Totally Confused about Vietnam War

stikpusher

I have a few Vietnam subjects in the works right now... a 1/48 RF-4C, a 1/35 Light Seal Support Craft, a 1/300 USS Ramsey FFG, a 1/35 Aussie M113 FSV...

The M113 FSV is a nice little kit. There's a few simple mods/additions which can be done to make it a little more accurate, but it comes up nicely.

Phil, what mods and additions does the FSV need?

I really like the weathering and faded paint look. Very nice work on M113 FSV

stikpusher

Phil, what mods and additions does the FSV need?

I'll say that I didn't want to attempt to fully accurise the kit, and my mods were mostly eyeballed, not measured. Tamiya based the kit on their earlier "straight" M113 and the FSV is based on an M113A1, so there are a couple of visible M113A1 mods like the lip extension on the trim vane and the external fire extinguisher box. In addition, the FSV also has a hinged, fold-down extension on the trim vane. Note that this is slightly shorter at the left end to clear the headlight cluster.

Note the turn-signal indicators, which I believe were required for driving on domestic (Australian) roads.

As it stands, the kit turret also needs an antenna base on the right hand side - the kit only provides one for the left side but this is easy enough to duplicate. Because I left the skirts off, I added the bolt-holes and the under-sponson armour using plastic card.

At the back end, I extended the bilge-pump outlet, which is just a nub in the kit, added trays and straps for the jerry cans and added the catch/release for the ramp door (inside the loop of the tow cable in this pic.

Very nice, what are your thoughts on the AFV Club (reboxed Academy M113A1/A2 kit) FSV? I thought overall the fit wasn't as great as the Tamiya kit, but I don't know a lot about the vehicle to be able to judge it on accuracy.

Rob, I wanted the AFV Club kit, but could never find it here (AFV Club are kinda scarce here in Aus). The Scorpion turret looks a whole lot meaner than the Saladin turret.

The one time I found the kit in a shop, the (metal) gun barrel was missing from the kit, so I didn't buy it. Being based on the Academy M113A1 kit, I am guessing it would have been a little more accurate, but I have never had a good look at the kit. IIRC, the AFV Club kit had indy-link tracks, so that would have been a plus.

If I recall correctly, after the FSV's were upgraded with the Scorpion turrets, they were redesignated "MRV"s (Medium Reconnaissance Vehicle/s). They also differ in having the bulged side extensions (flotation tanks?) and "wedged" trim vane compared to the original FSV.

Ignorant question, but what is a trim vane and why is it called that? Seems unique to the -113?

I get where it is from studying the photos- looks like the big rectangular thing on the front.

EDIT: ok a little Wiki work and it has to do with running in deep water, kind of like a dam. But then the article mentions "swimming". No way this thing could actually float, right?

My first cousin was in Vietnam around 1969 and commanded a 113.  I believe he told me that part was there to help them ford streams.  He added that, of course, it didn't work as planned, lol.

Gary

Yes, you can build a standard Academy M113A1/A2 (less interior) right out of the AFV Club FSV box. The only things it is missing would be regular version decals and AFV Club replaced the poor Academy kit tracks with their superior individual link tracks. The kit gives you a bunch of stuff for the parts box.

The all new F sprue adds the side floatation extensions (just styrofoam filled sheet metal), new roof and many detail parts like the rear caged turn signals. I don't remember if there were front caged turn signals or not.

You get the Scorpion turret and two suspension sprues (just to take a couple turret pieces off the suspension sprue). The rest of the pieces go into the parts box.

There isn't a canvas cover for the main gun tube. The one I built, I just went with the straight metal barrel. If I ever get around to building my second kit I'd add it with tissue paper.

I don't know about Australian M113 based vehicles, but on US vehicles, there aren't trays for the 5 gallon cans. It's just a little metal lip that catches the bottom edge of the metal 5 gallon can and the can is strapped horizontally. The tray is probably a better system because newer plastic 5 gallon cans don't have a lip to catch and are always coming loose.

It's a cool little kit, I'd have grabbed it even without the metal gun tube. The 76mm would be too easy to scratchbuild with styrene tubing or find a resin or an aluminum AM barrel.

When was the Scorpion turreted version in use?

bondoman

Ignorant question, but what is a trim vane and why is it called that? Seems unique to the -113?

I get where it is from studying the photos- looks like the big rectangular thing on the front.

EDIT: ok a little Wiki work and it has to do with running in deep water, kind of like a dam. But then the article mentions "swimming". No way this thing could actually float, right?

Here's a video of someone actally swimming the 113 (disregard the person posting the video trying to force the name "Gavin" on the 113).

Thank you for the information. My friends Gary and Bob were both army infantry, Bob spent his time carrying the big gun.

Gary suffers from exposure to Agent Orange.

My friend Jim was an airman.

My friend Keith was a helicopter pilot.

I had an Academy CH-46 but I gave it to Fermis because it's 1/48. It was a gift from Namrednef.

IF I built a Vietnam model, it'd no doubt be a fast mover. Considering a TF-100.

I should also mention that the trim vane acts like a bow of the ship, keeping the nose of the 113 from wanting to run below the water surface (submarining), which would be bad if that occured. The Bradley series also had a trim vane on earlier models, but the Army decided later versions were too heavy to swim and removed the swim barrier from them.

Rob, the Scorpion turreted version was used from the mid 70's to the early 90's. (sorry, can't find definitive dates). In hindsight, yes, I should have nabbed that kit. The Tamiya kit doesn't represent the canvas boot either, my one was made with tissue and tape. The Jerry can trays are a local mod

I think swimming the FSV would have been a hair-raising experience, as the turret added some two tons to the weight. I seem to recall reading that a trials vehicle sank after they traversed the turret while under way. There's a picture somewhere of a canvas "dam" which had to be erected around the radiator grilles for swimming operations, so I imagine there wouldn't have been much freeboard (scary sight from the driver's position).

Further on "trim vanes", I believe the LAV has one which slides out from the underside of the "nose" and the AAVP7A1 has a "flip out" type.

Rob Gronovius

I should also mention that the trim vane acts like a bow of the ship, keeping the nose of the 113 from wanting to run below the water surface (submarining), which would be bad if that occured. The Bradley series also had a trim vane on earlier models, but the Army decided later versions were too heavy to swim and removed the swim barrier from them.

Yup, FMC. My Cousin worked there for may years until he retired.

Check this one out. You really have to watch your entry angle and load distribution. I'll bet the driver was starting to sweat a little.

I only swam in a track once at Ft Benning. There was only a few inches of freeboard between the top deck and the water level in the pond. I am glad that was my only time. Not a comfortable secure feeling.

I ordered my TF-100 from Hannants today. It was the only place I could find it. Also ordered (gulp!) the fancy PE set from Eddie.

I'm a little frustrated that my book hasn't come yet; "Bury Us Upside Down", but should be any day.

Then of course the big question: whats the best SEA paint set?

Most companies make the standard USAF camo colors of Dark Green 34079, Medium Green 34102, Tan 30219, and Light Gray 36622. I am partial to Model Master and  then Polly Scale for color fidelity. Gunze's are pretty good too. Tamiya does not make any matches in their line up.

stikpusher

Most companies make the standard USAF camo colors of Dark Green 34079, Medium Green 34102, Tan 30219, and Light Gray 36622. I am partial to Model Master ...

Read all you can about the 1st. Cavalry

Could,nt have said it better--TANKER-builder

Stik , i recall you saying you werent into having G.B. badges in your signature .looks like you've been busy .Tell you what , they look reaaly cool the way you have them all organized . Looks great .

Talk to Ordie. Compliment him. He did it up for me. Otherwise I'd be a slicksleeve here   I can research and find stuff online like a Honey Badger, but computer graphic arts are not my forte here

LOL . You know i was woundering if you had someone do that up for you .

Chrisk-k

Although I've been interested in WWII for my entire life, I've only recently got interested in the Vietnam War.  I'm reading a book (Days of Valor) about what happened in '67-'68 (before the Tet Offensive) and I am totally confused!

The area of operation by the 199th Light Infantry Brigade described in the book is just above Saigon.  I know that Saigon fell in '75. So, was the North Vietnamese Army so close to Saigon in '67? Does it mean that most of Vietnam was controlled by the Vietcong in '67?  I always thought that in '67-'68 the front line was around the DMZ in the middle of Vietnam.  

One of the best documentaries I have watched on the subject of the Vietnam War is the box set “Vietnam: The Ten Thousand Day War”.  It is unbiased and gives a complete history from the time starting in WWII (when Japan invaded) to after the fall of South Vietnam.  The full version came out on 6 VHS tapes, there is a DVD version but a few of the chapters are left out.  You can still get the VHS version on eBay at a decent price if you shop around for it.  (There is one there now for $48).

On the subject of modeling for the Vietnam War, I personally plan on building one of every aircraft the USAF had used in support of the Vietnam War.  Here is a list I have put together:

Ken

Thats a good list of kits Ken . I'm still getting what info i can about the conflict . I have that DVD set you mentioned . My son gave it too me . He's now over in Afghanistan with USAF .I read your bio about your dad . The F-105 is one of my favorites , actually all of those century fighters where cool ! I suppose that the Afgan war will be another war we will ponder in the future . Right now i wonder about it .I'm building the SA-2 and transport now , in NVA markings . It might help me obtain some kind of insight into the other sides outlook .

Watch that DVD set then to get a good view of the other side's outlook Shell. You will get plenty of their point of view in it. I always felt that this particular documentary series was biased towards the Communist's and Anti War views. I dont recall seeing too many guys from the US military on their who were talking about the things that were done right by the US Military. Of course there were mistakes made, but there were also tings done right. It perpetuates the standard myth that Tet was a Communist victory, etc.

That SA-2 is a big kit on the transporter. I presume that you are building the 1/35 Trumpeter kit?

Shellback

Thats a good list of kits Ken . I'm still getting what info i can about the conflict . I have that DVD set you mentioned . My son gave it too me . He's now over in Afghanistan with USAF .I read your bio about your dad . The F-105 is one of my favorites , actually all of those century fighters where cool ! I suppose that the Afgan war will be another war we will ponder in the future . Right now i wonder about it .I'm building the SA-2 and transport now , in NVA markings . It might help me obtain some kind of insight into the other sides outlook .

Thank you for the compliment.  I have been studying about the Vietnam War for some time now.  It was quite complicated.  There were many infuences and interests.

I agree with you about the century fighters, they are one of my favorite aircrafts.  Back when beauty and performance were rolled up together!

I am sure you are very proud of your son!  I have the upmost respect for anyone who serves in the armed forces.  It is something I wish I had done when I was young enough to do so.

Ken

stikpusher

Watch that DVD set then to get a good view of the other side's outlook Shell. You will get plenty of their point of view in it. I always felt that this particular documentary series was biased towards the Communist's and Anti War views. I dont recall seeing too many guys from the US military on their who were talking about the things that were done right by the US Military. Of course there were mistakes made, but there were also tings done right. It perpetuates the standard myth that Tet was a Communist victory, etc.

That SA-2 is a big kit on the transporter. I presume that you are building the 1/35 Trumpeter kit?

I'm sorry, did I reference the wrong set? I have so many I may have. I thought this one was the right one.  Maybe the one I was thinking of was "Vietnam - A Television History".  It was also a box set that originally came out on VHS then later on DVD.  Same situation, the DVD is missing some chapters not included on the VHS set.

Ken