The life and death of hobbies...

Sparrowhyperion

I totally agree.  To put it simply.  We are raising a population that is 90% spoiled rotten.  I see my Daughter's friends and I think "Thank the powers that be that Marissa is not like that."

I often feel myself thinking that way, but then I realize it is too simplistic.  It is not that the younger generation today has been 'spoiled rotten', though there are those that have.  It is simply that, as our society has changed, what is important to them has also changed. 

I think the most salient point that was brought up was not to criticize technology, but instead to be concerned about the pace of technological change.  The rate at which things change in modern society has a disorienting effect...

Bgrigg

I find it very amusing to read a computer forum where people are complaining about technology. I can't be the only person who sees the irony of that, am I? At what point should we say enough? Before we cure cancer, or after? Should we have stopped at the Feudal State stage, or should we aim higher? Perhaps that golden nostalgic time in the 50s, where the cars had lots of chrome and June Cleaver looked so nice in her string of pearls, and the kids had crew cuts, father knew best, and the colored people used those fountains over there? Should the height of our technology be the backyard bomb shelter?

fermis

 That kind of activity is like a plaque around here, and add tresspassing to the list. Too many people, not enough places to hunt. A couple years ago, while driving home from work, my wife called me and said a guy parked in our driveway and headed off into MY woods. In the 10 minutes it took me to get home, he had left. I tracked his footprint, in the snow, to my blind. This clown actually climbed into it.

In the late 90s I worked for the US Forest Service and lived in a house at the station. One day a pig hunter drives into the compound and sets up a short distance from my house (I could have hit hiom with arock from my back door). I told him it was a government work site and he can't hunt here, and he tells me "its not posted so F off". Rather than get into an argument, I just pulled the fire engine out and "tested" the siren for the 10 minutes or so it took him to pack up and leave.

I totally agree.  To put it simply.  We are raising a population that is 90% spoiled rotten.  I see my Daughter's friends and I think "Thank the powers that be that Marissa is not like that."

the doog

 

Sparrowhyperion:

 

They are liable to come out as brainless, self absorbed, narcissistic twits who can't even do long division in their heads without a calculator.

 

 

A recent study claims that there has been a rise in narcissistic personality disorder among the young. The 'I love me" generation has used self-affirmation and baseless pride to obscure and hide the epidemic lack of achievement and critical thinking that characterizes much of the younger generations.

 

Now before anyone goes thinking I'm criticizing THEIR prodigious progeny, there ARE some remarkable young people out there who are infinitely bright and offer great hope for the future. My fiancee is one of them, so I know that they exist.

But look at Facebook--the ultimate narcissist's dream. You too, can let someone know that you have a new hole in our sock, or have just successfully found the perfect setting for the toaster so that it doesn't burn our bagel. I'm practically on the edge of my seat with excitement...

I agree with you on blaming technology, but I just think we may have come too far too fast.  We strictly limit time on the PC to our Daughter and to some extent, ourselves.  Marissa has been learning Trumpet for a few years now and is in her school band.  She also helps with my kits sometimes and occaisonally does her own.  But her BIG passion is art.  And she is REALLY good.  She wants to become an animator for Pixar or Dreamworks when she is older.  I would love to send her to a good art college but I think she will have to do the local college thing unless she can get a scholarship.  She has quite a few activities she enjoys and that's a good thing.  The problem is that there are too many parents who themselves were brought up with too much tech.  A lot of the people in my generation didn't realize the effect it would have on their kids so didn't move to limit the time of use.  They thought it was as cool as their kids did.  So the behavior pattern carried over.  I was lucky that my family was usually pretty tight on money.  My Dad could give scrooge a lesson in economics.  We never had a color TV up into the 80s.  I had to save 2 years of my own money to buy my Atari 2600 (Sears Telegames System).  Heck, I was 10 before I got my first bike.  But you know what?  I think it actually helped me become more balanced when I did get into technology.  When I was in HS, I entered a local science fair.  My project was a Helium Neon laser.  I didn't win the 1st place prize of $5000, but I DID win 2nd.  Which was an Altair 8080 computer kit.  Which I actually liked better.  But even then, I was careful not to let the build and operation of it take too much of my time.  And this is how I have brought up my Daughter (although we do have a color TV set by now).

I remember sliderules.  I probably still have one kicking around here somewhere.  I was in my Jr. year in HS when they allowed us to use calculators in a very limited way (only to check our work).  I got a TI30 which is pretty much what everyone else in class had.  But we could not use them to do the problems.  Just to verify oru work.  Marissa's school is just getting into Algebra now and they tell them to use the calculators.  I don't think this is a good way to teach them math.   So I spend quite a bit of time teaching her how to actually do it in her head.

Amazingly, we got her a cell phone for emergency use only, and she never uses it.  I don't think it a question of saying "enough", but its a question of teaching ourselves as a society that we need to develop ourselves outside of our tech.  We need to relearn lost skills and preserve them.  And we need to limit the temptation to spend 48 hours straight staring at a monitor zapping our friend's virtual dudes.

BTW, I hated crew cuts.

Rich

Bgrigg

Blaming technology is turning the blame from the people truly responsible. The parents. Your kid spends too much time watching TV? Whose fault is that? Who bought and paid for the TV and cable? I have lots of tech in my home. My two sons each have a computer, and have had their own for most of their lives. We also have game consoles and DVDs. But we also have guitars and pianos, kazoos, tambourines, bongos, maracas, harmonicas, fifes, and recorders. We have paper and crayons and ink. We have saws and hammers and wood. Gardens to plant and lawns to play on. And my wife and I made sure that the kids saw US doing those activities. If you lead, they will follow.

I play computer and video games myself. I can see how someone could spend far too much time playing them. That's why I limit my kid's activities on those items (its why I limit my OWN time), and have them do other activities. It's why I have introduced them to music (one plays piano and the other guitar). I hear other parents complaining that they can't get their kids to practice their piano scales, and my kids practice at least an hour a day. The difference usually is that the other parents don't play, and I do. They invited a friend over on Saturday and they jammed for four hours straight. Not once did they play a computer or video game. They didn't even spend any time texting on their cells, as they were all having far too much fun. They also didn't take time to empty my fridge, for which I am truly grateful. Three teenage boys in a kitchen is a frightening sight!

The calculators required by middle and high school students are scientific calculators. Long division in the head is one thing (and is a skill my children have learned), but trigonometry and calculus is a bit more difficult without a tool of some kind. When I was a kid in those dark days just before Texas Instruments, we used slide rules. I still have mine right here (Sterling Slide Rule by Precision Scientific Instruments) on my desk as a reminder of the days before computers. But I stopped using it exactly when I got my first TI calculator!

I find it very amusing to read a computer forum where people are complaining about technology. I can't be the only person who sees the irony of that, am I? At what point should we say enough? Before we cure cancer, or after? Should we have stopped at the Feudal State stage, or should we aim higher? Perhaps that golden nostalgic time in the 50s, where the cars had lots of chrome and June Cleaver looked so nice in her string of pearls, and the kids had crew cuts, father knew best, and the colored people used those fountains over there? Should the height of our technology be the backyard bomb shelter?

Bgrigg

...or have just successfully found the perfect setting for the toaster so that it doesn't burn our bagel. I'm practically on the edge of my seat with excitement...

I can't get my toaster to even TOAST the damnable bagel, let alone risk burning it. Perhaps if I were on Facebook?

[/quote]Go to the "how not to burn your bagel" group page. lol to share your trials and tribulations. You too, will find fortitude and solidarity with others who share the same misfortunes and unfairness of life.

...or have just successfully found the perfect setting for the toaster so that it doesn't burn our bagel. I'm practically on the edge of my seat with excitement...

[/quote]

I can't get my toaster to even TOAST the damnable bagel, let alone risk burning it. Perhaps if I were on Facebook?

Sparrowhyperion

They are liable to come out as brainless, self absorbed, narcissistic twits who can't even do long division in their heads without a calculator.

 

Now before anyone goes thinking I'm criticizing THEIR prodigious progeny, there ARE some remarkable young people out there who are infinitely bright and offer great hope for the future. My fiancee is one of them, so I know that they exist.

But look at Facebook--the ultimate narcissist's dream. You too, can let someone know that you have a new hole in our sock, or have just successfully found the perfect setting for the toaster so that it doesn't burn our bagel. I'm practically on the edge of my seat with excitement...

Blaming technology is turning the blame from the people truly responsible. The parents. Your kid spends too much time watching TV? Whose fault is that? Who bought and paid for the TV and cable? I have lots of tech in my home. My two sons each have a computer, and have had their own for most of their lives. We also have game consoles and DVDs. But we also have guitars and pianos, kazoos, tambourines, bongos, maracas, harmonicas, fifes, and recorders. We have paper and crayons and ink. We have saws and hammers and wood. Gardens to plant and lawns to play on. And my wife and I made sure that the kids saw US doing those activities. If you lead, they will follow.

I play computer and video games myself. I can see how someone could spend far too much time playing them. That's why I limit my kid's activities on those items (its why I limit my OWN time), and have them do other activities. It's why I have introduced them to music (one plays piano and the other guitar). I hear other parents complaining that they can't get their kids to practice their piano scales, and my kids practice at least an hour a day. The difference usually is that the other parents don't play, and I do. They invited a friend over on Saturday and they jammed for four hours straight. Not once did they play a computer or video game. They didn't even spend any time texting on their cells, as they were all having far too much fun. They also didn't take time to empty my fridge, for which I am truly grateful. Three teenage boys in a kitchen is a frightening sight!

The calculators required by middle and high school students are scientific calculators. Long division in the head is one thing (and is a skill my children have learned), but trigonometry and calculus is a bit more difficult without a tool of some kind. When I was a kid in those dark days just before Texas Instruments, we used slide rules. I still have mine right here (Sterling Slide Rule by Precision Scientific Instruments) on my desk as a reminder of the days before computers. But I stopped using it exactly when I got my first TI calculator!

I find it very amusing to read a computer forum where people are complaining about technology. I can't be the only person who sees the irony of that, am I? At what point should we say enough? Before we cure cancer, or after? Should we have stopped at the Feudal State stage, or should we aim higher? Perhaps that golden nostalgic time in the 50s, where the cars had lots of chrome and June Cleaver looked so nice in her string of pearls, and the kids had crew cuts, father knew best, and the colored people used those fountains over there? Should the height of our technology be the backyard bomb shelter?

If the sticker shock keeps up, you will need to award it posthumously...

paintsniffer

 

Sparrowhyperion:

 

When my wife decides to go get me paint and/or glue at the local HobbyTown USA, she comes home and the first words out of her are "The damn prices went up again..  She hands me a small bag with a couple of  jars of Model Master enamel and maybe a can or so of Spray and then stocks off into the other room.  I look at the receipt and almost have another heart attack on the spot.  And then the guilt starts.

 

 

 

 

 

Manny? I think it is time to bestow a 229 badge.

Sparrowhyperion

When my wife decides to go get me paint and/or glue at the local HobbyTown USA, she comes home and the first words out of her are "The damn prices went up again..  She hands me a small bag with a couple of  jars of Model Master enamel and maybe a can or so of Spray and then stocks off into the other room.  I look at the receipt and almost have another heart attack on the spot.  And then the guilt starts.

 

 

Manny? I think it is time to bestow a 229 badge.

Wow.

In terms of modeling being expensive...it's all relative. Next to golf, next to working on cars, heck, next to gardening and yard supplies, it's pretty inexpensive. I spend less on modeling in a month than I do on the one night my wife and I get out and away from the kids each month.

I don't think the kits are all that expensive, if you're careful. I recently threw down around $50 for a Tasca Sherman, but outside of that, the overwhelming majority of kits I've purchased have been less than $25. And that's not just Revellogram repops. Tamiya, Accurate Miniatures, Hasegawa, Zvezda, AFV Club...

Supplies are more expensive than in the past, but so's everything else. I remember back in 1999 when the price of gas jumped from around $0.93 to $1.43 and thought it was ridiculous. Nowadays when it sometimes drops under $2.75 I think it's a steal. 20 oz. soft drinks are now $1.49. A few years ago they were $1.09. The problem is that, unless you're in the upper 5% of the income curve, wages have stayed pretty much flat for the last decade. And now things like broadband and a cell phone plan are pretty much mandatory to keep pace with the world...

In terms of today's kids, I think y'all are being way too hard on them. Every generation looks at succeeding generations and sees a bunch of listless, good-for-nothing kids. This has been happening since there were people. We tend to look back with rose-colored glasses. Not to mention the innocence of childhood. Changing technology means changing attention-getters. I'm 30 - I grew up when video games first went really mainstream - played the heck out of them, too. I'd even credit some of them with getting me even more into modeling (hello Aces of the Pacific!). But...I developed interests and hobbies outside of video games. And you know what, over time, so did every one of my friends. Of my circle of friends growing up, I've got several who work on cars (and not changing the oil...like full drivetrain replacements). I've got one who's become a hardcore foodie. Another who's big into the homebrewing scene. Another builds robots. Another builds kayaks. 

I have no doubt that today's kids will wind up the same way. The internet and video games and technology are all fantastic, and have their place, but there's a certain, in-built yearning to do something with our hands. It's why I came back to modeling. And it's why today's kids will find their hobbies in time.

I never saw that show, but now I am going to try and see it.  I think it's not just our over technological society, but attitudes of people, especially some parents.  Example.  A few weeks back I was watching House Hunters with my wife.  Now for those of you unfamiliar with the show, it is about some spoiled yuppie couple or family looking to buy their third or fourth home, and hunting through three houses that 99% of us could never afford.  In the particular episode I am speaking of, this couple and their 3 children were leaving this beautiful victorian house because "The house isn't big enough for their computer and video game room".  This was a 6 bedroom VICTORIAN.  It was huge.  But apparently they wanted to put more equipment in the computer room.  Now I live in a mobile home.  My career was in the computer and internet field until I was disabled, and we do have three systems.  My system is the biggest in the house.  I do some 3D computer modeling in addition to plastic modeling so it is a very powerful 4 core system.  My Wife has a dual core system which was mine until I built this one.  Still fairly mid level.  She needs it because she is in school going for a bachelors in medical office management and technology.  My Daughter has an older system that has gone through both myself and my wife.  It's a dual core and is suitable for the simple games she plays, none of which are online, and her school work.  We also have a small laptop I had to get Deb (the wifey) for the times when she needs to bring it to school with her.

We have to make due with what space we have.  We only have twwo small bedrooms and my Daughter's room is so small that we need to keep her system out in the living room with her mom's.  So I know how much space is absolutely required for a system.

When I see someone beocheeing because they have to push their systems 6" closer together and they are giving up what I would consider my dream house, tit makes me want to hurl.  They eventually bought this larger new construction butt ugly house that had absolutely no character and looked like the inside of a shopping mall.

The point of all this is that when I see people making life altering decisions because they feel a need to based on a very very trivial aspect of technology, I know the world is going to the basement in a hand basket..

Rich

jhilden

Pastime evolution accelerated big time with technology that lead to many over-stimulated activities.  As someone who once did spend hours playing video games, I can attest to the awful "brain dead" feeling after a gaming session and wanting more.  Today's games are not the Atari 2600 of the 80's and immerse players deeply into the game like nothing else can.  The addictiveness of trying to get to the next level can be compared to crack.  Google "WOW" and see how players have stayed up for over 48 hours straight playing.  The epiphany that ended my video game playing was when I did reach the conclusion of a very tough game.  What was there to celebrate or enjoy in the aftermath? I sat in front of the computer laboring for hours upon end with nothing to show and nothing gained in respect to skills or knowledge.  Since my playing days, games have evolved to literally never end and are only stopped playing when the next improved version is released.

Another one of the lures I can identify with video games compared to modeling is simplicity.  To play a game, I just turn on, play, and when done, turn off.  With modeling, my biggest gripe was preparation and clean up; especially when I did not have a dedicated work area.  Modeling can also be overwhelming to a prospective hobbyist once they discover that to get a model to look like it does on the box, you not only need to develop the skill, but acquire many supplemental supplies/equipment. 

But the best presentation of the sign of the times in respect to today's culture was a British TV show, James May's "Toy Story" and the episode "Airfix" that aired on BBC America.  The plot of the show was to build a 1:1 Spitfire from parts created exactly like the kit, sprues and all.  The subplot was to get school aged kids to participate, but to ensure they were up tot the task, the host introduced them to the hobby and put them through a mini model building "boot camp".  The kids initial reactions and response to building the kits explains it all.

jhilden

Pastime evolution accelerated big time with technology that lead to many over-stimulated activities.  As someone who once did spend hours playing video games, I can attest to the awful "brain dead" feeling after a gaming session and wanting more.  Today's games are not the Atari 2600 of the 80's and immerse players deeply into the game like nothing else can.  The addictiveness of trying to get to the next level can be compared to crack.  Google "WOW" and see how players have stayed up for over 48 hours straight playing.  The epiphany that ended my video game playing was when I did reach the conclusion of a very tough game.  What was there to celebrate or enjoy in the aftermath? I sat in front of the computer laboring for hours upon end with nothing to show and nothing gained in respect to skills or knowledge.  Since my playing days, games have evolved to literally never end and are only stopped playing when the next improved version is released.

Another one of the lures I can identify with video games compared to modeling is simplicity.  To play a game, I just turn on, play, and when done, turn off.  With modeling, my biggest gripe was preparation and clean up; especially when I did not have a dedicated work area.  Modeling can also be overwhelming to a prospective hobbyist once they discover that to get a model to look like it does on the box, you not only need to develop the skill, but acquire many supplemental supplies/equipment. 

But the best presentation of the sign of the times in respect to today's culture was a British TV show, James May's "Toy Story" and the episode "Airfix" that aired on BBC America.  The plot of the show was to build a 1:1 Spitfire from parts created exactly like the kit, sprues and all.  The subplot was to get school aged kids to participate, but to ensure they were up tot the task, the host introduced them to the hobby and put them through a mini model building "boot camp".  The kids initial reactions and response to building the kits explains it all.

Scary isn't it.  I think it's more in what we do with technology.  We have this vast computing power at our disposal and what are we doing with it...?  We are building devices that let kids blow up virtual people controlled by other kids across the world.  We are building little gizmos that allow our kids to carry around a couple of thousand MP3 files.  And we are wasting a huge percentage of the economy on "Virtual Goods" on sites like Facebook.  If we took all of the worlds existing computer power and channeled it into something productive all at once, we would probably have a cure for cancer in a day and faster than light travel a day after that.

Face it.  Without  technology, 90% of the population would starve or freeze to death (in the northern climes).  We put way way too much faith in technology.  There needs to be some point where we say..  Enough..  And put our efforts into something really useful.  Like teaching kids how to hunt and fish and farm, and survive for the day the big freeze comes. lol

bbrowniii

 

Sparrowhyperion:

 

I really feel that our modern technology (like most things in life) has become too much of a good thing.  It has managed to brew up a whole generation which are almost totally dependent on it.  What would modern kids do if you took away their cell, mp3 player, TV, notebook, and video games?

 

 

You've just summed up one of the biggest dillemas facing the human species - the fact that our culture (all that technology stuff) has insulated us further and further from our biology.  Consider that as recently as 10,000 years ago, ALL humans lived as hunters and gatherers.  Today, it is less than 1/10th of 1%.  And yet, should some global technological catastrophe happen, it would be these people most likely to survive...  That is why I tell my students that the worst mistake humans ever made was agriculture... but that is a discussion for another thread.

Exactly my point.  Kids today don't have to do much physically and even less thinking.  Now let me pose a question..

When I was growing up, electronic calculators didn't drop below the $100 mark until I was in Jr. High.  What would a school in that time period do if they caught a kid sitting in math class with a calculator?  In my school, they would have gotten enough detention time to paint the Great Wall of China, and probably a three day to a week suspension as well.

Now my 14 year old is in 7th. Grade now.  At the beginning of the school year, she brought home a list of supplies the school said we needed to get for her, other than basics like Paper and Pencils (What the heck are we paying tax money for..), one item caught my attention.  AA Texas Instruments scientific calculator.  They REQUIRED that she have it in math class!  This is probably the dumbest thing I have ever heard.  Luckily I make sure Marissa keeps up on her manual skills by helping me with kits and even doing a small one or two of her own.

I am really worried about when it gets to the point that the kids in Jr. High and High School now get out into the world.  They are liable to come out as brainless, self absorbed, narcissistic twits who can't even do long division in their heads without a calculator.

VanceCrozier

 

 

 

 

... and along with that dependence on technology comes a lessening of creative/free thinking, not only is there instant gratification, we don't have to think too much about it. (Sort of related - I was at a local fast-food place a few years ago when the line came to a screeching halt when somebody ordered a salad. The problem?? "The guy who makes the salads isn't here tonight..." How bloody difficult is it to make a salad for someone!?

Pastime evolution accelerated big time with technology that lead to many over-stimulated activities.  As someone who once did spend hours playing video games, I can attest to the awful "brain dead" feeling after a gaming session and wanting more.  Today's games are not the Atari 2600 of the 80's and immerse players deeply into the game like nothing else can.  The addictiveness of trying to get to the next level can be compared to crack.  Google "WOW" and see how players have stayed up for over 48 hours straight playing.  The epiphany that ended my video game playing was when I did reach the conclusion of a very tough game.  What was there to celebrate or enjoy in the aftermath? I sat in front of the computer laboring for hours upon end with nothing to show and nothing gained in respect to skills or knowledge.  Since my playing days, games have evolved to literally never end and are only stopped playing when the next improved version is released.

Another one of the lures I can identify with video games compared to modeling is simplicity.  To play a game, I just turn on, play, and when done, turn off.  With modeling, my biggest gripe was preparation and clean up; especially when I did not have a dedicated work area.  Modeling can also be overwhelming to a prospective hobbyist once they discover that to get a model to look like it does on the box, you not only need to develop the skill, but acquire many supplemental supplies/equipment. 

But the best presentation of the sign of the times in respect to today's culture was a British TV show, James May's "Toy Story" and the episode "Airfix" that aired on BBC America.  The plot of the show was to build a 1:1 Spitfire from parts created exactly like the kit, sprues and all.  The subplot was to get school aged kids to participate, but to ensure they were up tot the task, the host introduced them to the hobby and put them through a mini model building "boot camp".  The kids initial reactions and response to building the kits explains it all.

Yeh Manny, but that would entail actually going into a store and buying something in person, then going home with it, having to actually open the plastic wrap (that part could be a deal breaker for some of the more lethargic ones), and then put it together with their own two hands..lol

Manstein's revenge

 

Sparrowhyperion:

 

 What would modern kids do if you took away their cell, mp3 player, TV, notebook, and video games?

 

 

 

 

Build models...

 

When my wife decides to go get me paint and/or glue at the local HobbyTown USA, she comes home and the first words out of her are "The damn prices went up again..  She hands me a small bag with a couple of  jars of Model Master enamel and maybe a can or so of Spray and then stocks off into the other room.  I look at the receipt and almost have another heart attack on the spot.  And then the guilt starts.  Now I am of Italian decent, and she is (get this) German and Irish; and you could put her in a guilt trip contest against a group of 50 Italian and 50 Jewish grandmothers acting in unison, and she would win by a landslide...  What's more, she would have the group feeling guilty about competing with her...

I only use Tamiya for Acrylics.  For enamels I use Model Master, unless I need a rare color that they don't make.  When I started modeling, there was just Testors white cap 1/4oz bottles and the same size of Pactra.  The cans were 3oz, and didn't come in a lot of colors back then.  Tamiya and the other brands were impossible to get.  Tools and other supplies like glue were less back then.  You had a few limited choices for Glue.  Notox which was this lemony smelling nasty stuff that melted everything plastic, Testors blue and red label tube glues.  and Testors Liquid.  Which you had to be unbelievably careful with since it had the consistency of alcohol, and spattered in your eye really easily. 

If I remember, the tube glues were about $0.79 and the liquid was like $1.25.  Paint was about $0.89 for jars and $2.25 for cans.  The average price of a decent 1/48 kit was about $6.00 to $20.00 depending on the kit.

Yes stuff is way way more expensive, but given the limited demand nowadays, I am surprised it is not more expensive.

the doog

 

bondoman:

 

The hobby is getting too expensive. I'm kinda winding down on it because I'm a little tired of paying $ 3.50 a bottle for paint and $ 7.00 for glue.  It's also getting harder and harder to pay less than about $ 30,00 for a kit, which is about my limit.

 

 

 

I could NOT AGREE MORE with this statement!!!!

I go to the LHS and before I even know it, I'm walking out with like, $40-50 worth of paint and simple, basic supplies.. It's ridiculous.

And the sizes of everything is getting smaller. Tamiya's paint cans give you enough to paint like, one model these days. Remember the big jars? Just a memory these days....

Sparrowhyperion

I really feel that our modern technology (like most things in life) has become too much of a good thing.  It has managed to brew up a whole generation which are almost totally dependent on it.  What would modern kids do if you took away their cell, mp3 player, TV, notebook, and video games?

You've just summed up one of the biggest dillemas facing the human species - the fact that our culture (all that technology stuff) has insulated us further and further from our biology.  Consider that as recently as 10,000 years ago, ALL humans lived as hunters and gatherers.  Today, it is less than 1/10th of 1%.  And yet, should some global technological catastrophe happen, it would be these people most likely to survive...  That is why I tell my students that the worst mistake humans ever made was agriculture... but that is a discussion for another thread.

Manstein's revenge

 

VanceCrozier:

 

 

 

...How bloody difficult is it to make a salad for someone!?

 

Depends on the type of salad...

 

Uhh, garden salads was all they were doing at that point! And after talking to a buddy that used to work at (something that rhymes with "Bendy's"), I was informed that there are PICTURES for all those items at the prep counters...

VanceCrozier

Sparrowhyperion:

Yes, I have heard about the increasing in poaching.  I haven't hunted in years.  Most of it because I don't get around very well anymore, but that is something I wish I could still do.  Man I miss the taste of Venison.  The kids today would be in serious trouble if anything ever happened and society collapsed.  The few of us who knew how to hunt and raise crops would have to sit and watch as they vainly tried to text starbucks for a delivery order of Latte and a lox bagel.. 

I really feel that our modern technology (like most things in life) has become too much of a good thing.  It has managed to brew up a whole generation which are almost totally dependent on it.  What would modern kids do if you took away their cell, mp3 player, TV, notebook, and video games?

 

 

 

 

...How bloody difficult is it to make a salad for someone!?

You and I have the same problem.  Except I have to make do with under $20 every few months...  My wife did let me spend $25 once last year, but that was for that huge Forbidden Planet C57D Space Cruiser kit Morpheus puts out.  Open box, but parts still sealed in bags and complete.  That puppy can go for over $100 plus shipping, so I sucked up like I have never sucked up before. LMAO.  Seriously, yes it's expensive.  Everything is expensive nowadays.  I can no longer see a kit in a store or even at a yard sale and just snag it.  I have to plan my purchase a month or so in advance at least.  Then there is a two week suck up period to get the wifey to let me, and a few days to try not too guilty about it.  Then I have to plan on what it will cost on supplies.  Glue, Paint etc.  I have to go to my paints bin and make sure I have the correct colors and hope they haven't gone bad. (I wish to heck that Testor's would use plastic instead of cardboard to seal their bottles.  Regular and Model masters, the paper seals in the caps always disintegrate and the paint goes bad.)  I'm disabled which mean I spend all day, just about every day sitting here with little or nothing to do.  So modeling is the only thing that keeps me sane.  Otherwise I don't think I would be doing it anymore.

Rich

bondoman

The hobby is getting too expensive. I'm kinda winding down on it because I'm a little tired of paying $ 3.50 a bottle for paint and $ 7.00 for glue.  It's also getting harder and harder to pay less than about $ 30,00 for a kit, which is about my limit.

 

Sparrowhyperion

Yes, I have heard about the increasing in poaching.  I haven't hunted in years.  Most of it because I don't get around very well anymore, but that is something I wish I could still do.  Man I miss the taste of Venison.  The kids today would be in serious trouble if anything ever happened and society collapsed.  The few of us who knew how to hunt and raise crops would have to sit and watch as they vainly tried to text starbucks for a delivery order of Latte and a lox bagel.. 

I really feel that our modern technology (like most things in life) has become too much of a good thing.  It has managed to brew up a whole generation which are almost totally dependent on it.  What would modern kids do if you took away their cell, mp3 player, TV, notebook, and video games?

 

 

 

... and along with that dependence on technology comes a lessening of creative/free thinking, not only is there instant gratification, we don't have to think too much about it. (Sort of related - I was at a local fast-food place a few years ago when the line came to a screeching halt when somebody ordered a salad. The problem?? "The guy who makes the salads isn't here tonight..." How bloody difficult is it to make a salad for someone!?

My Daughter has ADHD.  And she was lucky that they caught it when they did.  We used to live in another school district.  In that district, she was doing horribly in school.  Then we saw a show about ADHD on TV and realized that every description they gave of symptoms fit our Daughter.  Never able to stay on task, flighty, and she had to be doing something at all times. 

We took her down to a clinic in our area which deal with ADHD in children.  They started her on very low doses of medication.  Within 2 weeks we got a note from her teacher saying that her grades were improving dramatically.  Now she is a solid A/B student and has taken up art.  She does play computer games for a limited amount of time each day that she wants to as long as her chores and homework are done.  She took up art a little after she went on her medication and has been winning ribbons at a regional competition she enters every year.  We are very proud of her, but we know that she is liable to be taking her low dose meds for a long time.  Most kids grown out of it at some point.

Another girl in her school we know has it much worse than Marissa.  She has to take a higher dose of meds than Marissa and she is kind of tired at the end of the school day.  But you would never know that Marissa had a problem.

I am afraid she got it from my end of the Gene Pool.  I had Hyperactivity disorder when I was a kid.  I didn't have the Attention Deficit problem part of it though and it actually helped me stay ahead of the other kids at school.  But the problem I had was slowing down enough to do a model without trying to rush it and ending up with a melted plastic mess. lol.

Rich

the doog

I think the hobby will face a drastic draw-down in the coming twenty years. By that time, lots of hardcore modelers will be gone, and the upcoming generation just will not have the patience for it.

One of the things no one has mentioned is the way that technology is actually changing--evolving, I guess could say--our children's brains. You know all that "ADD" nonsense that is so over-prescribed today? Nothing more than too much media. Television is about one of the worst things for developing children. Researchers have found that television changes subject matter so quickly that it actually "programs" the way a child's brain develops. It cause it to expect and "need" input more quickly to stay focused. That's why there's a "seven second rule" in TV land--never leave an image on screen for longer than 7 seconds without changing it. Who knows--it might even be down to five seconds now?

But TV also s a worse medium for trying to "learn" through. So forget about propping baby in front of the tube with some "instructional" video. It is far inferior to input from reading, and does not "stay" in the brain as long as material garnered through reading.

I see a radical lack of attention and focus in some of my guitar students that is scary.And it's a noticeable difference from fifteen years or so ago. Trying to get ids to practice these days is like pulling teeth. They want to learn guitar NOW!--without the investment, without the work. I have to explain to them that it's not "Rock Band"--it's a real guitar.

Sparrowhyperion

 What would modern kids do if you took away their cell, mp3 player, TV, notebook, and video games?

 

Build models...

bondoman

The hobby is getting too expensive. I'm kinda winding down on it because I'm a little tired of paying $ 3.50 a bottle for paint and $ 7.00 for glue.  It's also getting harder and harder to pay less than about $ 30,00 for a kit, which is about my limit.

 

I could NOT AGREE MORE with this statement!!!!

I go to the LHS and before I even know it, I'm walking out with like, $40-50 worth of paint and simple, basic supplies.. It's ridiculous.

And the sizes of everything is getting smaller. Tamiya's paint cans give you enough to paint like, one model these days. Remember the big jars? Just a memory these days....

Yes, I have heard about the increasing in poaching.  I haven't hunted in years.  Most of it because I don't get around very well anymore, but that is something I wish I could still do.  Man I miss the taste of Venison.  The kids today would be in serious trouble if anything ever happened and society collapsed.  The few of us who knew how to hunt and raise crops would have to sit and watch as they vainly tried to text starbucks for a delivery order of Latte and a lox bagel.. 

I really feel that our modern technology (like most things in life) has become too much of a good thing.  It has managed to brew up a whole generation which are almost totally dependent on it.  What would modern kids do if you took away their cell, mp3 player, TV, notebook, and video games?

the doog

 

bbrowniii:

 

Not sure it would qualify as a 'hobby' per se, but here in the northeast there has been a big decline in the number of hunters in recent years.

 

.....and a corresponding increase in poachers and illegal activity. A Pennsylvania Game Management officer was just shot and killed--murdered in the line of duty while investigating reports of after-hours shooting and poaching. 

 

There are a LOT of unethical scumbags out there in the woods. I know of tags abuses, baiting, after-hours shooters and all sorts of shenanigans that I could report if I wanted to.

It seems that most kids these days are too into the video games and technology to sit in the woods, silent, without texting and turning of f the phone or the iPods...not one of my guitar students hunts, and I can't remember one for the last several years.

Ok.  That's cleared up.  If your talking passion.  I see very few people under 25 nowadays that seem to have a passion for anything but their iPhone and Twitter.  I think it's a general trend in society.  As we get more and more distractions from the simpler things, like modeling, the expectation of instant gratification becomes more prevalent.  I see it in my Daughter sometimes.  The kids today just don't seem to be very patient compared to my generation.  Modeling requires patience with a capitol P.

redleg12

Rich - My "middle class" connotation was in no way looking at economic issues....I am looking at it as a parity of the levels passion in the hobby before and now. If you spend $100 bucks is not the issue..... it is the passion that is the issue.

Today the hobby is a disparity of very passionate and occasional modelers. Years ago there was a large "middle class"  or a frequent modeler.

As a father of an 18 year old I agree that todays generation is not into manual skills. They are more into instant gratification.

The economic cost of modeling is an entire different discussion. I was trying to describe passion, commitment, etc.

So hopefully that clears up what I was saying 

Rounds Complete!!

redleg12

Rich - My "middle class" connotation was in no way looking at economic issues....I am looking at it as a parity of the levels passion in the hobby before and now. If you spend $100 bucks is not the issue..... it is the passion that is the issue.

Today the hobby is a disparity of very passionate and occasional modelers. Years ago there was a large "middle class"  or a frequent modeler.

As a father of an 18 year old I agree that todays generation is not into manual skills. They are more into instant gratification.

The economic cost of modeling is an entire different discussion. I was trying to describe passion, commitment, etc.

So hopefully that clears up what I was saying 

Rounds Complete!!