Ebay woes

I buy on Ebay the same way I approach car buying. I do my research, decide on a fair price and then go looking. If I find what I want on Ebay, first I check out the Buy it Now offers. If I find one that's in my price range, I'll buy it. If I have to bid on an item, I'll list my max bid and let the chips fall where they may. I learned early on in Ebay how the "win at all costs" urge can take over and you do nothing but screw yourself over.

Another thing people want to realize about Ebay. The major mfg'ers also watch the auctions....

And if they see one of their ancient OOP kits selling for a lot of bucks with tons of activity, they will sometimes do a re-release of the kit to capitalize on the demand...

This is why it pays to keep your ears to the rail so to speak.

My illuminating moment came in search of a Heller La Reale. at the time it hadn't been in production for over 30 years and complete untouched examples were extremely rare.

Caught one on the bay starting at about $50.00 (this was back in '95 or so) A good many bidders ensued to jack it all the way up to $220.00 or thereabouts.

Me, I watched this without worry cause I was willing to go to $500.00. (I had been searching for one for about ten years) Well I sniped it at 3 seconds and got it for $260.00 shipped. Paid for it thru paypal immediately. and went to my friend who happens to run a B&M store to tell him about it.

He was more than pleased to inform me that in three months Heller was re-issuing it at an initial MSRP price of $45.00, they just hadn't made the formal announcement yet. (came four weeks later)

I went back to the auction page and contacted the bidder that I had beaten and asked him if he would take it at my last bid + shipping. (5.00 more than his last bid)

He happily agree and when it arrived he paid and I re-labled it and sent it off, didn't even leave the PO. Picked mine up later at the store.

I came to learn through another friend that Heller decided to re-release because of the prices that they were selling for when they came up for sale.

It's like many of the old time '50's and 60's re-releases we have seen over the last 15 years. They were on the shelf, they caught the eyes of the young guys as "That" was something I would like to build, but never got the chance, and those young boys are now adults with the cash to buy...

Always check with your HS buddies/friends, they may know something way before it becomes common knowledge.

AS far as Sniping?

Only way to buy from E-Bay. I don't buy unless it is the only way to get it, I figure a value, double it, and last second bid it.....

I don't buy much off Ebay, but when I do it's because no one else has it and I don't usually lose those auctions.

E-bay is the source of last resort.

Karl, the only small increment I'd add to your suggestion is to snipe. Your bid only goes in once, when it's too late for a counter, and the one better thing is you don't have to be there. Costs a buck.

BTW looking forward to those NASCAR models!

Another good trick is to use the "See Automatic Bids" when you click on the "10 bids" or whatever next to the current price. There you can see if one or the other buyer is one of those kind of bidders who "creeps up" to the price by like, $10 dollar increments. You can use this to your advantage.

When you post a bid, the price SHOWN on the page will always only be a few dollars more than the previous price. So if you bid $100 on an item that is currently at say, $40, if you do this in the last minute or so, by the time the clock ticks down, that bidder will still be still be "creeping" when it ends. I don't know why guys do this----they obviously don't understand the process. I once got a vintage 80's rare guitar for a mere $375 that should have gone for around $800 by doing this.

Hi,

I'm not fully sure that I agree that starting with a low bid is always wrong. 

If its something rare or something that I really want then I think it might make sense to just put in my 'this is the highest I will go' price. 

But if its an item that isn't so rare, then by starting with a lower bid, if it looks like someone is intent on outbidding me on it, I can drop out and wait for something similar to come up for sale later.  Whereas if I had started with my maximum 'this is the highest I'll pay' price I run the risk of having someone else drive the price up right to that point but dropping out just below my price.

I guess alot would just depend on how rare the item is and whether I'm willing to wait a little while to get it.

Definitely bidding early on an auction with a low starting price is WRONG!

For example, take a hard to find $50 kit, something that if you saw for $50 at a retail store, you'd buy because it is scarce and a good price. Now say the starting price is $5. The casual eBayer sees it early and says, "I'd buy that for $5!" and bids, say, $10.

The next casual bidder sees it and bids $5.50, but he's still not the high bidder. He keeps bidding a buck at a time until he's the high bidder at $10.50.

First guy gets an outbid email and he goes back and repeats process until he's the high bidder. rinse and repeat until the end of the auction or the price is no longer the great deal it could have been.

Never bid on something until you are tracking 2, 3 or more similar items. Either use the autobid option or be there for the end. Once the price goes above what the others are selling for, stop bidding and continue to watch the cheaper options. Once the two or three have sold for a lot of money, the 4th or 5th ones will probably go for much less.

Once more, why I used snipes. You set them in advance, with a maximum price, then walk away. Unlike actually bidding, where your bid gets posted, the site won't show your hand ahead of time. It bids once, at the last second when a counter bid would also have to be a snipe.

Frankly I see no positive in bidding at all, until the auction goes over. All you are doing is inviting someone to outbid you, and cost you more money in the long run.

Like was stated earlier, I was in a live auction once and recognized I was getting run up by a shill. So for the sport of it I counter offered three more times, each time bluffing that I was more than eager to keep raising the price. At the right moment, I stopped bidding. The auctioneer couldn't believe it, and kept stalling the call. Finally he gave up and knocked the other bidder down for the sale. She went ballistic, screamed at the auctioneer that I should be forced to make another bid.

Thats harder to control on eBay.

the Baron

Yeah, it helps to establish some rules for yourself, too.  For example, deciding on your price levels, and sticking to them.  Or not bidding on a kit that is currently in production, with some exceptions.  For example, if I want to build a Monogram SBD--and who doesn't, on occasion?--I may bid on an auction for one, but I will make sure not to go past the retail price of the kit, which is currently in production.  And in the case of a long-lived kit, like that SBD, I might look for older boxings, from when I was a kid, for example, on the theory that the molds were in better shape, so the sprues will tend to be crisper.

I also weigh the rarity or ubiquity of the subject.  With model kits, it's one thing.  With figures and toy soldiers, it's another.  But generally, I like to pay no more than twenty bucks for a model, and less is better; five bucks for a single foot figure; and ten for a mounted figure.

My tolerances are a little higher for Maschinen Krieger subjects, because there are so many currently out-of-print, and they are generally rarer anyway.  Same goes for the figures made to go with them.

And in reckoning price, I also try to avoid buying from pirates, if I have a good idea that something is a pirate copy.

But these are just guidelines, and if I've had a beer or two and go on on a Friday night, I've been known to get stupid, too.

 

Your comment is the perfect lead in to what I observed on Ebay today.

I was watching a dozen or so auctions that a kit seller had starting at 99 cents plus $7 shipping. Within hours of the auction commencing, more than half were selling at prices that were equal to or more than you would pay at the most expensive hobby retailer. Towards the final moments of the auction frantic bidding ensued and all sense of self control went out the window. Bidders payed an exorbitant amount for a kit not realizing that it they just scrolled down or did a simple search, the Buy it Now option would have been alot cheaper.   

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

Bid bombing.... that's a new one to me.

 

The Harambe-shaped Cheeto is probably the latest example of bid bombing. People starting fake eBay accounts to make the amount for the chip become ridiculous.

I remember it becoming a thing post 9/11.

http://www.salon.com/2001/10/15/bid_bombers/

Bid bombing.... that's a new one to me.

the Baron

 

And in reckoning price, I also try to avoid buying from pirates, if I have a good idea that something is a pirate copy.

 

There's another phenomenon regarding items like this. Sometimes those items are "bid bombed" in order to chase away buyers. Bid bombing is when fake bids are made in order to jack the price up so real buyers won't bother bidding on the item. So what may start out as a cheap way to get a pirated copy of a legitimate item, becomes even more expensive than the real item.

Bid bombing usually occurs when people do not want someone selling an item. Yes, there are people like that out there.

There is one eBay store I frequent in and he has tons of oddball kits and decals. I've bought a few stuff from him and his prices are pretty decent - especially when buying multiple items. The best part? Great customer service if you have questions.

The eBay store I often go to is Scott's Model Workshop. Check it out.

plasticjunkie

 

Be patient rooster and you will get what you want. As an example, I was after the 1/32 ROG Bf109K-4 which in reality is a reboxed Hasegawa. The ones I eyed were in the mid $30 range and ending sometimes around or over $40. Took me a couple of months of waiting but sniped one out with an Eduard PE color set for $26. Took me a while but finally got it at a great price with seconds to spare. 

 

Yeah that's the way I'm looking at it too PJ. It's one I'd like to build up someday but will wait for a good price before I have another go at it.

Yeah, it helps to establish some rules for yourself, too.  For example, deciding on your price levels, and sticking to them.  Or not bidding on a kit that is currently in production, with some exceptions.  For example, if I want to build a Monogram SBD--and who doesn't, on occasion?--I may bid on an auction for one, but I will make sure not to go past the retail price of the kit, which is currently in production.  And in the case of a long-lived kit, like that SBD, I might look for older boxings, from when I was a kid, for example, on the theory that the molds were in better shape, so the sprues will tend to be crisper.

I also weigh the rarity or ubiquity of the subject.  With model kits, it's one thing.  With figures and toy soldiers, it's another.  But generally, I like to pay no more than twenty bucks for a model, and less is better; five bucks for a single foot figure; and ten for a mounted figure.

My tolerances are a little higher for Maschinen Krieger subjects, because there are so many currently out-of-print, and they are generally rarer anyway.  Same goes for the figures made to go with them.

And in reckoning price, I also try to avoid buying from pirates, if I have a good idea that something is a pirate copy.

But these are just guidelines, and if I've had a beer or two and go on on a Friday night, I've been known to get stupid, too.

Bish

 

GMorrison

One more tip, for those new to the game.

There's nothing sillier than complaining about shipping costs. Just consider it a part of the overall price pure and simple.

 

 

 

 

In other words, don't fall for the con trick of cheap price and extortionate postage to make up for it.

 

That is one reason ebay charges a shipping fee on sellers because they were avoiding the final value fee and getting more $ in their pocket so ebay got wise and punished everyone.

I too do the sniping technique otherwise, 99% of the time you loose. Like Bish, I wait 5 seconds or less with the highest price I'm willing to pay. Sometimes I have won or lost by a penny! Why drive up the price of something by placing a bid days or hours away?

Be patient rooster and you will get what you want. As an example, I was after the 1/32 ROG Bf109K-4 which in reality is a reboxed Hasegawa. The ones I eyed were in the mid $30 range and ending sometimes around or over $40. Took me a couple of months of waiting but sniped one out with an Eduard PE color set for $26. Took me a while but finally got it at a great price with seconds to spare. 

rooster513

Thanks for the advice guys. Wish I learned this lesson before so I could have picked one of those sbd's. now I know better. Sounds like you have robdo it or you'll never win anything

 

This is the old AM SBD I bought when they were selling these kits direct. I got a bunch of their stuff before they went out of business. Lost interest in 1/48 scale aircraft and most of the stuff sits unbuilt decades later.

http://modelingmadness.com/review/allies/us/lacombesbd.htm

All of the above....

It is all about what you want to pay on the day..

Remember when the Revell 00017 M-48 and Scissors Bridge 1/40 sold for $200 ?

It subsequently sold for $150, then $100... then, Revell re-released it & currently sells for UKP£12.00-£18.00, USD $15-$22 approx.

The €b@y options I use:

Searching for said item, using all the filter options applicable, location, category etc, then use the "follow my search" to save it, & €bat will email you all new listings of item daily. I setup each item on a seperate search.

Another useful option at the bottom:

to give you an idea of previous sales price.

Finally, delete the search when you have the Item you want.... as you don't want to know you paid $$$$ when they subsequently sell for $$.cc!

Always remember... there are other options,

Hobby club meets, Hobby Shows, for sale/swap pages on hobby sites, yard sales, car-boot sales.... and there always the retail LHS!

Straycat1911

 

 

rooster513

Thanks for the advice guys. Wish I learned this lesson before so I could have picked one of those sbd's. now I know better. Sounds like you have robdo it or you'll never win anything

 

 

 

 

Not necessarily, Rooster. I've won a few bids but to be honest, it was usually only myself or one other person bidding OR it was a kit that it seemed no one was looking at.

But for the reason you're bummed, I do prefer to look for kits that offer either the "Buy it now' or "make an offer" options. If the price doesn't cause you to break the bank, you might try that.

William 

 

Yeah I've been checking in now and again to see if another comes up in auction. It's a kit I'd love to build sometime but I've got kits to keep me busy. More of a "if I can get a good price, I'll pick it up" kinda thing.

All the tatics you guys are mentioning makes perfect sense...I'll just have to use them to my advantage next time

rooster513

Thanks for the advice guys. Wish I learned this lesson before so I could have picked one of those sbd's. now I know better. Sounds like you have robdo it or you'll never win anything

 

Not necessarily, Rooster. I've won a few bids but to be honest, it was usually only myself or one other person bidding OR it was a kit that it seemed no one was looking at.

But for the reason you're bummed, I do prefer to look for kits that offer either the "Buy it now' or "make an offer" options. If the price doesn't cause you to break the bank, you might try that.

William 

Hi,

Most the time I will start with a bid that I hope is reasonable, but if I really want the item I'll frequently wait till close to the end of the sale (within an hour or so most times) and then put in my 'most I'm really willing to pay bid'.  If you are already the top bidder, eBay will keep the existing bid and only raise it if someone else puts in a bid higher than your existing bid, bid less than your max bid.  That way, if someone tries to 'snipe' with a bid over my existing bid but less than my max I'm willing to pay, I will still get the item, but if they 'snipe' with something over my 'max willing to pay price' then its theirs, and I really don't have any reason to be upset (because it went for something more than I was willing to pay).

Pat

the Baron

Sniping has been around on eBay ever since the site went up.  I do it all the time.  If you want the piece that badly, you'll either leave a high bid, or you'll be there at the end.  There's nothing wrong with it.  You win some, you lose some.  Go to an auction hall sometime and bid.  You can still get outbid, and if the auctioneer allows absentee or phone bids, you're bidding against them, too.

I seldom if ever bid on an eBay auction early in the auction's date range.  Most of the time, no one else bids, and I can place a bid and get the object for the seller's original bid amount.  If I do bid on an item early, it's often something that doesn't matter enough to me, to hang around and bid at the end.  That is, it's a nice-to-have, but not something I'll go to war for.  If I win it, great, if not, meh.

And I've seen auctions--bid in a couple and even won a couple--in which the bidders put their eBay muscles on, and we wind up bidding something like a Monogram P-40B up to $50.  Then eBay testosterone kicks in, and everyone says, "No one beats ME!!"  And you wind up with an expensive piece, that you can find on the retail market for a tenth of the price.

It's as fun to observe, as it is fun to watch people at real auctions, which I've also done.  I loved the reaction I got once in a live auction, for a beer stein.  I collect 'em, and I was bidding against a dealer.  I was bound to win, because the dealer wanted to spend as little as possible, so he could flip it for a profit.  As a collector, I could outbid him, and still pay less than I'd ordinarily pay if I saw the item in his shop.  That sweetened the win.

 

Thats pretty much the how i think. I'll only bid early if the item only has a day or so to run and no one has bid. That way you can get an idea if anyone else is interested. Somtimes it the onyl bid and i get it, and otehr times somone else will bid and then i will decide how much i want.

If its somthing i really wnat, then its time to snipe. Why get into a bdding war, its only your own pocket your hurting.

Sniping has been around on eBay ever since the site went up.  I do it all the time.  If you want the piece that badly, you'll either leave a high bid, or you'll be there at the end.  There's nothing wrong with it.  You win some, you lose some.  Go to an auction hall sometime and bid.  You can still get outbid, and if the auctioneer allows absentee or phone bids, you're bidding against them, too.

I seldom if ever bid on an eBay auction early in the auction's date range.  Most of the time, no one else bids, and I can place a bid and get the object for the seller's original bid amount.  If I do bid on an item early, it's often something that doesn't matter enough to me, to hang around and bid at the end.  That is, it's a nice-to-have, but not something I'll go to war for.  If I win it, great, if not, meh.

And I've seen auctions--bid in a couple and even won a couple--in which the bidders put their eBay muscles on, and we wind up bidding something like a Monogram P-40B up to $50.  Then eBay testosterone kicks in, and everyone says, "No one beats ME!!"  And you wind up with an expensive piece, that you can find on the retail market for a tenth of the price.

It's as fun to observe, as it is fun to watch people at real auctions, which I've also done.  I loved the reaction I got once in a live auction, for a beer stein.  I collect 'em, and I was bidding against a dealer.  I was bound to win, because the dealer wanted to spend as little as possible, so he could flip it for a profit.  As a collector, I could outbid him, and still pay less than I'd ordinarily pay if I saw the item in his shop.  That sweetened the win.

Another nice thing about eBay is as soon as something is sold at a ridiculous price that was won by a sniper in the final seconds, a half dozen of those items will be available for auction the next day, listed by guys who think, "I'd sell mine for that price."

Then they wonder why one went for $75 yesterday, but this week they aren't even getting bids in $40 range. Well, yesterday there was only one and more than one person wanted it. A "fierce bidding war" ensued. Today there are six available and one less person wants it today than yesterday.

Basic supply and demand coupled with the fact that often bidding wars get the best of some buyers and they must "win" the auction at all costs. The bidder gets an emotional vested interest in that particular auction and becomes blind to cheaper options and can't just drop out. After they lose the auction and search for similar auctions the next day, they see those better prices and bid accordingly.

Rob Gronovius

If you went into a real life auction house and tried your hand at bidding against seasoned pros, you'd get your butt handed to you.

No doubt about that, Rob.

Greg

Informative thread.

I dislike games, so any thoughts I may have had of trying eBay someday (hey, I'm a poet), just swirled down the drain. Probably a blessing.

 

An auction is a competition with the prize a coveted item at a hopefully the best possible price. Do not expect to join eBay today and start beating buyers who have been playing the game for nearly two decades.

If you went into a real life auction house and tried your hand at bidding against seasoned pros, you'd get your butt handed to you.

Informative thread.

I dislike games, so any thoughts I may have had of trying eBay someday (hey, I'm a poet), just swirled down the drain. Probably a blessing.

Ah yes, many Luftwaffe subjects slipped from my grasp by the last minute bidder!  

rooster513

This technique has a name?? I really never did stand a chance lol.

 

I've been a member of eBay since 1996 and bought mainly plastic models, sold some too.

Most bids take place in the final seconds. With smart phone apps, you aren't even tied to a computer to snipe any more.

There are also plenty of auctions that never receive bids, are relisted and then sell for several times what the unsold price was. I've kicked myself when I miss out on these. But sometimes I don't bid, and then when the item goes unsold, the seller relists it at less money so I get an even better deal. That's the chance you take.

A few years ago, I listed a bunch of old motorized kits and they sold for over $1000 total. I don't think the kits cost me over $100 total.

A couple of years ago, my garage door opener died. I replaced it with a newer one and needed a couple extra new style clickers. I searched on eBay for them and found quite a market for my old one. I ended up selling my old clickers, the old keypad and the motor from the old opener (just the circuit board was bad) for more money in various auctions that the new opener cost at Lowe's.

As far as shipping goes, blame the bad sellers who used to sell $20 kits for $5 + $20 shipping instead of $20 + $5 shipping to cheat eBay from their fees.

eBay sniping has been around so long, it's not funny. All the more reasons I don't bid anymore on eBay. Often times, I find better deals using the Buy It Now method. I agree, watch the S&H charges too.