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Totally Confused about Vietnam War

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  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 2:07 PM

Ah Hans, one can always model figures. Those original SF guys really give some unconventional subjects in  terms of dress and equipment. Everything from native dress to WWII jungle camo, to modified issue stuff and foreign made clothing and weapons.

And some very valid points on the reporting for todays wars. I do have a feeling there were more than a few current ones influenced by those and the style of reporting from that war. I pretty much stopped watching the news reports out of there due to that style.

As for reading material. I have read more good books on this subject than I can easily recount. Novels and non fiction, the stuff is abundant. The 13th Valley, A Reckoning for Kings, Flight of the Intruder and Rolling Thunder  are some of the fiction works that I think are outstanding. In non fiction Bat 21, We Were Soldiers Once... and Young, The Raid, Thud Ridge, Phantom Soldiers (both volumes) and One Day in a Long War are certainly worth one's time to read.

All this talk on Vietnam stuff certainly has me inspired as well, and I am planning on running a Vietnam GB, but after I wrap up my Korean War one next July. I will start floating the interest balloons late next year.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 6:08 PM

The Things They Carried is outstanding.

  • Member since
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  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 6:30 PM

bondoman

The Things They Carried is outstanding.

Yup that is a good one...

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
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  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 6:38 PM

Hans von Hammer

Anyway, that's some of my story..  After I retired in '06, I still watched the news, and it astounded me that the reporting from Iraq was almost exactly the same as during Vietnam.. The mainstream-press just couldn't get their heads wrapped around that, after we destroyed an insurgent attack, killing damn-near all of 'em, they'd report that "one American Soldier was killed and more three wounded" or something like that, right?

But here's what'd p*ss me off.. They almost ALWAYS started the piece with, "A deadly day in Iraq.."... No mention of the fact that we took out 10-20 of the bad guys, just that we took some casualties... They made it sound like we lost every engagement if somebody got it, and damned if I didn't think it was 1966 or 1971 again...  (Dad was there, in-country during those years (fighting in his third war),  and mom & me ate dinner in front of the TV for a year, lol.. ) Militarily-speaking, our casualties 99% of the time were not "Heavy", "Moderate", and weren't "Light".. Militarily, they were insignificant, and remained that way... (Not to those close to the person who was KIA / WIA, but y'all know I mean..)  

Hans

You bring up some good points, and again, in many ways this really does highlight some of the similarities between Iraq/Afghanistan and Vietnam.

I suspect that our experiences in Iraq were vastly different. I was there in '05 when the insurgency in Anbar was really amping up. We got hammered pretty good while I was there. Sure, we killed a lot more than we had killed, but the thing is it was tough to tell how many of those we killed were legit bad guys and how many were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

By the time I got there, the insurgents, like the VC and NVA, had learned they could not stand toe to toe with us or they'd get slaughtered. So they didn't (minus one or two noteable occassions). They didn't engage us directly, so when we lost one or two or six or eight guys, odds are we were not killing any of the bad guys because they were long gone. That was the infuriating part of it. We were not fighting people, we were fighting IEDs and SVBIEDs and IDF. And mostly it was due to the same problem that we faced in Vietnam - we didn't want to go through the political pain to commit the totality of military forces needed to do the job...

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Hayward Calif.
Posted by Woodrow Call on Tuesday, July 17, 2012 3:27 PM

Read anything you can about the 1st. Cavalry

  • Member since
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  • From: Milford, Ohio
Posted by Old Ordie on Tuesday, July 17, 2012 4:40 PM

Chrisk-k

... I've only recently got interested in the Vietnam War.  I'm reading a book (Days of Valor) about what happened in '67-'68 (before the Tet Offensive) and I am totally confused! ...

Chris,

Don't feel bad about it ... I was totally confused about it when I was there.  Afterward, it took me 20 years of reading and watching generalized documentaries, such as The 10,000 Day War, before I had even half a handle on what had happened - decades long, non-conventional wars are kind of hard to follow by nature, I guess.

I've been lurking this thread, reading with interest.  All I know well, regarding particulars, is what I did and saw.  More bomb tonnage was dropped in SEA by U.S. forces than was dropped by all sides in WWII, combined.  And yet, we eventually pulled out, mission unaccomplished  ...  nothing conventional about it, that's for sure.  I was a human bomb-loading machine in '70-'71, sixteen hours a day, seven days a week, week-in and week-out, month-in, month-out.  I once asked one of our pilots what we were bombing (our missions were 90% 'Interdiction' of the Ho Chi Minh Trail in Laos, and that's all we non-aircrew knew).  He looked around, as if to be certain no one else could hear, leaned into my ear, and said, in a whisper, "Trees."  And that about sums it up. 

Lam Son 719/Dewey Canyon II, known in the media at the time as 'The Laotian Incursion', was the only time my air wing (CVW-11) was involved in anythying like a conventional, stand-up fight of any kind during that whole cruise (one battle, really - it depended which side of the border between South Vietnam and Laos you were fighting on as to which 'battle' you were in - I got my battle star for Lam Son 719, which was the Laotian part).  Mostly, though, it was 'where are they", and "where'd they go" kind of stuff, on a large scale.  The typical Vietnamese was NOT on our side.

As for you Afgfanistan/Iraq vets (thank you for your service, BTW), regarding comparisons with Vietnam, all wars are different, one-from-another, of course, but I knew getting in was going to be a hell of a lot easier than getting out, and that none of the locals were really going to be your friend, and I told my wife so at the time.  Understand that the 'Nam vets around you generally 'get it'.  'Nuff said.

I have to say that, politics and ideology aside, I have nothing but respect for the NVA, NVPAF, etc.  They were tough, they were disciplined, they were committed, and they prevailed against two first-world nations (and friends - personal thanks to the Ozzies and the ROKs) in a contest of arms.  Giap should be ranked among the top generals of the 20th Century, if for no other reason than he knew what he had to do to win against overwhelming military force, and he did it.

One last anecdote - We went for five days r 'n r in Hong Kong, about halfway through the deployment.  First thing I saw when I stepped off the launch onto dry land was an English language newspaper in a stand on the dock.  The headline read, "U.S. Denies Laos Bombing" (this was before Lam Son, which made major news around the world).  At the time, I felt like I was in the Twilight Zone.  Now, remembering, it just makes me smile ...

Mark (aka Old Ordie)

Edit - I'll be picking up a copy of Bury Us Upside Down: The Misty Pilots and the Secret Battle for the Ho Chi Mihn Trail, and reading it with great interest ... so, thanks for that. - end Edit

Flight deck:  Hasegawa 1:48 P-40E; Tamiya 1:48 A6M2 N Type 2 ('Rufe')

Elevators:  Airfix 1:72 Grumman Duck; AM 1:72 F-4J

  • Member since
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  • From: Right Side of a Left State
Posted by Shellback on Tuesday, July 17, 2012 5:24 PM

Hey Mark , i was served on the cruiser USS Oklahoma City . We did NGFS missions up and down the coast of VN 1964 thru 1966 .....30 month SEA deployment . Course it wasnt tuff ,being on a ship and all . We even went up the river to Saigon in 64 ............before the Tonkin gulf incident . Anyway my comment is about you thanking the Ozzies . We worked with a few Ozzie spotters on our NGFS missions . That took a while to get used to their accent , especially over a radio with the static . Interesting targets we fired at . On more than one mission we found out that our targets were water buffalo ! The Viet Cong used them for transporting supplies . We had a target count on the 6 inch turret with the silhouette of them critteres on it ! I forget how many we were up to before the captain said they had to be painted out before we headed to Hong Kong .Strange war we participated in .

Take care .

  • Member since
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  • From: Milford, Ohio
Posted by Old Ordie on Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:42 PM

Shellback

... Strange war we participated in ...

Sure was.

About the Ozzies, seems like there were small groups of 'em tucked in just about everywhere in 'Nam.  We had an Ozzie can with us on Yankee, December, '70 through January, '71 or so, along with our regulars.  We spent New Years' Eve, '70, in Subic with them.  Some of my better liberty stories concern drinking with Ozzies, LOL ...  I was friends for a good number of years with a RAN helicopter pilot who was part of the Royal Australian Navy Helicopter Flight Vietnam (RANHFV).  They were integrated into the US Army 135th Assault Helicopter Company in-country, flying Hueys side-by-side with our boys in combat.  When he spoke of his American comrades of those days, he always did so lovingly ... especially those who didn't make it.

You take care, too, bro.

Flight deck:  Hasegawa 1:48 P-40E; Tamiya 1:48 A6M2 N Type 2 ('Rufe')

Elevators:  Airfix 1:72 Grumman Duck; AM 1:72 F-4J

  • Member since
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  • From: Right Side of a Left State
Posted by Shellback on Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:07 PM

We spent many a week with the carriers up at "Yankee"  . Besides NGFS we provided fleet air defense with out Talos missiles . Good ole Subic bay . Was the main street paved when you were there ? It was either mud or dust back in the 60's . I tried to drink beer for beer with some old salt Ozzie merchant marines in Singapore .......man was i stupid for attempting that !

Good times , bad times , but it was our times .

Thanks

  • Member since
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  • From: Milford, Ohio
Posted by Old Ordie on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:30 PM
Shellback,
 
An Ozzie drank me and three of my mates under the table at the Acey-Deucy in Subic one night, LOL!
I wouldn't call the streets in Olongapo paved, exactly, maybe something like paved, in places, with potholes you could lose a sedan in, and had to cross over on planks if you were walking. Generally, though, I remember it as a pretty dusty/muddy place.   The closer you got to the gate, the better the streets and walks got, IIRC.   Ever toss coins in *** River? LOL!
 
Ord

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  • From: Kingsport, TN.
Posted by 01JeepXJ on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:45 PM

Old Ordie,Shellback-couldn't agree more! Dong Ba Thin 7-69/8-70. Read my bio. The locals didn't like us but wanted what we had. They worked on our compound by day, sent us mortar/rockets by night.

The Aussies were GREAT! STILL are. It wasn't even their fight.

The ROK's kicked some serious a** for us in our area. Much used/under appreciated.

I was there when our flight crew's were told to take a week's worth of stuff & their pillows,strip all U.S. insignia from their flight suits, paint over any designation on their aircraft. Cambodia.

As was said, good times,bad times but it was OUR times.

Be safe, Bro's.

Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of time and only annoys the pig.

  • Member since
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  • From: Milford, Ohio
Posted by Old Ordie on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:59 PM

01JeepXJ

... As was said, good times,bad times but it was OUR times...

Yes

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  • Member since
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  • From: Right Side of a Left State
Posted by Shellback on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 4:16 PM

Good stories guys . You realize this is actually real history we are talking about . Our history of a war that our nation was ashamed of ! I'm not ashamed of it ! Ok , ok, i digress .

Subic bay and the *** river ........one thing aout that *** river you always knew where you were ....the smell was unforgettable ! I never tossed coins in it ............maybe put some other stuff in it ? There were so many binjo ditches around that place i dont know how i managed not to fall into more than the one that i found with my clean liberty whites uniform one night ! I had to throw it away ......yuck ! OMG what a *** hole that place was ! OMG i had some good times there !

Take care Bros . !

  • Member since
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  • From: Democratic Peoples Republic of Illinois
Posted by Hercmech on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 4:26 PM

You guys are cracking me up...I have heard my Dad tell the same stories for years about his time on the Saratoga and his port calls.  Keep it up...brings back lots of warm memories.


13151015

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  • From: Denver
Posted by tankboy51 on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 5:17 PM

Gee whiz, I sure wish I could join in in all the frivolity about the VietNam  war.  However, in 1970, my cousin was killed over there.   He was 19 years old.  He was in the 101st , and was killed  within his first two weeks over there.  I, myself, was on the verge of being drafted.  At that point my whole family thought that we had given that worthless cause all it needed.  I stayed out by keeping by student deferment up.

BTW the military lied for 2 months about how he was murdered, yes, he was shot in his sleep on an overnight patrol, when someone fell asleep on watch.  They were all killed.  It was only when other men caught the VC who killed them that they got the story.  They had their weapons on them.

The whole conflict was one mess, we shouldn't have been there.

I'm going to stop now, the conflict still hurts to talk about in the abstraction.

Eddie was a neat guy and he got me really really interested in modeling.

Doug

  • Member since
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  • From: Denver
Posted by tankboy51 on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 5:27 PM

One more thing, I do not hate the VC or any of the Vietnamese people, they were fighting foreign control of their nation.  It needed to be unified.  They were pawns to the politicians on both sides.

That's all  I have to say about that.

Doug

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • From: Milford, Ohio
Posted by Old Ordie on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:10 PM

Doug,

I am truly sorry for your loss.  I hope you and your family find peace about it.

Mark

Flight deck:  Hasegawa 1:48 P-40E; Tamiya 1:48 A6M2 N Type 2 ('Rufe')

Elevators:  Airfix 1:72 Grumman Duck; AM 1:72 F-4J

  • Member since
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  • From: Right Side of a Left State
Posted by Shellback on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:38 PM

Frivolity ? Yes , people die in wars . You lost your brother and thats sad . But to call the exchange of stories between vietnam vets "frevolity" is done with little understanding of the comradery that is felt amongst us vets . Understand that we the vets are not the ones you should put derogatory labels on ! Understand that it was those leaders in Washington D.C. that got us involved and then ran the whole mess from D.C. . We vets joined or were drafted . We did our duty . We have stories to share . It helps us vets to know that there are others who share our experiences . Out of respect for your brother i do feel humbled for your loss .

Carl

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  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:09 PM

And among today's vets as well. At work a couple weeks ago I was babysitting a bad guy at the hospital. One of the ER personnel and I vaguely recognized one another and started talking. Turns out that we had served together some 15 years before before he moved on to another unit. We spoke of our overseas times after and people we knew. As soon as the shared connection was made, I found an old brother right there.

Nothing frivlous at all. Just a bond that is hard to explain.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Denver
Posted by tankboy51 on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:22 PM

He was my cousin, not my brother.   I believe that this forum is for modeling discussions.  As a non vet myself, at that point in the discussion, anyone else commenting is pretty much out of it.  If you vets want to share stories fine, take it to another forum. This is not the place and it is well off the topic

I appreciate your service in any case.  My family has had many members who served in various branches though out our nations history.  My brother was a Capt. in the Air Force at the end of the conflict.   Where did I put a derogatory label on anyone?  If I implied any negative comments it was to the leaders who got us into this and kept us there.

I guess that not all I had to say about it.

Doug

  • Member since
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  • From: Democratic Peoples Republic of Illinois
Posted by Hercmech on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:43 PM

Dadgum Doug...pretty harsh there... Most of us talk about military subjects all the time relating to builds.

I for one don't talk about my 20+ years of military service much, but hearing what these guys have to say is not only history, but lends credibility to questions they may answer in relation to models.

Just imagine if we had Heinz Barr or Eric Hartman on here saying..."yeah my aircraft had purple dodadds on it, back during the 1942 campaign"  I doubt one person would say booo to that.

And it was not off topic at all as the OP asked for some history about Vietnam...not how to build a model about it.


13151015

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  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:46 PM

tankboy51

 If you vets want to share stories fine, take it to another forum. This is not the place and it is well off the topic

No it is not out of place, nor is it entirely off topic. True, this is a modeling forum, a large portion of which is military in focus. Sometimes, it is important to remember the people behind those inanimate objects that we build and the efforts and sacrifices they make. This topic started off with a question about the nature of the war in Vietnam. These stories that vets of that war are sharing give a flavor to the nature of that conflict.

As others have said, I am sorry for your families loss and I honor your cousins sacrifice. But no one in this conversation is making the war in Vietnam seem frivolous.

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:56 PM

And this thread can easily be brought back to a modeling theme. The Vietnam War is a fantastic area to model covering the gamut of subjects from WWII retreads such as the C-47 and B-26 to the latest Atomic/Space age technology such as USS Enterprise or the SR-71. But all there to support the oldest weapon of all, the guy on the ground. All available in various modeling subjects representing both military sides.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Right Side of a Left State
Posted by Shellback on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:19 PM

He served , he was my brother . This is a model building forum .....true . But i would hope that this hobby would bring us together to discuss  more than just how to glue and paint plastic.

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  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:38 PM

I suspect that our experiences in Iraq were vastly different. I was there in '05 when the insurgency in Anbar was really amping up.

Yupper, they were.. I was there at the beginning, another "Desert Storm"-type fight, with force-on-force, set-piece battles... There were some guerilla-types involved, rather than a full-blown insurgency, it was more a re-enforcing of regulars by militia-types, with the Fedayeen Saddam the most heavily involved.. They didn't give us much trouble in the "tooth", but raised hell with the "tail", (where I was)...  Still, we managed to keep the bassiges off us and roll 'em up for the most part, although they gave us a real headache and we had to stop and really root 'em out for a couple weeks... Lost a few folks during that time, but we gave more than we got, for damn-sure.. Until they turnd sewer-rat and holed up in the villages and especially up in the cities like Tikrit after we took Baghdad...

By the time I left, it seemed we'd pretty much secured the AO, although there was definate insurgency brewing up fast by the end of May up north in the Sunni Triangle..  I got hit in May and sent  to Germany before the entire country blew up...  I didn't deploy again, and was medically retired in '06 after 29 and a half years..

But I was getting concerened with the "Firebase mentality" that was getting all too prevailent with FOBs popping up everywhere...

  • Member since
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  • From: Kingsport, TN.
Posted by 01JeepXJ on Thursday, July 19, 2012 5:29 AM

Here's some modeling input-I think all of us have Poloraid or 35mm pics of aircraft/vehicles we saw in all our deployments.

I am sorry for ANY loss of life in any conflict BUT wars aren't fought by elderly politicians. It's always the youth that are lost. Most vets became vets ot the age of 18 or so. We didn't become vets at retirement age.

I lost 2 close friends/highschool classmates  in RVN doing their part to win the hearts & minds. Their names are on the wall.

My BFF was in the 101st. Wounded 3 times, since has had 3 knee replacements  due to THAT action! We do vent to each other time to time. I guess it's just a "brother" thing.

As for the Iraq/Afghanistan returnees-I have seen more & strange wounds/disabilities from these vets than from us RVN vets. IED's I guess. I work with some of these fine young men. They're like us old guys-did what they had to do,walk tall.

Sorry if my rant took up so much space.

Be safe my brothers

Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of time and only annoys the pig.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, July 19, 2012 3:18 PM

Shellback

He served , he was my brother . This is a model building forum .....true . But i would hope that this hobby would bring us together to discuss  more than just how to glue and paint plastic.

Your service brings us first hand knowledge on how to model some particular items: yours from time at sea on a carrier at a particular place and a particular time in history; Redleg, Heavy Arty and Hans on  many years in Field Artillery; Rob for a career in Armor, the late Berny for his superb knowledge of the F-4 Phantom, Tarn Ship for more sea borne air wing experience; Bish for a UK military career perspective across the globe in the service of the Queen (sounds cool doesn't it?); BBIII, GregBear, and Dattilio for the Marine Corps knowledge... and many others than I can list easily off the top of my head here. That firsthand knowledge makes for better and more accurate historical models for those here who care to listen and use that knowledge... and also some great stories gained in the acquisition of that knowledge. It was not learned by osmosis....Toast Keep up the fire boys Wink 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    March 2010
  • From: Democratic Peoples Republic of Illinois
Posted by Hercmech on Thursday, July 19, 2012 4:16 PM

You said that much better I did.


13151015

  • Member since
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  • From: Milford, Ohio
Posted by Old Ordie on Thursday, July 19, 2012 4:30 PM

I like modelling because it allows me to connect with the men and women who have made history, for better or worse.  People make history, not machines, but modelling their machines brings me a tiny bit closer to them.  It's the history ...

In June, 1971, I took my one-and-only cat shot, in a C-2, off the Kitty Hawk on Yankee Station.  I was the better part of one line period from completeing the entire cruise, but my Exchange privileges were set to expire in a week, so they had to send me away.  I spent three of what rank among the truly best days of my life in the P.I., at Clark AFB (which was a beautiful place), off the duty radar, waiting for transit stateside.  To make a long story a little shorter, on arriving in the States, I took a bus from Travis to San Francisco International, where I caught a PSA jet to San Diego.  When I got to the airport, I ducked in the first restroom I came to, went into a stall and changed out of my uniform into a set of civies I'd had on the ship, shoes and all.  It was the very first opportunity I'd had to do so after re-entering the civilian world.

I did not do this because I was ashamed of my uniform, or of anything I had done, because I wasn't - I did it because, at that time, groups of people sometimes roamed the airports of our country, throwing blood, ***, urine and garbage on men in uniform as they came upon them, following them and chanting insults at them ('baby killer' was a favorite).  Especially in SF.  I just wanted to sit in the lounge, have a drink and wait for my flight home to San Diego.  I didn't want to have to put up with those people, not that day.

In college afterwards, I learned that it was simply best not to mention being a vet at school, or even in social situations.  There was a serious political/cultural divide.  Literally half of everybody, in those days, was strongly opposed the war.  Some, especially at school (but everywhere/anywhere, really),  felt compelled to take their anger over the issue out on vets - because we were available, I guess - usually by way of a highly-charged, personal verbal assault, right out in public.  Few people would take your part in those days, and many simply didn't want to know you if they found out you were a 'Nam vet.  I kid you not.  I just wanted to go to school and recreate, like a normal college kid.  So, mum's the word (though I never denied it, if asked, just never offered it).  As it turned out, my friends in college were all ex-GI's ...

Over the years, as I established and reared a family, it became less and less socially acceptable to verbally assault 'Nam vets.  Even the stereotypical homicidal-maniac 'Nam vet villian, so common in the 70's and early '80's on TV and in the movies, disappeared from our culture.  The past twenty years or so, seeing the American people receive their Dessert Storm,  Afghanistan/Iraq vets back with the honor and respect they deserve has pleased me greatly - more than I can say - and I thought we were past all that.

I am proud of my brother 'Nam vets, all of them, not only because they are mine, but because they served their country faithfully through extraordinarily difficult circumstances.

I, for one, am simply not going to keep it to myself anymore.  When it comes up, it comes up.  I had thought this forum a place where I could do that, where there might even be some mild interest in it, besides trading modelling knowlege and technique (absorbing it, really, on my part).  I still think it so, mostly.

Doug,

My son's middle name was given after his uncle Paul, who was killed in action in Vietnam.  He was in the 101st AB, same as your cousin.  The helicopter he was riding in was shot down.  It burned.  I  lost relatives, friends, shipmates, drinking buddies, neighbors, acquaintances, HS team mates, and on and on ...  to the war Vietnam.  None of them would have wanted me to suffer through the rest of my life for it, or hold it against anyone else.

I may be 'frivilous' when talking about liberty in the P.I., but never about war.

Further, please understand that I was not drafted into it - I enlisted.  Serving was a privilege, and I knew it (though, at the time, I didn't realize just how much of a privilege it truly was).  I served with WWII vets and Korea vets, side-by-side, day-in and day-out.  That is special to me now in a way I can't describe.  Besides that, I got to man a flight deck in combat, and it was the grandest adventure of my life.

If I may (hopefully) offer some constructive advice:  I skip a thread item from time-to-time on this forum because I can tell from the title that it wouldn't interest me.  I'd do so, also, if I thought - from the title of the thread - that a subject might cause me an adverse emotional reaction.

Peace.

Mark

Flight deck:  Hasegawa 1:48 P-40E; Tamiya 1:48 A6M2 N Type 2 ('Rufe')

Elevators:  Airfix 1:72 Grumman Duck; AM 1:72 F-4J

  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Right Side of a Left State
Posted by Shellback on Thursday, July 19, 2012 6:54 PM

Stik and old ordie .......well said .......with your last post you have made me feel much better about being here ! Like old ordie when i returned i to the states via S.F. (hippy central )(on a ship to Hunters point) the anamosity towards servicemen in that town was apparent . Not as bad as it would get later . I have deep feelings from those times and i always will . Amazing how this country has made such an about face towards our servicemen .

Good to be here with some fellow servicemen and vets !

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