Newsstand buyers no longer accepted?

Bgrigg wrote:

Bgrigg wrote: I have a notice at the top right of my web pages that my last issue is February 2008. I think it must be right, and it really will be my last issue. At that time I will sign off the forums as well. I have many reasons to do so, but choose not to do so at this time. Bill And I do have many reasons, none of which I will go into publically. I will let my subscription lapse at the end of February and at that time I will spend my time on the "other" forum. I have no intention of stomping off mad, as some have done, and I'm looking forward to receiving the last few issues. Maybe they improve enough to make me reconsider buying future subscriptions, but I probably won't be coming back to the forums. When I do sign off, I will state my reasons then, but with no hard feelings. Really the only reason I'm not leaving now and accept gulfstreamv's offer, is my personal goal of 5000 posts before I go. That's approximately 100 posts per month. Should be a piece of cake! Bill

gulfstreamV wrote:

Bgrigg wrote:    Bgrigg wrote: I have a notice at the top right of my web pages that my last issue is February 2008. I think it must be right, and it really will be my last issue. At that time I will sign off the forums as well. I have many reasons to do so, but choose not to do so at this time. Bill And I do have many reasons, none of which I will go into publically. I will let my subscription lapse at the end of February and at that time I will spend my time on the "other" forum. I have no intention of stomping off mad, as some have done, and I'm looking forward to receiving the last few issues. Maybe they improve enough to make me reconsider buying future subscriptions, but I probably won't be coming back to the forums. When I do sign off, I will state my reasons then, but with no hard feelings. Really the only reason I'm not leaving now and accept gulfstreamv's offer, is my personal goal of 5000 posts before I go. That's approximately 100 posts per month. Should be a piece of cake! Bill  Heck of a goal compadre'. My goal is to actually see a pic of a model you A/B'd with your LG. But you don't post pic's of models. What a shame, From what I read your a pretty good airbrusher/ modeler. May the next three months be good to you. P.W.

Gulf, you know what...

Bill may not post his models and most likely has good reason for not doing so BUT, UNLIKE YOU SIR, he doesnt troll the forums looking for someone to ridicule and to hararass by email just because he didnt like what was posted. Bill will always give a polite and tactful response and that's 100% more than you ever do.

I'll tell you this... Bill is a BETTER MAN and Modeler than you are. He proves this day after day helping modelers here with thier questions. He goes out of his way to help modelers here regardless and always gives 100%. While you sit there and give NOTHING but grief to members posting on particular threads. I havent seen you post a pic of a model in a long time and you sparsely even help other modelers here and when you do it's always with a crappy attitude to the topic where instead of offering differing advice you attack the person giving the advice.

If modeler here has airbrush or compressor problems Bill is the man to talk to, he has a wealth of knowlege about them. Can you say the same for yourself? I strongly DOUBT IT! There is more about these forums than posting pictures of your work. Maybe you will learn this when you stop trying to provoke and lure posters out for you to ridicule or attack and stop acting like an . Someday that chip on your shoulder is going get knocked off and I seriously hope I am there to see it when it happens just to say. "I told you so!"

Nuff Said!  

Air Master Modeler wrote:

gulfstreamV wrote:  Bgrigg wrote:    Bgrigg wrote: I have a notice at the top right of my web pages that my last issue is February 2008. I think it must be right, and it really will be my last issue. At that time I will sign off the forums as well. I have many reasons to do so, but choose not to do so at this time. Bill And I do have many reasons, none of which I will go into publically. I will let my subscription lapse at the end of February and at that time I will spend my time on the "other" forum. I have no intention of stomping off mad, as some have done, and I'm looking forward to receiving the last few issues. Maybe they improve enough to make me reconsider buying future subscriptions, but I probably won't be coming back to the forums. When I do sign off, I will state my reasons then, but with no hard feelings. Really the only reason I'm not leaving now and accept gulfstreamv's offer, is my personal goal of 5000 posts before I go. That's approximately 100 posts per month. Should be a piece of cake! Bill  Heck of a goal compadre'. My goal is to actually see a pic of a model you A/B'd with your LG. But you don't post pic's of models. What a shame, From what I read your a pretty good airbrusher/ modeler. May the next three months be good to you. P.W.  Gulf, you know what... Bill may not post his models and most likely has good reason for not doing so BUT, UNLIKE YOU SIR, he doesnt troll the forums looking for someone to ridicule and to hararass by email just because he didnt like what was posted. Bill will always give a polite and tactful response and that's 100% more than you ever do. I'll tell you this... Bill is a BETTER MAN and Modeler than you are. He proves this day after day helping modelers here with thier questions. He goes out of his way to help modelers here regardless and always gives 100%. While you sit there and give NOTHING but grief to members posting on particular threads. I havent seen you post a pic of a model in a long time and you sparsely even help other modelers here and when you do it's always with a crappy attitude to the topic where instead of offering differing advice you attack the person giving the advice. If modeler here has airbrush or compressor problems Bill is the man to talk to, he has a wealth of knowlege about them. Can you say the same for yourself? I strongly DOUBT IT! There is more about these forums than posting pictures of your work. Maybe you will learn this when you stop trying to provoke and lure posters out for you to ridicule or attack and stop acting like an . Someday that chip on your shoulder is going get knocked off and I seriously hope I am there to see it when it happens just to say. "I told you so!" Nuff Said!

AMM, I couldn't agree more. I really don't know what gulfstreams problem is, I really don't care either. I think in time though this site is going to be full of people like him and most of the helpful modelers (like Bill) will have moved on. How very sad. 

Exactly, ogrejohn. I have only been back "in the game" for a little over two years, but these forums have been both a Godsend and an enormous encouragement to me, knowing that someong like bgrigg or jtilley or J-Hulk or EdGrune - to name just a few of the people who have helped me out - are always willing to lend their expertise or hard won knowledge to a fellow modeler. And now that I've learned a little and made some of the same rookie mistakes, I'm happy to pass on my little crumbs, and honored that people can find some value in them.

That is one of the best characteristics of our hobby - no matter where we live or what language we speak or write, we all share the common passion for building models, and that translates universally across the globe and for all time.

I think you are also correct in that some of the steps Kalmbach has taken in the last year, especially with regards to this forum, are having the result you predict - some of the best, most helpful or most capable modelers are going elsewhere. And that is the real tragedy in all of this.

Wow guys. I don't know what to say! I appreciate your support. I know I had friends on the forum, but now know just how good they really are!

I do have my reasons for not posting pics of my builds. I don't build for anything other than my own pleasure, and have no need to display my work for others to view. Besides, I'm not as good as you all are! Everything I've learned, I've learned off forums like this (and mostly FSM) and I'm very happy to share that knowledge with others.

However, this is taking this thread off topic (yeah, like I've never done that before!), and the real issue here isn't how one member treats another, but how unfair it is that magazine buyers plunk down the money and don't have full access to the website. Karma will take care of the rest.

Bill, I completely understand where you're coming from and agree with many of your opinions regarding the FSM forums in general and the magazine. Those who have been around the forums for any length of time can quickly identify those members who are helpful contributors. IMHO, you have consistently demonstrated that you are one of these members.

I too have recently begun to limit the posting of my models on this forum. Not because of anything to do with their quality, but because these forums seem to be shifting away from focusing on actual models (not a good thing, IMHO). When there are 30,000+ members on this site and under 300 on the other site I frequent, I have to scratch my head when the exact same post (completed, progress, or modeling question) garners only 5 or 6 responses here and over 20 on the "other site". For this reason, combined with the rampant expansion of personal opinion, sarcasm, and disrespect toward other members, is why I've shifted away from posting on these forums.

I agree the removal of the "access code" from the magazine certainly "seems" to lead one to believe that FSM has a different - and somewhat disturbing - view when it comes to newstand buyer vs. subscribers. While I continue to subscribe to the magazine, the fact that it grants access to a very limited amount of online content has absolutely nothing to do with my decision. I do so simply to save a few pennys. I understand why some people would opt to "pick and choose" which issues of the magazine they wish to buy and retain. Not every issue of FSM has material that interests every modeler...it just can't be done. Implying, in ANY way, that these part-time buyers are in some way substandard, does not project a favorable image of FSM or Kalmbach. The removal of the access code could lead some modelers to develop this opinion.

I guess we'll just to wait and see if FSM chooses to readdress this decision...

I too will concur that BGrigg has been very helpful and contributing member to these forums and always helps keep the discussion and debates from getting out of hand.  He is one of the main contributors to these forums and it's a shame that so many like him are no longer here.

From a subscribers point of view,( I finally got my Oct issue today thank you by the way) I don't really look at the "special perks" all that much. I do really appreciate the thought from FSM that they want to do something special for subscribers. I am afraid that it might be taken badly by some though. Kind of the reason for this thread, right? So if we were to put the subscribers to a vote I think most would say the lower price is thanks enough, open all aspects of the site to all who purchase the mag. That would be my vote.

As far as the lack of response from the people from FSM to PMs sent, well I guess Matthew, you will have to answer that one.

On the issue of certain ones that post just to stir the pot and being a general PITA..... Well I guess everyone that's here will just have to 

 Bill you don't owe anyone any kind of reason as to why or why not you don't post model pics. It's no ones business but your own. Can't think I've ever posted any of mine either. I just can't bear the thought of so many people getting sick and being scarred for life.

That's all, sorry if anyone takes this the wrong way. I tried to be as reasonable as possible. 

John 

Except that newsstand buyers can no longer access it online, like subscribers can. That's the issue being discussed. FSM has basically said buy it every month with a subscription and get it, but buy a few magazines per year and don't get it at all, not even for the time the magazine is valid. Before all you needed was to change the code every month to continue the access. Now newsstand buyers are paying full list for less. IMHO not fair. 

In fact in the October issue – Vol. 25 – No. 8 at the bottom of the contents page (pg 5) states: 

Get more at FineScale.com!

FineScale Modeler readers have access to premium online content at FineScale.com. You must have a FineScale.com account to view this content. To create an account, go to www.finescale.com/register.

 It also goes on to say: 

Subscribers: click “Create Magazine Subscriber Account” and enter the customer number from your subscription label and enjoy unlimited access to the Web site for the life of your subscription. 

But this last bit is in a different column and does not clarify that to actually access the content you MUST have a subscription. So now a new buyer will read that, go to the website, register and then get a message that they need to subscribe. Bit nasty, if you ask me.

Bgrigg wrote:

Except that newsstand buyers can no longer access it online, like subscribers can. That's the issue being discussed. FSM has basically said buy it every month with a subscription and get it, but buy a few magazines per year and don't get it at all, not even for the time the magazine is valid. Before all you needed was to change the code every month to continue the access. Now newsstand buyers are paying full list for less. IMHO not fair.  In fact in the October issue – Vol. 25 – No. 8 at the bottom of the contents page (pg 5) states:  Get more at FineScale.com! FineScale Modeler readers have access to premium online content at FineScale.com. You must have a FineScale.com account to view this content. To create an account, go to www.finescale.com/register.  It also goes on to say:  Subscribers: click “Create Magazine Subscriber Account” and enter the customer number from your subscription label and enjoy unlimited access to the Web site for the life of your subscription.  But this last bit is in a different column and does not clarify that to actually access the content you MUST have a subscription. So now a new buyer will read that, go to the website, register and then get a message that they need to subscribe. Bit nasty, if you ask me.

Why do you care?

I'm doing it because I think it's unfair. So crawl back under your bridge.

Bgrigg wrote:

Why do you care? I'm doing it because I think it's unfair. So crawl back under your bridge.

gulfstreamV wrote:

Bgrigg wrote: Why do you care? I'm doing it because I think it's unfair. So crawl back under your bridge. Because I do care, and the troll thing when all else fails.

GulfstreamV. Flame me all you want. But, a lot of very good and informative modelers left this forum because of morons like you.

Hit the "report abuse" button in the lower right hand corner. I don't care. I'm tired of your attitude. I checked your profile and looked at your previous posts. And, by far, the majority of them had nothing positive to say. All you seem to do is come to a thread and try your damndest to tick somebody off.

Now, read the title of this particular section of the forums. "Suggestions and Feedback"! All that anyone here has done is offer suggestions to the FSM heirarchy, except you! All you have done is try your best to trash any and everything Bill and others have said. 

Go away! Please!! 

mfsob wrote:

Now bgrigg, let's not insult the bridges. I mean, they have feelings too!

Good advice. I'll stop treating them as if they're <snigger, snort> arch enemies!

I've never understood why someone (G V) feels the need to post in this (or any) thread when they have absolutely nothing to contribute to the conversation.  If you're not interested in the topic, then stay the out of the thread and stop bashing the people who are debating the issues.

Now... back to the topic at hand.  I'm curious how many of you use the online content here (other than the forums themselves obviously).  I don't because there is nothing new online to access that isn't already in the magazine, unless I'm missing something here....

I will admit that I rarely use the online content available to subscribers. But not using something and losing access to something is two different things. As Joni Mitchell said "you don't know what you've got, till it's gone".

There are two items that can only be accessed by subscribers now, and that newsstand buyers are losing: Online reviews and Model Products Directory. The online reviews go back to January 1996, so that we can access things we may not have the magazine for (I only go back as far as May 2005, for instance). The Model Products Directory is perhaps a bit more helpful, as you can search for a subject and find all the various makers in all the various scales (or books, CDs and tools).

IMHO newsstand buyers should also have access to the same things as subscribers, but only for as long as the magazine they bought is current. If you want to access it in the future, make sure you pay for that future magazine as well. That way no-one loses, FSM sells magazines and lookie-loos are encouraged to buy.

Not having spoken before on this topic...

Gents, I'm afraid most of you are wrong. FSM/Kalmbach is a business. Their job is to make money. They make money by selling advertising. They sell advertising by showing propective advertisers how many people subscribe, not how many magazines go out to the newsstand/hobby shop. The more subscribers, the more desirable a venue for advertising, the more they can charge.

It is in their best interest to encourage subscriptions whether by a per issue discount or by making the website more valuable to their subscribers or both. I'm sure they sat at a meeting and weighed the potential loss of a few forum members who are newstsand/hobby shop buyers vs the encouragement of getting more people to subscribe.

Well AJ, that's an interesting viewpoint, and one which I am fully aware of. However, I can't agree that we're wrong.

Since December 2005 newsstand buyers have been able to access the online perks via a printed code. That code was valid for a fixed length of time, and to continue accessing the content, they had to keep buying the magazine. That has been taken away from them, without even so much as an explanation. Hardly an enticement for people to open their wallets. 

Advertisers do not solely base their buying of ads on the subscription base, but take into account the entire circulation. A larger subscription base is a good thing for sure, but overall they just want to get their name out in front of as many people as possible. Not only that but they are interested in targeted markets. MRC isn't interested in getting their ads in Good Housekeeping, as that magazine (which has a humongous circulation compared to FSM) doesn't attract buyers of models. They are not going to turn up their noses at people who only buy three magazines per year. In other words, if one modeling magazine sells 1,000,000 copies per month, but only has a subscription base of 100,000, and that is competing with another modeling magazine that has 200,000 subscribers but only sells 500,000 magazines, they will opt for the larger circulation. Well, actually they'll buy ads in both magazines and try to entice the full 1,500,000 readers, and try to leverage the price downwards by pointing out the smaller circulation! By the way, I've sold ads for magazines before and know first hand what a cut-throat business it is!

My point is if FSM/Kalmbach think this is going to encourage cherry pickers to plunk down their coin for a subscription, they're wrong. Like many decisions made today in business, they have only looked at the bottom line, and not listened to their customer base. If anything, this will likely result in a loss of buyers and subscribers.

Most modelers stick to a narrow focus (I know one guy who only does Shermans), and they're just not interested in a magazine that predominately show aircraft or German armor. You see that time and time again on the forums: not enough tanks & too many planes vs. too many tanks & not enough space craft vs. what about cars?

For FSM to succeed, they have to please as many people as possible each and every month, and I see this a step in the wrong direction. The best way to increase your subscription base is not remove perks from newsstand buyers, but to increase the quality of the publication. Look at me. Right now I subscribe and I don't like the trend. This issue has caused me to rethink renewing my subscription, and I know that I'm not alone in that.

I fear that in one sense you are quite correct. They are more concerned with the income they receive from advertisers, than the content of their magazine or the wishes of their readers. And that's a shame.

bgrigg has nailed the core issue of this thead - once again, FSM has yanked something with no warning, no explanation and no appeal. Matthew Usher makes the no appeal part very, very clear in his comments above. Anyone here remember some of the things we used to be able to do with relative ease before the "new, improved" forums came along? That's just one example.

Am I whining? Some would characterize it as such. But this ain't Cosmo or Good Housekeeping. We are not "the masses" who can be jerked around at will because there are millions of us and some other poor schumck is always willing to fill the gap. This is FSM, and the atmosphere is (or rather was) more like an old neighborhood bar, with a feeling of intimacy and smallness that instantly made you feel comfortable. If they keep up this relentless drive to the bottom line to the exclusion of all else, FSM is going to lose what remains of that atmosphere, because they will have driven off the very people who created it. And when that happens, we all lose.

Bingo. 

Good thing this isn't the only magazine or forum that is out there, perish the thought.....  Business is business, and given that we can choose where to spend our money and where not to.  That's a message that will get through loud and clear. 

hi guys  it's been a while

i must say that while i understand (the principle) of what your bringing out  by not having it your not missing all that much. i trust info from you guys more than the reviews

the reviews are nothing special at all. think about it  when you go to some of the online dealers(no names) and you look at a model it may have a review or three  attached to it, check it out when was the last time you saw a fsm review attached to a model at one of those sights  .

and those sights advert. in the mag too   so as i say not missing much

sorry Bill just a bad attempt to cheer you up

but there is truth in what i say  ALL the other places have better reviews

DURR wrote:

but there is truth in what i say  ALL the other places have better reviews

Very true, I rely on reviews from other sites which are far better, more comprehensive, include many photos of the sprues, decals, PE etc. and are better organized.... in comparison the FSM reviews seem amateurish and just fluff, although I like the direction they've been heading into the past few issues.  I'd list some of the great review sites that are out there, but the management here frowns upon talking about other websites in the modeling community.

As far as I'm concerned, the online only content isn't really anything special  .