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red tails movie trailer

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  • Member since
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  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, July 30, 2011 4:14 PM

Kinda like 'Memphis Belle'...not so historically accurate regarding the main characters, but acceptably accurate (mostly) as an overall representation...

"Not so historically accurate"?  That's putting it lightly, pard Wink... Memphis Belle, IMHO, was a turkey... Loved the eye-candy and aerial photography (the "battle damage" on the aircraft using reflective tape was a good idea), but the characters were so hokey (I know they were composites) and the story of the Belle's 25th mission so far from the truth that is was, for me, almost unwatchable...  Outside the uniforms and flight gear, and it seemed as if the directtor and writers wanted everything that ever happened to every 8th AF bomber crewman during 1943 happened to the 91st on one mission and most of it in one aircraft... (Although, Billy Zane's period moustache was quite good.)

I talked with Bob Morgan (The Belle's pilot) back in '99 about it down in Midland and his advice was, "If you want to know how it was, watch 12 O'Clock High. If you want to know how it wasn't, watch Memphis Belle."...

 

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Saturday, July 30, 2011 4:17 PM

And Cuba Gooding Jr returns to play a Tuskeegee Airman like he did in the Tuskeegee Airmen.

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
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  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, July 30, 2011 4:47 PM

Yeah, he's old enough to play Colonel Davis, now, lol...

  • Member since
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  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:41 PM

Hans von Hammer

Yeah, he's old enough to play Colonel Davis, now, lol...

Too bad Samuel Jackson and Lawrence Fishburn didn't return they were badass in their roles in Tuskeegee Airmen

 

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
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  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, July 30, 2011 6:06 PM

I don't remember Jackson in that movie...  Which character did he play?

At least they didn't call back Malcolm Jamal Warner.. He can't fit IN a Mustang, lol..

  • Member since
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  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Saturday, July 30, 2011 7:39 PM

Hans von Hammer

I don't remember Jackson in that movie...  Which character did he play?

At least they didn't call back Malcolm Jamal Warner.. He can't fit IN a Mustang, lol..

I do seem to recall with Malcolm he is a pretty muscular guy these days.

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
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  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Saturday, July 30, 2011 8:58 PM

Hans von Hammer

it seemed as if the directtor and writers wanted everything that ever happened to every 8th AF bomber crewman during 1943 happened to the 91st on one mission and most of it in one aircraft 

That's exactly what they where going for.  After they read what really happened on the Belle's last mission, they put together actual damage from multiple aircaft and made the fictional Belle receive it all.  At least they made so it could keep flying.  SInce they now damaged the aircraft (which in real life the mission was a milk run, no damage), they changed the target, and since they changed the target, the producers didn't want to use the real names any more, so they changed the names as well.  About the only thing they got right was the name of the base they took off from and the date.

  

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Canada / Czech Republic
Posted by upnorth on Sunday, July 31, 2011 5:38 AM

It looks like this one might have something to it.

Hard to judge from a trailer released half a year ahead of the premier.

They've plenty of time to smooth out the CGI a bit more. It does look a bit cartoonish to me in the trainer and I'm not convinced of some of the manouvers I saw the planes carrying out in some scenes.

Like I said, plenty of time to smooth out rough edges and cut a bit here and there.

 

I'll probably take a look at it. I'm by no means any sort of WWII expert so I'll take it for entertainment primarily.

  • Member since
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  • From: Wayfar, Tatooine
Posted by BerlinCreation on Sunday, July 31, 2011 7:10 AM

Hans von Hammer
"Not so historically accurate"?  That's putting it lightly, pard Wink... Memphis Belle, IMHO, was a turkey... Loved the eye-candy and aerial photography (the "battle damage" on the aircraft using reflective tape was a good idea), but the characters were so hokey (I know they were composites) and the story of the Belle's 25th mission so far from the truth that is was, for me, almost unwatchable...  Outside the uniforms and flight gear, and it seemed as if the directtor and writers wanted everything that ever happened to every 8th AF bomber crewman during 1943 happened to the 91st on one mission and most of it in one aircraft... (Although, Billy Zane's period moustache was quite good.)

I talked with Bob Morgan (The Belle's pilot) back in '99 about it down in Midland and his advice was, "If you want to know how it was, watch 12 O'Clock High. If you want to know how it wasn't, watch Memphis Belle."..

Well, I put it lightly because I know this place is high on PC-osity... ya gotta tread much more carefully on the FSM forums than many others.

Anyhoo, Bob said pretty much the same to me the few times we talked, and there have been other bomber guys who more or less echoed him.

'Memphis Belle' was indeed a 'turkey' as you put it, in regards to the story it attempted to tell. And, yeah, they crammed a bit too much action into that one op, but if you forget that the aircraft is named Memphis Belle, then you have a reasonably good composite of the European air war from an AAF bomber crew's perspective. Hokey and exaggerated as some of the characters may have seemed, guys like those portrayed in the film *did* exist... and I have talked to a number of them, and to a number of their comrades.

'Memphis Belle' failed miserably in telling the story of the real 'Belle'... but it succeeded in a number of other ways and is certainly more than watchable if you're able to keep that in mind.

 

Hans von Hammer
Lucas got all the weapons right in Star Wars, why not this movie?

You mean that Imperial Stormtroopers didn't have Lewis Guns and the Corellians didn't really carry broom-handle Mausers a "long time ago in a galaxy far, far away"?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/Heroshots/Heroshots%20Movies/Stormtroopers-Lewisgun.jpg?t=1312059124

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/Heroshots/Heroshots%20Movies/SoloMauser.jpg?t=1312059212

I don't see a Lewis and a Mauser... I see a T-21 and a modified DL-44... *shrug* :P

 

Fade to Black...

------------------------------------------------

Steve O. Reno

Formerly Blackwolf3945

Seeking Curtiss-Wright photos, especially the P-40 & C-46...

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Sunday, July 31, 2011 11:34 AM

Well, I put it lightly because I know this place is high on PC-osity... ya gotta tread much more carefully on the FSM forums than many others.

Anyhoo, Bob said pretty much the same to me the few times we talked, and there have been other bomber guys who more or less echoed him.

'Memphis Belle' was indeed a 'turkey' as you put it, in regards to the story it attempted to tell. And, yeah, they crammed a bit too much action into that one op, but if you forget that the aircraft is named Memphis Belle, then you have a reasonably good composite of the European air war from an AAF bomber crew's perspective. Hokey and exaggerated as some of the characters may have seemed, guys like those portrayed in the film *did* exist... and I have talked to a number of them, and to a number of their comrades.

'Memphis Belle' failed miserably in telling the story of the real 'Belle'... but it succeeded in a number of other ways and is certainly more than watchable if you're able to keep that in mind.

Like I said, it was almost unwatchable... I've actually watched it more times than I can recall, each time finding some little tid-bit I liked, and hadn't noticed before (I never counted things like Buchon's, "Cheyenne tails", or faired-over chin-turrets and cheek windows)... Especially good was the part when John Lithgow's character (LTC Derringer) is reading the letters from the dead airmen's families that COL Harriman gave him, voicing over the gun-camera and mission camera footage... That really socked home some of the things the movie was after... It was a rather powerful scene..

Some of the other things I noticed though, but are more like nit-picks than problems:

The B-17 that bellied-in in the beginning had it's props "replaced" after it came to a stop. Initially, when it hit, a couple blades went flying off, but the wide shot from the side, just before it explodes, the blades are there. It also "changed noses".. It had nose-art when it came in, but it was gone in the wide-shot.

Danny, veteran with 24 missions behind him was a T-3 (equal to a Staff Sergeant), but that Cherry radio operator from "Mother and Country" was a Master Sergeant?  Highly doubtful... Both his rank and age don't add up...

The P-51Ds were a little "early" for the date of the mission..  By about a year...

Val invented CPR...

One of the real B-17s' pilots is wearing a modern Telex headset w/ boom-mic druing take-off.

They got to the "Rally Point" before the bomb run.. Shoulda been the, IP- "Initial Point"... You only head for the Rally-point AFTER the bomb drop...

The Belle's ball turret was intact and postioned for landing at the end of the film.

Can't re-load the B-17's tailgun ammo cans in-flight.. They can only be loaded from outside the aircraft...So Clay's excuse to allow Luke back there wouldn't happen.

Couple that REALLY bugged me though..

The crew constantly putting on and taking off O-masks at altitude (actually bugs me in a LOT of movies. Top Gun was one like that, and another film that featured "Rascal", Courage Under Fire, LTC Searling's and crew ICS converstaions were in the radio recordings from the tank battle... Wouldn't happen, as the ICS and radio can't be used at the same time. You have to move the switch on the CVC helmet to the radio position, and then push it backwards to transmit)... Also the total lack of ICS dicispline and constant "chit-chat" over it in the plane... (I know, the actors' faces gotta be seen, and the movie would be pretty boring at times if the ICS was used properly... Still...)

There are more, but that'll do for now, lol... I don't wanna beat a dead horse...

It's great that you knew Bob Morgan.. I first met him at Midland in '97, and we managed to link up again in 98, at the American Combat Airmen's Hall of Fame induction, and again in 99...  Been planning a model of Dauntless Dotty  to go along with the Belle...  Kinda sad that nobody knows about his tour in B-29s.  Revell once had a kit of "Dotty", but it was 1/144 or maybe it was just a "Box Scale" kit, but I didn't do that scale, so it was passed on..

 

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, July 31, 2011 3:07 PM

Hey now Hans, somebody knows about Col Morgan and Dauntless Dotty. My 1/48 B-29 will be built in those markings (courtesy of Aeromaster) when I have the room to display it. I kinda like the fact here was a guy out on his second combat tour when leading the way on the other side of the world. Speaks volumes about the man. Everybody knows the Belle, but Dotty...

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Sunday, July 31, 2011 4:16 PM

Great minds think alike, Stik.. IIRC, one of the Belle's gunners went on to B-29s as well (I'm thinking it was SGT Quinlan, the tail-gunner, but I could be wrong), and flew with COL Morgan...

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Sunday, July 31, 2011 4:50 PM

I think the bombardier and/or navigator went with him as well as the tail gunner.

  

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Monday, August 1, 2011 5:09 AM

Couple quick nits from the trailer:

M-44 goggles... Not available at that time, since they weren't fielded to the USAAF until late 1944... They're still current issue, BTW... I must have 5 or 6 sets of 'em...

 RAF Mk VII goggles... This one's a "possible", though.. I dunno how close they were to any RAF units in the MTO to make a "trade", but were pretty common among American pilots stationed in England... The ANH-14 flight helmet is a repro.. The goggle-loops were leather, these appear to be OD web.

  • Member since
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  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Monday, August 1, 2011 8:59 AM

Since those are P-40 canopies, which means the 99th was still in North Africa, I could see them using the RAF goggles, has the British where stationed there as well. So a trade could've been made.

Of course that all boils down to how close the movie follows the actual history of the airmen.

  

  • Member since
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  • From: Nebraska, USA
Posted by CallSignOWL on Monday, August 1, 2011 9:27 AM

you guys do realize this is a 2 hour movie and not a miniseries, right? From that fact it is obvious that things will have to be glossed over or skipped entirely in order to avoid a 5 hour production. Dont get too caught up about that....  Confused

------------------------

Now that I'm here, where am I??

  • Member since
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  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Monday, August 1, 2011 9:50 AM

We need to send this thread to LucasFilms - PLENTY of time for them to fix all their little oopsies before the premier Devil

On a serious note, guys - at least he's trying to stick to history with this one, unlike the earlier efforts. I think this is going to be a good one regardless of all the little goofs that all of us know darn good and well are going to be in it.

And we all know that once the CG boys get rolling, there's little to stop them from going overboard ... one B-17 exploding in a ball of flames? Heck, why not make it 2, 3, 10? And we can have those P-51Ds (never mind that they should be an earlier model) taking out multiple Me-262s no problemo, boss, just tell us how many fireballs you need per movie frame ...

As a P.S. to Hans von Hammer and the other Memphis Belle afficianados, of which I am one as well - if you want a stimulating exercise one evening, watch the WW II War Office film, The Memphis Belle: A Story of a Flying Fortress, then watch Memphis Belle.

You will notice an astonishing number of shots and sequences from the War Office film that are repeated in the Hollywood film - too many to list, really, some of them almost frame-for-frame. Coincidence? Nope! Director of the WW II film - William Wyler. Producer of the 1990 film - Catherine Wyler ... his daughter. Yep, she cared enough to borrow from the very best! Big Smile

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Monday, August 1, 2011 1:18 PM

CallSignOWL

you guys do realize this is a 2 hour movie and not a miniseries, right? From that fact it is obvious that things will have to be glossed over or skipped entirely in order to avoid a 5 hour production. Dont get too caught up about that....  Confused

Hopefully they do make a miniseries on the air war, in the same style of Band of Brothers.

  

  • Member since
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  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, August 1, 2011 1:30 PM

How do these shots from the old HBO film compare?

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Monday, August 1, 2011 4:22 PM

stikpusher

How do these shots from the old HBO film compare?

http://www.videodetective.com/photos/145/006113_7.jpg

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/020206/161643__airmen_l.jpg

 

Top one's ok...Not sure oif the nomencalture, it's a variation of the B-5, I think.. Can't tell if there're pockets for the Gosport tube.... The helmets and goggles are correct for cadets in Primary, since there were no radios or ICS in 'em... Some PTs had Gosport tubes, but not the Stearman...

The helmet in the bottom photo is ok, for a repro AN-H-16, except for the chin-strap and buckle.. Also appears to be missing the snaps for the O-mask straps.. It looks more like an A-11 crossed with a '16, actually.. But there's no fleece visible, which is why I'm calling a repro '16... I'd really like to look it over... "Hollywood" repros are usually pretty fair-quality, but never meant to fool anyone who seriously collects them, (unlike a number of Pakisatani manufacturers who even fake the inside labels)...

The M-44 goggles are a no-go.  But they do a good job pretending to be B-8 goggles...

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Monday, August 1, 2011 4:26 PM

As a P.S. to Hans von Hammer and the other Memphis Belle afficianados, of which I am one as well - if you want a stimulating exercise one evening, watch the WW II War Office film, The Memphis Belle: A Story of a Flying Fortress, then watch Memphis Belle.

You will notice an astonishing number of shots and sequences from the War Office film that are repeated in the Hollywood film - too many to list, really, some of them almost frame-for-frame. Coincidence? Nope! Director of the WW II film - William Wyler. Producer of the 1990 film - Catherine Wyler ... his daughter. Yep, she cared enough to borrow from the very best!

Yupper, caught that too... Had to pull out my copy of the War Department film to be sure, then Google the name, but while reading the credits of the movie (one of my quirks is reading the credits), I had a "wait a second... " moment...

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Jefferson City, MO
Posted by iraqiwildman on Monday, August 1, 2011 5:00 PM

I wonder if this movie will continue the myth that these fighters never lost a bomber they were escorting?

Tim Wilding

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Nebraska, USA
Posted by CallSignOWL on Monday, August 1, 2011 5:32 PM

Hans von Hammer

 

 

 

Top one's ok...Not sure oif the nomencalture, it's a variation of the B-5, I think.. Can't tell if there're pockets for the Gosport tube.... The helmets and goggles are correct for cadets in Primary, since there were no radios or ICS in 'em... Some PTs had Gosport tubes, but not the Stearman...

The helmet in the bottom photo is ok, for a repro AN-H-16, except for the chin-strap and buckle.. Also appears to be missing the snaps for the O-mask straps.. It looks more like an A-11 crossed with a '16, actually.. But there's no fleece visible, which is why I'm calling a repro '16... I'd really like to look it over... "Hollywood" repros are usually pretty fair-quality, but never meant to fool anyone who seriously collects them, (unlike a number of Pakisatani manufacturers who even fake the inside labels)...

The M-44 goggles are a no-go.  But they do a good job pretending to be B-8 goggles...

 

heh, You're soundin' a bit like Gaston there, Hammer....Whistling

------------------------

Now that I'm here, where am I??

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Monday, August 1, 2011 6:45 PM

Wink

Were this a WW2 flight-gear collector's forum, I'd agree... 

 

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Monday, August 1, 2011 7:00 PM

stikpusher

How do these shots from the old HBO film compare?

http://www.videodetective.com/photos/145/006113_7.jpg

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/020206/161643__airmen_l.jpg

 

Stik is the bottom image of Lawrence Fishburn from the new Tuskeegee Airmen that is coming out. And BTW Hans those goggles in the bottom pic look like a close resemblance to the Army Sun Wind Dust goggles from the past 20-30 years

 

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, August 1, 2011 7:26 PM

Looking on IMDB and Wiki, Lawrence Fishburne is not listed as part of the cast on the new film.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Monday, August 1, 2011 7:38 PM

Hans those goggles in the bottom pic look like a close resemblance to the Army Sun Wind Dust goggles from the past 20-30 years

That's cuz they are, rather than the B-8 goggles they're "portraying"... You'd have to look at the top part of the rubber to tell which was which, where the "B8" info is stamped in the frame.. The only real difference between them and the B-8 is the lens color-choices and the materials now used to make the lenses...

The B-8s were for issue to aviators and M44s were for ground troops (M44 is still the current nomenclature of the Sun, Wind, Dust goggles), but the B8s included a red lens as well as the smoke and clear ones... Aircrews who were scheduled to be flying at night would use the red lens for about two hours prior to sundown, in order to have their night-vison at it's peak as early as possible...  And to protect their eyes from the clown with the flashlight that pops up onto the wing, shines it in your face and chirps, "Give 'em hell for me, Sir!"

Wink

  • Member since
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  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Tuesday, August 2, 2011 7:25 AM

Yeah, I am hoping *fingers crossed* that Red Tails doesn't fall into the trap that The Tuskegee Airmen did with that "never lost a bomber" line. Although that has received enough publicity in the last decade that one would think the producers would know it was bunk ... still, this is Hollyweird ...

  • Member since
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  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, August 2, 2011 11:55 AM

Technically, the claim was "never lost a bomber to enemy fighters"...

  • Member since
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  • From: hamburg michigan
Posted by fermis on Wednesday, August 3, 2011 11:41 AM

The canopies on the P-40s look to be about 2.7mm too wide, when viewed from above. This movie is unwatchable.

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