Ship Trivia Quiz

HNLMS De Zeven Provincien - remodeled from an all-gun cruiser to a ...?

The HNLMS De Zeven Provinciën (C802) was a De Zeven Provinciën class cruiser with eight 152 mm cannons in double towers, 8 × 57 mm and 8 × 40 mm machine guns. The rear tower was replaced in 1962 with a RIM-2 Terrier SAM system. She was 185.7 m long, had a beam of 17.25 m and a draft of 6.85 m. She displaced 12,250 t and could achieve a speed of 32.2 knots. She had a crew of 957.^[1]

Construction started in 1939 as the HNLMS Kijkduin, but was interrupted by World War II. She was renamed to HNLMS Eendracht in 1940 and HNLMS De Ruyter in 1945. Her sister ship was launched in 1944 as the HNLMS De Zeven Provinciën, but the ships swapped to their final names in 1950. She was completed in 1953 and served the Royal Netherlands Navy from 1950 to 1977. She was sold to Peru in August 1976 and was renamed BAP Aguirre (CH-84) on 24 February 1978.

HNLMS De Ruyter - - remodeled from an all-gun cruiser to a ...? read above.

HMS Camperdown was a Battle-class destroyer launched in 1944 and broken up in 1970

Well, not all what I had in mind, but that's nothing new here, is it?

But how do you rationalize these with "...all later remodeled to add an entirely new dimension to their war-fighting capability."?

 HNLMS De Zeven Provincien - remodeled from an all-gun cruiser to a ...?

 HNLMS De Ruyter - - remodeled from an all-gun cruiser to a ...?

 HMS Camperdown - - remodeled from a standard destroyer to a ...?

Just curious  

Three ships that meet the criteria are:

HNLMS De Zeven Provincien - Dutch/German/Dutch/Peruvian cruiser

      -   started 1939, first commision 1947, transfered 1973, scrapped 1999

HNLMS De Ruyter - Dutch/German/Dutch/Peruvian cruiser

       -   same as above but... still commissioned!!!

HMS Camperdown - British Battle Class Destroyer

       - Commissioned June 1945, scrapped 1970 

Three ships that were started during WWII, finished afterward, and all later remodeled to add an entirely new dimension to their war-fighting capability.

And all three had names that recalled various Anglo-Dutch Wars.

What ships?

I was using David Lyon's The Sailing Navy List, All the Ships of the Royal Navy, Built, Purchased and Captured, 1688-1860, first published in 1993.  He lists Royal Katherine/Ramilies as being broken up in 1741. According to Lyons, the 2nd Ramilies had her keel laid in 1743 per the 1741 establishment and was launched in 1749.

Double checking with Brian Lavery's The Ship of the Line Volume I first published in 1983, he lists the 2nd Ramilies as a new ship, launched in 1749 under "Ship List VIII, 1741-1755", but under "Rebuilds, pre-establishment, 1697-1706", he lists the Royal Katherine with a note "rebuilt in 1749". There is no reference to the vessels in the text.  So there may be a correlation with the Constellation: the new Ramilies was 8 feet longer, 4 feet wider, and 2 feet deeper at 1689 tons vs. 1395 tons for Royal Katherine.

Hmm.  That's interesting.  I was quoting (should I have cited my reference?  we don't seem to do that here usually) from "British Warship Names", by Capt T.D. Manning & Cdr C.F. Walker, 1959.  But after I posted it, I found nearly the same answer in the dreaded wikipedia, excepting that it added a nugget that the ship was "...taken apart and rebuilt in 1740..."

 So the Name Lists for the Royal Navy that I've seen don't grade this 1740 vessel as the second ship of the name.  Where did you see it written that way?

At any rate, it sounds like our beloved US Frigate Constellation, a 38 gun frigate parked in a drydock in 1856, taken apart, and some of the materials used for a 22 gun sloop that was built in the adjoining yard, also named Constellation.

I'll work up a question this evening.

Ramilies was the answer that I was looking for.  

Getting into the trivial trivia... Byng's Ramilies was actually the 2nd  of six vessels to be named for the Duke's victory. The ex-Royal Katherine was broken up in 1741 and replaced with a 1741 Estalishment 2nd rate. The name was passed on through the sailing ship period to a 74 gun 3rd rate, launched in in 1763, and another 74, launched in 1785 (which wasn't broken up until 1850!). During the steam period, the name was passed on to a Royal Sovereign class 13.5" battleship in 1892 and then to a Revenge Class 15" Super-dreadnought in 1916.

Rick, the floor is yours.

Whoops.  I always thought he was shot on the quarterdeck of his flagship.  Guess I need to read that book by Dudley Pope - "At Twelve Mr. Byng was Shot".

 At any rate, it turns out that HMS Ramilies was named to commemorate the victory of the Duke of Marlborough over the French in 1706.  Ramilies was a 2nd rate,  ex-Royal Katherine, renamed in 1706, wrecked in 1760.

Hmmm.  "The basis for her name."...

HMS Monarch was formerly Monarque, a prize taken in 1747.   So she was originally named after a different country's monarch.  Is that what you're getting at?

I like this admiral's thread...

What was the flagship of the "unfortunate Admiral Byng" at the battle causing his misfortune and the basis for her name?

ok... quick and easy.

De Ruyter's flagship was the Zeven Provincien, representing the seven provinces of the Dutch Republic.

If Mr. DDP59 doesn't come back in a day or two to say whether his question was answered satisfactorily or not, let's just go ahead and move on with the answer to Jake's question.

Jake?  Did Searat provide the correct answer to your question?  If so, then Mr. Searat will have the floor.

Big Jake wrote:

Ok, I finally got one that may trip a few of you fine folks up. What is the name of the ship that has written on it in Latin HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE "Evil to him who evil thinks"   AND DIEU ET MON DROIT "God and my duty".   DO NOT GOOGLE THIS!, Thats Cheating

Ok, I finally got one that may trip a few of you fine folks up.

What is the name of the ship that has written on it in Latin

HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE "Evil to him who evil thinks"   AND

DIEU ET MON DROIT "God and my duty".

DO NOT GOOGLE THIS!, Thats Cheating

Sure thing, Duke.

There are probably several ways to handle that request, but one is to look at some photos in Navsource.  Remember, we can't link directly to Navsource photos from here, so I will take you to a page and try to describe the correct picture to look at.

Original rig (5" gun, ASROC, no CIWS or Harpoon)
Look at the page for O'Bannon (DD-987), http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/987.htm, second image down from the top. 

 Late rig with Tomahawk Armored Box Launcher:
See Leftwich (DD-984) http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/984.htm, the photo marked "July 1986, location unknown", is best to see the ABL, as well as all the other post 1985 photos.  The Comte DeGrasse (DD-974) page shows Comte DeGrasse along withbattleship Iowa and DD Deyo, where both DDs have the ABL.

 Late rig with Vertical Launching System (VLS)
See O'Bannon again http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/987.htm, and look at the fifth image down from the top to see the VLS farm that replaced the ASROC launcher and see the CIWS gun.  Also Stump (DD-978) http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/978.htm has a great VLS image in the middle of the list.

Also, there are good photos of the Radford (DD-968 ), with her mast enclosure at http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/968.htm

 All ships got the Harpoon canisters in mid-career. 
One excellent photo is on the page for Cushing (DD-985) at http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/985.htm in the middle of the page, marked "040506-N-7586B-085, Gulf of Oman May 6 2004".  You can see the Harpoon launchers especially well here.

I hope that helps,
  Rick

Kind of a subjective question -

do you mean the significant variations?  There were two classes - the Spruance class destroyers and the Kidd class of DDGs that were built for mid-east operations for Iran.

 Or do you mean to include variations within the Spruance class?  The final ship, USS Hayler was built differently from the first group, and there were weapons changes throughout the life of the class - original ASROC mounts, Tomahawk ABL, VL, Harpoon & CIWS added in mid-career...

DDP59 has it!

Navy battleship strategy in the 1920s and 30s envisioned 10 large dirigibles stationed in Hawaii to provide strategic recon in advance of the fleet. Five dirigibles at a time, equipped with five F9C-2 Sparrowhawk "parasitic" fighters could form a moving recon line over 1000 miles wide, advancing at 80 knots...  five times the speed of a light cruiser screen. The dirigibles had a flight duration capability of over 9000 miles. By the mid 1930's,the Sparrowhawks were equipped with both keyed & voice radio communications as well as radio homing back to the carrier ship. With two .30 caliber machine guns firing through the propeller and a 50-75 knot speed advantage over float planes of the period, the F9C-2 was capable of taking care of itself.

USS Akron and USS Macon were the first two (and only) purpose built lighter than air aircraft carriers. Both were lost at sea, Akron crashed into the Atlantic on 04 April 1933, taking 72 crewman down with her, including RADM William Moffett, Chief of the Navy Bureau of Aeronautics. There were only three survivors. The general practice was for the airship to takeoff without her aircraft, and then embark them later on the "trapeze". Fog grounded the Akron's aircraft on the day of departure (April 3) and all aircraft and pilots survived.

As DDP59 mentions, USS Macon, crashed into the Pacific, two years later. Macon had just completed fleet excercises and was returning to Naval Air Station Sunnyvale, when high winds damaged her aft dorsal fin (due to a known design defect that was due for correction) and she was set down into the water off of Point Sur. 83 of 85 crewmembers, including all of her Heavier than Air group, survived. The four Sparrowhawks on board went down with her.

Interestingly, the Navy chose not to replace the Akron and Macon, or continue with the construction of the other eight dirigibles, not because of the perceived supremacy of CVs, but because of the rapid advancements in flying boat technologies. Two months after Macon's loss the Consolidated PBY-1 made its first flight. With a flight duration of over 4000 miles, a unit cost of $90,000, and the ability to carry offensive weapons, hundreds of Catalinas were a much better bargain than spending $40,000,000 on ten dirigibles.

ddp59, the floor is yours.

Close, but not the answer that I am looking for. Langley was actually the third Navy vessel with an air group to be lost. This one was equipped with observation and fighter aircraft, not seaplanes. It was not lost as a result of enemy action.