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Badger Stynylrez Primer

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  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Badger Stynylrez Primer
Posted by Bakster on Monday, May 18, 2020 12:00 AM

I purchased a bottle about a year ago and I have not tried it yet. I think I have the thinner as well. Last I checked, the primer has separated within the bottle. It is a gray goo at the bottom, and a murky liquid half way up. I assume it is nothing that a good shaking can't fix. I hope that is true.

I read people think Stynylrez is the bomb, some of those reports within this forum. And of course, the search feature didn't bring up the threads that I was looking for so, I thought it'd be good to start a formal discussion.

I would like to hear from people that are using it. How you like it, and how you use it. I recall Patrick mentioning that he uses a touch of, I think he said, IPA, to thin it. 

I am looking for advice because I don't want to reinvent the wheel, if I don't have to.

Thank you.

Steve

  • Member since
    July 2013
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by modelmaker66 on Monday, May 18, 2020 1:53 AM

Don't use IPA.

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: providence ,r.i.
Posted by templar1099 on Monday, May 18, 2020 5:40 AM

I've used it, stuck with the gray,not very happy with the white or black;they seem to splotch more. I also find that it's a bear to clean up,even with lacquer thinner,but it does level out nicely. I haven't seen a need to thin it out. Believe it contains a poly-resin additive.

"le plaisir delicieux et toujours nouveau d'une occupation inutile"

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Jon_a_its on Monday, May 18, 2020 5:43 AM

They vary in thickness, black thinnest, then greens, greys, to white thickest anyway.

White, Greys, greens & silver especially separate & sludge up. I drop a few 4-6mm marine grade stainless nuts in the bottle & shake it like you're at a disco! (I have seen paint shakers & jigsaws(!) modified to mix paint).

It is intended to be applied with a higher pressure than normal, and is thicker than top coats anway, so don't be unduly concerned, unless it doesn't spray.

I have heard that Badger Airbrush cleaner can help thin it a little, but I haven't tried it yet. Make sure the primer is thoroughly mixed, as above, then DECANT some into a jar BEFORE thinning SLIGHTLY.

IF it's been frozen, (Airmail, USPS via an Alaskan winter, kept in man-sheds) then contact your vendor for replacement as it's a fudgesicle, & no good.

East Mids Model Club 29th Annual Show 19th MAY 2019

 http://www.eastmidsmodelclub.co.uk/

Don't feed the CM!

 

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Monday, May 18, 2020 6:27 AM

I've been using Stynylrez for 2-1/2 years as it's become my primer of choice. I have no trouble with the black so not sure what's going on for the poster above. I keep white and black only and create the shade of grey I want from those two. The white goes down very smooth if thinned just a tiny bit with filtered or distill water, I'd say maybe only 5% water added. It goes down and dries nice by itself actually straight from the bottle but I shoot it through a .25 needle often and that 5-8% or so makes a difference, it goes on wetter looking if that makes sense. Alcohol will thin it but it accelerates it's drying and you can expect dry areas that need steel wool to smooth out ( I scuff with steel wool anyway generally, 000 gives Stynylrez a sheen that enhances gloss coat finishes).  Anyway I saw a series of articles or it may have been videos actually where Badger covered the use of Stynylrez, their recommendation is it shouldn't need thinning but if you feel it does then a small amount of water is all that is needed. That's from the horses mouth so figured I'd try it and have to say it works decent. Also if you use alcohol dilute it to 50% before adding to stynylrez. With the alcohol in there the droplets hit the surface more like solvent primer but it goes on nice anyway. I've done the alcohol thing adding a little retarder, it comes out nice. Don't add flow aid, it screws it all up. At the end of the day though, water is sufficient if you feel it needs thinner. I'd put it down straight from the bottle first though, don't let the film thickness fool you, it dries right back nice and snug into the smallest details.

On another note, shake it really well to get it mixed, it may look mixed but shake some more. When it's fully mixed it will lay down nice, but if there is still any separation present it can do funny things in the film that look like pooling but yet when dry there are no ridges from pooling but transparency is there in places, it's almost a motor oil kind of look on water. Just make sure it's really mixed well and it will perform great.

On a stubborn clean up ( and the airbrush doesn't have to sit long for it to become a stuborn clean up) 91 ipa is the best solvent I've found ( even 70% ipa works well if you can't find 91 in these times we are in ), it pretty well melts it down. Rinse with water or wash some more with warm water and dish soap, then rinse with water. Do several really good back flushings and it will come clean. Use an old paint brush or get into your cup with a Qtip is all you need to scrub with.

  • Member since
    July 2018
  • From: The Deep Woods
Posted by Tickmagnet on Monday, May 18, 2020 6:32 AM

I use stynylrez all the time and there is no need to thin it, in fact if you read the instructions on the bottle the first thing it says is no thinning necessary. Shake it real well and then spray it between 20 and 30 psi. It says you have to use a .5 needle or larger but I use a .3 with no issues at all. Great primer that does what it should.

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Monday, May 18, 2020 7:53 AM

Thank you everyone that posted. You provided some excellent input and detailed information. It gives me a good starting point. I will do some testing using the information provided.

Thanks again!

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Monday, May 18, 2020 8:20 AM

My experience has been closest to Tickmagnet.

Guessing I've been using it for 3 yrs, still on my original bottles. I haven't had a reason to thin it it yet, I'm spraying through an Iwata with .5mm needle/nozzle. I spray it just under 25 psi.

This is the only primer product I've ever used that I can spray, clean the a/b, and it's time to paint.

I normally use Badger airbrush cleaner to clean up.

-Greg

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Monday, May 18, 2020 8:56 AM

Yes I shoot it at around 25psi as well. I don't always put in that slight thinning either, kind of depends on my mood, which is why I mentioned shooting straight from the bottle first. Mostly I do that for the .25 nozzle and it works great. And on many model parts I just put down one thin coat too, just enough to cover the bare plastic.

Mainly I just wanted to pass on Badgers comments that it shouldn't need thinning, if you feel it needs it anyway, just a small amount of water is the suggested way. It doesn't say that on the bottle, the Badger rep said that, fwiw.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Monday, May 18, 2020 9:12 AM

Greg

My experience has been closest to Tickmagnet.

Guessing I've been using it for 3 yrs, still on my original bottles. I haven't had a reason to thin it it yet, I'm spraying through an Iwata with .5mm needle/nozzle. I spray it just under 25 psi.

This is the only primer product I've ever used that I can spray, clean the a/b, and it's time to paint.

I normally use Badger airbrush cleaner to clean up.

 

Yes

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Monday, May 18, 2020 9:13 AM

oldermodelguy

Yes I shoot it at around 25psi as well. I don't always put in that slight thinning either, kind of depends on my mood, which is why I mentioned shooting straight from the bottle first. Mostly I do that for the .25 nozzle and it works great. And on many model parts I just put down one thin coat too, just enough to cover the bare plastic.

Mainly I just wanted to pass on Badgers comments that it shouldn't need thinning, if you feel it needs it anyway, just a small amount of water is the suggested way. It doesn't say that on the bottle, the Badger rep said that, fwiw.

 

Yes

In a bit I will take a closer look at my bottle and see if it is blocked up. I will report back later.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Monday, May 18, 2020 10:42 AM

The arrows show the speration, as best as I can tell. The bottle still has the factory seal, not opened. There is plenty of fluid when I shake it. I am guessing that if I give a good long shake--it should be OK.  I will try spraying some of this tonight and see how it goes. 

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Monday, May 18, 2020 11:36 AM

Unless it got frozen it should be fine after a good shake. Best I can say is mine has always gone back together.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Monday, May 18, 2020 11:55 AM

oldermodelguy

Unless it got frozen it should be fine after a good shake. Best I can say is mine has always gone back together.

 

Sounds good.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, May 18, 2020 1:26 PM

Bakster


I read people think Stynylrez is the bomb, some of those reports within this forum. And of course, the search feature didn't bring up the threads that I was looking for so, I thought it'd be good to start a formal discussion.

The search feature is useless. I use google- enter finescale forum and whatever else you can remember and it comes right up.

Example:

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/t/172476.aspx

I'm glad you started this up- I'm looking for a better black primer.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Monday, May 18, 2020 1:57 PM

Just fwiw, the only thing I don't like about Stynylrez is the squirt nozzle. Not that it's terrible but it is inefficient. IMO

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Monday, May 18, 2020 2:32 PM

oldermodelguy

Unless it got frozen it should be fine after a good shake. Best I can say is mine has always gone back together.

 

For what it's worth, me too so far.

-Greg

  • Member since
    March 2013
Posted by patrick206 on Monday, May 18, 2020 3:54 PM

Steve - My normal use for the gray primer is for both a surface prep, and a slight imperfection filler. That I usually shoot straight from the bottle.

After that, I usually thin it about 5-10% with either distilled water, or alcohol. I think the alcohol gives me a little better "flow out," meaning the primer lays down a bit smoother for easier sighting of remaining flaws. Those secondary coats I do in multiple layers. I do think the alcohol does give me a bit faster drying time, but not a significant amount.

Just my personal discipline, but I never spray any paint or primer without a stirring of the bottle, to ensure complete blending of all of the ingredients. A waste of time?? Not for me, I believe if it's not a complete blend, you didn't get the full benefit of the product you paid for, and maybe not the desired end result.

When I incorporate a thorough stirring, I almost always find some thick material at the bottom of the paddle, that didn't make it's way into the carrier agent. It doesn't really add that much additional time, as an old retired bugger, that's about the only thing I have plenty of.

Patrick

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Monday, May 18, 2020 4:46 PM

patrick206
Steve - My normal use for the gray primer is for both a surface prep, and a slight imperfection filler. That I usually shoot straight from the bottle.

Patrick, that is my goal as well.

What a wealth of knowledge. You guys exceeded my hopes, by far. I am honored by your responses and the time you took to write them. This is a big help.

Thanks to all that shared their knowledge on this.

I look forward to trying this stuff!  Yes

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Monday, May 18, 2020 4:51 PM

Bill, glad to hear it.  

Btw. I did try the Google method. You shared that tip with me another time and it does work. Unfortunately, this time, not so much. What I was looking for was buried in a generic primer post. I think that skewed what came up.

Thanks for the suggestion, and I am glad this post is helping you too. Yes

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Monday, May 18, 2020 9:49 PM

Hi Guys. Another rainy night here in WI, down to the dungeon I went. I took what I learned from your posts and I tried some things. Btw. This is neither here nor there. My tests are not the ultimate authority. I am just letting you know what I observed and how it worked out for me.

(Using my Badger 155 Anthem brush)

1. No thinner, straight from the bottle. The paint sprayed through the brush, but I found the finish too grainy, and it was a bit odd to apply, somewhat of a struggle. 

2. Thinned with a little water. The paint tended to sperate on the piece providing uneven coverage. (Blotchy). I quickly abandoned this option. For the record, I used tap water, not distilled.

3. Thinned with a little bit of Tamiya X22A. (Thought I'd try it).  Nope. I had terrible paint separation on the piece. Abandoned the idea.

4. Thinned with IPA. Now, we are getting somewhere. The paint covered well but it did tend to dry a little fast, as Patrick stated it will do. I found myself applying heavier coats in order to keep the grain down. But thus far--this was progress. I should mention that I didn't need a lot of thinning. Several drops in the paint cup was enough to cut it nicely.

5. Thinned with IPA, and two drops of paint retarder. The paint sprayed on extremely wet, and it was slow to dry...obviously. Coverage was good but because it went on so wet, I had to be careful to not cause runs. This was too iffy.

6. Thinned with IPA, and two drops of flow improver. Bingo! Now we are talking. There was good coverage, and it was not too dry. Of all the options, this fought me the least. I was able to put the paint on heavy or light without fear of grain buildup. Also, though it went on fairly wet, it dried just quick enough where I didn't fear drips or sags. This worked well for me.

Once I cleaned the brush, I went back to inspect 4, 5, and 6. Grain appeared to be the same on all three, maybe slightly less with my using the paint retarder on step 4. However, that piece had a tacky feel to it while 5 and 6 were dry to the touch. So, the retarder did its job, but I don't see any benefit to use it.

Overall, I feel the grain was pretty small. For my taste though, I'd want to give it a light sanding. I will do that tomorrow and maybe do a tape test too.

That's how it went, guys. I will report tomorrow about the sanding, just for grins.

Thanks again for the help.

 

PS: I found the paint to be low odor. I am sensitive to fumes and this did not bother me much. In fact, the IPA bothered me more than the paint did.

 

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by modelmaker66 on Monday, May 18, 2020 11:02 PM

modelmaker66

Don't use IPA.

 

My mistake there! That is applicable to Vallejo primer. Don't use in the Vallejo or it will gum up. Stynlrez is great primer but I don't thin it.Oops

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Great Southern Land
Posted by damouav on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 5:31 AM

I've used the stuff for a couple of years and havent looked back. Never needed to thin and cleanup in water. This stuff, when shot from an AB gives a perefct key for most finishes.

When dry its super easy to sand, will not peel or flake. Cant get enough of the stuff!

I used Vallejo primer once,  a full bottle went in the bin. It dosent come close to Stynlrez.

FWIW.

In Progress
1/48 Tamiya P47-D Bubbletop
1/48 Hobby Boss TBF-1C Avenger (on hold)
Pending
1/48 Roden S.E.5a
1/48 Airfix Walrus
  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 6:10 AM

What size needle and what air pressure were you shooting at and how far from the subject surface ?

I'm not suprised all your end results look similar, it self levels nice no matter how it looked going on. My little thinning I do is mostly to get a nice flow through that .25 needle when I use it. If the .5 is on my Badger or if I grab my Paasche with .6 I shoot it straight up out of the bottle. I don't add anything.

Your ipa and retarder test sounds like you put in too much retarder. The dry times shouldn't be that drastically different. Maybe an added hour to lose that tacky feel. Either way wait overnight to sand. I don't sand anyway, I use 000 steel wool and kind of polish up the surface, remove dust specks etc..

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 9:37 AM

damouav

I've used the stuff for a couple of years and havent looked back. Never needed to thin and cleanup in water. This stuff, when shot from an AB gives a perefct key for most finishes.

When dry its super easy to sand, will not peel or flake. Cant get enough of the stuff!

I used Vallejo primer once,  a full bottle went in the bin. It dosent come close to Stynlrez.

FWIW.

 

An excellent endorsement. Your statements follow what I have seen by others. What I find particularly encouraging is its sandability. 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 9:41 AM

oldermodelguy
What size needle and what air pressure were you shooting at and how far from the subject surface ?

.5 is what I used. That is pretty much my go to needle for general work.

oldermodelguy
Your ipa and retarder test sounds like you put in too much retarder.

I agree. I am learning a little goes a long way. I think I put two drops of it.

oldermodelguy
I don't sand anyway, I use 000 steel wool and kind of polish up the surface, remove dust specks etc..

Interesting. I will keep that in mind and I will need to get some.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 11:07 AM

Bakster
1. No thinner, straight from the bottle. The paint sprayed through the brush, but I found the finish too grainy, and it was a bit odd to apply, somewhat of a struggle.

That's about as far as need to read. Starting to wonder if you might have a bad bottle, or one that has been frozen. None of this should be happening. Your grainy finish report is especially troublesome.

I'm starting to wonder about that separation too. Not sure, though.

-Greg

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 11:56 AM

Bakster

 

.5 is what I used. That is pretty much my go to needle for general work.

 

I agree. I am learning a little goes a long way. I think I put two drops of it.

 

Interesting. I will keep that in mind and I will need to get some.

 

 It should have sprayed fine from the bottle with that .5 tip and someplace over 20 psi straight up. Maybe you didn't really get the separation fully mixed back together, it can do funny things if not ( been there done that). Just shaking might not be enough, you might have to get something in there and stir it up, then shake some more. Assuming it's not a bad batch as Greg mentioned.

I have 4-6 drops or so of retarder in 3oz of thinner I make up in a 3oz sqeeze bottle. That goes into various acrylic paints. I don't drip the retarder directly into the airbrush cup.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 1:50 PM

Greg
Starting to wonder if you might have a bad bottle

Possibly so. I got it to work though, so I'll run with it.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 1:52 PM

oldermodelguy
Maybe you didn't really get the separation fully mixed back together, it can do funny things if not ( been there done that). Just shaking might not be enough, you might have to get something in there and stir it up, then shake some more. Assuming it's not a bad batch as Greg mentioned. I have 4-6 drops or so of retarder in 3oz of thinner I make up in a 3oz sqeeze bottle. That goes into various acrylic paints. I don't drip it into the airbrush cup. Add Quote to your Post

I will check to see if there is sludge at the bottom. I will get back on that.

Also--that is a good tip about the retarder!

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