Odds and Ends Forum

/forums/t/141385.aspx

It's been decided none of us can be trusted to behave due to the actions of a"few"!

Well I hope the "in" crowd here has learned their lesson. They won't, they're too stubborn, but maybe the rest of us have learned something. Freedom is not a right here. It is earned, and their actions as a whole has earned the loss of our O&E forum.

Now people will stomp off mad about it. Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it. This is the third schism I've seen here, and I'm seriously considering it being my last.

All I can say is,Unfreakinbelivable,beacause of a few people we all suffer,punish the offenders,not the whole forum,what a joke.

thanks

Anthony I do agree with you, it is regrettable what has happened to the Odds & Ends forum. I participated and posted my share of what I felt was right and wrong about the goings on in the forums so I guess I share part of the blame. Losing that forum was not the outcome that I had hoped would've happened. I guess my question to you would be, if you had the power here to do what you wished wouldve been done, who are the guilty parties? Who gets banished and who stays? How much time would you have had to invest in reading every single post and determining who crossed the line?? In the end I think no mater what action would've have been taken, there would have been people disappointed with the decision.  Perhaps O&E will be back when there is an air of civility and mutual respect that returns to the forums.

Because of the recent problems on the Forums, we have closed the "Odds and Ends" section of the Forum. This means that non-modeling related threads will no longer be permitted on the FSM Forums.

Ya'll are just putting "O&E" stuff in a different place...

Ya'll probably should knock it off... 

Jester75

Anthony I do agree with you, it is regrettable what has happened to the Odds & Ends forum. I participated and posted my share of what I felt was right and wrong about the goings on in the forums so I guess I share part of the blame. Losing that forum was not the outcome that I had hoped would've happened. I guess my question to you would be, if you had the power here to do what you wished wouldve been done, who are the guilty parties? Who gets banished and who stays? How much time would you have had to invest in reading every single post and determining who crossed the line?? In the end I think no mater what action would've have been taken, there would have been people disappointed with the decision.  Perhaps O&E will be back when there is an air of civility and mutual respect that returns to the forums.

Yes you are right,I am just venting,I have no idea what it takes to run and police a forum like this,nor would I want to.The whole thing is just frustrating.I hope your right and it comes back some day.It's interesting though,I am also pretty active on Armorama,and I have never seen threads get out of hand like it did this past weekend.In fact there was a time I stepped over the line and was quickly jumped on by the moderator and was warned.So i don't know if thats the answer.

Great, way to go. To those that screwed things up this weekend (And you know how you are), thanks for taking the fun out of the forums. Some warning would have been nice. Instead of killing the Odds and Ends section maybe you should have taken care of the people that contributed to the problems. Whatever.

So this is the new "Odds & Ends"?

This means that non-modeling related threads will no longer be permitted on the FSM Forums.

With respect, I don't see how this fixes things.

The original complaint (I believe) was the silliness of O&E threads leaching into other, modeling-related threads. Then there's the recent unpleasantness, which I won't get into.

But...doesn't shutting down the "relief valve" of O&E just make that leaching into the modeling-related sections pretty much inevitable? Without really fixing anything. I mean, as we saw over the weekend, a poster can post inappropriate threads all over the friggin' place.

That and, I'm sorry, but I really enjoyed the ability to share and share in aspects of the community beyond modeling. From layoffs to lost pets to wildfires to personal triumphs. It sucks to see it go.

Why not bring back O&E, but treat it like the testing forum, where updates don't show on the main page? It could still play that relief valve role, but be less prominent on the site, and out of sight out of mind for the folks who were really bothered by the frequency with which certain threads updated.

Oh well...

DoogsATX

This means that non-modeling related threads will no longer be permitted on the FSM Forums.

 

With respect, I don't see how this fixes things.

The original complaint (I believe) was the silliness of O&E threads leaching into other, modeling-related threads. Then there's the recent unpleasantness, which I won't get into.

But...doesn't shutting down the "relief valve" of O&E just make that leaching into the modeling-related sections pretty much inevitable? Without really fixing anything. I mean, as we saw over the weekend, a poster can post inappropriate threads all over the friggin' place.

That and, I'm sorry, but I really enjoyed the ability to share and share in aspects of the community beyond modeling. From layoffs to lost pets to wildfires to personal triumphs. It sucks to see it go.

Why not bring back O&E, but treat it like the testing forum, where updates don't show on the main page? It could still play that relief valve role, but be less prominent on the site, and out of sight out of mind for the folks who were really bothered by the frequency with which certain threads updated.

Oh well...

I agree...I have many interests and hobbies other than scale modeling, and when "I hang" with those folks I don't want to just talk "shop" no matter if its my flying buddies, my golfing buddies or even my former Army General Staff buddies...

Now there is no place in here to kick back and have a discussion that is non-modeling realted w/o the spectre of being "reported" hanging like a cloud over your head...

DoogsATX

This means that non-modeling related threads will no longer be permitted on the FSM Forums.

 

With respect, I don't see how this fixes things.

The original complaint (I believe) was the silliness of O&E threads leaching into other, modeling-related threads. Then there's the recent unpleasantness, which I won't get into.

But...doesn't shutting down the "relief valve" of O&E just make that leaching into the modeling-related sections pretty much inevitable? Without really fixing anything. I mean, as we saw over the weekend, a poster can post inappropriate threads all over the friggin' place.

That and, I'm sorry, but I really enjoyed the ability to share and share in aspects of the community beyond modeling. From layoffs to lost pets to wildfires to personal triumphs. It sucks to see it go.

Why not bring back O&E, but treat it like the testing forum, where updates don't show on the main page? It could still play that relief valve role, but be less prominent on the site, and out of sight out of mind for the folks who were really bothered by the frequency with which certain threads updated.

Oh well...

great idea

Manstein's revenge

DoogsATX:

This means that non-modeling related threads will no longer be permitted on the FSM Forums.

 

With respect, I don't see how this fixes things.

The original complaint (I believe) was the silliness of O&E threads leaching into other, modeling-related threads. Then there's the recent unpleasantness, which I won't get into.

But...doesn't shutting down the "relief valve" of O&E just make that leaching into the modeling-related sections pretty much inevitable? Without really fixing anything. I mean, as we saw over the weekend, a poster can post inappropriate threads all over the friggin' place.

That and, I'm sorry, but I really enjoyed the ability to share and share in aspects of the community beyond modeling. From layoffs to lost pets to wildfires to personal triumphs. It sucks to see it go.

Why not bring back O&E, but treat it like the testing forum, where updates don't show on the main page? It could still play that relief valve role, but be less prominent on the site, and out of sight out of mind for the folks who were really bothered by the frequency with which certain threads updated.

Oh well...

 

I agree...I have many interests and hobbies other than scale modeling, and when "I hang" with those folks I don't want to just talk "shop" no matter if its my flying buddies, my golfing buddies or even my former Army General Staff buddies...

Now there is no place in here to kick back and have a discussion that is non-modeling realted w/o the spectre of being "reported" hanging like a cloud over your head...

 

So much for the Ode to my cat. Thanks again to everyone who took the time to respond.

What I would have done is remove the offending threads and posted new guidelines for O & E with zero tolerance.

Your cat, my air races. I think nuking O and E is right. I've seen over and over where it just invites trolling and fighting between members.

Yes I miss it, but it's the late night dance club of FSM and there's been way too many shootings. Cops closed it down.

Guys, it's their bat, their ball and their rules.  All one can do is to decide to play or not.

Reasoned

Guys, it's their bat, their ball and their rules.  All one can do is to decide to play or not.

BINGO!!!

Reasoned

Guys, it's their bat, their ball and their rules.  All one can do is to decide to play or not.

tigerman

So much for the Ode to my cat. Thanks again to everyone who took the time to respond.

What I would have done is remove the offending threads and posted new guidelines for O & E with zero tolerance.

I meant to get in there and respond but it's kinda hard with no section left...but man, I feel ya. Losing a pet is rough, but at least she had a great, long and happy life. We lost a dog several years ago at a doggy day care (attacked and killed by a larger dog in a staff screw up). She was just two. Don't want to go into it, but that day threw a lot of shrapnel into my wife and I's relationship that I think we're finally overcoming six years later. Obviously all pets should be immortal or give their lives saving us from certain death, but failing that, a healthy, happy life surrounded by a loving family is a pretty great thing. Still - letting them go is awful, and you have my condolences. 

And that's exactly the thing I'm talking about missing now.

Manstein's revenge

 

Reasoned:

 

Guys, it's their bat, their ball and their rules.  All one can do is to decide to play or not.

 

Yep, their stadium, ball and bat...BUT--we're the players and there 'aint no game without US...

 

True, but we will adapt.  We always do.

 Sometimes things need to go bad (or worse) before they get better. Sometimes... Let's just hope this is one of them.

Echo139er

Manstein's revenge:

 

Reasoned:

 

Guys, it's their bat, their ball and their rules.  All one can do is to decide to play or not.

 

Yep, their stadium, ball and bat...BUT--we're the players and there 'aint no game without US...

 

 

True, but we will adapt.  We always do.

 Sometimes things need to go bad (or worse) before they get better. Sometimes... Let's just hope this is one of them.

I'm glad it's gone. I've asked FSM several times over the years to ditch it. Troll magnet, fight club, bar without a bouncer on Saturday nights, pick your metaphor.

I'm a member on other, smaller forums where fighting is UNHEARD OF.

And they have OE places.

With respect to everyone, I tried to create new guidelines for off-topic conversations, which as I have said repeatedly in the past, I thought were just fine, but that quickly went off the rails through the actions of several members. I like learning more about and relating to my fellow modelers about other things. It is an unfortunate outcome and not one that was chosen lightly.

I appreciate all of the concerns and comments. Please feel free to contact me directly if you'd like to discuss this in more detail. You can hit start a conversation, email me directly askinner@finescale.com, or call 262-796-8776 x299.

Regards, Aaron

Manstein's revenge

 

Reasoned:

 

Guys, it's their bat, their ball and their rules.  All one can do is to decide to play or not.

 

Yep, their stadium, ball and bat...BUT--we're the players and there 'aint no game without US...

 

Part of the problem is, a lot of us were playing the wrong game or rather no game at all. There were a bunch of people hanging out on the 19th Green and not enough people working on their short game...

I think for the betterment of the forum, be it long term or short term, they can afford to trade a few players for others who are more willing to cooperate and not split the locker room with petty arguments. 

RIP Odds and Ends forum, you may be gone but you will not forgotten.

Aaron Skinner

With respect to everyone, I tried to create new guidelines for off-topic conversations, which as I have said repeatedly in the past, I thought were just fine, but that quickly went off the rails through the actions of several members. I like learning more about and relating to my fellow modelers about other things. It is an unfortunate outcome and not one that was chosen lightly.

I appreciate all of the concerns and comments. Please feel free to contact me directly if you'd like to discuss this in more detail. You can hit start a conversation, email me directly askinner@finescale.com, or call 262-796-8776 x299.

Regards, Aaron

Aaron, even though your closure of the O&E today more than likely wiped out 2/3rds of my posts, I applaud it. This is not the first time, and quite likely won't be the last time, that O&E has been closed. People just keep on repeating history! I just hope we can earn your trust again, so that it can be re-instated at some point in the near future.

And you're a brave man putting your full email and telephone number on the internet! Lucky for you your local isn't 229!

As someone pointed out earlier, this is their bat, and their ball, and their ball park, and while they might not have a team without "us" as players, I think they could probably recruit some more quite easily from the back benchers.

Bill
Who's hitting the showers...

DoogsATX

 

tigerman:

 

So much for the Ode to my cat. Thanks again to everyone who took the time to respond.

What I would have done is remove the offending threads and posted new guidelines for O & E with zero tolerance.

 

 

I meant to get in there and respond but it's kinda hard with no section left...but man, I feel ya. Losing a pet is rough, but at least she had a great, long and happy life. We lost a dog several years ago at a doggy day care (attacked and killed by a larger dog in a staff screw up). She was just two. Don't want to go into it, but that day threw a lot of shrapnel into my wife and I's relationship that I think we're finally overcoming six years later. Obviously all pets should be immortal or give their lives saving us from certain death, but failing that, a healthy, happy life surrounded by a loving family is a pretty great thing. Still - letting them go is awful, and you have my condolences. 

And that's exactly the thing I'm talking about missing now.

Thanks Doogs. I'm very sorry to hear about your dog. That must have been pretty traumatic. 

I still have two others, 16 and 8 years old. I think the 16 year-old will become totally spoiled. Katie used to pick on her all the time. She will  get much more attention now, with Katie's passing. 

WOW! I miss four days of being on the forum, log on today and this post is here talking about some members that messed things up for all of us, and the "Odds and Ends" forum section being deleted.

I must have missed A LOT in those four days.

jetmodeler

WOW! I miss four days of being on the forum, log on today and this post is here talking about some members that messed things up for all of us, and the "Odds and Ends" forum section being deleted.

I must have missed A LOT in those four days.

yes and no...