French POW dio WIP **update: 2/26/09 pg 11**

That barn is AAAMMMAAAAZZZZIIIIINNNNNGGG! looks like you've put sooooo much work into it hope the dio trurns out how you wont it.

  Steve your barn is a true piece of art, just wonderful. I hope you dont mind if I save some pics for future reference.

Man!...............................................I'm just speechless!

AMAZING!!!!

Reminds me of our barn at home and that is a high complement. I love that barn.  It means more to me than the house does. It is a pegged beam affair. 

One of the details I can see you useing would be a hay fork and tackle mounted outside the loft window to raise hay from the wagon to the loft.  I'll try to find a pic for you. I can probably get one of ours if I can't find one. I know how to use one and fix one but I can't recall the proper name for it.  We still use it if a bale breaks. 

If they had switched to bales then a couple hay hooks would be hanging up, maybe even have something else being hung from it.

Steve, as everyone else has commented AMAZING work!!!  I really like it all!!  Excellent, excellent work!! 

A couple of questions though:

1) What'd you use for the ornate hinges on the large, lower door??  Are those AM photoetch or did you do that yourself?

2) How'd you get the straight pin bolts to work?  I've tried that, but when I snipped the remaining straight pin off, it tore out the section of the pin I wanted to stay put...

3) What'd you use for the nut/bolt on the inside of the doors and on top of the main ridgepole beam?? 

Keep up the SUPERB work and keep on posting!!!  You just keep whetting my appetite with each posting and pic!!! 

Thanks, guys!

stick man: appreciate it! I won't be truly happy with the barn until I have it painted. Then we'll see

panzerguy: thank you very much! I wouldn't mind at all! Very flattering

Manstein: Best of Show is a little out of my range, but I appreciate the thought... I know we've all talked about the guy who brings in the biggest dio and walks away with all the awards- I would hope mine doesn't get viewed like this by others. It is pretty tall, though.

doog: "speechless" is an honor, but I do welcome your critique. I know that, through Jen, you've been around horses and, therefore- by proxy, perhaps- you've been around barns. your eye for detail is remarkable, and any suggestions you have would be most  appreciated.

vespa: praise for the details, from you, is like praise from the professor

cassibill: thank you for the suggestions. I'd would really love to see any pics you may have. It's the little stuff that will bring this barn out of being generic, into something that's really personalized. I'm scouring the net for photos of barn and horse tack.

senojrn: thank you again for your compliments. To answer your questions, real quick like (runing late for stupid work):

- large door hinges are cut from Custom Dioramics Ornate Fence.

- drilled holes, glued dressmaker's pins, trimmed with pliers. The remaining pins only started to lose position when I tried to file them. But thin CA goes a long way with securing them. Hence, all the glue stains.

- the bolts on the inside are from CMK (?). AM product, all I did was cut 'em off the spue. 

Ian:  as always, thank you very much!! Buddho kicks my when it comes to this stuff, but I am flattered that you put in his leaque. I'm sure we'd all love to see the dock you're working on. Your boat is stunning.

I've put the barn to the side, and continued work on the figures. This is usually the point where I knock the structure off of the table and it shatters on the floor before my eyes.

Steve

I'll help as much as I can.  Here's some of the things you see hanging in a barn:

Pulleys or sometime simply ropes over a beam to lift

Hay hooks- We've got 4-5 and they are all at least a little different.  Easily made by a blacksmith they show a lot of variation Here's some pics I found.

Chain for heavy moving like logs and small sheds built on runners.

Pitchforks (3 and/or 4 tine),  Shovels, spades, rake, hoe, post hole digger

Axes and hatchets, you use a hatchet quite a bit for things like chopping holes in the rain barrels and troughs and busting gounds to feed cows.

Scythes and corn knives, We've got several corn knives and 2 machettes.  Corn knives have an edge but no point.

Pails- for milk, grain, water, anything

Bushel baskets- emptys mostly, full ones would have been in the root celler

A scoop for feed

A corn sheller and a grinder

Crates and barrels- Barrels were mostly outside to catch water but one or two inside to hold grain that had been shelled, cracked,... processed in some way.  Crates are a big catch all.  They were kept in case they were needed and always end up with stuff in them, frequently gunny sacks, saddle bags, whatever has no other place at the moment or that just gets left there.  A crate with sacks in it or the lid covering part of it or both is a prime spot for a cat to have kittens. My old mama cat had her 2 yr olds in a crate of sacks in the barn.  We also have a pianobox used to store grain!

Carpenter's tools, two man saw, general purpose ladder, wash tubs that have been replaced with newer ones in the house, brace and bit, kegs of nails, odds and ends lumber or sheet metal, windows

A lantern or 2, kept well clear of the hay and stock.

Meat hooks, scalding and rendering kettles

Chicken crates, stock tack, livestock bells, sheep shears, horse shoes, any horse or ox drawn implement or cart, sleds, bicycles, just about anything that needed inside that didn't go in the house.

Garages and garden sheds come later as farming expands or not at all it the room is lacking.  The house and the barn come together.  Stuff may get moved from the barn to another building but not the other way unless the building is being moved, repaired or torn down.  I've seen sheds and covered feeders built in sections inside in the winter and assembled outside when weather let up.  Remember storing is a matter of creativity and thinking in 3-D. A ladder can be stored in the air, laying between two crossbeams. Same with light implements. Things get re-purposed with time. An old, leaky wash tub will still feed sheep. Old horse shoes become hangers.  Old, worn or damaged tack gets kept for parts. Same with equipment. A low (40") movable "gate" or partition (simply a wooden frame with board across it and maybe a diagonal brace) used to separate small, sick, or young stock from the rest on occassion, like when a ewe has lambs. 

What kind of hitch will your cart have?  A tongue or staves or have you not decided or know yet.  How the cart is made will dictate what kind of tack is used. Staves are for one animal. A tongue(double-tree) is for two.  You either will need a double set up or single, for oxen or horses depending.

Tell me what you see and I'll help from there.

cassibill: This is fantastic information, I can't thank you enough! Some of this stuff was on my list, others I never would have thought of in a million years. I had plans for building shelves in there and loading them up with storage. Ideas rushing through my mind now.

The cart is single horse. Here's a shot of it- far from finished but assembled enough to give me an idea of the room I will need for it:

Thanks so much for taking the time to write all of that out for me.

Steve

Steve you may get some inspirartion by looking at the models of Chuck Doan who creates barn/workshop clutter in amazing detail. A lot of his photos look like the real thing but don't be fooled.

http://public.fotki.com/ChuckDoan/

Thanks for that Vespa. I just threw my barn away

Seriously, that is some amazing work. I have bookmarked that site, and have begun re-thinking my ladder. 

Steve

No problem.  I even forgot a few things. 

Mom added milk cans and salt- block or a bag of loose salt for the animals.  We use a block but some horses try to bite it and damage their teeth so you use loose salt for them. 

Baling wire is another one. It was the original duck tape. You used it even if you didn't bale. There as all sorts of stuff my granddad fixed with it around here, including the battery shelf on the tractor and a few tools.

Cans of paint and pine tar.  We still have part of a can of pine tar to use on hoof cracks and sores to keep bugs off and prevent chewing.

Saw horses-  A few boards across them and stuff was on top of them and under them.  Getting them when needed was a trick though.  You can do the same with  barrels and crates, anything of a similar height, maybe even between a crosspiece and a barrel.

Broom- probably the old one from the house now used to round up bits of hay and grain, and clear snow, much like taking the old dish sponge and using it on the counters or rotating your tires.

Chickens- just because they are provided with a nice hen house doesn't mean they use it.  They like to roost high and a barn has some nice spots, plus the grain the cattle and horses spill is tempting.  Our geese often check the horse manger for leftover grain.  Great place to hide a nest in all that clutter. One hen nested in a bucket back behind stuff. Our mother goose likes the leftover hay at the less used end of the manger.

Some hay or straw and perhaps an old blanket or coat in an out of the way spot for the dog. Our Border Collie slept under the ladder to the hay mow...so the cat had her kittens in the nearby crate to provide a bit of a deterent for raccoons, etc.

One horse cart means a collar harness. Not a bad wiki article

Thanks a million, cassibill... this is amazing information, invaluable. I will take all of this into consideration when it comes time to giving my barn it's character.

Steve

SteveM wrote:

cassibill: This is fantastic information, I can't thank you enough! Some of this stuff was on my list, others I never would have thought of in a million years. I had plans for building shelves in there and loading them up with storage. Ideas rushing through my mind now. The cart is single horse. Here's a shot of it- far from finished but assembled enough to give me an idea of the room I will need for it: Thanks so much for taking the time to write all of that out for me. Steve

Now of course, you want to make sure you don't put the cart before the horse!

Cassibill definitely seems to know what she's talking about. If she lives on a farm or grew up on one and has pictures, perhaps she can post a few.

Way back when, farmers almost never threw anything away. If some machine or tool was unable to perform its normal function anymore, it was recycled and modified to do something else. It might be jerry-rigged or cobbled together with some other old equipment that had been lying around for who-knows-how-long, and look clumsy, but if it worked, that was all that mattered. It didn't have to look "pretty."

I live on the same farm my grandfather bought in '65 with my mom's help.  She worked at a factory and helped make the payments and Pa farmed so he paid when he had money.  I've lived there all my life.  I know how to do things the OLD way. I clear brush with a machette and weed whip and saw up limbs with a bow saw.  I've been in enough old barns, I can tell you about the man who used by looking.  How big is the manger?  How wide apart are the stantions?  How are the stalls made or are there any?

That old barn is definitely showing its age.  It's the old notched and pegged type.  The 2"x4"s are closer to 3"x5" and axe hewn. Some parts have had the boards replaced and the bay doors were redone when I was very small. Some parts need work like the manger. We bought the post anchor, but haven't re-anchored it.  Some parts are down and it will be like a puzzle to reassemble.  Old little old stallion was a bit wound up last winter when he feet were bothering him.  A pic of the manger door latch would be interesting.  The boards are notched above it so you can reach through from the manger side to lift the latch.  I post pics of the 40+ years of clutter and his head will explode.  Steel drums, plastic reindeer, cages, plastic tubs, Mom's ceramic molds that are waiting on a workshop to be built, a hay elevator that I don't recall ever using, saddle rack, and who knows what else are there along with a roll of fence, milk cans, kegs, tack, crates, and a horse drawn plow sitting up in the auxillery mow.  I want to inspire him, not make his head explode.  I can take some pics, but as I haven't acquired a digital camera, I'll have to finish a roll of film and drop it off, but I have kittens and a bunny that could use some baby pictures so that may not be much of a problem.

Wooden spools, a spare wagon wheel (or one being mended), ricked wood, a wheel barrow, and handles for tools that haven't been put on yet are a couple things I thought of.  Depends on the time of year.  A grindstone maybe.  Cracked or chipped dishes from the house for the dog or cats or chickens, whatever.  I could probably come up with a template to make a chicken feeder. (I've been thinking of coming up with one to try doing a PE one. I've been toying with a farm diorama from say the '20's.[Just struck me, in 1/35 a feeder could be made out of a light cardstock all but the reel and that could be rod or sprue. Hmm... where is that set with the 1/35 chickens in it...])  I've seen homemade ones from sheet metal and a broom handle, so a passible one is very possible. 

Jim is right about some wicked jury-rigging.  A wheel hub from a car or truck with a short metal or wooden axle through it can be used in place of a normal pulley.  My granddad used hubs a T shaped pipe driven through it into the ground to stake his hounds.  The chain was fastened to the hub that spun freely and thus didn't tangle. A piece of scrap metal nailed over a hole in a wall or box.  A tin can with part of the side out or simply peeled partly back then re-fastened can be a socket for a post or chicken roost or even used as a small scoop, especially is Dad's Little Helper needs one. I've been the creative mind behind some repairs myself.  There are currently 4 hay strings and part of a ladder barring our old horses from accessing the part of the pasture with a fence down.  I bent a steel rod to make a latch on a rabbit hutch.  I used a couple of bits of scrap steel tubing and misc. bits to replace the heat dial on an S-10. Fixed a hammock frame with a scrap of wood and a large cup hook. I think it is in the genes.  I've seen part of a tractor wheel with some rods welded to it with an upper rim added used as a sheep hay feeder.  Along the same line a steel drum or an old tank like from a water heater sliced long ways with feet and a couple cross bars added across the top for strength can make a nice feed or water trough.  We have several around the farm and they last forever.  A little spot welding can fix a leak or it can simply be "demoted" to a feeder.  Granddad always said "Don't say you can't 'til you've tried three times."

I don't generally double post, but I cooked this up. No idea how it'd turn out but here it is if you want to use it. Just tell me how it works.  I used Trump. chickens to help me size it.

No idea why the bottom of the right end is appearing as a solid line and not a dashed one.

1. Print on a paper consistant with the gauge of metal you want.

2. Cut on solid lines.

3. Decide which side is the inside, use the dot on either end as a locator, and use a blunt needle or pin to emboss a raised dot on the outside to represent the head of the reel's securing nail.

4. Fold on dotted lines.

5. Glue tabs inside.

6. Cut a piece of plastic rod, sprue, wire, round toothpick, etc, with a scale diameter no larger than a broom handle, to the inside length off the feeder and glue.

7. Paint the body to represent aluminium or steel (maybe even a little rust).

8. Paint reel to represent the supposed material of construction or red (reels are frequently red to attract chickens and encourage pecking.).

9. Secure to location.

10. Optional- Add material to represent feed.  Pale yellowish pastel dust or something like it would be ground corn or something coarser and yellow could be corn. 

hmmmm... that chicken feeder has got me thinking. There is a small  section of the interior that has been closed- at least on three sides. I had planned on fixing scale chicken wire to the sides to imply it's purpose. A feeder in there would seal the deal. Too small a space (represented) to actually add the birds, in my opinion. But that feeder idea...

I have raided my spares, accessories, and miscellaneous bins and have come up with a lot of storage and clutter that seems appropriate for a barn. Now, having read your posts, I am going back in to find items that have more of a "salvage" implication.

Thank you so much for all of this information, cassibill and Jim. It has helped me to visualize this interior in ways that I couldn't before. The internet has provided some good reference shots, but your posts have given me some specifics that the web hasn't.

I'll get some more progress shots up shortly.

Steve

Steve,

If you're still looking for some farm equipment, here's a Historex 1/32 set at a reasonable price:  http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=HX30AC002.

I have one of these sets, and the stuff is pretty good (in my opinion) for WWII era European farm stuff!! 

Or, here's another one from Custom Dioramics:  http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=CD6043.

Hope this helps! 

Looking forward to seeing more pics of your progress!

You mostly keep chickens penned up to keep varmits out.  If you are going to be around and they are tame, you can let them out and close them up at night.  If so they can be anywhere during the day and they'll show up at supper time.  Our geese are like that.  They wander off and you may not see them at all until suppertime.  We've got a hen that wanders around while we're feeding and we simply pick her up and set her in the coop and close it when we're finished.  Your's is daytime and they're out chasing bugs.

I'm glad you like the feeder.  My mother said it looked pretty good and she's seen a lot of equipment and has worked on a lot of it. 

Oh yes, stuff gets "repurposed" all the time.  Two horseshoes will hold a ladder. I've got a body and handle from an old lawnmower on its way to becoming a cart. Fed a dog in hubcap. It was the only thing he didn't chew up or carry off. Granddad used a railcar axle as a pole for a birdhouse and old ties as posts. Knew a guy who worked for the line and bought stuff from them out of their scrap. Used an old car body as a covered hay feeder. Military crates frequently long out survive the war.  Most old barns around here have a couple ammo crates with stuff in them.  When the crate falls apart the hardware gets reused.  We've got 4 large cages and a couple sheds that use the hinges off of old ammo boxes and the cages use the latches as well.  Last summer at an estate auction, I picked up an aircraft rocket crate with misc hardware and parts in it for $1.  I wanted the crate and the contents are useful.  Picked up a "new" hitch pin for the tractor out of it.  I can only imagine what things old farmers could cook up out of military salvage.  Road wheels would probably see uses as heavy duty pulleys. Two with a pole in the middle of each and a line between wouldn't be a bad portable clothesline.  Pioneer tools would definitely get picked up.  We keep a Vietnam era E-tool under the car seat for emergency use, like digging out of snow and drive-by gardening. Towhooks would get scrounged. A tank barrel could probably be cut down into an axle, post, or just used as a support or brace of some sort. "Swords being beaten into plowshares." Stowage racks or baskets would find other uses.  When money is tight and junk abounds, "Mother Necessity" steps in.

I've been eyeing that Historex set myself.  It looks good and with farm equipment a few points of scale don't matter.  Most of it was made at home or by a local craftsman anyway with little standardization.

SteveM wrote:

Some progress pictures on the barn. 2 doors = 12 hours... told ya'll I'm slow. Still have to do the 2 doors for the ventalation windows, but I'll probably keep them off the structure until after painting (at least the one above the larger door). All commens, critiques welcome.   Making the hinges and bolts:   These glue spots make it evident that the barn will be painted, not stained. But I'd rather make sure the doors, hinges, latches stay put: Oh, yeah... still need to attach the hinges on the hinges on this one     Thanks for looking. Steve

Steve,

your barn looks good, but it has a western US ranch look to it as might be found in Idaho, Wyoming or Montana.  Another thing is that the French were not very mechanical farmers like the US.  They had very few tractors, and metal equipment.  The French didn't grow corn as they came later after the War.  The Germans were the same way.  A few farmers would have a horse-drawn mower, and maybe a dump rake.  The mower would have 4ft sickle bar on it as even the British only had 4ft bars on their mowers.  My uncle pissed off the English farmer who was mowing his grain in preparation for binding and threshing it next to my uncle's B-17 dispersal area.  He asked him, I see you are using a 4ft mower.  We threw those things away years ago.  Cassibill,sorry to say this but you are getting alittle too Americanized.  They didn't have much equipment and tools and alot of it was old. 

If you want to get technical, most ranch barns are 1-1 1/2 story affairs designed for ranging stock and horses and limited fodder storage. Sort of like a beefed up loafing shed with maybe a crib, with the odd horse barn exception. Lofts are linked with dairy barns and mixed use designs like 3-Bay English, Dutch, and Bank Barns.  A Dutch type barn is pretty Germanic in style, with the roof nearly reaching the ground, much like the thatched hall. France near the German border most likely. 

Northern France and the Low Countries ->    I've got pics of these from Belgium from my trip in '03.  They're at my sister's though at the moment.  They still work horses in a lot of instances. 

Crop-wise wheat and oats followed by hay and barley would be most common.  Hay is either left in a stack or lofted. This can be in its loose form or baled.  The modern baler has only existed since Power Take Off for the tractor.  The binder or a hay press was much, much older.  The box binder that used twine pre-dates the American Civil War.  The kind that used wire was used several years before that and willow canes and ash bark strips predate that by at least a couple decades.  Horses brought the dried hay in by wagon.  It was forked into the box.  when the chute was filled, the plate was placed on the top and then winched tighter and tighter until compress.  The retension material of choice was fed through the holes and channels and tied. Baling is a space saver.

You have the horse-drawn plow.

You then sow a field. You can do it by hand.  We still sow the hay field by hand, walking it on foot.  The next update is a grain drill which is drawn by horses or oxen.

Hoes and rakes are pretty old tools.  Wood rakes saw some more recent use.  The wood teeth are a little fragile in some situations but for light work they are lighter to use. Scythes, sickles, and cradles are your grain harvesters of yorn.  Mechanical, drawn reapers date to the early 1800's.

Storing grain is a tricky affair.  It has to dry, but it draws vermin and is easily lost.  It has to be threshed and winnowed, dryed, and stored.  Threshing is very labor intensive and takes a lot of people.  Hence the phrase "Feeding you is like feeding a threshing crew."

Horse drawn, slip scoops were used for a very long time.  I know of a hospital's basement being dug by slip scoop in the 1920's still.

Small fields= small equipment, mostly horse drawn.  It's simply good sense. That's why my grandfather kept horse-drawn equipment to use if need be and his "big" equipment was a Ferguson 30 dating from the early 1950's even in the '70s. That's what we still use. I think the Fergie still's the most modern piece of farm equipment we own if you ignore lawn mowers. We CAN'T use implements over 4 ft in most types. The Ferg can't take it.  Makes equipment and part buying a trick though sometimes cheap since no one really wants them anymore!  Cheaper and easier to get fuel for a team.

Rich- What are you using as definitions of "tool" and "equipment"?  I usually consider "equipment" to be anything a single man can't use alone in most cases, like horse or ox drawn items or a binder which can use up to 6 men or so.  "Tools" are hoes, rakes, flails (forgot about that one on my earlier lists, Steve. Sorry), axes, hand driven pumps, etc (hand tools). I focused mostly on tools that are fairly universal.  A shovel's a shovel for the most part.  A hand cranked grinder used for cracking grain or grinding it for the family's use as well as the stock's not modern.  Most everything I mentioned could be found on an American farm by at least 1920 and most likely a decade or 2 before probably more.  The important thing about a barn is the catch all nature.  There is little that is out of place in a barn.  That is what I wanted to show.  Hording stuff in the barn is an old practice and will never die.

senorjn, Wirraway, Nick, cassibill, and rich...

Thanks to all for the encouragement, help and comments. I will do my best at keeping the barn as Euro-styled as possible. The storage and equipment information has really assisting in getting my mental picture together.

senorn- thanks for the links. I've been eyeing some of those farm aquipment sets but, when I see the prices on some of them, I lean towards scratchbuilding what I need. However, since I am imaptient and sloppy, I might actually end up ordering one of those sets

For the last couple of weeks, I've only been able to devote an hour or so a night to the project, so not much in the way of progress for pictures.

If anybody has some good, clear pix of cart-to-horse tack, I'd be grateful. The web hasn't provided much of what I'm looking for. Tried dozens of searches. Don't want to make this stuff up, either.

Thanks again, all, hopefully more progress to show by the end of the weekend.

Steve