Unusual Vietnam Hueys

Andy and Andy, 

So you like door mounted miniguns and rockets, huh.  Well, HA(L)-3 used both and more as standard armamant on their ships.  Here are a few pics of "The Judge,"  a door mounted mini in Detachment 2:

[img]http://[img]http://[img]http://[img]http://[img]http://

 Some other minis:

Det-3:

[img]http://[img]http://

Det-4:

[img]http://[img]http://[img]http://[img]http://[img]http://[img]http://[

Det-6:

[img]http://" border="0" />

Det-7:

[img]http://

[img]http://

Det-8:

[img]http://

Det-9:

[img]http://" border="0" />

You will notice that the minigun barrels have flash supressors.  This was common in HA(L)-3, but not on Army miniguns.  Well, minis are nice and all, but what about the BIG GUNS?  Here are a few of the better 50 cal shots from the Seawolves (They were used by all 9 detachments along with minis):

Det-2 ship:

[img]http://[img]http://[img]http://[img]http://[img]http://

[

Det-3 ships:

[img]http://[img]http://[img]http://[

Det-4 ships:

[img]http://[img]http://[img]http://

Det-5 ships:[img]http://[img]http://

Det-6 ships:

[img]http://[img]http://

Det-7 ship:

[img]http://" border="0" />

 Det-9 ships:

[img]http://

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Det-4:

(Det-2)

[img]http://" border="0" />

And to end this one off with a bang, how about twin 30 cals?!

Det-3

" border="0" />

Det-5 ship:

[img]http://

Maybe I went a little overboard, huh?  Anyway, enjoy!

  Ray
 

Well, I've been following this Thread for awhile, and it's given me great ideas on what I can do with future Huey models. Thanks guys for all the great pics!

BTW, nice 'bird' in one photo, and I also love the full 'moon' shot in the other! 

  Sweet pics!

Thanks so much!

Andy

Ray,

Great pics, thanks for posting, I tried to find that 236 AWC webpage but had no luck, i did find the VNAF website however thanks to you mentioning that it was a Vietnamese Helo, I was going to put up those shots Marko posted today but he beat me to it (Thanks for the links to the ARA shots btw Marko, i havnt had chance to look at the Cav ones yet but il pop up any cool pics i find). I never thought of looking for VNAF pics before your post Ray, so thanks for that. I was hoping that there would be some photos of 190th AHC birds possibly still with there Gladiator markings from when they were handed over to the 233rd Helicopter Squadron, but nope, another dead end.

Anyhoo, its a great site,there's a couple of nice B&W photos of those minigun/rocket 1H's on there also, but il leave them for someone else to put up.

Andy.

236th?

The only AeroWeapons Companies in Vietnam were the 235th Delta Devils, 238th Gunrunners and the 361st Pink Panthers.  Was that a typo, or was there a 236th Avn that I'm not picking up on? 

Jon

It's a typo on someones part. The three you list are the only three AWC's and NO aviation company in that theatre area carried that designation.

Chief Snake 

Sorry guys. I just used the heading of the folder the VNAF pics were in.  I assume I identified it incorrectly when I saved the image.  I have looked for the original website with no luck so far.  Trying to keep Vietnam units straight is like learning Japanese (to quote Andy) for me.  I apologize for any confusion.

    Ray
 

Edit: Found it!  The VNAF pics are from the  238 AWC site.  Sorry about that.

While we're on the subject of the 238 AWC, here are acouple of unusual gunship doorgun pics.  The first is a M60D mounted in the door of a UH-1B. Does anyone know the proper designation for this swinging mount?

[img]http://" border="0" />

The second set is of a couple of UH-1B gunships with an M60A with brass catcher bag attached:

[img]http://

This ship is a Bravo model with a C model tailboom relacement:

i

Ray,

Glad to see someone finally started posting some HA(L)-3 photos. I've been thinking about doing it myself but You beat me to it :)

For starters, a twin M60 mount on HA(L)-3 Det-5 bird in 71-72; note how they would mount the 60s to eject brass downwards.

For those interested in bulding a scale model of that Det-2 ''The Judge'' UH-1B, here's some info and pics that might help: It was a UH-1B with a C-model tailboom, painted dark OD and carried squadron aircraft number 304 in white on the tail (for most part HA(L)-3 would repaint their Hueys in dark OD and would also paint out army tail numbers) and in smaller charracters on the nose above avionics cover panel; The Judge and 7-shot M158 rocket launcher were mounted on the right side and M21 (M158/minigun) and sagami mounted M60 on the left side. These photos were taken in 1970; the bird was later transferred to Det-8 in 1971.

Note ''Grim Reaper'' art on weapons mount dust cover; this also appeared in Det-2 patch:  

Note ammo box for M60 ammo attached to the Sagami mount: 

Ray, I don't think those 238th AWC M60 mounts were assigned any designation. I believe the 238th devised those mounts and were not standardized (I suppose they were manufactured ''in country'' by the 238th). Similar mounts were used by the 134th AHC gunships.

Marko 

Guys,

I came across a very interresting piece of information while reading the 162nd AHC history: under 1968 part of the history You can find the following paragraph (direct copy/paste):

''In the October-November period the 162nd was chosen to experiment with helmet sights for the XM-21 Minigun system. Sperry Rand sent a technician over to work with the Copperheads on the test of what was called the Viper Sight, or “the Look of Death”. SP5 John Ohmer (armorer) and WO Dennis O’Brien helped install and test the system which electrically/mechanically linked the pilots’ helmets to both miniguns and the M-5 grenade launcher. Wherever the pilot looked, the miniguns would be automatically aimed. It worked well under ideal conditions but the dust, heat and humidity played havoc with the small servos attached to the helmet. The system wasn’t quite ready for field conditions. This was the forerunner of the helmet-mounted sight used in the current day Apache gunship.''

Here's the link to the pdf:

http://www.vhpamuseum.org/companies/162ahc/162ndHistory.pdf

Now, I did some research, but couldn't find much additional info on this Helmet sight system except that it was supposedly also tested on AH-1Gs (some sort of helmet sight system was  also offered as a part of avionics package for Bell 309 King Cobra in 1971). I guess this ''Viper Sight'' was a prototype version of the later M128/M136 Helmet sight system that was used on post-Vietnam Army and USMC Cobras.

Jon, did You come across any info regarding helmet mounted sights on AH-1Gs in Vietnam, while doing research for Your AH-1 units in Vietnam book?

Marko 

have you ever heard anyone tell you that a Huey could NEVER lift another Huey unless it was totally stripped of equipment.  Well:

[img]http://

 This photo was taken in November of 1963.  It shows one UH-1B (61-1719) lifting another UH-1B (61-1714).  the rotors of 714 have been removed, but I still see the engine, dash, and based on the obscured crew window what looks like a not so empty cabin.  I have no location info, but this is probaly in the states.  Note the felow studiously observing the operation on his belly in the lift helo.  Also, the two ships look to be different shades of green.  I just thought it was a neat pic that might interest some of you.

    Ray
 

I noticed the tail rotor was off, but I missed the horizontal stabs.  The stabs wouldn't really take much weight off, though.  It wouldn't make sense to haul a ship full of fuel.  How much fuel does  a B model hold, anyway?  I agree that the area where the cable meets the rotor mast looks odd.  I don't think the pic is fake, though because they have the negatives at the Museum.  I'll have to check the full res image when I get home.  Anyway, it is an interesting pic, I think.  Anybody know the gross weight of a empty Bravo?

      Ray
 

Grandad,

  Thanks, I should have known that!

     Ray
 

I figured someone would want to know what the "Jesus Nut" was.  The correct term is the main rotor retaining nut, but basically if it comes off in flight your going to see your maker!  Here is a pic of one on a B model rotorhead (red arrow).  note the eye in the top for attaching cables and the like.

[img]http://

Here;s a closeup of the pic I posted before showing the attachment point:

I guess I had better repost the pic for comparison:

[img]http://

You figured right Ray (though i have to confess, even with my nut allergy, i have heard of the Jesus nut and know how important it was) i havnt seen a detailed pic before so thanks for the post .

Andy.

Ray,

it's nice to see some images of often neglected details of Huey! Way to go :) But, to keep in spirit with the unusual...

First a couple of pics of HA(L)-3 UH-1M Seawolf 314 Army serial No. 65-09476 in 1971. It was armed with two M158 seven shot rocket launchers, a M2HB .50 Cal MG in the right door and a minigun in the left door. Also note the smilies on stores mount dust covers :)

Another shot of a HA(L)-3 Huey with ''Nighthawk'' Starlight Scope/Xenon searchlight rig:

Here's an interesting Army UH-1C in service with 116th AHC in 1968. It was fitted as a ''Smoke Ship''. Note the oil bladder under the seats and a door mounted minigun for heavy fire suppression-neccessary when flying those dangerous low & slow Smokey missions.

The last two photos show a USAF UH-1N of the 20th SOS ''Green Hornets'' in 1971. I know those M93 door mounted minis were standard on USAF gunship Hueys in Vietnam, but what is perhaps more interesting is the backup/personal weapons displayed in front of the UH-1N. Note the weapon to the left-its a XM174 40mm automatic grenade launcher carried by some gunners for backup if the minigun jammed. XM174s saw limited use during Vietnam war and were most commonly used by the USAF airbase security units.

Note the armored plate in the chin bubble of this 20th SOS UH-1N:

I did come across some reference claiming that 20th SOS UH-1N gunships were often equiped with a M93 door mounted minigun subsystem in one door and a XM94 M129 40mm automatic grenade launcher subsystem in the other. Now, all photos of 20th SOS UH-1N gunships I've seen only show M93 in both doors-does anybody have any images of XM94 armed 20th SOS UH-1Ns?

Marko 

Marko,

  Good stuff!  Where'd you find the 20th SOS UH-1N pics? 65-09476 started life as a UH-1C in 1966 and served in the states (Dugway, Ft. Sill, Ft. Ord, and Ft. Belvoir) before serving in Vietnam with the 336th AHC from March 69-March of 70.  She finished her VN duty with 3rd Squadron HA(L)-3.  I have come to the conclusion that the minigun/50cal setup with M158 rocket pods was normal in HA(L)-3.  However, it is unusual relative to Army Hueys.

      Ray

WHOOOAH!!!!  So is it confirmed that UH-1Ns did see service with the 20th SOS in Vietnam. I had yet to see any confirmation of this, just vague mentions on the 20th replacing their Fs with Ns and one picture of a UH-1N sitting in revetment. If this is a confirmation, let me know, because that means I need to get my hands on a 1/72 scale model, and more research for markings.

that first picture of the Sealwolves bird, can't get past how much the blades are flexing.

Ray,

I found the 20th SOS UH-1N pics a couple of Years ago on the net-at that time there was a 20th SOS home page (Vietnam era, not pos-Vietnam 20th SOS). Unfortunately that site is gone :( There are a couple of good images of 20th SOS UH-1Ns in Squadron/Signal UH-1 Huey Gunships Walk Around, but that's about it! But, there is hope-in September Wayne Mutza will publish The History of 20th SOS Green Hornets (Schiffer books) so we can hope for some cool pics of Vietnam UH-1Ns.

Yes, 20th SOS started replacing UH-1F/P models with UH-1N around November 1970 and would fully replace UH-1F/P with UH-1N in 1971.

Ray, though some HA(L)-3 birds sported both, the door mounted .50 cal and minigun, it was more common for their UH-1s to have M21 subsystem and door mounted M60 on the left side and a ''heavy'' door gun/M158 on the right-lead bird would usually have the .50 cal and trail bird would have the mini mounted in the right door.

Marko 

I'll be looking for that book. I just went looking for a UH-1N kit. Are people nuts or what? Ebay postings had the Italeri kit from $19 and up. Some people straight out ask for $20 just for the shipping. I get alot of things through Ebay, but that's just sick. It's not even about getting bargains anymore, now it's hope you can find something without getting ripped off. I sell things on Ebay once in a while. sure, make money, but to straight up hijack people? whatever!!!

Leadfoot. Drop me a line. Off board.

I know this isn't exactly what is being covered here but, for you "detail nuts", I thought you might like this. Check out the videos, too.

Not all Hueys but interesting anyway. 

Randie,

  That's a great site.  I found it a while back and couldn't believe how many detailed M134 pics they had.  Thanks for posting it!

              Ray