LHS Not Helping Themselves

Someone mentioned previously, on another post, about how the profit margin for paint is very low. However, what good is building a kit unless you can find the proper paints? What the LHS may not understand is, I'd go to buy paints and maybe pick up a random kit or other supplies as well. I wish they made it easier, but I can see why online places, like sprue brothers or squadron, may be driving them out.

Once upon a time, paint selection was limited and modelers needed to mix various colors to get the shade or hue they needed. Tamiya still provides mixing ratios albeit specifically for their own line of paints in their instructions.

Maybe paint mixing is a lost art, but I wouldn't let the lack of a certain color stop me from building a kit. I'd use trial and error and mix up a close approximation.

That's my point - i do actually buy just as many random kits when i'm paint shopping.  If not them, then it's glue, tweezers, no. 11 blades, PE parts, styrene etc etc.

I guess the issue for me is, paint is what gets me in there and gets me spending money on other things.  Without paint, i really have no connection there anymore.  It's now better for me to do fewer trips to a shop that is further away, that i know constantly stocks what i want and will ultimately get my money for it.

I understand competing with online stores is hard, but down here in Australia, i haven't found online stores to be too much cheaper.  Quite often, when you factor in the shipping costs, you're only saving $10-$20 on most higher priced kits (ie, above $60 instore). 

Lower priced kits i just buy from LHS - makes me feel good keeping money here.

Rob Gronovius

Once upon a time, paint selection was limited and modelers needed to mix various colors to get the shade or hue they needed. Tamiya still provides mixing ratios albeit specifically for their own line of paints in their instructions.

Maybe paint mixing is a lost art, but I wouldn't let the lack of a certain color stop me from building a kit. I'd use trial and error and mix up a close approximation.

I agree Rob.  And i'm the first to say my generation of modellers really are spoilt.

But for me, it's more the brand issue.  I like Gunze because i find it easy to A/B and easy to brush paint - which for me is a necessity to touch up issues/problems with my a/b coat.

Tamiya acrylic is a bear to brush paint (if at all) and i don't want to start A/B with enamels, just to be sure i can touch up here and there with a paint brush.

This is another reason why it is becoming increasingly unappealing to do business at a brick and mortar shop.  Do yourself a favor and move all of your purchases online.  I don't get why some folks feel obligated to continue to buy at local shops as though they were a charity case that we should prop up. 

If we were talking about food, clothes, appliances or cars we wouldn't be having this discussion.  You'd go to the place with the best selection and lowest price---period... 

I don't know the situation specifically in Australia, but here in the states distributors often have exclusive territories for some products and it might be the case the the LHS owner doesn't have any choice in who they deal with.  You might want to ask the owner if that is the case. 

I can also see a scenario where the distributor might not be excited about supplying product to a shop that does relatively low volume.

Mark

I often go to the (not so local ) LHS for a color or two, only to leave with a few kits, some AM stuff and a magazine or two.  If they quit carrying the paint I would not go there in the first place.

Not sure why your LHS is cutting back on paint but I will say there are a gazillion varieties of MM enamel (my paint of choice) and I'm sure there is no way they sell many of the specific colors.  That's why when I check my LHS for a specific paint color and it's not in stock she will just special order it for me and it will be in within a week (not a whole lot dif from online) and no S&H to boot! 

well Chris, I do agree with your frustration

but, we do need to be careful what we wish for

hobby shops have an agreement with a distributor,,,,if you are able to convince your shop to change distributors in able to allow you to get just exactly the paint line you want,,,,,,two other effects can happen

something else they stock that you like might not be available from the new distributor,,,,,,,,and

the second possible effect,,,,,,,,if he can or will change for YOU, and paint ranges,,,,,,,,maybe some other customer like me will come along someday and get him to change distributors again, so that he can get just exactly the LIfeColor paints "new guy" wants,,,,,and not able to get any Gunze at all

there are also only a finite number of model distributors in any given country,,,,the physical shops are not the only money centers that have been slowly closing or being bought out by competitors

if your shop won't order what you need for your models,,,,,you will have no choice but to go elsewhere,,,,,,,that does seem to be the main point the shops "don't get" about this hobby,,,,,,I for one am NOT going to change to some substitute paint range based on what they choose to carry,,,,,I WILL however, go to where ever I have to, to get the paints I do want

I see you are in Australia,,,,,you have some pretty good online shops based out of there, they have decent shipping rates even when sending to me in the States,,,domestic shipping should be pretty good, I would think

hope you find a solution

Rex

With my nearest best hobby shop at least a two-gallon drive away, I don't shop there much unless I'm in the area. I try to stash up on the most common paints I use, so I don't run out and have to make an emergency trip. I too feel it's so much easier to order online.

True, I owe my shop nothing and really could care less of holding the kit in my hands before purchasing. I refuse to pay retail if I know I can save 40-50% off as well. Some of the kits at the shop probably have an inch of dust on them and they never run any sales.

Rob Gronovius

Once upon a time, paint selection was limited and modelers needed to mix various colors to get the shade or hue they needed. Tamiya still provides mixing ratios albeit specifically for their own line of paints in their instructions.

Maybe paint mixing is a lost art, but I wouldn't let the lack of a certain color stop me from building a kit. I'd use trial and error and mix up a close approximation.

Amen!  Maybe I am comfortable with mixing paint because I am from the "once upon a time" era.  I remember mixing talcum powder with model paint because there were no flat colors available.  I think mixing is a skill modelers should strive to aquire. In addition to being useful for when the correct color is just not available, it is great for weathering.

I frequently dust the tops of aircraft with a whitened mix of the top colors to represent chalking of older aircraft left in the sun.  Modern aircraft have chalking-resistant paint, but WW2 and Korean vintage aircraft sure chalked in a hurry.

to Manny.

I usually only go into the LHS for paint and do end up sometime coming out with extras. But it seems like my LHS is always out of the one color I need. Also the staff can NEVER answer any questions that I have. They seem to only want to deal in coins. Now I can find absolutly anything I need online (except for 1/48 Fancy Girls decals for an F-105!) and usually for a drastically lower price. This is the age of online shopping and isn't an online store just another LHS just in a different L? I work to hard for my money just to spend extra so someone else can benefit. Its the same argument that people have with WalMart. I'll always look there first!

TroyH

Here's a post I dug up that talks about mixing paints old school style. It used to be the norm before companies started making the one and only shade for that piece of equipment.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1327248258/Floquil+Railroad+colors+FS+equivalents-

The comments are interesting and remind me of other posts lamenting the closing of another LHS. All too many people feel the local retailer is obligated to sell them things at rock bottom prices or that you'll only buy cheap items like paint but never anything expensive and then whine when the store is gone. I wonder how many bottles of paint it takes to cover the cost of running the store for the day not to mention having enough left over to put a meal on the table when the owner finally gets home after 8 at night. If you want a local store then you have to be prepared to pay for it. The inventory that sometimes seems thin gets that way because it costs money that gets paid out long before someone stops in and decides to buy the kit they want online to save some money. I certainly do shop on the internet but I also try to support my local guy because I love having him there and don't resent his earning a profit. It's a tough business.

jeffpez

The comments are interesting and remind me of other posts lamenting the closing of another LHS. All too many people feel the local retailer is obligated to sell them things at rock bottom prices or that you'll only buy cheap items like paint but never anything expensive and then whine when the store is gone. I wonder how many bottles of paint it takes to cover the cost of running the store for the day not to mention having enough left over to put a meal on the table when the owner finally gets home after 8 at night. If you want a local store then you have to be prepared to pay for it. The inventory that sometimes seems thin gets that way because it costs money that gets paid out long before someone stops in and decides to buy the kit they want online to save some money. I certainly do shop on the internet but I also try to support my local guy because I love having him there and don't resent his earning a profit. It's a tough business.

Valid points. If there wasn't so many online retailers with a gazilion products that my shop will never, ever stock, then yes, I might well be supporting them. However, as times are tough out there, we are all looking at saving a buck any way we can.

I buy online and at my LHS. I'm comfortable mixing my paint - to some degree. But it's very frustrating when you walk into the LHS and they're out of the essentials. Black, for example. Or white. Or olive drab. 

Maybe the LHS owner would be better off only selling online. They wouldn't have any overhead and would have a much bigger market and still be able to feed there family. They could also allow for local pickup if you live nearby saving shipping on top of overhead costs. Then they would still be your LHS. Otherwise they would never be able to compete with online shops.

TroyH

Maybe the LHS owner would be better off only selling online. They wouldn't have any overhead and would have a much bigger market and still be able to feed there family. They could also allow for local pickup if you live nearby saving shipping on top of overhead costs. Then they would still be your LHS. Otherwise they would never be able to compete with online shops.

Or they could do a hybrid with a smallish storefront and online operation. Pretty sure that's how Great Models operated...

If I ever open a hobby shop (not now...one day who knows...) it'd be primarily online but with some sort of local retail availability as well. Even if it's just local pickup.

that is how Smyrna Toy and Hobby operates

he is my local hobby shop for in person sales, will do special orders for customers

and has an online store for his entire plastic model physical inventory

the only glitch with his system is that sometimes, he finds out that something got sold online in the ten minutes spent wondering around the store

that has only happened once to me, though,,,,,,,,,"sorry, Rex, but, that just got sold to ___________, if you would have told me right away when you got here, you could have it now,,,,,,,I can order you another one, though",,,,,,,,,which I then did, and picked up after the next Thursday delivery came in

It is also my understanding that if the buyer does a local pick up of an online order the retailer must then charge sales tax, just as he must if the buyer is in the state of retailer.  Is this so, do we have anyone living in MO, would Spruebros charge them tax?

Reasoned

It is also my understanding that if the buyer does a local pick up of an online order the retailer must then charge sales tax, just as he must if the buyer is in the state of retailer.  Is this so, do we have anyone living in MO, would Spruebros charge them tax?

Don't know about SB and MO, but I live in Texas, and Squadron charges me sales tax. 

That's dependent on the tax laws in your state. I only get charged for items bought online from in state businesses. For example, I don't get charged for Squadron, GM, SB, etc. but if the wife buys from Amazon down the road, she pays sale tax.

Rob Gronovius

That's dependent on the tax laws in your state. I only get charged for items bought online from in state businesses. For example, I don't get charged for Squadron, GM, SB, etc. but if the wife buys from Amazon down the road, she pays sale tax.

Most online stores only charge sales tax if the business has a physical "presence" in your state. This could be a B&M, warehouse, distribution center, offices, etc.  If they dont they may be stuck with paying it for you.

If most of us bought an item from Best Buy online we would be charged our state sales tax because there is a Best Buy store in almost every state(?) Even if the online shipment came from another state.

I dont know the current status but at one tine CA was considering requiring ALL online/mailorder businesses in CA to collect CA sales tax on ALL sales. Amazon and a few others have threatened to pull out of CA if this happens.

Technically you are supposed to send the sales tax to the state you bought the item from. I'll become an instant pauper if they ever make a law like this retroactive!

 After the elections you can bet there will be another attempt to require all online businesses to collect sales tax for the state you live in. Naturally the states will not pay the businesses to collect the tax for them

Yeah, the days of no sales tax over the internet are coming to a close.

When I lived in SC I visited the same HS sometimes twice a week to see if anything new or interesting arrived. I remember asking the guy there if they carried Mr. Surfacer 500. He looked at me as if I had a third eye growing out of my forehead! I explained to him the product and the different grades they come in. He took down my name, cell and house phone and said he was going to check and get back to me asap. That was 3 years ago. I even asked him what's going on with my request and said it was being handled... Same thing with the paint situation. The paint racks would be running extremely low for months at a time with repeated requests for replenishment, but again, months went by.

When I shopped at Orange Blossom Hobbies in Miami from the 70's to the 90's those guys would go out of their way to help you and order stuff for you. And if you were a regular customer, many times they gave you a break on the price. I had the 1/96 Constitution that I bought at a garage sale for $5 but it was missing the instructions. One of the plastic guys, Gary Cruz was nice enough to photocopy the huge instruction sheet for me, free of charge. Those days are gone. 

cml,

I too share your pain.  As I'm only just getting back to plastic modelling I don't know too much about the distribution system here in Oz. 

I do have a little knowledge about the RC guys though,

and unless they're offering dodgy products (which means they'll rip off those new to the hobby and will eventually fold,)

or possibly just being dodgy (which means they'll rip off those new to the hobby and will eventually fold,)

they are truly held to ransom by the importers who happily charge extreme prices and demand large orders.  Of course the good shops will know what their customer base wants, or can recommend what is appropriate for those with less knowledge.  These shops should keep an eye on stock levels.

I have only found two shops here in Brisvegas that (should) have a good range, but I have found the one on the Southside is poorly stocked and has no customer service.  The one on the Northside seems to have more stock (especially paint, glues, tools etc) and seems to have friendlier staff (steer clear of the RC department though as only one of those fellows really has a clue.)

These shops both stock a lot of the same equipment, I'm looking to buy an airbrush but all that seems to be on display is the Paasche VL and it'll sting you at least 200, and at least another 200+ for a no name hobby aircompressor.

Who is to blame?  I think the distributors are for the price gouging, but the shops have to cop a fair bit  too, especially with service.  There are enough people with a real passion and knowledge about this hobby so why do they employ those with no passion and no knowledge, and who push for the single sale rather than the customer care that'll bring the customer back for more and more?  This can be done as evidenced by the shop in Melbourne I visited regularly for the few months I was there last year - yes it was done on a shoe string budget, but it was a great little shop with all the help you could ask for, and if they didn't know, they'd point you in the right direction.

Sorry for the rant, and the poor grammar, but it's just sad that the Australian modeler (and I sure many others too) gets shafted because we're a minority and the big boys with their monopolistic import / distribution schemes, and the retailers who are forced to lloked only at the bottom line really just hurt everyone.

That being said, this seems to be a great resource and I'd like to to say Hi to all.

Tom

I asked the owner of the LHS recently a similar question.  The response I got was for him to order in paints he has to satisfy minimum quantities in orders.

Afterwards they are often left with colours that just sit on the shelf, 1 guy asks for a special orange for a kit he's building, then the store is ordering many more paints just to sell him his $3 bottle.  Now expand that to every time that someone needs "that colour", now he's ordering more then he's selling.

To me the distributors are hurting the industry more then the LHS.

Rob Gronovius

Once upon a time, paint selection was limited and modelers needed to mix various colors to get the shade or hue they needed. Tamiya still provides mixing ratios albeit specifically for their own line of paints in their instructions.

Maybe paint mixing is a lost art, but I wouldn't let the lack of a certain color stop me from building a kit. I'd use trial and error and mix up a close approximation.