French POW dio WIP **update: 2/26/09 pg 11**

Thanks, Manny... I appreciate you pushing for the aged look inside. I'm more pleased with the results. Hard to tell with the photos, my photography skills are still lagging. I plan on dusting it up in there to some degree, as well, when all of the storge is in place.

  Ok enough with the reference photo's show us your barn.....

  ....... .. holy #@&* that is your barn!

An artist, man!

You are an ARTIST!

Leonardo's got nuthin on you, Steve! 

W

O

W

!

Steve, beav, Ian, and doog...

I want to thank you, belatedly, for your compliments. My apologies for the delayed response. I haven't forgotten about this dio. I have entered the world of figure painting, which slows me down even more than the usual snail's pace. I've got a german squad of 6, 2 french infantry, and 2 french civilians, to paint up. The germans are mostly finished... mostly.

Here is the unterofiizier. He is the only figure I've considered complete. If you see anything wrong, or in need, please don't hesitate to speak up. The paints and brushed are strewn across the workbench, and edits/changes won't be hard to pull off.

Minor progress; I've had to begin my group build subject (Steyr RSO/01) for the Service and Supply GB. When I joined, December 31st seemed so far away.

Thanks for looking, if you are looking.

Steve

Ahh... good catch, thx Hans. I'll commence with the battlefield commission today

Thanks for looking Nick. 

That is awsome... simply.. awsome..

And yeah, fix those collars!

And again, that's just awsome! awsomness.... 

SteveM wrote:

Ahh... good catch, thx Hans. I'll commence with the battlefield commission today

No sweat, Pard...

I skipped a rank and promoted him to an Oberleutnant, as the shoulder boards came molded with a single pip. I suppose that leaves me with the question of "would it have been" possible for a small squad to consist of an Oberleutnant, plus a few Gefreiters and a couple of Obergefreiters? Should or shouldn't there be an NCO, senior or junior?

I'm getting lost.

Huxy, thanks for the nice words.

SteveM wrote:

I skipped a rank and promoted him to an Oberleutnant, as the shoulder boards came molded with a single pip. I suppose that leaves me with the question of "would it have been" possible for a small squad to consist of an Oberleutnant, plus a few Gefreiters and a couple of Obergefreiters? Should or shouldn't there be an NCO, senior or junior?

Sure... Either rank could be a platoon leader, but there are no O's at squad level... German (Heer) rifle platoons were organized more or less the same as US Army infantry platoons, except the German Heer squad revolved around the machine guns (MG 42 from 1942 onwards, MG 34 prior to that) and mortar team, rather than the US pratice of the machine gun being a platoon weapon and the mortars in the weapons platoon.  There's one NCO as a Platoon Sergeant (Oberfeldwebel) and a squad leader (Unteroffizier or Unterfeldwebel)...  It's entirely possible that a Leutnant could lead a squad from his platoon on a patrol, along with the squad leader (Gruppenführer) , while the Oberfeldwebel stays back in charge of the rest of the platoon...

A typical Heer Infanterie squad (three or four squads to a platoon depending on the year and division) would be made up of one Sergeant or Corporal, (Keep in mind that Obergefreiter and Unteroffizier are both corporals, but the Unteroffizier has a command) and a mixed bag of Privates (Shutze) and Privates First Class (Obershutze), Lance Corporals (Gefreiter), as riflemen, and Obergefeiter (Corporal) machine gunners and motar chiefs... There's also the rank of Obergefreiter that has a  chevron & pip instead of a second chevron. That pip denotes a Corporal with more than 6 years of service.. There's also a Stabsgefreiter (two chevrons and a pip) but that rank is administrative only..

Clear as mud, eh?

Hans von Hammer wrote:

SteveM wrote: I skipped a rank and promoted him to an Oberleutnant, as the shoulder boards came molded with a single pip. I suppose that leaves me with the question of "would it have been" possible for a small squad to consist of an Oberleutnant, plus a few Gefreiters and a couple of Obergefreiters? Should or shouldn't there be an NCO, senior or junior?  Sure... Either rank could be a platoon leader, but there are no O's at squad level... German (Heer) rifle platoons were organized more or less the same as US Army infantry platoons, except the German Heer squad revolved around the machine guns (MG 42 from 1942 onwards, MG 34 prior to that) and mortar team, rather than the US pratice of the machine gun being a platoon weapon and the mortars in the weapons platoon.  There's one NCO as a Platoon Sergeant (Oberfeldwebel) and a squad leader (Unteroffizier or Unterfeldwebel)...  It's entirely possible that a Leutnant could lead a squad from his platoon on a patrol, along with the squad leader (Gruppenführer) , while the Oberfeldwebel stays back in charge of the rest of the platoon... A typical Heer Infanterie squad (three or four squads to a platoon depending on the year and division) would be made up of one Sergeant or Corporal, (Keep in mind that Obergefreiter and Unteroffizier are both corporals, but the Unteroffizier has a command) and a mixed bag of Privates (Shutze) and Privates First Class (Obershutze), Lance Corporals (Gefreiter), as riflemen, and Obergefeiter (Corporal) machine gunners and motar chiefs... There's also the rank of Obergefreiter that has a  chevron & pip instead of a second chevron. That pip denotes a Corporal with more than 6 years of service.. There's also a Stabsgefreiter (two chevrons and a pip) but that rank is administrative only.. Clear as mud, eh?

Hey Hans, thanks for writing that all out. Very useful, and exactly what I needed. I think all I need to do is adjust one or two of the rank chevron patches I have on the other dudes. Demote the Stabsgefreiter, being that it is an administrative role (I assume you mean he'd be a pencil-pusher?).

psstoff995- thanks for the compliment. When the entire squad is finished, I will post 'em. Despite my ref books, and the knowledge abyss that is the internet, I still have a hard time keeping all of this straight.

I have an entire table-full of scenery (not terrain) that's been primed. Barn clutter, yard clutter, work-area clutter. My revised deadline is February. Yeah, right!

Steve

Demote the Stabsgefreiter, being that it is an administrative role (I assume you mean he'd be a pencil-pusher?).

Right... It was a specialist rank similar to the US Army's Technician-5th Grade (T-5)...

just to add a wrinkle to the uniform debate; NCO's were authorized to wear the officer-grade peaked caps, but w/o the silver piping...it wasn't too uncommon the see non-com's wearing the crusher cap...

Manny, you're right about the caps, but the cap badges for NCOs were different than the officer's badges as well as the chin straps... Our friend here is wearing the O's open-face belt buckle, trousers, and boots too. Enlisteds had the full, "Gott Mit Uns" buckles

Hans von Hammer wrote:

SteveM wrote: I skipped a rank and promoted him to an Oberleutnant, as the shoulder boards came molded with a single pip. I suppose that leaves me with the question of "would it have been" possible for a small squad to consist of an Oberleutnant, plus a few Gefreiters and a couple of Obergefreiters? Should or shouldn't there be an NCO, senior or junior?  Sure... Either rank could be a platoon leader, but there are no O's at squad level... German (Heer) rifle platoons were organized more or less the same as US Army infantry platoons, except the German Heer squad revolved around the machine guns (MG 42 from 1942 onwards, MG 34 prior to that) and mortar team, rather than the US pratice of the machine gun being a platoon weapon and the mortars in the weapons platoon.  There's one NCO as a Platoon Sergeant (Oberfeldwebel) and a squad leader (Unteroffizier or Unterfeldwebel)...  It's entirely possible that a Leutnant could lead a squad from his platoon on a patrol, along with the squad leader (Gruppenführer) , while the Oberfeldwebel stays back in charge of the rest of the platoon... A typical Heer Infanterie squad (three or four squads to a platoon depending on the year and division) would be made up of one Sergeant or Corporal, (Keep in mind that Obergefreiter and Unteroffizier are both corporals, but the Unteroffizier has a command) and a mixed bag of Privates (Shutze) and Privates First Class (Obershutze), Lance Corporals (Gefreiter), as riflemen, and Obergefeiter (Corporal) machine gunners and motar chiefs... There's also the rank of Obergefreiter that has a  chevron & pip instead of a second chevron. That pip denotes a Corporal with more than 6 years of service.. There's also a Stabsgefreiter (two chevrons and a pip) but that rank is administrative only.. Clear as mud, eh?

Gee, and some people think cosmological physics is complicated...

I hope you're all taking notes; SteveM might give a short pop quiz next week!

smeagol the vile wrote:

Heh, well Steven, just get to work.  Im sure you can easily get it done by your deadline. I know if I actuially spent every free moment I had at modeling, I would have alot more finished kits.

Your second signature, smeagol--that's from Rush, isn't it?

Great job on that soldier, SteveM!

Thanks Jim! Doog, thank you too... I appreciate you guys looking in here, and not acting bored Hans, I pretty much consider you one of the resident military accurists (did I just make up that word?). Between you and Manny, I'm gonna end up spending all my model cash on high-end, full color military uniform references books. Absolutely fine by me, I got enough figures in the stash to outlast me...

The context: the story for this dio is that a german squad has located, and is extracting, a couple of French infantry hideouts from the barn (not pictured, not finished). The POWs have raided the stored clothing within the barn, in attempts to go incognito, however they could only find women's garments (again, this is based on a war story of my late grandfather, a captain somewhere in the 28th). This has completely cracked up the squad. The farm owners (not pictured, not finished) are trying to argue their case to the leutnant, but are gettting cut off by Obergefreiter 1.  

I'm holding off these guys sealing up, pending any corrections that fire back- so please feel free. Of the bat, I will throw the first couple of inaccuracies out there; the scene takes palce in summer 1940, and two of the squad members would appear to be wearing '43 tunics (?). I'm hoping to fool the public by considering them modified '40. And, I don't think the make up of ranks make a lot of sense... no Schutzes. Ah, well...

Anyway... sorry for the TMI, here's a lot of photos (took them in natural room light, the available daylight was escaping me, which is why the uniforms seem to vary greatly. In real life, the uniforms are pertty much... well, uniform):

Believe you already met the Oberleutnant ("Simmer down gentlemen, simmer down... ... Damen, over here please..." )

Obergefreiter 1: ("ya'll just wanna back up offa the leutnant??" Some room to breath, peolpe!!!")

Obergefreiter 2, dragging one POW out of the barn by the sleeve: (heeeeey!!!! Look who I found paintin' her toenails!!)

His expression just cracks me up. God bless Hornet!

Gefreiter, escorting the second POW out the barn door. I broke off his Kar 98k barrel tip at some point, but the barrel is supposed to be jammed up the POW's caboose any way. I'll make sure it isn't noticed when final placement.: ("Move it, mademoiselle!")

Got himself a mole or two. S'ok... don't we all?

The Feldwebel squad leader (right Hans? ) stands in complete disbelief, as Obergefreiter 2 is beside himself with laughter ("Sie müssen scheißen ich..., mind yer weapon there, Erwin...")

That ain't a mole... I don't know what that is, but it's gone now. Might go back in and paint one there, tho. I kinda like the "human element" to it.

Just love love love this TANK figure... one figure's uniform is shaded in oils, the other in Vallejos. I hope the difference isn't too stark..

If you're still here, thanks for looking. All comments, critiques, and corrections welcome.

Steve

Of the bat, I will throw the first couple of inaccuracies out there; the scene takes palce in summer 1940, and two of the squad members would appear to be wearing '43 tunics (?). I'm hoping to fool the public by considering them modified '40.

Nah, you're good to go... The M36 and M40 feldblaus both had the pleated pockets and the blue-gray-green (Bottle Green was actual color) collars...  I didn't see any M43s..  What would be rare is the M36 feldblaus still in front-line units...   Das Heer was especially good about re-equipping their troops from the "front to the rear" until around 1944... 

Just outstanding work on those guys...

Thanks a million, Hans. So much history and info out there about the feldblouse... almost too much for my pea-brain. Interesting about the refitting from front to rear. I don't know why, but I just kinda assumed the guys out there on the line would be the last to get the reissues, and they would be the last to want to update to the less stylish versions. Although, that '44 Ike look-a-like tunic is pretty hip

Senojrn- thank you very much for your heart-warming compliments. I will try very hard to not disappoint you with the rest of this build. No guarantees, tho

Thank you, Nick. These figs are all resin, so most of the work was done for me TANK, Gunze, the rest are somewhat-modified Warriors. And those Hornet heads make life a lot simpler when painting, I'm completely spoiled by them.

I just noticed an unpainted gas mask container strap. Dang it. Well, detail checking is why I snapped the pics in the first place. Next update should be the french civilians / farm owners. Some pretty expressive Nemrod figures.

Steve

Interesting about the refitting from front to rear. I don't know why, but I just kinda assumed the guys out there on the line would be the last to get the reissues, and they would be the last to want to update to the less stylish versions. Although, that '44 Ike look-a-like tunic is pretty hip

Too often, that was the way it really was later on in the war.  The guys that needed the new gear the most were the last to get it...  Early on though, the German supply system was geared towards the line troops first... Once the war started to turn against the Germans, human nature took over... That's why you see pics from the Eastern Front of headquarters unit in the latest reversable camo and winter boots and a rifleman wearing a great coat stuffed with straw.

Happened in the US Army as well...

The M44 "Ike" tunics weren't that way because it was stylish though... It was simple expediency...  The ankle boots (Retreat Boots) used less leather than the jackboots (Marching Boots), the short tunics used less cloth and fewer buttons, etc..  Their quality was P*ss-poor, the amount of celulose (read: paper) had increased to about 45% wool and 65% celulose,  and they fell apart quickly due to poor material, less of it, and slave-labor manufacture... Even the use of the breast eagles changed to the BeVo-quality embroidery and the collar litzen were smaller and nad of poor quality.  Veteran troops saved the old shoulder marks and litzen to put onto the "new" uniforms to at least try to to look better.. As for "favorites", the M43 was the favorite among the troops...