The moral high ground

I often thought what someone might think by me building a Tiger Tank or the Bismark. I am a God fearing Christian and thought about it. The answer to me is that these machines are technological wonders created by very ingenious designers. We do not build them to show what country is the master race. Now, if someone or someone did a diaroma of a concentration camp or even killings at Ausrelitz then I would have too ask why. A lot of modern item all of us enjoy today came from the war machine over the ages. What does that say about us. Models are just that, a piece of history frozen in time.

Modelling is just that ( Building models) It does not matter what your subject matter is. I have been faced by people who have questioned my motives in modelling military subjects, my standard reply to them "I model for the enjoyment of it and if you don't like it who cares."

Modelling is about enjoyment and relaxation so pick your subjects on what you enjoy and forget the PC lobby.

As a modelrailroader also, I've participated in many shopping mall shows, and because I collect MARKLIN trains as well as American, some of the German engines that I displayed had a Nazi Swastika on the side, very ,very small but still there. I never thought twice about it but at one show this little old lady in her 80's made a very big deal out of it. Now she wore glasses and really had to strain to see anything on the side of this loco, but it bothered her so much and we were in a public forum, that I removed it and then replaced it after she left. I guess if the New York Central had been owned by German/Americans, she would have made a big deal out of that too. My point is this, it doesn't matter what other people think of your hobby, it's yours, not theirs, so don't let it bother you. You model what you want, when you want, thats what this great country of OURS is all about. So screwwwwwww, political correctness. I've told many a would be critic where they could shove it and at 58 years of age I don't plan on stopping now. Modelling as with Modelrailroading is a fun hobby, don't ever let anyone take that fun away from you.

B-36,
Well said ! Are your trains HO scale?
Fuzzy

Well, as perhaps the originator of this discussion in the armor forum I’m going to chime in late here because I just found this thread.

First, I was pleased to see what I think are some excellent responses to this topic. Second, I want to reiterate what I said in the armor forum that started this somewhat heated discussion. I do not disapprove of anyone modeling SS armor, or putting the swastika decal on their model of an Me 109. But I try to stay away from SS topics myself. I admire the technological advances that the Germans made during the war, but I see no reason that I can’t model these subjects without representing SS units.

Why do I stay away from certain subjects?? Well like I said before; for lack of better wording, I just feel kina funny. Perhaps this is because I would not want anyone to think that I, in any way support the Nazi party, or what the SS did. Do I care what other people think? No, but I am also very opinionated and I would not want anyone to get the wrong impression for even a second about this topic.

I realize that the side that you are going to be on during a war is predominately determined by either where you were born, or what religion you were born into. However, the SS was the personal guard of the Nazi party and not a part of the army. While I cannot criticize what the members of the SS did because I have no idea what I may have done in their situation, I do not support their actions in any way whatsoever. Yes, the allies participated in some morally questionable actions as well. I do not support these actions either. While again, I cannot criticize these actions, I find myself ashamed as an American that we incarcerated Japanese-Americans during WWII and I find no pride in the fact that the US is the only country in the world that has dropped a thermo-nuclear weapon on another nation in aggression.

As the source of this debate, some may have formed some opinions about me and questioned my “liberal” beliefs. I was going to put a response to this in the post, but decided to update my profile instead.

Oh, and in response to the original subject, yes. After looking over my collection of mainly German armor for the first time, my current girlfriend asked me if I was in any way a Nazi. No, I’m not.

edog

QUOTE: Originally posted by fuzzy B-36, Well said ! Are your trains HO scale? Fuzzy

Yep, HO, German and American.

FWIW - I think the fact that, through our hobby, many of us modellers have read around and studied the history of the Second World War probably gives us a better appreciation of the conflict from both sides than many of the so-called Poltically Correct brigade. Yes, the Nazis were evil but Germany was supposedly a civilised country (like other European countries or the US). We need to understand why Nazism flourished there because only by understanding history can we ever hope to prevent it repeating itself (look at the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans for evidence that there are still lessons to be learned).

I have just read a book called "Telling Lies About Hitler" which deals with a libel case brought in the UK in 2000 by a "historian" called David Irving who was accused of being a Holocaust denier. The book was written by the guy who was employed to uncover examples where Irving had fabricated evidence to downplay the Holocaust and Hitler's part in formation of the Final Solution. Fortunately Irving lost but it was clear from this book that there are people out there who have their own wicked agendas as far as this era of history is concerned.

We have to face up to the past to understand and accept it. If there are people out there who would prefer to ignore historical fact when it upsets them, then that may open the door for those who would actively deny or distort historical fact.

What I would say as a counterbalance is that we should appreciate that people may have issues with the swastika not for politically-correct reasons but for personal reasons.

I think we all ( young and old)( American and Not) have experienced negative responses to the modeling we do. Both Political, and not.
I.E. I like Fords.. Can't understand why you modeled a Chevy... But some people would say "Is that a Republican driving that Ford or did you model a Democrate because Republicans don't drive Fords..."That don't look like FS 14444 ????? Wrong color, wrong wheels, wrong doorlatch....
ViVe La Difference..The fact is Nazi and Japanese military machines leave a bad taste in the mouth of most people ( American and Not ) That are in the 50 year old plus age group. Yes I'm in that group thank you.... This is understandable after all it was their families that were ravaged by the military of the Axis countries.. Yes many innocent AXIS people were killed by Allied weapons of destruction but the bottom line to many of these people is we did not start it.. War sucks.. I do know this. I have BTDT.. Vietnam 71..enough said. I know many model building Plastichallics like me. They are for the most part intellegent andfrustrated "Walter Mitteys" like I am..
We love our hobby for a million different reasons. Now if we allow the negative banter of uninformed or just angry at anything people affect our hobby then it is no longer a hobby.. I build models to pass time and I really can't afford the real item.. I love history and the fine company and conversation of "FELLOW MODLERS" Let's leave the politics to Movie Stars and not ruin our past time worrying about the PC Crowd My biggest worry is how to rapair super glue mistakes....As for the Nun well I'm a Catholic and her issues are better not discussed in this forum but I do apoligise for the rest of us not PC Catholics. Ummm now I think I can reach that part from my soap box.. No I'll have to get down now..
Smile
Butch

Very interesting thread. While it is centered on military subjects and 'evil' markings, etc. I'm here to tell you you're not alone as victims of PC. Something you military modelers may not be aware of - It is now impossible to buy a kit of a race car whose teams have alcohol or tobbacco sponsors. The reason? Someone decided that since this is a kid's hobby (I know, bear with me.) impressionable children building a kit with those markings might get the idea it's OK to drink or smoke. So the manufacturers phased them out. (Anyone want to guess how many kids have to reach past Dad's six-pack for a soda?) Remember Joe Camel? He got axed because he was a "cartoon character enticing kids to smoke". How 'bout the gay Teletubbie? Mighty Mouse snorting cocaine? It seems more and more EVERYTHING offends someone, and since they are on their moral high ground they will do their best to 'protect' the rest of us.

I don't have the slightest qualm about building German or Japanese models (although I must admit as an ex-infantryman with the 25th Division in WW II in the Philippines, I still won't buy a Japanese car...something about the name Mitsubishi that still bothers me!) as they are just war machines and some very good ones at that. In addition to many US and allied aircraft and vehicles I have made, I also just finished the beautiful Tamiya Bismarck 350 scale battleship...complete with the two Nazi insignia on the deck...This is history, NOT that damned "politically correct" nonsense! I still have an unbuilt Heinkel 111 bomber to build and am very upset that the decals do NOT include a swastika which appeared on EVERY German WW II aircraft on the rudder. Grrrr.rrr! Don't worry about the "ebemy aircraft, my friends. Make your models as accurate as you can and le