Super detail, time, and money

This has been a really helpful discussion for me to read. I am trying hard not to let my hobby become a fixation. I see what some folks do with their models and am blown out of the water. I am learning from what they do, but I really don't want to get worried about whether or not my model can get first place in a contest. I live with enough pressure. I don't need my de-compression activity to end up compressing me. So, I'm trying to find balance between good and best for my own satisfaction.

I am working on a Bronco Models kit right now that came with a small PE sheet. It includes little tiny handles that are supposed to replace the little protrusions for handles molded on the sides of some pieces. I'm sure they would look really cool under a magnifying glass, but once I put them on, hit them with primer and a coat of paint, I'm not sure you could even see through the hand opening on some of them. I'm not even sure I could see them once I cut them out of the sheet to put them on! Needless to say, I'm not bothering with those. There are a couple pieces that I will use because I think they'll add something meaningful to the build. The rest will go into my little spares collection.

I hope the detail people will keep building and posting pics. I am learning a lot and I like the results when I incorporate some of what I learn. I doubt I'll ever be in their league. That makes me sad to some degree, but I want to build for fun, and I can't have fun if I am worried about winning some competition. I'll post some stuff as time goes on and maybe somebody will like it and say so. That will be cool, but I hope no one says, "hey you got the wrong shade of grey on that knob."

I'm glad I came across this forum. It's a great group.

I am not really into contest anymore so I cannot really comment on wether AM is neccessary to win or not. But in IPMS rules the basics and consistency are the most important criterea.

As for using AM or not. Half of the time the kits that I build do not have any AM items avaible.

I do like to scratch some items but I would hardly call the super detailing, just dressing the model up, adding a sense of business. If it can not be seen, I am not modelling it.

I can be in complete awh when I see a master at work like ChuckW. But that is not what I am trying to achieve with my models. So in short, detailing(AM or scratch), yes, super detailing, no, not for me but if that "floats your boat" please do. And post pics, because it is always impressive to see.

Very nice subject.

I think superdetailing, whether through AM parts or scratchbuilding, depends on one's goals.  It might be for competitions, or what not, but for me, its for personal satisfaction.

Ive joined quite a number of contests over the years, and have been lucky enough to claim a number of wins.  I used to superdetail models for the competition, obviously, but  I havent actually been joining contests lately.  I of course attend to see the entries, and have been asked to judge a number of times, but I havent really joined in recent years (with the exception of 2012).  

Still, I superdetail my models as much as I can, even if I dont join contests. Why?  Because it gives me satisfaction.  And really, I wouldnt do scale modeling if it didnt give me any satisfaction.  I just want to see how far I can go with almost every kit I build, especially on kits I feel I likely wont build again.

A few months back I scratchbuilt a reasonably complete cockpit for a 1/200 C-130H.  I shook my head when I confirmed my own fears after completion that I could hardly see the tiny cockpit through the small windows.  Guess what?  Im currently building a 1/200 KC-767 which has even smaller windows, and I still built a complete cockpit.  Just so Im satisfied knowing its there.  Hahaha.

I try my best to scratchbuild my detail parts.  Lately, though, Ive been forced to buy PE railings for my 1/700 ships when I noticed my sight isnt as good as, oh, say, 10 years ago.

Some lot of years ago, FSM featured a highly modified 1/32 Monogram P-51D which had been converted to represent the RB-51 racer, the Red Baron. From the pictures in the mag, it was a shoe in to win the Nats that year.  A lot of us were stunned when it didn't even place - and even more stunned to learn that if you looked down thru the cockpit, you could see the ground below thru the wheel wells - none of us had noticed the builder had not furnished any pics of the interior as he had not installed one beyond the seat furnished in the kit!

How do you build a contest winning model? Basics, basics, basics.

Detailing and superdetailing are nice, tons of research and accurizing are fun, documented alternate schemes are cool, but it all four wheels aren't on the ground, road wheels or tracks are floating, ordnance is crocked, plastic isn't painted it the decals are silvered,. if there are finger prints in the paint and glue on the glass, if there are seam lines and mold lined, ejector pin marks and sinkholes, your only chance of winning is having models with more of these flaws than your own.

We had to do a 2nd and 3rd place tie breaker at our show Sunday, The kit that was eliminated lost second because rescribed panel lines where they'd been sanded off did not line up and the demarkation along the anti glare panel was not as sharp as could be. The other kit didn't have these issues.

We stopped offering OOB awards quite some time ago for two reasons. First, fully half of the awards would would not be used as there weren't any OOB in the class. Second, about half the OOB winning kits would also place 1, 2 or 3. When we did do a small OOB only contest at a display event, the same people who won with highly detailed kits in regular contests won in the OOB contest, indicating it was the quality of the builder, with or without AM/scratchbuilt parts.

Well thought out and stated opinions by all. Now,, it is my turn! Having gotten rid of all my modeling stuff about 20 years ago, I'm still buying kits I want. Not having grown up on PE and aftermarket stuff, that was all very new to me when I got back into the hobby. Never needed it, didn't use it, why bother?  Now, I've gotten some kits with PE included and I must say, I'm not a fan. My eyes are too bad, hands too stiff and patience too far gone. Most of it, I simply cannot see! I will also in all likelihood, never build a model for a contest or any type of show. I do like TarnShip's philosophy, use it as needed and not automatically.

However, I greatly admire those that use all they can get of this stuff and make what I consider "museum quality" pieces.

Fermis, Stikpusher and BSYamato have mastered the skill it seems, of using almost anything to create their own PE and aftermarket things. Scary good, they are.

I have cut my aftermarket usage back a bit. I now only use what is really necessary, or things that really make my life easier. A few examples can point this out.  I don't scratchbuild RF noses for a Cougar, I use one of the two conversion kits for that. AD-5W radomes are another spot, it is just so much easier to cut out and clean up, and then glue on the Falcon vac radome, than to follow the old Airfix instructions that I used to make a balsa wood radome for my AD-4W. (built a very long time ago)

I don't cut, carve, sand, etc, the parts to make a Mk 7 for a Nuke A-1, I just use one of the resin Mk 7 I bought from Spectre. I use aftermarket weapons whenever I can get them, it saves so much time over making a master to cast my own. Things like a 1/72 scale Gatling for the AC-47,,,,,,nope, not going to scratch build 4 of those, I just buy the Quickboost set.

I don't use Aftermarket in the cockpits anymore, either,,,,,,,just a resin seat, or the best injected plastic seat I have spare.

If I display my model somewhere that a viewer can peek in my cockpit and tell me that my instrument panel has the Altimeter where the Mach gauge should be,,,,,,I will just distract him by asking him to tell me some of his flying stories.  And let's face it, most modelers don't know things like Phantom rear cockpits well enough to know that an RF-4B is the exception to the "no console" in back of Naval Phantoms rule. (so, I make sure I put that console in every RF-4B, lol)

I agree with Don,,,,,,the cost of modeling stays fairly constant whether you detail or not, I go for the "most for the least" approach.

I do have a deadline of sorts,,,,,,I don't want to be the guy that built an aircraft for only 73% of the carriers from CV-1 to CVN-76.

Rex

This year is my first time attempting to use aftermarket parts on 3 different kits - all of them gun barrels. Who knows what I'll do down the road? Undercarriage pods/weapons, wheels/tires, cowling, etc...

It all depends on what the subject I want tobuild to make it look as accurate as possible for my benefit and satisfaction.

Super detailing certainly takes time. But money is another question. Fermis is probably the prime example of builders on here who use inexpensive materials such as cut up soda/tea cans and salvaged wire to super detail his builds. And his builds are simply a joy to see on here. Even for a modest investment in strip, rod, and sheet styrene, plus a bit more for some brass wire, lets say in the total of $20, a modeler can get the basic raw materials for their own super detailing stuff. For the cost of one AM set or less.

Hello!

Every model has it's limitations and inaccuracies. First thing a conscious modeller has to do, is to define what is he trying to accomplish, realize the cost (in money, but also time and hard work) and stick to it. If you don't, you run the risk of the "I want it all" attitude, and that can be frustrating. A serios limiting factor in modelling is the nowledge of the 1:1 subject. Suppose you're doing a german WWII fighter. Ever seen one? Unrestored? Just after that we can get really detailed about colours and little details. Otherwise it can look cool with aftermarket but will not necessarily be accurate.

A very interesting subject, by the way, thanks for bringing it up Don!

Have a nice day

Paweł

The first thing a judge looks at is the build, paint and decal application quality in the entry. With out these, no am parts will make a difference as your score will take HUGE hits if the fundamentals of model building are not met.

I cannot recall a model show that I have attended, and I have attended at least 50 shows where OOB category was not featured. The only reason I get am items is if I want to open up panels  to showoff internals or if the plastic part is not scale or too thick , as in a ship's railing as an example. Otherwise I build it pretty much out of the box with some scratch work of missing details.

I really don't get builders that replace perfectly good detailed parts in kits, specially if they will  not be visible with super expensive am parts.

If you ask many contest judges, they will tell you after market items per se does not make a better model. Besides, you can always scratch build the details.