She's a Square bridge Fletcher! P.S. I think ( Don't qoute me) that the Kidd also had the late  war Anti Kamikaze fit!

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Friday, September 18, 2020 12:22 PM

Tanker-Builder

Hi!

    You could try the U.S.S.Kidd Muesum Site too. She's a Square bridge Fletcher!

 
The KIDD in Baton Rouge has the destinction (?) of being the last WWII destroyer in WWII fit.    For a Post-War Fletcher, look at the USS The Sullivans in Buffalo, NY.   She too is a square-bridge and received the anti-Kamikaze refit then went on during the Post-War period with other mods.   
 
 
The "Anatomy of the Ship: The USS The Sullivans" is an excellent reference.   Note that her name is The Sullivans, not Sullians
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Friday, September 18, 2020 2:00 PM

Shapeways will be your easy answer if you already have the Tamiya Fletcher.

You will need to determine whihc square bridge you need to model.

And if you need to change the after deckhouse.

Shapeways is your best source for the 3"50 Mk 22 which replaced 40mm post war.  You will need Mk 52 directors, which are also available from SHapeways.

The SPS-10 radar is on a number of generic PE sets, but the SPS-66 may take looking for.

Reference photos ought to teel you if you need FG 26' whaleboats or not.  Some of the later post war Fletchers were fitted with a pair of Mk 32 triple torpedo tube launchers (12.75" for MK 44, 46, 50 torpedoes).  Shapeways has those as well.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Boise ID area
Posted by modelcrazy on Friday, September 18, 2020 2:19 PM

Black Cat Models may have something for you. I think they are mainly WW2 but worth a look see.

https://blackcatmodels.eu/en/

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, September 18, 2020 2:53 PM

The name of the ship would be very helpful to us detail freaks.

Cassin Young also survives stateside.

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Saturday, September 19, 2020 7:33 PM

GMorrison
The name of the ship would be very helpful to us detail freaks.

Yeah, they only built 175, with (IIRC) only 19 losses, so "we" have a ton of detail infor based on name/hull number.

There are four surviving, I've been to Kidd and Young, Sullivans I might do someday (and far simpler than VELOS, nee Charrette, which is in Greece).

Built by only ten yards, too, which helps sort out details (round/square; East/West/Gulf coast; Bethlehem/"Navy pattern").

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, September 19, 2020 7:53 PM

I have the Trumpeter kit packed in salt for a build as USS Samuel B. Morrison DD560. A Seattle/ Tacoma built ship launched in 19423, sunk May 4th, 1945. Sounds like blending a Tam one would be the way to go.

 

Bill

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, September 20, 2020 2:21 PM

GMorrison
I have the Trumpeter kit packed in salt for a build as USS Samuel B. Morrison DD560.

That's good "bones" to start from.  Late-pattern square bridge oval funnel Fletcher really defines the Trumpy kit.

L'Arsenal has--slightly--better turrets, and incredibly better 40mm, and Morrison needs a pile of 40s.  Deciding which Mk 51 director for the 40s will be a matter of taste.  There are some issues with Trumpy's 5" gun director, are they worth spending AM dollars upon?  Maybe, up to the person doing the work.  Now, who has the best PE for the radar is yet another debate.

Now, DD-560 could also be built up from the RoG 1/144 Z-21, whic his a late-war, square bridge, oval funnel Fletcher.  It would need some Shapeways items, and some harder-to-source PE.  In case you wanted a kit that builds to a bit more than 31" long.

Now, the hardest thing to cope with is that none of the kits have the very visible sonar dome, and at around 6' x 6' x 3' wide ought to be visible on any full-hulll Fletcher.

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: North Carolina, USA
Posted by Model Monkey on Sunday, September 20, 2020 6:28 PM

Thanks for your patronage, MarvinK9!  And thanks for the recommendations, Steve, Bill, et al!

Post-war Fletchers can be particularly tricky to research.  Their configuration and thererfore appearance changed frequently.  No two ships were identical and variations increased as the ships aged.

The Fletcher subject matter expert you want to talk to is Rick E. Davis.  He frequents the forums on ModelWarships.com.  He has detailed references for most ships of the class.  Just let him know which ship you're interested in and a timeframe.  He enjoys helping modelers.

Thanks again!

As an aside, although all of my products were once offered via Shapeways in white acrylic, most are now 3D printed in-house at the Model Monkey workshop in gray resin.  Those models that can be printed in gray resin in-house have been removed from Shapeways.  Those models are available only through the Model Monkey catalog. 

Nameplates in paintable plastic and real metals, models with a geometry not suitable for gray resin printing, and very large models are still offered through Shapeways.

Cheers!

  • Member since
    September 2020
Posted by MarvinK9 on Sunday, September 20, 2020 8:16 PM

Thanks everyone, I have checked out model monkey and picked up a lot from them. The only thing that I was not able to pick up was the square bridged funnels,not sure if they are different or not. My biggest thing, other than buying another model, is figuring out the deck layout where the Hedgehog launchers would be at. I just might buy the sullivans and go that route not too sure yet, still need to check out the other leads that you so have me.  Again thanks for the help so far I know I'll be needing more before I'm done.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, September 20, 2020 9:08 PM

I'm curious to know the ship. If you feel comfortable listing it, I'll research the history.

 

Bill

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, September 20, 2020 10:49 PM

The funnel sections and the bridges are somewhat separate parameters. Funnel shape- correct me if I'm wrong- vary by era and builder. Bridge design is more time linear.

 

Bill

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, September 21, 2020 12:44 AM

OOP and we'll see. 

 

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Monday, September 21, 2020 6:24 AM

MarvinK9

Thanks everyone, I have checked out model monkey and picked up a lot from them. The only thing that I was not able to pick up was the square bridged funnels,not sure if they are different or not.  


Thats where the kit mingling comes in. The early round bridges had a searchlight platform on the aft funnel    Square bridges, and round bridge refits with guns at the waist, the platform was moved to the forward funnel to improve firing arcs    

Swapping them is possible, but the piping is different as are the platform shapes    (Although platform shapes varied by builders yard - check your references)   IIRC, the grills on the sides of the Trumpeter kit are soft & indistinct    Sand them & replace with the grills from Tamiya   Kit-mingling    

 

  • Member since
    September 2020
Posted by MarvinK9 on Monday, September 21, 2020 6:55 AM

The ship my dad was on is the USS Twining DD540 I know she was sold after korea then sunk.

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    September 2020
Posted by MarvinK9 on Monday, September 21, 2020 6:58 AM

She was the USS Twining DD540

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Monday, September 21, 2020 9:25 AM
  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, September 21, 2020 9:34 AM

In which, she is listed as undergoing a major refit from 3.03.51 to 6.07.51 at Mare Island.

Several good dockside photos there. 

 

Bill

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Monday, September 21, 2020 12:35 PM

Whoops!

       Remember this . Those were retractable. The Kidd's was!

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Tuesday, September 22, 2020 6:38 PM

Twinning was a west coast Bethlehem build, so, she needs "slab side" funnels--these are not called out well as AM items.

Those funnels can be spotted down to 1/700 scale

She appears to have lost seachlight platforms for the dual quad 40 mountings, at least in 1944. 

In post war guise she was a 5 turret tripod mast ship

 

Hedgehog launchers go on the 01 deck where the forward 20mm mounts were installed.

Nice write up of WWII service:  http://www.destroyerhistory.org/fletcherclass/usstwining/

In the 50s:

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Wednesday, September 23, 2020 5:33 AM

There's much to look at in the Captain's photos.  

His first is dated 1950 in the caption on NAVSOURCE.  Pole mast, 21" torpedo tube mount with tuna fish can, two sets of DC tracks

The third picture is captioned mid to late 50s.  Tripod mast, 21" torpedo mount without can.  Looks like it may still have the twin DC tracks or one may be swapped for a towed countermeasure station. .   Bet you there are 3"/50 (or is it 3"/70) guns at the waist

The second picture is later.   Hedgehogs with reload boxes present. Tripod mast. 21" toroedo gone. Triple torpedo tube mounted on waist. Towed CM station present.   Second DC track is iffy

This shows some of the problems of photo interpretation.    You need to pick a date and reference and work from that.  With luck there may be several pix which are close together, like the refit pix on Navsource which you can cobble together some assumptions

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Wednesday, September 23, 2020 9:35 AM

CapnMac82, you certain about the "slab side" funnels & the hedgehog platforms?

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=8105&start=1940

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, September 23, 2020 9:53 AM

Navsource had her listed for a refit at Mare Island from March to June 1951. Then again in late 1952 where according to Mr. Davis she received the tripod mast, per DDP's link.

That lands later in the War, your father's service could be before, during, after or a combination of the above. You of course would know.

 

Bill

 

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Wednesday, September 23, 2020 5:04 PM

ddp59

CapnMac82, you certain about the "slab side" funnels & the hedgehog platforms?

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=8105&start=1940

 

 
Yep.
See the group of sailors there on the 01 deck--Mount 52 is to one side and the port hedgehog is on the other.  There will be another on the starboard side.
 
It's hard to see, but those stacks are not eliptical in section, they have a "flat" tangent to the fore and after radii.
 
She will have a pair fo Mk 32 3"50 mounts with Mk 52 directors between the funnels.  As a five-turret Fletcher, she does not have the third Mk32 on the after deckhouse (hard to tell what is up there in this photo).  The Mk 32 replaced quad 40s on a 2 for 3 basis, so it was a question of keeping the fifth 5" or havign the radar-guided 3" mount.
 
Zoomin in, there are six K guns down the side, and (probably) two stern tracks (in the late 50 refit which mounted the Mk 28 triple torpedo tubes replacing the 5x21, deleted the K guns, the starboard stern rack would be the retained one--the port would be removed for a towable sonar unit (which was not always installed).
 
This phot is more clear about the after portion of the ship.
 
Note that shadow on both stacks wher ethe profile goes flat.  Note that the turrets retain their deck gray top painting, which was something of a WesPac tradition for a while.
Note that there is only a reload rack for the starboard stern rack.
That after deckhouse may have  aMk 52 director in it, but, it's hard to tell in the photo.
 
This image is probably of USS Boyd, one of about 5 Fletchers converted into "Squadron Leaders" with a Commodore's cabin replacign the starboard whaleboat.  My father served on Boyd, so I'm passing familiar, and Floating Drydock published the USN plan set.  Boyd got the full anti-kamikase refit, three Mk 32, dropping mount 53, rebuilt sternhouse, commodore cabin and the rest.  In 1958 Boyd got the ASW refit where the 5x21 torpedo tubes were deleted for dual triple Mk 28, all the K guns deleted, and only the starboard stern rack.
 
  • Member since
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  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Wednesday, September 23, 2020 5:15 PM

EdGrune
His first is dated 1950 in the caption on NAVSOURCE

And, naturally, a couple days late the Navsorce link is blanked out--sigh.

The guns were Mk 22 "50 in Mount Mk 32, they features two rotary auto-loading magazines per each, with a quick reload rack at the base of the platform.  Each mount needed 10 sailors, but one of thouse manned the Mk 52 Director.  Each twin mount had a circular radar dish which was used to track the outgoing PX fused shells into the director-designated target.  Pointer and trainer were only really required for anti-boat surface-to-surface fires.

That had the same basering diameter as a quad 40, but weight over runs during development meant they could only be a replacement on a 2 for 3 basis.

Far more of a success than the Weapon Able ASW that was used in LantFlt so much.  It was just a hugely over-sized hedgehog, and was a source of much grief and misery (apparently no one thought to test them being covered in North Atlantic Ice, and needing to be de-iced with hammers adn the like).

  • Member since
    September 2020
Posted by MarvinK9 on Thursday, September 24, 2020 6:39 PM

Sorry for taking so long to get back to everyone, digging up information on my dad. I remember him telling me a story about taking out a gun enplacement in wonson harbor. Which if I read things right that was sometime after coming out of the yards in 51 but by 52. So that will be the time frame I'm setting on. So with that in mind I need to start focusing on that and get photos of the end of the yard period and after she went back to sea. So help in that time frame would be appreciated. I also want to thank those of you that have shared with me, that was a big help. One thing I see is how to fix the 01 level to take in the Hedgehogs, and finding some ready service lockers, as well as the other items to detail it. still need to find out about her stacks since their was a question on that.

Tags: 1951 time
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