Unusual Vietnam Hueys

Ray,

You found my reference on LAU-3 by Yourself. Man, You're fast :) I would like to point out that there is a lot of confusion regarding Army 19-shot rocket launchers. First they tested and used the LAU-3, which was the basis for the first 19-shooter produced for the Army-the M159. M159 was in turn replaced by the M200. I'm affraid I cannot provide any info on when each rocket pod was introduced, but I'll look into it. So basicly many authors erronously refer to M159 as M200 and viceversa. It is especially diffucult to tell apart the later M159 models (M159B/C) from M200 as they were about the same length (early M159s were shorter than M200s). But I suggest You visit a very good web site dealing with Unexploded Ordnance, cause they have tons of info on different ordnance and launchers/dispensers. Here' the link to their search page:

http://maic.jmu.edu/ordata/search.asp?SearchMode=0

After closer inspection of Your quad LAU-3 UH-1B image I've been able to identify it: it is a UH-1B 62-01877 flown by the UTTHCO. The picture of this bird also appears on page 23 of Squadron/Signal UH-1 Huey gunships Walk Around armed with quad LAU-3s with breakaway nose fairings. The photo was probably taken in 1964 to early 1965 as it still wears the high-vis yellow tail number; 68th AC(AH) (unit activated using choppers, equipment and personnel of UTTHCO) started to replace high-vis scheme and markings with the low-vis in early 1965. Here You have it-Case closed

Marko

Marko,

  Thanks, I already checked out the ORDATA site earlier.  I thought I had seen that Huey in my refs somewhere, but I was too lazy yo look through them all.   Thanks for the info.

       Ray
 

Hey all,

 Man, you guys keep coming up with some of the best photos!  The sensor on the roof of that Huey looks like an early TOW turret installation. Could be one of the really early testbeds before they went to the chin bubble installation.  Definitely one for me to look further into.  Ray, do you have the PN number on that one?  

The missile... hmm... goooooood question.  My first instinct, due to the length of the launcher was possibly a Maverick, but what we can see of the missile is considerably smaller.  Got me on that one!

Well, I inprocessed at my unit today.  Got me 4 AH-64As to call my very own now. Now to learn how to fly the darned thing!  John, I'll be out your way in a couple weeks for the Alpha course!

Jon 

While you guys are on the TOW subject, i have been sorting out my pictures today and came across these.

 Not much info other than it was one of the first TOW rocket hueys in Vietnam, taken by a guy from the 129th AHC. I havnt had time to check if you guys have already posted these pics, but thought i would pop them on, before i forget.

Andy

Andy,

Those are pictures of one of two UH-1Bs equiped with XM26 Tow system deployed to Vietnam in 1972 (Your images show the late-style camouflage). And by the way, I don't use any ''supercharged'' search engines for finding my photos and info, I guess I just got a nose for these things (and a bit of luck) ;)

As for the Ray's missile-do You guys think it could be an experimental air-launched version of the MGM-51 Shillelagh; I remember reading about a competition in 1960s between TOW and Shillelagh for helicopter launched applications... There seem to be no fins on the missile in Ray's photo (not yet deployed I guess) which is concurrent with MGM-51 pop-out fins; also, the size and shape are quite similar to MGM-51.

I also found a photo of another missile tested on Hueys in 1960s, early 70s-the AGM-64 Hornet. This missile was developed for USAF in 60s as an anti-tank missile (later dropped in favour of AGM-65 Maverick) and was also used as a test bed for Hellfire guidance system in the 70s.

And a couple more images of UH-1M ''Night fighters''. Some of these images can be found in Squadron/Signal books, but I include colour versions :) I've been wanting to build an INFANT Huey for quite some time, but just cannot get enough detailed photos, especially of the cockpit displays/control panels,...really frustrating! Maybe my posts on INFANT Hueys will prompt somebody to provide us with more images... The first image shows a UH-1M INFANT of the INFANT NETT (later INFANT DET)-the tactical designator on the tail boom indicates it was a part of 12th Aviation Battalion (please correct me if I'm wrong about battalion); EDIT: it was 11th Combat Aviation Battalion, 12th Combat Aviation Group.

The second image shows a weapons/systems operator in INFANT Huey cockpit; note the stick used to control the sensors/miniguns.

This an early version of the INFANT patch (You will also note this logo on the nose of the UH-1M INFANT above).

And an UH-1M equiped with AN/AAQ-5 FLIR; some of these were also deployed to Vietnam.

Marko

 I have no words to express my elation!

Jon,

  Which spectacular image are you elated about, the TOW birds?

And,

   You beat me to the puch with the TOW birds.  I found those the other day on the 129th site, but hadn't got around to posting them.  I guess turn abouts fair play, right, Jon!

      Ray
 

I've gotten in contact with the guy who took those photos of the NUH-1B and he's willing to send copies of his photos to the museum at Rucker!

Yeah, I'm a little excited!

Jon
 

Jon,

Great stuff! Glad he got back to you. And to think i nearly didnt bother posting them . Im really pleased that they have come in handy for you, Chris and the Museum (sorry i missed the 4th shot ). I found a few other colour shots of similar birds, but i expect you already have them, as they belong to a guy from Blue Max. Anyway il send em over later, just incase. 

Andy 

Jon, plan on it being hot 100+ with big afternoon and evening thunderboomers, not much at Marana cept rattlesnakes and scorpins and lots of stored jetliners.

Plan on spending some time at Pima Air and Space if you have time

Guys,

Ive found a few more pics that you might find interesting.

Another photo of a 19 shot pod and minigun combo.

A rare shot of 280 shot rocket pods!! lol only joking, i have no idea whats going on here, other than a huey with a very wide load! anyone have any ideas?

While on the subject of oversized rocket pods, Whats this next shot all about???

Whats this???

Hope you enjoy the pics and can fill in some blanks.

Andy

Andy,

  Great pics, man!  I think the last one is a flare pod, but I don't know the designation for the system. The next to the last one looks like the XM-47 mine dispenser (see the first pic I posted for this thread).  THe first batch of pics appear to be the M-18 minigun pod.  They were usually mounted on Cobras (called M-18E1), but I'm pretty sure that's what it is.  The unit, by the way, is the 336th AHC (Thunderbirds was gun platoon).  

     Ray

Edit:  It's nice to actually be right the first time for a change:

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skypirate1 wrote:

A rare shot of 280 shot rocket pods!! lol only joking, i have no idea whats going on here, other than a huey with a very wide load! anyone have any ideas? Hope you enjoy the pics and can fill in some blanks. Andy

Okay, I'm gonna take a stab at this one.

I recently saw a picture of a UH-60 medivac being used to transport relacement rotor blades. The boxes looked similar to the boxes in this Huey.

May not be right but, it's a pretty good guess!

Keep the pics coming guys. I'm getting some great ideas for my Huey kits. If I ever get things set back up.

Hey Guys!

That wide load on that Huey are in fact boxes with new rotor blades; see the photo of HA(L)-3 UH-1B Seawolf 308 I found on HA(L)-3 photo albums page; the caption to this photo on their site confirms these are rotor blade boxes.

As for that Thunderbird UH-1B with minigun pods-at the time those photos were taken the unit was still Company A 101st Aviation Battalion Winged Warriors/Thunderbirds. And I found a story behind this unusual minigun/M5 bird: A/101st got the minigun pods from the USAF, so they were the original SUU-11 minigun pods, not the Army version (M18).

That multiple flare exector rack is quite unusual; I don't know the designation but I've only ever seen these Multiple Ejector Racks on Navy OP-2Es and marine OV-10As (they would use them for dropping ADSIDS sensors) and USAF A-26 Counter Invaders (they used them for dropping flares)... The bird in the photo is a 25th Aviation Battalion bird.

I also found some info on XM47 system (if anyone is interested). The system was first used on Army Hueys, but was later more commonly seen on USAF A-1Es. Each dispenser was loaded with four submunition canisters containing what was known as ''Gravel'' mines. Gravel were basicly lumps of pressure sensitive explosive packed in a cloth wrapping (so the pressure alone would set them off if somebody steeped on the thing-no fuze needed!!!) Because of the volatile nature of the Gravel, submunition canisters were double walled-outside compartment was filled with liquid nitrogen which acted as a cooling agent and expulsion agent; the mines in the inner compartment were submerged in liquid freon which rendered mines inactive; so when the mines were ejected (using the above mentioned liquid nitrogen) the freon would evaporate and the mines would become active. The carrier aircraft were fitted with temperature and pressure gauges and crew had to monitor freon temperature and pressure readings constantly-if the pressure started dropping/temperature rising the standard SOP was to jettison the XM47 dispensers immediately to avoid detonation of the ''Gravel''...needless to say, this system was not very popular with the crews :) Garvel mines didn't contain enough explosive to kill a person, but enough to seriously mess up Your foot or puncture a tire on a truck, so they were used to affect VC/NVA mobility and to act as amplification devices for setting off seismic sensors (ADSIDS) dropped along Ho Chi Minh trail.

Marko 

Marko,

   XM18 and SUU-11/A were identical systems, only the designation was different (Army vs. Air Force).  They were even both white.  Wouldn't a SUU-11/A fitted to an Army bird become a M18?  Great research, man.  Without the documentation there is NO way to tell them apart from those photos that I know of.  What was your source? 

    Ray
 

Guys,

I am ever impressed with the amount of effort and research and that you guys put into these threads. Though i respect your enthusiasm and knowledge 100%, Personally i have tried to avoid getting into the intricate details for fear of becoming the Huey equivalent of a train spotter (no offence intended to transpotters or any other kind of spotter ) for me the beauty lies within the beast that is the huey. Maybe im speaking out of turn but sometimes it seems that we use this forum to measure our huey knowledge almost in a competative way and forget that its a modeling forum and not a chat room for measuring huey manhood on "who knows the most about widths, lengths, nuts and bolts.

You should all know me well enough by now to know i mean absolutely no offence , all im trying to say is ive been researching the huey for a long time and some of these posts go straight over my head. So to any nubie coming into helo modeling it could be enough to bore or scare them back off to the FSM Armour section and i wouldnt wish that on anyone .

If your going to give armament system designation numbers for a huey try to supply a brief simple explanation of what your talking about and "trapezoidally shaped tips that reduced tip vortexing" are included in that .. (You know who you are) . Not every helicopter modeler is an avionics expert so your knowledge and comments nomatter how clever will be sadly wasted.

Its fantasic that we have access to so much detailed information, but please try not to get carried away and detract any respect from the guys on here whos knowledge, interest, experience, enthusiasm and dedication for the huey go far beyond the nuts and bolts ;)

Lets try to keep things a little more interesting and a little less baffling. You know what i mean guys .

Anyway time for some pictures.

Firstly another couple of shots of hueys with the minigun pod, this time from the 281st AHC, If it helps those that care, the minigun pod in the second shot is confirmed as an air force pod by the guy that took the picture. Also pretty interesting to see a minigun pod mounted with the quad M60 flex guns.

Another photo from the 281st, this time a UH-1C "Wolf Pack" gunship armed with twin door mounted M60s, something you only usually see on slicks.

Next is a couple of colour shots of an ARA gunship armed with the Maxwell system and 18 rockets on each side, similar to the b&w pictures i posted earlier, For the benefit of those that love their detail this is a very early UH-1B from C/CO 2/20th ARA, Bureau Number 64-14054.

Another couple of rare pictures of a 2/20th ARA UH-1B, this time from Alpha Company

Lastly a front on, nose art colour shot for all the lovers of the 116th AHC ship, "Big Daddy" featured earlier on in this thread. Sadly that mean looking gun is missing from the picture.

Andy.

Andy,

  I hear ya man, but this is the Unusual Huey thread.  If your here thinking your gonna find out how to build a hog ship maybe you need to rethink your choice of intro material!  I guess I am becoming a rivet counter these days, but I really want to get the details right.  I am for supplying the most info possible for any picture you post.  Unit, serial number, weapons system and date help make it a bird you could build.  A cool picture of a naked girl painted on the nose of a Huey with no other info isn't that useful to me!  What I would really like to see is people reading the technical terms, going to Google and entering them, and 90% of the time you get a nice explanation.  It's a little work, but hey, we have worked pretty hard to keep this forum interesting.  If you just want to build a helo out of the box, what would you be doing here, anyway?

I'm done now! Back to your regularly scheduled thread.

   Ray 

 Oh yeah, Great pics, by the way!

Ray,

For those that cant find any use for "cool pictures of naked girls" without the need of info,this thread is without doubt the best place to come .

I ment no offence mate lol,  just saying alot of the info is highly technical and although im all for doing research for yourself, the whole point in the forum is to share information and help fellow modelers of all levels of experience and knowledge, it seems a bit mean to drop terms that only the avionics experts will understand and expect the rest with an interest in hueys or unusual hueys to hit google. Whats the point in coming to a huey modeling forum for help and explanations on hueys when you are directed to google for answers???

Anyway, what do i know, Its a great thread.

Glad you liked the pictures.

Andy 

Andy,

  I admit Marko has posted stuff that is way over my head lately, but that just makes me want to know more about the subject.  Besides, it's good to realize you don't know everything sometimes or, in my case, much of the time!  I guess we're all entitled to our own opinions, after all. Anyway, enough jibber jabber, here's a pic of a VNAF gunship that should make you feel better (I know how much you love those armed D models).  Ray

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Guys!

In reply to ''information overload'' of my posts: I have to agree with Ray on this one. Im my opinion, in scale modelling details make the difference!!! I mean, don't get me wrong, I respect anyone's personal opinion, but if You're speaking from Your own personal perspective, it doesn't mean it reflects opinions of everybody! In case my posts are too technical or contain information that is (was) not explained enough, You are allways welcome to ask for more detailed description and I'll be more than happy to reply :) I just think we should focus on providing as many interesting photos and detailed descriptions to accompany those images and not waste space on FSM forums for arguing over one's personal approaches to information gathering/providing about our modelling subjects.

Ray,

You are right about the SUU-11/M18-they were identical; Though I believe this was the early SUU-11/A that didn't have selectable rate of fire-it only fired at 6000rpm.

My source on minigun pods on that A/101 Thunderbird:

http://www.a101avn.org/TheHog.htm

Marko 

Marko,

   Thanks for the info. I had read that before, but i didn't know it applied to the specific bird Andy posted. 

          Ray
 

Andy,

Great ARA pics!  My guess is that those pics were taken in late spring or early summer 1968.  C Battery started getting their Cobras in August and flew mixed formations for a short period of time.  The last Hueys left the unit in December of that year.  

Cool stuff!

Jon 

Andy,

  I forgot to mention that is a great pic of the mounting barcket for the big gun on Big Daddy.  I think someone could actually tackle that build now with the other pics as well to go on.

Jon,

  How's New Jersey?

  Ray
 

Ray,

Maryland, actually!  Its FANTASTIC!  I start my new job on Monday and I'm PSYCHED.  I still have to go out to Arizona in September for the Alpha course but I'll be working in DC and flying from PA once things finally settle in.  Things are just unbelieveable right now, and with great neighbors like Chief Snake, the transition has really been easy.  

 I may actually head over to the National Archives today to do a bit of research!

Jon 

Jon,

  Sorry, I had a feeling I was wrong about the state!  Dang Yankees, I can't keep 'em straight!  I'm glad things are going well.  Good luck at the archives!

     Ray

Ray,

Great shot of the D model! Ive never seen one with door mounted minigun and rocket pods on the same ship, great stuff. Thanks for posting it.

Jon,

Just checked to see if there was any more info to go with that ARA ship, and your spot on, The first picture with the maxwell system was taken in 1968 at LZ Evans, the second shows three ships at the refueling point at Bong son in 1966. I just realised ive put Company and not Battery , a habit i will have to hurry up and break out of.

Marko,

Your posts are great and in future if the techical info included with the pictures boggles my brain (which isnt hard) i will ask , I was probably a bit unfair in my post as when it comes to the history, dates, places, numbers and units i too love my detail. But posts about nuts, bolts and trapezoidally shaped tips, may aswell be written in Japanese . But that just goes to show how much i still need to learn.

Andy.

Andy,

Well if you,ve never seen one, I guess I should post another pic of her:

[img]http://

Both this pic and the one above are from the 236 AWC (actually 238th AWC, thanks Jon and Chief Snake)  web site.  Sorry, no date.

  Ray
 

Andy,

Don't worry! I didn't take it personally :) Glad to see those links I e-mailed You helped You find some ARA shots. Anyway, here are a couple more images of VNAF UH-1H gunships. VNAF had their UH-1H gunships armed with the same systems as the USAF UH-1Ns (two 7-shot rocket pods and two M93 door-mounted minigun subsystems).

UH-1H 67-17394, Squadron unknown in 1970 somewhere over the Delta; note that rockets in the 7-shot pods were fitted with 17-pound M229 warheads; 

Another shot of the 67-17394: note the lack of any squadron insignia and that this UH-1 had one rotor blade painted white (which was quite common for late war Hueys):

VNAF gunner getting the feel for the minigun on a training mission (note the USAF instructor behind the gunner):

Marko 

 Holy.......

I wanna build that one!

Thanks a lot for the pics!

Andy